News Article: Bush Signs Bill to Take All Newborns' DNA - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.infowars.com/?p=1896

I think we will be seeing a lot more women visiting our UC forum more and more in the near future.

This is not right. I will be UCing, but I do not think anyone should be FORCED to UC simply to avoid having their newborns' DNA on file in the government and USED FOR GENETIC EXPERIEMENTS.

I can't believe I'm saying this. I can't believe it's come down to this. This is like something out of a really scary horror movie.

And even we UCers are not out of the loop. If we bring our baby to the doctor for any reason (whether that be a well-baby check, to establish a pedi, or because the baby is actually very sick!), they are required to get this DNA testing? Did I read that right?

Please someone, tell me I'm misreading. Maybe the bill will be overturned? Is there nothing that can be done?? I feel sick.

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#2 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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this looks like a crock to me. I can see no way this can be enforced.

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#3 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think it's a crock.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1858

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:S.1858:

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#4 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:31 PM
 
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What are we coming to? Agh!
This week, I discovered that our state refund was attached for a bill from 99' & 04' from the Genetic Dept. from the state. I was in shock! One, because we were unaware of the bills, two, the ins. apparently didn't pay the state & three, we don't believe we even approved the genetic testing on the 04' baby. It's for the AFP & prenatal screening done at the hospitals. I had no idea that the prenatal screening at the hospital (the prick to the foot) was even sent for genetic testing.
I'll be spending today w/my medical file to try to get copies of what I need to prove otherwise.
Needless to say, as the days go by, there's one more think that makes me firm up our decision to UC.
I was aware that they were doing genetic testing on inmates, now. Does that mean we're all prisoners now??
The whole thing is disgusting.
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#5 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:35 PM
 
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Oh, WOW...

I'd love to say I'm surprised... but unfortunately I'm just surprised it took this long.

Maybe this is what'll kick my conspiracy-theorist DH into the camp of "WBVisits are useless and DANGEROUS"

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#6 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:42 PM
 
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The title of this thread really doesn't accurately depict what the actual bill is about though. If you use the govtrack link above it's about expanding and esuring that there is an across the board standard for newborn screening for genetic and metabolic disorders. AKA what we call the PKU test.

At this time there is no universal set of screenings that is uniform from state to state. Some states test for just a few, while others test for 30+.

As I read it, the bill will expand this program, qualify it for grant funding and help esure a uniformity of newborn screening. In a nut shell.

We declined the PKU testing with our children. I don't see anyting in the bill that makes it mandatory.

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#7 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I can change the title if you think it necessary. I just copied and pasted the title from the title of the article.

I'm not sure if they're making it mandatory or not, after reading further into the bill...but from section 4:

(1) making recommendations that include the heritable disorders for which all newborns should be screened; (2) developing a model decision-matrix for newborn screening expansion; and (3) considering ways to ensure that all states attain the capacity to screen for the recommended conditions. Sets forth deadlines for the Secretary to make a decision on Advisory Committee recommendations.

What's scarier though is section 6:

1) programs to collect, analyze, and make available data on certain heritable disorders; and (2) the establishment of regional centers to conduct applied epidemiological research on effective interventions for preventing poor health outcomes resulting from such disorders and to provide information and education to the public on such effective interventions.

Doesn't that mean that they'll be keeping the DNA, that it is property of the government, to be used for "research"?

I'm not normally a conspiracy theory person, but all of this is scaring the crap out of me.

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#8 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by feminine_earth View Post
I can change the title if you think it necessary. I just copied and pasted the title from the title of the article.

I'm not sure if they're making it mandatory or not, after reading further into the bill...but from section 4:

(1) making recommendations that include the heritable disorders for which all newborns should be screened; (2) developing a model decision-matrix for newborn screening expansion; and (3) considering ways to ensure that all states attain the capacity to screen for the recommended conditions. Sets forth deadlines for the Secretary to make a decision on Advisory Committee recommendations.

What's scarier though is section 6:

1) programs to collect, analyze, and make available data on certain heritable disorders; and (2) the establishment of regional centers to conduct applied epidemiological research on effective interventions for preventing poor health outcomes resulting from such disorders and to provide information and education to the public on such effective interventions.

Doesn't that mean that they'll bee keeping the DNA, that is is property of the government, to be used for "research".

I'm not normally a conspiracy theory person, but all of this is scaring the crap out of me.
I don't think it's necessary to change the title, but I do think the media is being intentionally misleading in titling the article in such a way.

The first section quoted uses the word should, which doesn't imply mandatory to me at this point.

