UC a breech? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OK, so here's the deal: my (very nice, kind, understanding) mw, when I told her we've decided on home for this baby told me if I wanted to I could keep coming in for appts just in case I needed to go to the hosp for some reason. OK, great. So I went in yesterday after a 4 week hiatus. Everything's great, I feel great, baby's all over the place day and night however as the mw was feeling around my belly she stops and says "I just want to see something real quick". She did a [literally] 30-second u/s and guess what? Baby's head is right up under my ribs. I'm 34 weeks. I've got the spinning babies stuff bookmarked and the mw gave me a bunch of tips as well but does anyone have experience birthing a breech at home? Somewhere in my head I know that there's plenty of time for it to turn, right up to and including labor, but I'm just looking for someone, anyone to give me a virtual slap and say "pull yourself together! you can do this!" without laying all the scary c/s s*** on the table. I was in tears on and off the rest of the day yesterday, psychically trying to explain to this little one that if there's a good reason it's in the position it's in, fine, but head-down would be much less stressful on both of us.

And please, no flaming -- yes, I know if I had just not gone to the stupid appt it wouldn't even be an issue because I wouldn't know about it but that ship has sailed, I did go, and now I'm battling all sorts of doubts about myself and our plans for a nice peaceful birth. S***far, I'm off to go get weepy again. : My poor toddler is drinking my pregnancy tea and looking a little wary of mama right now. Have to rescue my cup. tia,

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#2 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 12:35 PM
 
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I don't remember how long mine stayed breech last time, but it did flip. I was totally at peace with going breech at home alone. Mamaintheforest had a breech too that flipped right before labor. Neither of us did anything to turn the babies. Laura Shanely delivered a breech UC.
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#3 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 12:36 PM
 
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First- it's still early. Really.

Next- I would never schedule a c/s for a breech as they can turn even in labor. I would feel very comfortable UCing a breech in most positions. Much more comfortable than in the hospital where they don't understand hands off the breech.

-Angela
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#4 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 01:51 PM
 
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laura shanley's stories? one of her babes was breech. my two UC babies weren't breech, but i imagine that if one had been, my story would be similar to hers.

you will be fine.
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#5 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ah, a quick thanks to you mamas who replied -- I have read Laura's stories [lots!] and they're usually so very inspiring but for some reason I feel totally deflated today. Thanks for talking me down off the figurative ledge, though. Today just happens to feel like one of those rare days when UCing is such a lonely path. Tomorrow will be... tomorrow.

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#6 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 02:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna View Post
First- it's still early. Really.

Next- I would never schedule a c/s for a breech as they can turn even in labor. I would feel very comfortable UCing a breech in most positions. Much more comfortable than in the hospital where they don't understand hands off the breech.

-Angela
:

A lot of midwives don't know how to do breech births, either, unfortunately, and you don't know what you're going to get until it's happening, as far as an attendant's knowledge and skill.

Jean Sutton's Optimal Foetal Positioning is also a good resource (google her name or Optimal Foetal Positioning to find it).
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#7 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 02:20 PM
 
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Although there is still PLENTY of time to turn, breech is just a variation of normal! You will know what to do.
Just for a little laugh, a friend of mine did a head stand in a pool the day before she went in to labor for her breech baby, and the baby flipped! If the baby needs to flip it will, if not, it won't. Don't sweat it!

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#8 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 02:30 PM
 
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Check out spinning babies for optimal fetal positioning if you want the baby to turn, but I would be comfortable UC'ing a full-term breech baby. Maybe not my preference, but I would be ok with it. I would not be comfortable breech birthing in a hospital except in extreme circumstances (that made hospital safer than home, which for me there are very few) with a very hands-off care provider very comfortable with vaginal breeches.
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#9 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 05:49 PM
 
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I know a few mamas have UCed breech babies. I know of one specifically, I don't think she posts here though, I'll see if I can rustle her up to come tell you about it.

Here's the link to her birth story~



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#10 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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Oh yes! My baby was breech throughout all of my pregnancy, and breech right up until just a couple of hours before labor began. I fully intended on birthing her UC, breech.

I felt very strongly that she was breech for a reason. I couldn't know the reason, but I knew that she knew her best position. I did nothing to alter that. I kept my body in good positions, and kept myself healthy, both physically and mentally, but I didn't do any of the things that midwives tell you to do to try to change her positioning.

