Applied kinesiology and food intolerances - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just got home from an appointment with a naturopath for my son and now am feeling so lost. She used applied kinesiology to diagnose him with a whole slew of food intolerances. She said they are not an allergy exactly, but that his immune system is pretty badly compromised and that if we keep going the way we are, he will develop some pretty bad physical illnesses.

I feel like I am pretty open minded about a lot of alternative therapies and practices, but this just felt weird to me. She had him laying on my chest and she applied pressure to my arm as I laid there with him on me. As she said each food that she was "testing", she would apply pressure to my arm, and depending on how my arm reacted, she would state if it was a safe food, or one that needed to be avoided.

I do think he has some food sensitivities, but I am not sure how I feel about this way of testing him. Has anyone here had any experience with applied kinesiology?

I did some digging online and found a study that found it as accurate as random guessing, which does not give me a whole lot of confidence. I know it can't hurt to cut the things out of his diet that she gave me on his list, but it will be difficult, (and expensive).

I am just not sure how serious to take her, or exactly what to do for my son now.

Formerly single Mama to the zaniest boy on the block, born on my birthday on 3/28/07. Soon to be Mama to a new little and can't wait to bfinfant.gif and femalesling.GIF and familybed1.gif again! 
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#2 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 03:40 PM
 
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I've heard good things about that, although we haven't done it ourselves.

Do you have reason to believe that he has food allergies/intolerances (other than what that testing told you)? Are there any symptoms- issues with digestion, skin, sleep, behavior, etc.? Never mind... I just re-read your post and saw that you DO think he has food issues.

So I guess I would say that it wouldn't hurt to try removing those foods from his diet for a while to see if symptoms improve. There really is NO 100% accurate allergy testing, so the best way to figure it out is to start a food journal- keep track of everything he eats and all symptoms- and watch for patterns.

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#3 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 03:53 PM
 
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and mtn.mama just bumped her crystal testing thread. I, also, have found this method to be eerily accurate and definately worth a try since all it costs is the cost of a crystal. it's the same idea basically so maybe you can try cross checking all the findings you're currently working with.

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#4 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:10 PM
 
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Applied kinesiology, like all medicine, is only as good as the practitioner. We have a good chiro... but I have heard that some folks have not fared as well.

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#5 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:10 PM
 
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What did she want you to do with the test results? Are you supposed to eliminate completely? Rotate foods?

Does your dc react to the foods she mentioned? Does your child have any allergy or intolerance symptoms at all?

Are you working on gut-healing (probiotics, cod liver oil, etc.).

We had muscle testing done with my dd, but honestly, I already knew her allergies (through testing and food journaling) and I foolishly told the practitioner all of them, so surprise, surprise, all the ones that popped up were the ones I mentioned. The fact that his treatment modality didn't work (NAET) just made me skeptical of the whole thing, so I'm probably not the best one to recommend it.
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#6 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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The naturopath I went to this spring did it. I said I thought I was possibly having trouble with gluten (since I'd already tried taking out milk and soy -- both my kids' issues -- with no improvement). She tested me for gluten and said it was fine. Go ahead and keep eating it. This summer, when both my kids tested positive for gluten (ALCAT test), I went off it too. Lo and behold -- my back pain went away enough for me to go off all the pain meds. So I don't know that that one was accurate, but the crystal testing wasn't accurate for us either, so maybe we're just wired weirdly.

It wouldn't hurt to go off those foods for a couple weeks and see what happens.

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#7 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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We haven't done NAET, though I am currently leaning toward starting acupuncture. My chiro's instruction was to "stay away from foods that are bad for you". So I crystal test continually, stay away from what's off limits, wait for that particular food to start passing for us, wait awhile longer (sometimes months) and then trial the food. No reaction? Then I put in into our food rotation. Sometimes however, the food will crystal test as acceptable, then we try the food, and the crystal changes its mind. Its like our bodies forgot that the food was not safe and had to be reminded or something.

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#8 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What did she want you to do with the test results? Are you supposed to eliminate completely? Rotate foods?