The second reads to me that they'll collect data on such disorders and hopefully establish centers where those disorders can be further researched and develop current interventions and create new ones to help treat these disorders.

We know that these types of genetic disorders lack in research and treatment and I read this bill as an attempt to improve diagnosis, and available treatments for the genetic disorders that exist.

If we're talking the standard PKU type testing after the test there's not much left to work with so that being used for further genetic research really isn't much of a concern for me.

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#9 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Most of what you say has helped me feel much better (as in, I'm not hyperventilating anymore! ), except the last part. I do have a problem with my child's DNA being stored somewhere forever and used for experimentation (or "research"), no matter what the reason. Maybe I've seen too many sci-fi movies. Maybe I just want my child to be the one to decide who gets his/her DNA. I dunno. I just don't like this at all...

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#10 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:24 PM
 
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I will say that upon first glance, it does seem rather "big brotherish" but after reading through the actual bill proposal, it does not seem as controlling and scary as once thought.

I personally would rather there NOT be stuff like this.........but this is coming from a person that despises most medical tests and procedures. lol

But I personally do not feel overly threatened by it. All of my family is probably already on file anyway (outside of the one I am still pg with)....so fretting about it, will not help anything.

My question is, how is this type of stuff any different than social security and such? Providing you are a legal resident of the United States of America, you would be on file and accounted for....given a number....your social security number. The government 'knows' the legal people that exist in the states, so why does it matter if they have their medical records to? They already have some of the most vital information a person has to their name. So why does it matter if they have blood types and such on file?

Of course I am one of those people that would not mind living off of the map so to speak...but of course at the same time, you give up the benefits that come with it......such as economic stimulous payments....lol.
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#11 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:36 PM
 
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it doesnt scare me. ever single 'scary medical requirement' i have come across has had an opt-out procedure, and i have opted out at will. vaccination, PKU, etc- i even brought my first placenta home from the hospital. they had a form ready for me to sign to opt out. i am sure this will be the same.

i am also not scared by it because i dont feel as though our family has anything that can be exploited. what are they going to do? clone us and use the clones to frame us for murders?

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#12 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:40 PM
 
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I'm confused as to why it's a big deal to have a sample of someone's DNA for future research. Unless, of course, it were voodoo DNA. Does anyone feel a poke while their DNA is being tested?

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#13 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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what are they going to do? clone us and use the clones to frame us for murders?
I know, right?? I mean, really, who would actually think of these things? :

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#14 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm confused as to why it's a big deal to have a sample of someone's DNA for future research. Unless, of course, it were voodoo DNA. Does anyone feel a poke while their DNA is being tested?
Oh goodness, I guess they are personal reasons. I certainly don't want my DNA being used for genetic experimentation, nor that of my future children. If my future children don't mind the government getting hold of their DNA, that's their choice. But until they can make that choice, it is my responsibility to protect them.

I dunno. I guess I'm crazy. But it's one thing being assigned a number, it's another thing having the government own rights to your personal DNA. No way. That's crossing some major personal boundaries with me.

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#15 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:50 PM
 
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I'm confused as to why it's a big deal to have a sample of someone's DNA for future research. Unless, of course, it were voodoo DNA. Does anyone feel a poke while their DNA is being tested?
It's a big deal to me cause it's my/my childs body. Even bad guys can't have their dna collected without a warrant. So having my kids dna on file so free and breezy with the gov makes me ill. Oh and I guess it is pertinent that I oppose cloning and embryonic research. So no thanks!!

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#16 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:53 PM
 
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Most of what you say has helped me feel much better (as in, I'm not hyperventilating anymore! ), except the last part. I do have a problem with my child's DNA being stored somewhere forever and used for experimentation (or "research"), no matter what the reason. Maybe I've seen too many sci-fi movies. Maybe I just want my child to be the one to decide who gets his/her DNA. I dunno. I just don't like this at all...
be rest assured, they are probably not keeping a vile of your kid's blood on hand somewhere. It will just be numbers and stats of the tests performed (stored with millions of other people...not alone on a wall with flashing lights). Which I am sure the personal facts that are available are already used for research and such. That is one way they come up with populace statistics and such.
I understand, it is nice to have some sense of privacy...but lets face it....that is pretty much unheard of anymore......for several reasons.
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#17 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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be rest assured, they are probably not keeping a vile of your kid's blood on hand somewhere. It will just be numbers and stats of the tests performed (stored with millions of other people...not alone on a wall with flashing lights). Which I am sure the personal facts that are available are already used for research and such. That is one way they come up with populace statistics and such.
I understand, it is nice to have some sense of privacy...but lets face it....that is pretty much unheard of anymore......for several reasons.
I'm sorry, but there is no way I could ever rest assured knowing that my or my kids' DNA is no longer my property...regardless of how inconspicuous its holding container may be.

