Honestly, What do you do? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 25 Old 11-13-2007, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm TTC and wanting to UC. I've never birthed before.

Here's the thing: I'm CLUELESS. I am absolutely sure I want to UC or have a midwife who's happy to stay in another room. But I've heard so many CPS horror stories, baby gets stuck horror stories, etc.

I don't expect bad things to happen. I already know I can figure out labor and birth via instinct. But I also don't expect that I'm immune to horror stories. It's the LAWS that get me.

I do not believe a child should be taken from his parents on a "UC accusation." I do believe that when that happens, God will have something to say to the offender(s). But, I know it happens.

When you want with all you have to UC, but don't want to become the next horror story, honestly What Do You Do?

Thanks for your help.
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#2 of 25 Old 11-13-2007, 05:59 PM
 
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Just don't share your birthing information with anyone. If you have to transfer and have cps called on you when you go home, don't let them in without a warrant and get a lawyer.

Why are you so worried about all the what-ifs? You should probably figure that one out as you plan your UC, deal with all the contingencies and then see how you feel then. You can't control every single factor in birth (or life) so you need to "plan" flexibility into your decisions. HTH.

Mom to DD ('06) and DS ('08)
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#3 of 25 Old 11-13-2007, 06:24 PM
 
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Just don't share your birthing information with anyone. If you have to transfer and have cps called on you when you go home, don't let them in without a warrant and get a lawyer.

Why are you so worried about all the what-ifs? You should probably figure that one out as you plan your UC, deal with all the contingencies and then see how you feel then. You can't control every single factor in birth (or life) so you need to "plan" flexibility into your decisions. HTH.
: Personally, I'm sick of being scared of everything all the time. I'm doing my thing & the world can kiss my tush. Whatever happens, I'll deal with. Until then I am going to just assume all is well...it is. The odds are astronomical that noone will call CPS.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#4 of 25 Old 11-14-2007, 12:18 AM
 
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Honestly, you get over your fear and accept whatever comes and deal with it when it does. You don't worry about it, b/c that makes it more likely to come true! (that was my mistake.)
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#5 of 25 Old 11-14-2007, 12:19 AM
 
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: Personally, I'm sick of being scared of everything all the time. I'm doing my thing & the world can kiss my tush. Whatever happens, I'll deal with. Until then I am going to just assume all is well...it is. The odds are astronomical that noone will call CPS.
: You rock, Marie!
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#6 of 25 Old 11-14-2007, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, so put my mind at ease here.

I've been thinking if I had a midwife, I wouldn't enjoy birthing. But if I had a midwife, I'd also get to KEEP my baby!

I take it I'm the only weirdo freaked about this? If so, I'll try to re-think it all. I never have been before, but I guess I could be wrong.

And thanks guys!
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#7 of 25 Old 11-14-2007, 03:42 PM
 
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Prayinfor12: I can relate to your fears. Although this will be my 3rd UC, I still have them, and still contemplate as to whether it might be "safer" (from a CPS/ legal standpoint) to just hire a midwife, even if I didn't call her for the birth. But really, how likely is it that anyone will call CPS on us? I mean, sure, we hear horror stories. But they aren't exactly common.

For me, I transfered after my first UC by ambulance to the hospital. Nobody called CPS (not to say I wasn't terrified for weeks!) and nobody freaked out. The pediatrician was a little rude, but in the long run, it was no big deal. I did have to talk to the hospital social worker because that's policy for anyone who comes in with little or no official prenatal care. She only wanted to make sure I wasn't being abused in any way, and that I would have enough help and support the first few weeks. (I did- family and the local AP group were totally there for me.)

A few weeks after my second UC, my oldest fell and broke her collarbone while playing with my husband. Again we called an ambulance. This time was worse because I was sick (mastitis and uterine infection), we'd just had Christmas, and we were in the process of moving. So the house was trashed. Again, it was fine. We were required to speak with a police officer, seperately (my husband and I) and told it sounded like we were great parents who were in a bad place right now, and we were reassured the *no report would be filed.*

Now, granted, the second example was not birth related, but I think that most of the time, even if someone calls CPS or social services, or you have to call an ambulance into your home, it works out okay. It might be stressful, but it works out. You are an informed, thoughtful mama. It shows.

Now, to tell myself that!

Laura, mama to J (15), N (12), E (9) , M (6), and our little caboose, R (3).
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#8 of 25 Old 11-14-2007, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Laura, the real-life examples are helpful. Thanks! I'm hoping for more. Hint hint wink wink, everybody!
Having real-life scenarios in my head will help get the "freaked-out" out.

And having to talk to an officer like that - sheesh. Like the day wasn't already stressful, eh?
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#9 of 25 Old 11-16-2007, 12:08 AM
 
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Ok, so put my mind at ease here.