Does your dc react to the foods she mentioned? Does your child have any allergy or intolerance symptoms at all?

Are you working on gut-healing (probiotics, cod liver oil, etc.).

We had muscle testing done with my dd, but honestly, I already knew her allergies (through testing and food journaling) and I foolishly told the practitioner all of them, so surprise, surprise, all the ones that popped up were the ones I mentioned. The fact that his treatment modality didn't work (NAET) just made me skeptical of the whole thing, so I'm probably not the best one to recommend it.
She wants me to cut them out of our diets completely. He is still nursing, so she wants them out of my diet as well, which makes sense to me. He was having vomiting and diarrhea and occasional constipation issues when he was smaller, but not for the past 4 months or so. He does cough a lot at night, and is always slightly congested.

She also had us buy a $22 bottle (small bottle) of cod liver oil. We are extremely low income and I am so stressed about finances that I nearly didn't buy it, but she was adamant that he needed it, so I got it.

She wants us to cut out all gluten foods, eggs, bananas, all berries, mangoes, peanuts, lamb and pork. The fruits were a staple of DS's breakfasts, as was oatmeal. She did say that Irish oatmeal from Ireland is ok, as it isn't grown near wheat, but when I checked the price at the grocery store, I just can't afford it.

I am getting so stressed out.

Formerly single Mama to the zaniest boy on the block, born on my birthday on 3/28/07. Soon to be Mama to a new little and can't wait to bfinfant.gif and femalesling.GIF and familybed1.gif again! 
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#9 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:47 PM
 
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Are you dairy-free already? Honestly, I would cut out ALL dairy and soy and give it a few weeks. It's pretty unusual for a baby/mom nursing pair to have food sensitivities that do not include dairy (and I recommend soy at the same time since the majority of dairy-allergic/sensitive also have issues with soy protein).

Of course, I'm just some stranger on the internet, so take my advice fwiw. It's entirely possible that your dc has other food sensitivities, but I think dairy/soy is the first and best thing to address before moving on other possibilities. And you can figure them out by doing a food journal and elimination diet.

I'm sorry you're so stressed about money, too. Does she want you to give the CLO to your baby or for you to take it? Do you take probiotics? The dairy-free ones tend to be expensive, but if you do take them, I'd definitely recommend a dairy, soy, wheat, etc.-free variety.
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#10 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 04:50 PM
 
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I was taught to do it by having the person being tested either hold the item or hold hands with the person holding the item {ie small children} not by simply naming the food...

For me, the muscle energy tests were right on. The instructor told me to look at increasing my medication, I did and things got much better. she told me to avoid a couple of my favorite snacks, i did and things got better focus wise and stomach issue wise.
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#11 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you dairy-free already? Honestly, I would cut out ALL dairy and soy and give it a few weeks. It's pretty unusual for a baby/mom nursing pair to have food sensitivities that do not include dairy (and I recommend soy at the same time since the majority of dairy-allergic/sensitive also have issues with soy protein).

Of course, I'm just some stranger on the internet, so take my advice fwiw. It's entirely possible that your dc has other food sensitivities, but I think dairy/soy is the first and best thing to address before moving on other possibilities. And you can figure them out by doing a food journal and elimination diet.

I'm sorry you're so stressed about money, too. Does she want you to give the CLO to your baby or for you to take it? Do you take probiotics? The dairy-free ones tend to be expensive, but if you do take them, I'd definitely recommend a dairy, soy, wheat, etc.-free variety.
She did seem surprised that dairy was ok for him. Honestly, it would be extremely hard on our budget to cut out dairy and soy. We receive WIC and it is a significant addition to our grocery budget. Replacing the cheese and milk that he consumes with alternatives that would cost more just isn't feasible right now. Obviously if he does end up intolerant to dairy and soy, I will do it, but I just don't know how. Cutting gluten and eggs out is going to be a pretty big stress already to our budget.

I tried to get him to take the CLO tonight for the first time, and I mixed it with a little maple syrup (she recommended this to get him to take it), but the syrup wouldn't stay mixed long enough to get it into him and he got maybe half of it into him. I took the rest and am going to try mixing it in with some oatmeal or yogurt in the morning to see if that will help him to get it in.