She was born vertex, after about 1 1/2 hours of labor, 13 pounds, with a true & large knot in her cord, and wrapped around her neck very tightly. I am absolutely sure that forcing her to turn would have been dangerous to her and that she knew what she was doing by turning at the last minute.

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#11 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 06:48 PM
 
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hey, I just noticed you're in Michigan. Me too!

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#12 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 06:54 PM
 
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I would not do it.

Haven't I read people talking here at MDC about how midwives need to continue to have the rights to deliver breech babies, because it is a specialized skill, and if they do not keep doing it, that skill will be lost?

How then would it be safe to deliver a breech baby UC? I do not get it.

I think risks are real, and it's one thing to say "the baby will do what it needs to do" if we take the wide view, the highest truth if you will, that any outcome is the 'right' outcome for ours and our baby's karma. However, if we have investment in the outcome, we need to look at the real risk/benefit analysis. Which to me, tips over the edge in UCing a breech.
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#13 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 06:57 PM
 
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It's early. Mine don't flip to vertex until 36-39weeks.

I don't know what I'd do in your situation, other then labor awhile and see what my intuition (and other senses, and husband) was leading me to do.

Spinning babies has been down for 3-4 days, they keep making promises though!

Carrie, The Birthteacher CCE and Doula, real mom to five; and womb-mom to G. born at 23w by emergency C. 12/09
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#14 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 07:00 PM
 
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It's back up (spinning babies) but many links don't work and the formatting is wiggy.

Carrie, The Birthteacher CCE and Doula, real mom to five; and womb-mom to G. born at 23w by emergency C. 12/09
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#15 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 07:00 PM
 
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Haven't I read people talking here at MDC about how midwives need to continue to have the rights to deliver breech babies, because it is a specialized skill, and if they do not keep doing it, that skill will be lost?

Well, I doubt you've read that here on the uc board. I don't think what births midwives have the "right" to attend comes up in conversation much.

I think it's a totally personal decision. As I said, I know of mamas who have birthed unassisted breech, so maybe they can shed some light on what skills are required.

I don't know if I would intentionally go unassisted if I knew I were having a breech baby. I might seek out someone who had attended breeches before. Or I might just pick her brain about what to do in any given scenario. Though that's the cool thing about MDC, because we can do that here. Lots of midwives and others to bounce ideas off of.

The truth is I probably wouldn't KNOW my baby was breech because I don't do any prenatal fiddling, so it would be a moot point.

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#16 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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I would not do it.

Haven't I read people talking here at MDC about how midwives need to continue to have the rights to deliver breech babies, because it is a specialized skill, and if they do not keep doing it, that skill will be lost?

How then would it be safe to deliver a breech baby UC? I do not get it.
The skill in a breech is the wisdom to DO NOTHING. Find an MD who can stand to do nothing. It's often hard to even find a midwife willing to do nothing.

Midwives who attend breech will tell you the safest way is to stay hands off.

-Angela
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#17 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mama in the forest View Post
I felt very strongly that she was breech for a reason. I couldn't know the reason, but I knew that she knew her best position. I did nothing to alter that. I kept my body in good positions, and kept myself healthy, both physically and mentally, but I didn't do any of the things that midwives tell you to do to try to change her positioning.
Yes, that's what my gut is telling me -- if she's head-up, it's for a very good reason. Or maybe the view is more interesting for the time being.

Oh, and we live by Lake Michigan, but not in Michigan unfortunately. We're down in Chicago [it's a big lake! ] By the by, (OT), you have such a beautiful tribe of kids!

Quote:
I know a few mamas have UCed breech babies. I know of one specifically, I don't think she posts here though, I'll see if I can rustle her up to come tell you about it.

Here's the link to her birth story~
Thanks for the link to her story, Kat. That helps.

Quote:
I would not do it.

Haven't I read people talking here at MDC about how midwives need to continue to have the rights to deliver breech babies, because it is a specialized skill, and if they do not keep doing it, that skill will be lost?

How then would it be safe to deliver a breech baby UC? I do not get it.

I think risks are real, and it's one thing to say "the baby will do what it needs to do" if we take the wide view, the highest truth if you will, that any outcome is the 'right' outcome for ours and our baby's karma. However, if we have investment in the outcome, we need to look at the real risk/benefit analysis. Which to me, tips over the edge in UCing a breech.
I certainly appreciate your honesty. It might not be the most popular reply, but I wasn't looking to get sunshine blown up my bum by everyone. Seriously, though, dissenting opinions welcome.