I've been thinking if I had a midwife, I wouldn't enjoy birthing. But if I had a midwife, I'd also get to KEEP my baby!

I take it I'm the only weirdo freaked about this? If so, I'll try to re-think it all. I never have been before, but I guess I could be wrong.

And thanks guys!
No you're not the only one. First, I was involved with CPS. The ILs called, CPS and police gave us crap, we got more crapola at the hospital, the OB gave us more, the ped gave us more and questioned my mental state, but all worked out fine. Had a couple really stresful weeks/months... But we're fine, and I know my rights. So I'll be fine again, even if CPS comes again--which they won't, b/c no one who would call, will be told!
Also, I have thought, too, that if I had an mw, they'd be less likely to come at all. But that just isn't true. First of all, I'd be more likely to have a "complicated" and def. a hindered birth with an MW! No matter what I thought/felt about her... And also, in my case, the MW would be a CPM, which aren't really legal here... So if I said I had an mw, they'd want to know who, then we'd all get in trouble, etc. And if I didn't say, well that wouldn't be much better, although it would cover her butt. Anyway, I say all this to say that I, too, have had and sometimes still have these fears. I also have the example of what happened with DS to plague me... But I still always return to UP/UC as the best way to birth this babe. And I always will. Not only that, but when the time comes, I'll have an empowering unhindered birth with NO ONE involved that I don't want to be. I do know how you feel. But really, you'll be fine!
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#10 of 25 Old 11-16-2007, 01:05 AM
 
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I'm planning to UC with my first in April, but I'm not UPing. I've hired a midwife and admittedly, CPS was one of my concerns when I made the decision to do that. However, I don't think I'd hire a midwife if that were my only concern, because as mentioned, it's not a very likely situation.

Hiring a homebirth midwife might be a good option, and then you "oops" forget to call. This is what I've chosen to do. My top reasons are: DH's comfort, and as backup support for me. If I start to feel anything is wrong, or start to panic in any way, I want to have the right kind of medical support available -- I don't want the hospital to be the only place I can go. I might feel differently about that if I had any support in real life, but since that's not the case, I'm at least choosing a good back up. Also, I'm looking forward to having her come after the birth and check me for tears and give some breastfeeding guidance. Also again, if I did need to transfer, I like the idea of having her as an advocate because as much as I try, I'm not sure I could sufficiently prep DH, and I honestly would rather have him at my side and focusing than worrying hes making the right decisions for me at a stressful time.

I hope that make sense at all. I'm down with a bad cold and my brain is pretty fuzzy. Anyway, Welcome!

XM,: mama to ds (5/08), dd (9/10) and ds (6/12) ! whale.gif :C.H.S & M.

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#11 of 25 Old 11-16-2007, 01:20 AM
 
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Honestly the only reason why I didn't UC my last birth was simply because of this very fear. It's got to be irrational, just a a fear of death is...........because now I would give anythhing in the world to go back and NOT CALL THE MIDWIFE or ever have called her in the first place.
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#12 of 25 Old 11-16-2007, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mrs. Kennedy, You seem to have some experience here. Wish you didn't! So, when you're right in the thick of the CPS crapola, is the fear of actually getting in trouble / losing your baby a legitimate fear?

Xekomaya, I love the "forgot to call" idea. I need to find a midwife that won't be hacked off when I call afterward and say "hey, could you come check me?" I saw a CNM last week (first m/w visit) and it CONVINCED me I am NOT going CNM - too medical!

I do like the idea of having "official" prenatal records. That might ward off the biggest "trouble" if I was one of the lucky folk dealing with CPS. And too - the birth is the biggest deal to me anyway.

Keep talkin'. Y'all are helpin'!
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#13 of 25 Old 11-16-2007, 08:00 PM
 
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I actually just discovered I'm pregnant. Big surprise.

I always thought I would have one of those "hands off" midwives just to be safe from any laws or CPS.

Now that I'm actually pregnant, and everyday it sinks in more and more that yes, indeed, I will have a baby in 9 months ... the thought of anyone there besides myself and my S/O feels wrong, and just tenses me up like crazy.

I still have a lot to read and learn, but I'm probably going to have a UC. I don't want another person there. And I refuse to let the government or their laws force me into a birth I do not want, and may regret. For me the decision rests on the fact that I am more fearful of the birth, when I think of having other people present at it, than when I think about it being must myself.
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#14 of 25 Old 11-16-2007, 11:57 PM
 
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The next day after I had a UC, I decided to go to the emergency room to have a doctor look at a tear I received. I was concerned because it was a large tear and looked like it had gone through into my rectum. The doctor and nurses were surprisingly warm and friendly. A little weirded out but that's all.