She did say I could take the CLO, and it would probably be good for me, but if I take it, it is 2 tsp a day and if he is taking it, it is only 3/4 tsp a day. I would rather he take it so we can make it last longer.

I don't currently take probiotics, but I could eventually. I can't afford them until at least next week, but I will try to pick up a bottle the next time I get paid. Any idea how much I should take? I can also give her a call and ask her about it.
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I was taught to do it by having the person being tested either hold the item or hold hands with the person holding the item {ie small children} not by simply naming the food...

For me, the muscle energy tests were right on. The instructor told me to look at increasing my medication, I did and things got much better. she told me to avoid a couple of my favorite snacks, i did and things got better focus wise and stomach issue wise.
See, this is what was making me feel really strange about it. I don't understand how just naming the food gave any feedback to her. I think that is what made me really feel uncomfortable about the whole appointment the most. She did say that when we come back in two weeks, I should try to bring foods with me that he eats that she didn't test so that she can do the rest. She said that having the foods with me would make it easier for her.

Any idea how long I should do the dietary changes to start to see some changes in him?

Also, one of the things that really made me feel strange was when she said his immune system was very compromised. This kid is NEVER sick. He has never had an ear infection, only maybe two colds since he was born, and the only "childhood" illness that he has had was Roseola. He has not been vaxed for anything either. When I said he never is sick, she said, she was meant that she just tested his immune system and found it very compromised. It really felt like a reprimand of me questioning her, although I couldn't tell you exactly why.

She said that he most likely has Celiac disease, and I asked her if there was a blood test for that and she said there was and she asked if I wanted the test. I said no, that I would wait and see if I saw any changes with altering his diet. Now I almost wish I had asked for the blood test, just to make me feel a little better about the testing that she did.

We did go grocery shopping tonight with the little that I had left on my food stamp card and got some gluten free flours to make some pancakes, breads, etc. I also picked up some Irish oats, gluten free animal crackers, pretzels and some corn chips (not healthy, I know, but easy) for him. For dinner, we had refried beans and cheese in corn tortillas (dang, I hate corn tortillas...), and he seemed to love it, so we have begun.

Honestly, I think that I am going to eat the foods that I have left in the house so that he at least gets less of the offending items. I can't afford to just toss that much groceries. Maybe I will eat them in the evening so I can digest them during the night when he doesn't nurse as much to lessen the effect.

This is going to be a long and difficult road for us.

Formerly single Mama to the zaniest boy on the block, born on my birthday on 3/28/07. Soon to be Mama to a new little and can't wait to bfinfant.gif and femalesling.GIF and familybed1.gif again! 
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#12 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 09:28 PM
 
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Any idea how long I should do the dietary changes to start to see some changes in him?

Also, one of the things that really made me feel strange was when she said his immune system was very compromised. This kid is NEVER sick. He has never had an ear infection, only maybe two colds since he was born, and the only "childhood" illness that he has had was Roseola. He has not been vaxed for anything either. When I said he never is sick, she said, she was meant that she just tested his immune system and found it very compromised. It really felt like a reprimand of me questioning her, although I couldn't tell you exactly why.
You should start to see improvement within maybe 3-5 days, but it will take weeks and weeks to completely clear.

DD is also one of the healthiest kids that I know (not counting the food allergies), which makes it weird to think that she has a compromised immune system. But I do know that like 70 or 80% of your immune system is in your gut (digestive track), and her gut definitely has some damage. So I do believe your doc when they say that the immune system is compromised, even if you can't see it.

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#13 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 09:45 PM
 
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She said that he most likely has Celiac disease, and I asked her if there was a blood test for that and she said there was and she asked if I wanted the test. I said no, that I would wait and see if I saw any changes with altering his diet. Now I almost wish I had asked for the blood test, just to make me feel a little better about the testing that she did.
This would send me running. If she thinks he has Celiac's disease, he shouldn't be eating Irish oats. Heck, some Celiac's cannot even tolerate gf oats. It is not a blood test that says that one has Celiac disease. It can show elevated antibody levels that would indicate the need for a biopsy, that is the gold standard in traditional diagnosis, not a blood test. Besides the fact that blood tests are horribly unreliable for small kids. She shouldn't be throwing around words like that so haphazardly without a little bit of study into it. If he has Celiac's it is nothing to mess around w/ and I find that scary.