Thanks everyone -- off to make dinner.

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#18 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 07:31 PM
 
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If I ever had a breech baby, I wouldn't consider anything other than UC. Well, maybe I'd consider having a HB MW who knew what she was doing, but no way in H@#$% would I step foot anywhere near an OB or a hospital if I knew I was having a breech baby!

Everything I've read about breech birth states that you just let the babe come on its own, and grab him/her yourself when the baby is partway out. That the techniques birth professionals use ends up being exactly the same angles that a mama would do birthing on her own. Our bodies really ARE designed perfectly for this!

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#19 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 07:39 PM
 
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Hi. Kat asked me to stop by. I just experienced this myself. Just a few weeks before my son was born he was head down. He flipped and was born breech. We didn't know for sure he was breech until I was pushing. Everything went really well, no worries. He was butt first, not footling. Do you know how the babies feet are? I needed help from my husband to stretch me over and around his butt, other than that there was no interference. My husband held his body gently, not moving or turning him. Once his butt, legs and chest were out my pushing instinct lessened quite a bit. It took some good hard pushes on my end, and then out came his head. I'm not quite sure which specifics to share. I can answer any questions for you if you'd like. He was healthy and so was I. Recovery was the hardest with his birth. I was good and sore, but aren't we always after birth?

The most important things I would know about for a breech birth are:
*support the baby's body but do NOT move, pull or rotate him/her!
*birth in the hands and knees position
*work hard at pushing, it's best for baby for this stage to not be prolonged
*do not panic! it is important (as always in birth) to stay calm and as relaxed as possible

Please feel free to ask me anything!

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#20 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much for posting Mandy! The feet were right around navel level with the bum near ovary level and the head up by my ribs -- so I'm assuming in a sitting position? If I think of any specific questions, I'll definitely post. This is such an active baby compared to my ds that I'll just have to accept that she's coming out the way she's meant to -- head up, head down, bum first -- whatever. Again, thanks so much for posting and "welcome".

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#21 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 08:08 PM
 
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We planned a UC breech birth with my last baby.
I refused the dangerous version to try and turn her.
I felt she was in this position for a reason and trusted things would be as they should be. I did try some non-evasive things like swimming, tilt board, things like that. I also did a chiropractice technique called *The Webster Technique* which I think helped a lot. It was just relaxing of a band of muscles low down that might have been keeping baby from turning.

I won't say the decision to birth uc breech didn't bring some fears from time to time, but at the same time I was totally at peace.
I even called the Farm in TN and talked to the mws there for opinions and was basically told (after hearing of my other births--baby sizes and such) that the baby should just fall out. lol!!!! Not to worry. Though of course they had to add the disclaimer that it shouldn't be attempted alone. hehehe

My personal opinion is that it is very early still for you. There is plenty of time and you can do some basic things to encourage the baby to turn. I always told my baby that I trusted her and to pick the best position for her birth as I didn't want her to turn if it were to cause dangers for her, but that if it was okay, that head down would be preferred if possible.

She did turn about two weeks before she was born (the day the mw dropped me from her care). This baby didn't want her there apparently (and my heart's desire was to birth uc anyway). Not trusting myself I still believed she was breech even in labor, so we got a huge surprise when she presented head first. lol!

~A
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#22 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 08:36 PM
 
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Here are some resources that might help you.
Breech Babies is a mom run Canadian website. It's focus is breech is a variation of normal.
The midwifery archives has a nice discussion of vaginal breech births. I found the comparison between the assumptions and SOPs between the UK and US particularly enlightening.

HTH,
BV

ETA: Oops! This is the correct URL for the first website I mentioned.
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#23 of 42 Old 06-13-2007, 11:12 PM
 
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Intellectually speaking, I think I'd have a breech UC. I've never been in that situation though, so I guess I can't say for sure. I'd definitely have a homebirth, but I also know a great midwife who's experienced with breech birth. I don't know if I'd have her on call in case the baby didn't turn, or if I'd feel comfortable with UC. I think I'd UC, but it's hard to say not being in the situation myself.

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#24 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 10:44 AM
 
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Oh, and we live by Lake Michigan, but not in Michigan unfortunately. We're down in Chicago [it's a big lake! ] By the by, (OT), you have such a beautiful tribe of kids!
Thank you :

You know, I know you were upset about this & I don't mean to make light of it, but I honestly think this is a non issue at this point. Really! You're only 34 weeks and your baby is moving all the time. There is no reason to think that things will be the same at 40 weeks or beyond.