However, because home birth is still looked at as an oddity, they called in a social worker. So right before I am to have a strange man look at my "who-who", in walks this social worker. She spends about two seconds on the fact that I had a unassisted home birth, but is intrigued as to how I could have received prenatal care. I tell her that I did it myself and she says "I am just wandering how your children get there shots and whatever else they need if you don't have a doctor". Bang! If I had known what she was getting at I would have evaded her questions. I very stupidly said that my children don't have a doctor, don't have there shots. She puts on this huge fake smile looks sorrowfully at my precious newborn sleeping contently on my chest and leaves.
Approximately 24 hours later we get a visit from CPS. Here is the good thing. Although we were not prepared to get a visit from social services at the hospital we were prepared if they were to come to our house. We already knew "DO NOT LET ANYONE IN YOUR HOUSE UNLESS THEY HAVE A COURT ORDER. IT IS ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE TO GAIN ACCESS TO YOUR HOME WITHOUT ONE". So that is what we did we had a total of three visits before everything was cleared up. Each time they asked to come inside and each time we said "no". They did have to look at the children since we officially under investigation for medical neglect because we did not have a pediatrician for the kids. So we bundled the kids up and took them outside for a few moments for them clearly see that they were okay.
It was all a bunch of malarkey, but for the most part we stayed calm because we knew our rights. It is definitely not against the law to have a UC birth, have kids that are not vaccinated and not have a doctor. We also knew that they were just doing there jobs. They had to follow through with the complaint that had been filed by the social worker that visited us in the hospital.
I would say that it right to be concerned that CPS may come knocking at your door but you know your rights as an American citizen. For good measure I suggest that you get a little hand held tape recorder and record every interaction you might have with a social worker. Might being the key word. We would not have had any dealings with CPS had we not gone to the hospital.
I say be prepared for a visit, but realize that you probably won't have one.

Cynthia--Among other things, I am a wife and mother to two boys.
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#15 of 25 Old 11-17-2007, 11:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm getting such a better picture of how things really are. Thank you!

IF CPS did come-a-knockin', do you see that it would help my "case" to have "official" prenatal records? Or would it be just as good to do a good job of keeping my own written records (UP-style)?
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#16 of 25 Old 11-18-2007, 09:59 AM
 
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UC is perfectly legal. Keep your plans to yourself, if it makes you feel better. If for some reason CPS shows up, make sure your house is clean, basically. When they get called for stupid things they have to investigate but they're not unreasonable (usually) and they're busy. I had a friend who had CPS called because she refused to supplement with formula (an LC called on her!) before consulting her pediatrician. They came over, spent a couple of minutes talking to her, and left.

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#17 of 25 Old 11-18-2007, 06:57 PM
 
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Mrs. Kennedy, You seem to have some experience here. Wish you didn't! So, when you're right in the thick of the CPS crapola, is the fear of actually getting in trouble / losing your baby a legitimate fear?
I don't know what you mean... If you mean was it there/did we think about it, yes, we did. But we knws how to play the game. We didn't get DS vaxed, but we did take him to a couple WBVs, etc. We also had to move but that was b/c we lived with some "questionable" people--and I wanted to move anyway. That was enough. CPS was a total PITA! But our caseworker was ok, and I made it a point to tell him every single good thing I could think of--DS was gaining weight, slept through the night, and so on. I never said we cosleep, as I know they hate that. The main thing is, if they show up, don't say anything non-mainstream if you can help it. They btough tup the vax issue b/c somehow they knew we didn't want to vax. But I showed them the law and they shut up. They didn't like it, but it worked. Anyway, make them think you're as mainstream as possible, and know the law on the things you refuse to hide. And most of all as I said before, stop worrying about it! Make your prep plan, and then forget about it.

For me, having an MW isn't worth it. So I'm not. But if it's worth it to you, go get one.
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#18 of 25 Old 11-18-2007, 07:01 PM
 
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xekomaya, know that it's not really an MW's responsibility to be an advocate for you. Read some of pamamidwife's blog or some stuff from navelgazing midwife--Barbara, sorry I don't remember her last name. Anyway, try to prep yourself and your DS as much as you can. B/c an MW won't, for instance, keep CPS from you or the knife in the case of a Csec, etc. Just like a doula won't. It's hard to tell what their jobs are... But it's not advocacy... That's your job. It's your body and your baby, and you need to stand up for both. Not an easy thing. But it's necessary.
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#19 of 25 Old 11-19-2007, 03:20 PM
 
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I haven't heard anything negative from our birth, but then again, ds hasn't been seen by any "professionals" yet.

Out of curiosity, I asked a friend in AK who is a social worker for CPS what he thought about the whole CPS being called about a UC. He looked at me like I had two heads and said his office would never even consider investigating that!