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#18 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:09 PM
 
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I'm sorry, but there is no way I could ever rest assured knowing that my or my kids' DNA is no longer my property...regardless of how inconspicuous its holding container may be.
Not to be argumentative, but you do realize your kid sheds DNA when he or she is out and about, and that the government CAN take that DNA when it's out there, right?

Let's say your child was drinking a cup of water out in public and left it. If they wanted, since it was left, they could try to get a sample of the DNA from that. So the DNA isn't so much your property since it sheds all over the place (hairs, body fluids, etc). At least that's my understanding of DNA, and I could be wrong.

As for the DNA collections, I'm a bit torn. As long as there's an opt-out I'm happy. (I'm totally against mandating anything to where parents have no control.) I don't see using DNA for genetic research as such a bad thing. It could seriously help children and adults with genetic disorders that hinder them living healthy, normal lives sometimes.

But that's just me.

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#19 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Not to be argumentative, but you do realize your kid sheds DNA when he or she is out and about, and that the government CAN take that DNA when it's out there, right?

Let's say your child was drinking a cup of water out in public and left it. If they wanted, since it was left, they could try to get a sample of the DNA from that. So the DNA isn't so much your property since it sheds all over the place (hairs, body fluids, etc). At least that's my understanding of DNA, and I could be wrong.
Some things are beyond my control. If someone wanted to steal my child's DNA off a drinking cup, that is theft, and I can't make someone an un-thief.

However, there are no bills being passed by the president saying that the government will be going around scraping DNA off of cups. I don't really see how that relates to making DNA tests of newborns mandatory, ya know?

Quote:
It could seriously help children and adults with genetic disorders that hinder them living healthy, normal lives sometimes.
Or it could start weeding out all people with genetic disorders, or eventually preventing them from having babies (as this could pass on the genetic disorder).

I know, I know...totally crazy! But honestly, it's been done before, in many civilizations, and I see no reason to trust that it will never happen again.

Ok, I will go to the looney corner now.

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#20 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:17 PM
 
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: I need to read those clearly...

very glad I generally DON'T do WBV.

my issue with the DNA is multiple, including potential exclusion from health insurance and life insurance based on genetic probabilities.
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#21 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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my issue with the DNA is multiple, including potential exclusion from health insurance and life insurance based on genetic probabilities.
I never thought about that! That is a good reason to oppose this law...better than my "they will clone my babies!!!" reason.

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#22 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:35 PM
 
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be rest assured, they are probably not keeping a vile of your kid's blood on hand somewhere. It will just be numbers and stats of the tests performed (stored with millions of other people...not alone on a wall with flashing lights). Which I am sure the personal facts that are available are already used for research and such. That is one way they come up with populace statistics and such.
I understand, it is nice to have some sense of privacy...but lets face it....that is pretty much unheard of anymore......for several reasons.
I don't think that she can rest assure that they aren't doing just that! Samples are kept at labs and in some cases indefinitely. I am surprised that this is not widely known, but any woman who has ever had a pap should know that those samples are kept on file indefinitely, too. I was even told this when the pap sample was taken by my doctor when I was 18 years old. So, this has been going on for the last decade or two, at least. Just read here: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/03/03/395/96133
And they don't need your permission to use it for unauthorized uses.
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#23 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:39 PM
 
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be rest assured, they are probably not keeping a vile of your kid's blood on hand somewhere. It will just be numbers and stats of the tests performed (stored with millions of other people...not alone on a wall with flashing lights). Which I am sure the personal facts that are available are already used for research and such. That is one way they come up with populace statistics and such.
I understand, it is nice to have some sense of privacy...but lets face it....that is pretty much unheard of anymore......for several reasons.
also....all be it a dumb point, but keep in mind, we are constantly dropping off clues of our DNA everywhere we go.....we drop a hair here, leave a finger print there......but of course...these are typically not searched for and tested...unless it is a crime scene....lol.