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#14 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This would send me running. If she thinks he has Celiac's disease, he shouldn't be eating Irish oats. Heck, some Celiac's cannot even tolerate gf oats. It is not a blood test that says that one has Celiac disease. It can show elevated antibody levels that would indicate the need for a biopsy, that is the gold standard in traditional diagnosis, not a blood test. Besides the fact that blood tests are horribly unreliable for small kids. She shouldn't be throwing around words like that so haphazardly without a little bit of study into it. If he has Celiac's it is nothing to mess around w/ and I find that scary.
I did some digging online and was reading about the biopsy as the ultimate test for Celiac's. I definitely do not want him biopsied unless he absolutely needs it. He doesn't seem to have any of the more common symptoms. He is growing like a weed, his poops are normal, he doesn't complain of belly aches, is rarely fussy, (stubborn, but that is a different thread) he has a great appetite, etc. His only symptom is his cough at night and occasional insomnia.

I definitely want to do what is right for him, I just feel so conflicted after the appointment today.

Thanks for all of the input mamas, and thanks for reading my novel length posts here. I definitely appreciate all of your knowledge!

Formerly single Mama to the zaniest boy on the block, born on my birthday on 3/28/07. Soon to be Mama to a new little and can't wait to bfinfant.gif and femalesling.GIF and familybed1.gif again! 
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#15 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 11:16 PM
 
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This would send me running. If she thinks he has Celiac's disease, he shouldn't be eating Irish oats. Heck, some Celiac's cannot even tolerate gf oats. It is not a blood test that says that one has Celiac disease. It can show elevated antibody levels that would indicate the need for a biopsy, that is the gold standard in traditional diagnosis, not a blood test. Besides the fact that blood tests are horribly unreliable for small kids. She shouldn't be throwing around words like that so haphazardly without a little bit of study into it. If he has Celiac's it is nothing to mess around w/ and I find that scary.

OMG, I know!!! I'm sorry, but anyone who suspects Celiac Disease (whether the suspicion is valid or not) and then recommends Irish Oats is a completely uneducated idiot when it comes to allergies. As crunchy mama said - many celiacs cannot even tolerated gf oats, let along Irish oats which almost always have gluten x-con just like regular oats, just at lower levels. And I think we all feel your pain about the expense. No matter what a person's financial situation, this food shift thing is EXPENSIVE and allergy free foods add up fast. Eventually you'll figure out ways to more economically do everything but I think we all had a bit of shell shock at first. Good luck to you with everything.

Still a sleepy mama to my fabulous 2 year old girl
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#16 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 11:35 PM
 
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I agree with the PP that said it is all about the practitioner! We have a Chiro that I adore. He uses AK (along with other things) regularly. We have found it to be fantastically effective and accurate for everything from emotional issues to food allergies and supplement dosages.

I would say, don't knock AK - you just may not be seeing the most skilled practitioner. Every discipline has it's heroes and it's zeroes!
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#17 of 63 Old 11-21-2008, 11:56 PM
 
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The pp's have given great advice already.

I just wanted to add that to "replace" the oatmeal you can make rice cereal for him that is like the consistency of cream of wheat. Just put 1/4 cup rice in your blender and blend until it's in a powder. Boil 1 cup of water (I think it's a cup...it could be 1.5 cups, it's been awhile since I made this) and add the rice powder in, stirring to get the clumps out. Turn it down to low and cook until it's the right texture...usually about 5-10 mins. Then eat like cream of wheat.

