Our "stats", according to UC Roll Call (stillbirth/mortality rates mentioned) - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In case any of you have ever been curious as to our c/section rates, mortality rates, transfer rates, whatever... I sat down and counted.

DH wanted to know how good of statistics UCers really had so I decided to show him!


There are 414 births listed total. I did not read into birth stories, just went by the notes after the usernames (because while I do have some free time I don't have THAT much)

Out of 414 births, we had:
Hospital transfers: 33, or 7.9%
Cesarean sections: 9, or 2.1%
Stillbirths: 3, or 0.72%

I'd say that's pretty good, considering we "aren't professionals" and "don't know what the heck we're doing"...

Anyone know the stats (mortality) for assisted home birth, and hospital birth? How many per thousand? I know in my state the average mortality rate is 0.86%

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#2 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 08:14 PM
 
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Wow, that's interesting & impressive! Thanks for doing the math & posting!

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#3 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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did these stats come from the ucers here or some other site?

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#4 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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They came from the UC roll call sticky only

Sunny coolshine.gif: gun toting, retired breastfeeding, car seat loving, guitar playing, home birthing and schooling mama to Jakob (10.06), Mikah (07.08) and Korah (07.11). uc.jpg 

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#5 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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hhmmm.those stats actually very closely relate to the recent CPM study done about midwife attended homebirth. About a 8% transfer rate, less than 2% c/s rate, and less than 1% still birth rate.
Interesting.

CPST
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#6 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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Very cool.

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#7 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 09:30 PM
 
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Thanks for calculating that, sunny.

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#8 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry, mortality rate is actually 0.48%

I actually read the stories and bawled my eyes out (gah, stupid pregnant me, I should wait until July to do this!!) and realized one of them had gone to the hospital and babe was still fine once they got to the hospital... so that would be a UP but hospital birth.

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#9 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 10:29 PM
 
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No, there are three actual stillbirths that have occurred; she was right about the mortality rate.

One day I will figure up our yearly mortality rates for the past few years.

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#10 of 34 Old 02-19-2008, 10:32 PM
 
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#11 of 34 Old 02-20-2008, 02:54 AM
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Very cool of you to do that!

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#12 of 34 Old 02-20-2008, 03:59 AM
 
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neato! glad to know I've contributed to the 'yay, me!' outcome!!
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#13 of 34 Old 02-20-2008, 10:47 AM
 
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Thanks!!

OUR DAUGHTERS ARE PROTECTED SHOULDN'T OUR SONS BE TOO! :
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#14 of 34 Old 02-20-2008, 03:58 PM
 
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Awesome!

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#15 of 34 Old 02-20-2008, 06:36 PM
 
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Wow! Very nice! Thanks for doing that!

I'm not surprised that the number are virtually identical to CPM numbers... after all we have a vested interest in our own bodies and our own babies. We wouldn't be doing this if we weren't knowledgeable about it in the first place.

-Kristi
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#16 of 34 Old 02-20-2008, 08:11 PM
 
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thanks so much!! i'd been trying for a while to find stats on UC outcomes(its easy to find homebirth stats WITH attendant, but not without). very cool!
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#17 of 34 Old 02-21-2008, 03:40 AM
 
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Remember that the UC roll call is pretty self reported- statistically one of the least reliable methods of information gathering. The statistics are interesting to look at, but how do you account for the fact that moms that transfer/have traumatic experiences are less likely to come back to a UC forum and share their story?

I am a full supporter of UC as a childbirth method and had my first via UC 17mo ago. There is more to the statistics then just skimming the UC roll call birth stories and more to the safety then book knowledge. Just saying

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#18 of 34 Old 02-21-2008, 09:56 AM
 
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There are also moms that had a great (painless, here!) UC, that just don't feel comfortable sharing something as intimate as a birth story online. Although I post freely about my UC, I'm not in the sticky or even on the birth story subforum.
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#19 of 34 Old 02-21-2008, 06:07 PM
 
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Okay, some numbers for you:
The CPM 2000 study (largest study of planned home birth with CPMs) had 5418 women who started labor planning to birth at home. There were 5 intrapartum deaths (deaths during labor but before birth), plus 4 more stillbirths that weren't counted since the babies died before labor began.

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After we excluded four stillborns who died before labour but whose mothers still chose home birth, and three babies with fatal birth defects, five deaths were intrapartum and six occurred during the neonatal period (see box). This was a rate of 2.0 deaths per 1000 intended home births. The intrapartum and neonatal mortality was 1.7 deaths per 1000 low risk intended home births after planned breeches and twins (not considered low risk) were excluded.
If we count 5 stillbirths, that is 0.9/1000
If we count all 9 (including women who chose to labor at home, knowing their baby had already died), that is 1.7/1000

The UC roll call has a stillbirth rate of 3/414, or 7.2/1000. Now, we don't know how many of the stillbirths occurred before labor began, as opposed to during labor (intrapartum).