Also my question is IF they are going to keep more on file than just some numbers (meaning an actual sample of DNA), how in the world are they going to store and preserve (if needed) millions and millions of people's data? That seems like a lot of work and a lot of space needed. Which I understand, you can get DNA in small forms, such as by a hair or a fingerprint, but they would still have to protect it somehow... as to not mess up, lose or mix match the info....... but truly...is it all worth it? To me they would just have the DNA code......not actual DNA. Which I understand that is just as bad to a degree. But really I do not think we really have much to fret about.
Also, it is not like they are going to sift through all of the millions of millions of people and pull out your kid's file and start experimenting with it. If any research or experiementation was done, it would probably be clumped with tons of other people......unless of course the child had some freak non nomal DNA sequence, in which they wanted to test to see if the child was in fact human and not alien.....

Now if they start REQUIRING EVERYONE to get injected with a monitoring system......THEN I will be one of the first to throw a fit and try to stop it!
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#24 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 05:44 PM
 
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: I need to read those clearly...

very glad I generally DON'T do WBV.

my issue with the DNA is multiple, including potential exclusion from health insurance and life insurance based on genetic probabilities.
many(if not all) health and life insurance companies require blood work or other testing........so they would have any info they needed if they wanted it.
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#25 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 06:01 PM
 
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blood work yes, but there are no standards requiring DNA testing at present. Being turned down for high cholesterol is one thing, being turned down because you carry the gene for breast cancer (regardless of your health) is quite another.
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#26 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 06:11 PM
 
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I don't think that she can rest assure that they aren't doing just that! Samples are kept at labs and in some cases indefinitely. I am surprised that this is not widely known, but any woman who has ever had a pap should know that those samples are kept on file indefinitely, too. I was even told this when the pap sample was taken by my doctor when I was 18 years old. So, this has been going on for the last decade or two, at least. Just read here: http://www.talkleft.com/story/2005/03/03/395/96133
And they don't need your permission to use it for unauthorized uses.
again, I would be suprised if they decide to have an actual vile of blood from every person stored....as said prior...that would take a lot of space and work. Perhaps they choose to just use a dab of dried blood on a piece of paper....I do not know..I have not read where they say the method they plan to use. But even if it is a dried blood spot, I do not see why it matters that much. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I will say that if it did happen to turn out that they did require a vile of mine and my kids blood for them to have on hand, then I would not like it much and I would probably throw a fit about having to give the blood......but I still would not freak out about it for reasons that have been presented thus far. But I do not plan on any of mine or my kid's blood leaving our body anytime soon.

p.s. I personally do not care if they have my pap records stored or even blood work info
If they do have all of that stored, then the government and/or medical society sure are pack rats....lol
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#27 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 07:11 PM
 
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scary! glad I don't live in the states.
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#28 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 07:17 PM
 
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I work with a lot of statistics and such and I believe that this bill is much more about keeping track of patterns of genetic conditions and mutation, the same way that we already do in many other ways. I think that, realistically, the DNA samples would be tested for several genetic 'defects' and statistics would then be produced. Whether or not the samples will be destroyed is another matter, although it is entirely possible that they might be used up in the testing process.

If this was here in Canada, I would not be too worried, but I can definitely see the potential problems and consequences of such a bill. It does not seem too paranoid to think that they might make testing mandatory in the name of public health, the same way they get court orders for c-sections. It does not either seem beyond the US government to keep DNA profiles on file for future 'crime fighting' purposes. I would also be concerned about the potential for future eugenics based policies where the government might encourage or force people with certain genetic characteristics to not have children. Perhaps it is because I was just reading an article in an academic journal about how women who give birth in California prisons are usually sterilized (either with their 'consent' or because of some fake 'medical emergency'), but I would be very scared of the government having that kind of information.

I find it quite ridiculous that the government is going around passing bills like this while there still is no universal free health care. I guess we can see where their priorities are.

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#29 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by soso-lynn View Post
I would also be concerned about the potential for future eugenics based policies where the government might encourage or force people with certain genetic characteristics to not have children.
That's exactly what I was thinking.

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#30 of 61 Old 05-20-2008, 08:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by feminine_earth View Post
I'm sorry, but there is no way I could ever rest assured knowing that my or my kids' DNA is no longer my property...regardless of how inconspicuous its holding container may be.
So you've homebirthed and know where all of your children's placentas are?
You've never given blood, a blood sample, had blood work?

They're not keeping your DNA, they're trying to make testing for diseases such as PKU uniform across the US and they want to track those statistics and offer early or improved intervention to those who may be diagnosed with a genetic disorder via the newborn screening. Early intervention and treatment lessens the long term burden on our society and health system.

That said, we didn't opt for PKU/genetic screening, so this doesn't bother me. But if we had a family history or via genetic counseling found out we SHOULD test, I'd have no issues with having my child tested by what is commonly known as PKU testing.

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