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#18 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:09 AM
 
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If you are keeping dairy, then get kefir grains. There is a thread under traditional foods of mamas with grains who would be willing to ship it, some only for shipping cost. Kefir is a fermented milk product, packed with probiotics and it is easy to make. You can also make your own yogurt, which would have more bacteria than most store bought. Also look into fermented veggies, like sauer kraut, fermented carrots, pickles, etc. Make sure it is naturally fermented, not with vinegar, and that it isn't cooked. Good, easy, dairy free way to get probiotics into you. And aside from the probiotics the veggies increases in other good things, like B vits if I remember right. You can also make cabbage rejuvelac. There are threads for all of this under traditional foods.
Other gf grains to consider would be millet, amaranth, quinoa, sorghum. I don't know how much those are in the US, but some of them are quite affordable where I am from. If he eats oats you can try warm cornmeal porridge (it actually is good, my American dh likes it), serve with butter, sugar, milk, whatever. I also grew up on malted sorghum porridge for breakfast. Don't know where in the US you would look for something like that. Oh, and rice with milk, sugar, butter isn't bad either. Especially brown rice.
Sweet potatoes are not bad for breakfast. A little one might like it even better, not having set ideas of what should be eaten when. We actually have soup for breakfast.
If you have gut/allergy issues you can look into making bone broth. Get some bones, throw it in a pot with water to cover, add a little vinegar and salt and cook for 24-48 hours on low. We make it in our crock pot and now often have some on the wood stove. It makes great bases for soups, sauces, gravies, etc. Full of minerals and gelatin, which is good for gut health. And it stretches meat. I think you can ask for bones from your butcher, fairly cheaply. Also keep bones from the meat you eat, even chewed on ones. You cook it for long enough to kill any germs or enzymes or other grossness.
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#19 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:10 AM
 
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I did some digging online and was reading about the biopsy as the ultimate test for Celiac's. I definitely do not want him biopsied unless he absolutely needs it. He doesn't seem to have any of the more common symptoms. He is growing like a weed, his poops are normal, he doesn't complain of belly aches, is rarely fussy, (stubborn, but that is a different thread) he has a great appetite, etc. His only symptom is his cough at night and occasional insomnia.
!
I know it's expensive, but that just screams dairy sensitivity to me (respiratory stuff in general, if it is indeed food related). I would expect a lot more gi problems with gluten. Could he have environmental allergy stuff going on? To pets or dust mites? Do you have carpet?
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#20 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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I did NAET with my DD. She would be on me and the chiro used little vials of allergens for the testing. My DH had done this and found it helpful. The chiro supposedly cleared my DD of dairy. I still held back on any dairy exposure. I had her blood tests done a few months later and her IgE levels are extremely high. I haven't returned with her as I know that he would just tell me it can take many more visits, or that it was cleared but reversed.
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#21 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 09:56 AM
 
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What exactly is she thinking are Celiac symptoms? Do you guys have family history or something? Celiac can be really ambigous but it sure wouldn't be my first guess, especially since he is not having any growth issues. Sounds like dairy to me as well.

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#22 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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She was thinking that he has Celiac based on her AK testing only. He also had some pretty severe diarrhea and vomiting when he was smaller and he also had constipation issues when he was a newborn and EBF which she really raised her eyebrows about. I realize it is very rare for a newborn to have constipation, but he would strain and strain and cry and finally push out a very hard, very dry nugget that was the color and smell of breast milk, but definitely not runny bf poo.

We do have cats, but they are not allowed in the bedroom. There is no carpeting anywhere in the house, and I don't even have any rugs. Just hardwood floors, and we wear slippers to keep our feet warm.

As for the oatmeal, she said that Irish oats from Ireland are not grown next to wheat, so there is no cross pollination and therefore are gluten free. Is that not true? Do they not grow wheat in Ireland?

The more I read here, and the more I read online, I the more I am feeling uncomfortable with her practices and advice. She is the only naturopath that takes Medicaid so I can't go see anyone else. I guess the only thing to do is start taking foods out on our own and keeping track. I think I will keep the gluten out for a few weeks (months?) and see how that goes. If his coughing doesn't improve, I will put gluten back in and take dairy out.