I don't know your midwife, but many birth professionals make a big deal out of breech at this point when it's not necessary. There is plenty of time for your baby to turn, but even if it doesn't, breech is a natural variation of normal.

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#25 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 11:10 AM
 
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If I knew baby was breech, I wouldn't do it any other way than UC.

I love the breech babies website btw.
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#26 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 12:11 PM
 
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I would do nothing other than UC for a breech baby if given another chance.

My first two were frank breech at what they said was 36 weeks. The first was scheduled c/s at what they said was 38+5 weeks after telling me that my baby could die if I went into labour and cited the conclusion of a study done in our province just a few years earlier that was stopped because of the high rate of vaginally birthed breech babies dying. He was ripped from my womb, obviously no more mature than 34 weeks and I didn't sleep for the following six months as he nursed voraciously every hour and suddenly stopped breathing on a regular basis. Then when ds2 was breech at the same time, it was an automatic schedule, but I knew more closely the date of conception and he was born at 39 weeks and was breathing and nursing more like other newbies. I had a traumatic, unsuccessful, incompetently executed ECV that turned to an INTERNAL cv without my permission and I believe that both ds2 and I suffered from post-traumatic stress (disorder for me, just stress for him, I think).

THEN, I finally found the study that was used to trick me into surgery the first time and discovered that the study purpose was to determine the viability of vaginal birth for premature and genetically compromised breech babies, many of whom were birthed through induction. Many of them died, yes (ummm... I would've expected that outcome...), but clearly, this study wasn't relevant to us at all. The OB flat out lied or didn't read the study except a few lines and thereby showed medical negligence of, imo, a criminal nature.

SOOOOO, I would NEVER NEVER NEVER (again) opt for a hospital birth for breech. NEVER. Our family has suffered immensely because of the lies and assaults we endured. Never again. My only caveat would be if I truly believed that I and/or our baby were going to die otherwise.

Well, I've been absent for 8 months, and during that time, it turns out that I have completely transformed. You are all precious. Thank you for being here and sharing your lives. You are truly a gift. namaste.gif Jan. 23, 2012

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#27 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 01:45 PM
 
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I am currently in the situation of having a breech. My twins were breech/vertex at the last ultrasound. I am actively trying to turn them to vertex vertex or at LEAST breech breech since their current configuration can cause chin lock and I'm not willing to attempt that at home unassisted. If they are b/b, b/t,v/b or v/t I will definately UC. If I get a footling for the first baby I will probally transfer as well.

For a singleton I'd feel safe delivering a B at home as long as they're not kneeling or footling. I'd also want to make sure the baby doesn't have hydrocephaly because they can get stuck.

I think in the right circumstances Breech birth is perfectly safe as long as you just let the birth happen. As far as I've read the protocol is do nothing until the body is out, then keep the body warm, pull a loop cord down so there is slack and push the head out as fast as possible. No pulling on the baby and just stay calm and relaxed. Sounds easy peasy to me and alot safer then a hosptial extraction (where they grab the head by forcepts and yank them out... or section you)

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#28 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 01:52 PM
 
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If I knew baby was breech, I wouldn't do it any other way than UC.
Ditto here! For me it is the ONLY safe way to deliver a breech baby. ~A
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#29 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks so much for all the insight and wisdom! Feeling much more peaceful today and after talking with dh and this bouncing baby, we're going to just go with the flow. I think I just got way too freaked out when the mw mentioned a c/s -- in fact what went thru my head was no f-ing way and I barely heard the rest of what she was saying. They do have experience catching breech babes but alarm bells went off in my head at the phrase "we'll let you have a trial...". Um, no, you're either down with me doing this or you're not. And if it's a "trial" I'm not interested in being in labor while seeing people in my peripheral vision with forceps and other lovely things at the ready "just in case". So home it is. Thanks again -- I truly appreciate all the replies.

Jfly-by-nursing1.gif, partner-in-crime to Dfamilybed2.gif, mama to run.gif4, including our brand new rainbow1284.gifbaby.gifmissing my 7-wk-er

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#30 of 42 Old 06-14-2007, 03:29 PM
 
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I didn't UC my breech baby, but I think I could have. The midwives (Ina May and Carol, at the Farm) didn't do anything life-saving; everything went just fine without much help. So yes, I think you certainly can do it, if you want to!

Of course, odds are that the baby will flip head-down before labor anyway. Good luck!

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