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#20 of 25 Old 11-19-2007, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Do any of you know where/how to get hard copies of the laws about parental rights - such as the non-vax and UC stuff? I'd LOVE to keep copies on file.
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#21 of 25 Old 11-19-2007, 05:02 PM
 
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I haven't heard anything negative from our birth, but then again, ds hasn't been seen by any "professionals" yet.

Out of curiosity, I asked a friend in AK who is a social worker for CPS what he thought about the whole CPS being called about a UC. He looked at me like I had two heads and said his office would never even consider investigating that!
Here in CA, I can't imagine the hoopla we would have to go through if CPS were called on us here for that!

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#22 of 25 Old 11-19-2007, 05:31 PM
 
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xekomaya, know that it's not really an MW's responsibility to be an advocate for you.
Thank you - you're right. I think I didn't explain myself well, or really just used the word wrong. I really just mean a trusted medical professional, in a situation that I would want a medical professional.

For example, if I transfer, it will be for a c-section, it would be nice to have her explaining any pain relief options I have/answering my questions after. As prepared as I am there are likely to be things I don't know about and in that case I'll take a trusted opinion -- someone who will remind me of herbal options, etc. DH's only job after the baby is out, is to ensure the care of the baby, I don't want him to be distracted trying to help me.

Maybe that is a little more clear? Birth is a private act, but every woman deserves a supportive community behind her in stressful times -- I don't really have that so I'm hoping a medical professional who has similar ideas of birth & medical care will make it easier for me to advocate for myself should it be necessary that anyone is involved at all.

To the OP, the "oops" strategy I think is fairly common. Lots of people UC but not necessarily UP. The midwife I'm seeing is actually a CNM, but shes the most laid back and like-minded of everyone I interviewed. She was recommended to me by some mamas on MDC actually. I interviewed tons and tons of midwives in the area over the phone and "fired" all of them before I had to even see them. The hombirth forum has some great questions to help interview a midwife if you decide to go that route.

Then again, if fear of CPS is the only reason you're choosing a midwife, I might tend to agree with some of the PP's re: the fear aspect. There are a lot of other issues and considerations when you indicate that another person is "allowed" to be at your birth, even if you plan to change the plan. I could talk for hours about why that decision is right for me and my husband, but my reasons won't be your reasons.

Just as MrsKennedy was saying to me, and she's very right, a medical professional can't protect you from anything.

I think part of restoring birth will result in restoring the medical profession. They should be a trusted and valuable resource in our community. It's so sad that we can even talk about being scared to see or use a medical professional when necessary, either for their behavior or legal consequences

That was really long, sorry!

XM,: mama to ds (5/08), dd (9/10) and ds (6/12) ! whale.gif :C.H.S & M.

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#23 of 25 Old 11-21-2007, 06:05 PM
 
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What do you do if things go south, as in a complication causes death to the baby or mother?
It happens, so what happens to the family then?
(totally sincere question)
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#24 of 25 Old 11-26-2007, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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NoMariposa, I've been wondering that too.
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#25 of 25 Old 11-26-2007, 02:34 PM
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the state has an obligation to check such things, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the children will be removed from the family. it really depends on a variety of circumstances.

as an example, here are two stories. one is old--from the early 80s when my mom worked in admitting at the hospital, and one is newer (from the late 1990s). btw, these are paraphrases, and i'll find the sources if you want, but it's a lot of work.

1. children removed from the home story:

a woman has a HB w/MW. MW notices a problem with the mother and asserts that she should get hospital, medical treatment. mother refuses, and the MW leaves.

a few days later, the mother is very ill, and the baby is also ill (BFed baby). they go to the hospital, where my mother admits her. the mother did not want to admit the baby.

the baby then stops breathing while my mother is doing paper work. my mother notices, calls the emergency desk, and they send a nurse with oxygen. the mother starts to panic, and they take both mother and baby back into the emergency room while the father finsihes the paperwork.

there are two older children as well.

due to the baby's illness and apparent lack of medical care between birth and this hospital visit (less than a week), the doctors call the social workers. the children are taken from the family, etc.

the reason was because they neglected to get medical attention and their midwife advised it. this, then, is neglect, and it's why the children were taken.

the mother and baby were treated, and i believe that, eventually, they got their children back.

2. unassisted childbirth story:

this one is one that i found on the internet, where CPS was called.

essentially, a mother of 4 children was having her UC. everything was going fine, and everyone ws healthy.

a jumpy neighbor called an ambulance, and they refused to be seen or taken to the hospital.

the birth was fine, no problems. they took the child to the doctor about 10 days later.

the neighbor was nosy and didn't realize this, and called CPS saying that the mother/family was neglecting the baby's medical needs. CPS investigated, found out that this wasn't the case, and everything was fine.

And, if you want a good series of stories about CPS and all of that, Laura Shanley's Unassisted Childbirth book is really great.
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