Honestly, I don't think I am going to restrict his bananas and mangoes and berries though. He doesn't really eat mangoes, but bananas are such a staple here, and they are such an easy snack for me to give him. Blueberries are also a super easy breakfast thing for him in his cereal. I will keep strawberries out though, as he was vomiting with them this past summer. If the gluten and dairy don't pan out, then we will move on to other foods.

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#23 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:10 PM
 
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Applied kinesiology, like all medicine, is only as good as the practitioner. We have a good chiro... but I have heard that some folks have not fared as well.
This. And honestly you shouldn't need to believe them. You generally can feel the difference in your strength when an allergen is introduced. Either you can resist or not. It really is that simple.

And the energy of the practitioner can absolutely change the outcome. I prefer the testing is done double blind...but sometimes that's not possible.
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#24 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:17 PM
 
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She was thinking that he has Celiac based on her AK testing only. He also had some pretty severe diarrhea and vomiting when he was smaller and he also had constipation issues when he was a newborn and EBF which she really raised her eyebrows about. I realize it is very rare for a newborn to have constipation, but he would strain and strain and cry and finally push out a very hard, very dry nugget that was the color and smell of breast milk, but definitely not runny bf poo.
IT is not at ALL rare for an infant to have constipation issues. The more mamas we are seeing with food allergies, the more compromised a baby gets and structure can even be affected. You are actually not even in the minority here. Some go the other end of the spectrum and have runny, mucusy, bloody stool and some are constipated.

We do have cats, but they are not allowed in the bedroom. There is no carpeting anywhere in the house, and I don't even have any rugs. Just hardwood floors, and we wear slippers to keep our feet warm.

As for the oatmeal, she said that Irish oats from Ireland are not grown next to wheat, so there is no cross pollination and therefore are gluten free. Is that not true? Do they not grow wheat in Ireland?
people with celiac disease generally have an issue with oats (unrelated to the gluten....they are very coarse and difficult for many with any form of IBD)

The more I read here, and the more I read online, I the more I am feeling uncomfortable with her practices and advice. She is the only naturopath that takes Medicaid so I can't go see anyone else. I guess the only thing to do is start taking foods out on our own and keeping track. I think I will keep the gluten out for a few weeks (months?) and see how that goes. If his coughing doesn't improve, I will put gluten back in and take dairy out.
I haven't read the thread so I cannot comment on her practices aside from the AK, but honestly you SHOULD be an active participant in your healthcare. I wouldn't ditch her all that fast because as the very least she is someone who is alternatively minded that has the ability to order testing of YOUR choosing. She works for YOU. Being informed and an active participant in your care will not only empower you, it will likely make her job easier.

Honestly, I don't think I am going to restrict his bananas and mangoes and berries though. He doesn't really eat mangoes, but bananas are such a staple here, and they are such an easy snack for me to give him. Blueberries are also a super easy breakfast thing for him in his cereal. I will keep strawberries out though, as he was vomiting with them this past summer. If the gluten and dairy don't pan out, then we will move on to other foods.

Good luck. I will go back and read the rest of the thread and see if I have any more unsolicited advice.
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#25 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:21 PM
 
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We haven't done NAET, though I am currently leaning toward starting acupuncture. My chiro's instruction was to "stay away from foods that are bad for you". So I crystal test continually, stay away from what's off limits, wait for that particular food to start passing for us, wait awhile longer (sometimes months) and then trial the food. No reaction? Then I put in into our food rotation. Sometimes however, the food will crystal test as acceptable, then we try the food, and the crystal changes its mind. Its like our bodies forgot that the food was not safe and had to be reminded or something.
I don't crystal test (not because I'm opposed-I just never have) but I will say that I have experienced this too. I think a certain amount of healing happens and the allergen is removed for a long enough period of time that the body does reset. Often though I can then reintro and test within a day or so and get what I feel to be a very accurate response.