Obviously, we don't have enough births to be statistically significant, and there is the problem that the births are self-reported, so the outcomes could be skewed depending on who doesn't report their births. It does seem, though, that we have a much higher rate of stillbirth than planned home births with CPMs, although again we would need more info on the stillbirths to make any conclusions.
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#20 of 34 Old 02-21-2008, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://web.archive.org/web/200708081...com/stats.html

(It's an archived link since some of their pages aren't working currently)

Sunny coolshine.gif: gun toting, retired breastfeeding, car seat loving, guitar playing, home birthing and schooling mama to Jakob (10.06), Mikah (07.08) and Korah (07.11). uc.jpg 

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#21 of 34 Old 02-21-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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This is good to know - thanks!
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#22 of 34 Old 02-22-2008, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logcabinmomma View Post
Wow! Very nice! Thanks for doing that!

I'm not surprised that the number are virtually identical to CPM numbers... after all we have a vested interest in our own bodies and our own babies. We wouldn't be doing this if we weren't knowledgeable about it in the first place.

-Kristi
: !
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#23 of 34 Old 02-23-2008, 12:09 AM
 
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Interesting!!!

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#24 of 34 Old 02-23-2008, 01:00 AM
 
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I assume though that any deaths that occurred after transfer in the CNM study did not count toward the homebirth stats? As sunnymw said, one of the deaths on the UC roll call occurred in the hospital and was not attributed to the labor being largely unassisted. Maybe that ought to be made more clear on the roll call, because it seems nearly everyone makes the mistake.

But yes, even accounting for that the percentages are pretty different. Then again, as Rixa pointed out, 400 as a sample group is not really considered statistically significant. And then again, it's interesting that compared to the "UC" study so often held up as evidence that UC is inherently dangerous (of a religious community that did not necessarily have access to or accept medical help when needed, and in which there very well could have been a non-professional type of midwifery practiced among its members) our rate is quite low. That study had something like 30 deaths among 350 births. (You can do a search for it, it's in the "statistics" thread in the UC forum.) I believe our rate is also comparable to the early Farm stats.

Personally, I'd expect to see the percentage be higher in all UC birth (even excluding unintentional UC and intentional infanticide) than in all midwife-attended birth. Death occurs for two basic reasons: nature fails (at least from our perspective) or it's environmentally caused. Not all unassisted births are unmanaged or undisturbed births. The difference between disturbed birth in the absence of a professional and professional-disturbed birth is that in the event of a complication, there is a medically-trained person in the latter group to deal with it. If that would make a difference in mortality stats between those two groups, shouldn't it also make a difference between undisturbed UC and midwife-attended birth as well? Yes, if the need for professional help in undisturbed UC statistically outweighs the risk of environmentally-caused complications in midwife-attended birth. But we don't actually know that, because we do not yet have a sample group large enough to reasonably rule out statistical anomaly. Similarly, when women began homebirthing again in the past generation, they did not yet have statistical evidence that the need for hospital expertise would outweigh the benefits of avoiding hospital dangers.

But the other reason we don't know it and may never know it is that this is not a controlled experiment. At the Farm, the midwives were trained under one woman who was trained largely by one doctor. They had general standards, and it was a pretty homogeneous situation. The same holds true for the CNM study. That is not the case with UC.
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#25 of 34 Old 02-23-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieFaye View Post
There are also moms that had a great (painless, here!) UC, that just don't feel comfortable sharing something as intimate as a birth story online. Although I post freely about my UC, I'm not in the sticky or even on the birth story subforum.
you don't have to post your birth story to be included in the roll call. Just thought I'd mention that.
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#26 of 34 Old 02-24-2008, 02:40 PM
 
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I didn't even really think to do it. I had a UC that ended in a stillbirth but never posted on roll call.

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#27 of 34 Old 02-24-2008, 06:09 PM
 
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I also need people to remember that sometimes death occurs before the onset of labour and is clearly identified and confirmed by technology. In these circumstances, homebirth or even UC remains an appropriate, gentle and dignified way of marking this momentous event in a woman and her family's lives together.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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#28 of 34 Old 02-24-2008, 07:31 PM
 
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I didn't even really think to do it. I had a UC that ended in a stillbirth but never posted on roll call.
It's listed in the roll call thread, hon.
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#29 of 34 Old 02-25-2008, 06:15 PM
 
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Just FYI, people who ask to be put on the due date list are automatically moved onto the birth list once they've given birth.
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#30 of 34 Old 02-25-2008, 06:42 PM
 
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Then again, as Rixa pointed out, 400 as a sample group is not really considered statistically significant.
I just lurk here and on MDC in general, but one of the only things I know about in life is statistics. In getting my PhD I took just about every stat class possible including coursework in quantitative design. An n of 400 is a great sample, and to get a statistically signigicant result with most runs you only need about 30 in your sample.

Statistical signnificance is based on where alpha levels, etc are set - not the amount in your sample. The idea of significance is not applicable here since all she did was look at percentages. I understand that the term was probably just being used in a practical manner, but there is no "significance" in those data either way.

Just wanted you to know that you actually have a pretty good sample here. Yep, there are some confounding variables with self report (as mentioned earlier), but sample size is not an issue. Rixa could probably run some real stats on those data.
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