It's not foolproof-nothing is. It is a decent guide though, and since it's free....why not?
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#26 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:33 PM
 
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She did seem surprised that dairy was ok for him. Honestly, it would be extremely hard on our budget to cut out dairy and soy. We receive WIC and it is a significant addition to our grocery budget. Replacing the cheese and milk that he consumes with alternatives that would cost more just isn't feasible right now. Obviously if he does end up intolerant to dairy and soy, I will do it, but I just don't know how. Cutting gluten and eggs out is going to be a pretty big stress already to our budget.

I tried to get him to take the CLO tonight for the first time, and I mixed it with a little maple syrup (she recommended this to get him to take it), but the syrup wouldn't stay mixed long enough to get it into him and he got maybe half of it into him. I took the rest and am going to try mixing it in with some oatmeal or yogurt in the morning to see if that will help him to get it in.
Yeah, I'm back again. So listen...can you try putting a bit into a straw and just dropping it into his mouth? You have more control than you do with a spoon and all the kids I have ever tried this with have loved it.


See, this is what was making me feel really strange about it. I don't understand how just naming the food gave any feedback to her. I think that is what made me really feel uncomfortable about the whole appointment the most. She did say that when we come back in two weeks, I should try to bring foods with me that he eats that she didn't test so that she can do the rest. She said that having the foods with me would make it easier for her.
It's all energetic. Having the food present will be a stronger reaad in that sense, but it's not necessary to have it there to have accurate results.

Any idea how long I should do the dietary changes to start to see some changes in him?

Also, one of the things that really made me feel strange was when she said his immune system was very compromised. This kid is NEVER sick. He has never had an ear infection, only maybe two colds since he was born, and the only "childhood" illness that he has had was Roseola. He has not been vaxed for anything either. When I said he never is sick, she said, she was meant that she just tested his immune system and found it very compromised. It really felt like a reprimand of me questioning her, although I couldn't tell you exactly why.
If his gut is compromised it will cause one of two things to happen. Suppression in the immune system (he'd be sick all the time) or an overactive immune system (and he'd never be sick.) Don't be too shocked or feel uncomfortable. That's how most autoimmune diseases present (not saying he has one) but many folks with autoimmune diseases NEVER get sick as their body is always in overdrive and fighting. Germs dont' stand a chance.

She said that he most likely has Celiac disease, and I asked her if there was a blood test for that and she said there was and she asked if I wanted the test. I said no, that I would wait and see if I saw any changes with altering his diet. Now I almost wish I had asked for the blood test, just to make me feel a little better about the testing that she did.
You still can. The blood tests require consumption of gluten to be accurate-and even then they aren't great. She can test his sec. IgA and IgG for gluten as well as the TTG. If you really want it done-do it before you cut gluten.

We did go grocery shopping tonight with the little that I had left on my food stamp card and got some gluten free flours to make some pancakes, breads, etc. I also picked up some Irish oats, gluten free animal crackers, pretzels and some corn chips (not healthy, I know, but easy) for him. For dinner, we had refried beans and cheese in corn tortillas (dang, I hate corn tortillas...), and he seemed to love it, so we have begun.
There are alot of inexpensive foods you can make! You should start a thread if you want ideas!

Honestly, I think that I am going to eat the foods that I have left in the house so that he at least gets less of the offending items. I can't afford to just toss that much groceries. Maybe I will eat them in the evening so I can digest them during the night when he doesn't nurse as much to lessen the effect.
That won't make a difference. I do understand though. Breastmilk is made of your blood and the higher protein allergens (like gluten) will circulate for weeks.

This is going to be a long and difficult road for us.
It may be, but you will learn alot about yourself. Luckily you can come here and we all understand.
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#27 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:39 PM
 
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This would send me running. If she thinks he has Celiac's disease, he shouldn't be eating Irish oats. Heck, some Celiac's cannot even tolerate gf oats. It is not a blood test that says that one has Celiac disease. It can show elevated antibody levels that would indicate the need for a biopsy, that is the gold standard in traditional diagnosis, not a blood test. Besides the fact that blood tests are horribly unreliable for small kids. She shouldn't be throwing around words like that so haphazardly without a little bit of study into it. If he has Celiac's it is nothing to mess around w/ and I find that scary.
I hear this, I do. But no way in hell would I biopsy a child and if that meant that we didn't have a diagnosis so be it. IF he improves off gluten there are still tests that can be done to support that possibility-just not a biopsy and no ND I know (not saying they don't exist) is going to be gunning for a biopsy. If mama is anti-vax and doesn't want a blood test I can see the ND saying just make the changes and see what happens.

My dd has a diagnosis based on blood tests. I have an awesome doc and made it very clear that the biopsy wasn't gonna happen (yes, please go cut a piece of my childs already compromised intestines) so I asked for several specific tests and based on her values, the antibodies, the genetic marker etc. she was diagnosed. There are many different ways to look at this situation. IF the doc was following mom's non-interventive preferences I can see this being exactly how it would go. She did offer the test.
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#28 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 12:58 PM
 
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I hear this, I do. But no way in hell would I biopsy a child and if that meant that we didn't have a diagnosis so be it. IF he improves off gluten there are still tests that can be done to support that possibility-just not a biopsy and no ND I know (not saying they don't exist) is going to be gunning for a biopsy. If mama is anti-vax and doesn't want a blood test I can see the ND saying just make the changes and see what happens.

My dd has a diagnosis based on blood tests. I have an awesome doc and made it very clear that the biopsy wasn't gonna happen (yes, please go cut a piece of my childs already compromised intestines) so I asked for several specific tests and based on her values, the antibodies, the genetic marker etc. she was diagnosed. There are many different ways to look at this situation. IF the doc was following mom's non-interventive preferences I can see this being exactly how it would go. She did offer the test.
Just to clarify. We made a choice not to go that road either. However, with her saying that a blood test is simply going to diagnose Celiac's and suggesting they use Irish oats would make me wary. Seems to me there should be some clarification in all of that. Using enterolab testing and elimination diet is what we have done here. Not that I was advocating for the use of biopsy. For your daughter to be diagnosed on a blood test seems to be pretty rare. I wish we had more practitioners that would look into more besides just the biopsy.

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#29 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 01:23 PM
 
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I had the same reaction to the oats...that's questionable.

Dd was diagnosed based on a number of factors. Not many docs even think to do genetic testing. It's expensive and not covered by insurance for the most part. But, we also didn't *just* do standard blood testing. I asked for a TON and based on all of those together she was willing to diagnose. It didn't hurt that the first time she saw dd her exact words were, "Well, she CLEARLY has celiac disease." It didn't take much when her IgG, IgG, IgE, TTG, Ferritin, B-12, Anti-gliadin antibody, genetic testing, CBC etc all came back consistent with CD. Remember that my dd was a classic presentation. That coupled with the fact that she was birthed at home, unvaxxed, we use homeopathic medicine pretty exclusively and I had worked so hard to breastfeed I think she knew there was no way I was going to consent to a biopsy. Like I said I was very clear before doing testing that there was no way regardless of the results that there was going to be what I considered to be gratuitous intervention. The biopsy doesn't help heal anything-ya know? That said, I also don't really put alot of stock into diagnoses. I couldn't care less if the label was on her record. Most people do not feel that way.
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#30 of 63 Old 11-22-2008, 02:01 PM
 
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As for the oatmeal, she said that Irish oats from Ireland are not grown next to wheat, so there is no cross pollination and therefore are gluten free. Is that not true? Do they not grow wheat in Ireland?
There was an x-con study done with TONS of brands of oatmeal (I'm sorry, I cannot remember the link) that showed that even high quality Irish steel cut oats were contaminated most of the time. Some of the batches were free of contamination but many (most?) had some gluten x-con and obviously you can never test this yourself before eating so they are not safe for someone who needs to strictly avoid gluten. I know someone who is gluten intollerant yet has never found the need to use GF oats and others can't do any oats so there is a spectrum of course. You just need to be aware that if you are eating any oats other than GF oats you most likely will be consuming some gluten as well. And to specifically answer your question....I don't know the growning process in Ireland but it's not just about where they are grown - it's also about harvesting, transporting, processing, packaging, etc. on shared equipment.

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