Butt Dimples (aka mid line issues - spun off from tongue-tie thread) - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 173 Old 02-04-2009, 01:31 PM
 
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This is really really interesting. I don't have a "butt dimple" but I was told by a chiropractor that I most definitely have spina bifida occulta. I also have KP on my arms and my upper chest. No other mid-line defects that I know of...and no issues with food allergies that I know of either.

However...this is really really interesting. Wow.
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#62 of 173 Old 02-04-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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OP Same thing here with J, Mri and all at 4 weeks. He has a Y buttcrack as well. He has spina bifida occulta.

He is allergic to dairy and I have a feeling other stuff as well, thinking about getting him tested.
WOW I am glad to have found this thread! Very interesting...

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#63 of 173 Old 02-04-2009, 01:48 PM
 
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i have KP too, is that related to vit b def?
Me too..... this really is interesting.
J has a gap right inbetween his two front terth but non eof the others are in yet so I wonder what they will do....

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#64 of 173 Old 02-13-2009, 11:52 PM
 
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Is KP related to blocked detox pathways? Cause it sure seems like it would be. If it's supposedly helped by A, D, & essential fatty acids would that be a clue? Anyone?
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#65 of 173 Old 02-14-2009, 01:30 AM
 
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I haven't come across vitamin A yet. EFA's point to glutathione, vitamin D to... not much that's helpful.

Maybe if your body was overloaded making glutathione (does caffeine affect you?) you would be using up all your EFAs and so create a deficiency that leads to KP?

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#66 of 173 Old 02-14-2009, 01:38 AM
 
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I haven't come across vitamin A yet. EFA's point to glutathione, vitamin D to... not much that's helpful.

Maybe if your body was overloaded making glutathione (does caffeine affect you?) you would be using up all your EFAs and so create a deficiency that leads to KP?
I used to drink coffee all day and night too - I craved it, but it would not keep me up whatsoever. Ditto chocolate. Does that fit?
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#67 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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I'm reviving this for a question. I was telling my brother about midline issues (I asked him about his teeth since he's got Poland's syndrome) so I re-read this. Now I'm confused. Am I looking for a sacral pit at the top of the butt crack (base of spine) or at the bottom of the butt crack, closer to the anus? I saw a couple different things in here, hence the new confusion. I only looked at the top of my kids for indents.... and I'm wondering if I missed something.

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#68 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 03:23 PM
 
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I thought it was supposed to be above the butt crack... but DD has a tiny dimple kind of in the middle of the crack, so I'm not sure.

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#69 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 03:33 PM
 
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I've been talking about a dimple above the crack, and just ASSumed everyone else was, too.
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#70 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 03:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kortner View Post
KP here too, and DS (nearly 1 year!) has it as well, mostly on his lower legs. They are terribly rough. I've heard the Vit. A thing too, but haven't seen a change in mine since starting CLO. Crazy.

CS - I think you've got a dimpled daughter! DS's is off to one side and very deep, but doesn't split open. It's below where his 'crack' ends, but way above where his anus is.
This is the one that made me wonder about the location of the pit.
Also, I'm still trying to find a list that has all the potential midline defects. Anyone have a link?

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#71 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 03:48 PM
 
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I used to drink coffee all day and night too - I craved it, but it would not keep me up whatsoever. Ditto chocolate. Does that fit?
My husband has a very high caffeine tolerance, both his parents did/do as well. And he's the one with KP between the two of us, and I am the one with slow phase 1 and phase 2 detoxification. Somehow this will eventually make sense... I just don't know how yet.
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#72 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been talking about a dimple above the crack, and just ASSumed everyone else was, too.
this

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#73 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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VERY interesting thread! I have kp, sbo, and only after DS's surgical birth 3 yrs. ago found out I have a RAGING surgical tape adhesive allergy. I only came across this thread because I was looking up allergy stuff for my poor DS who is having some serious stuffiness lately. I had allergies as a kid, but nothing ever showed up on those prick tests, so I wonder if food/leaky gut issues were too "fringe" back then.
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#74 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 07:38 PM
 
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I thought it was supposed to be above the butt crack... but DD has a tiny dimple kind of in the middle of the crack, so I'm not sure.

Weird.

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#75 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 09:34 PM
 
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Am I looking for a sacral pit at the top of the butt crack (base of spine) or at the bottom of the butt crack, closer to the anus? I saw a couple different things in here, hence the new confusion. I only looked at the top of my kids for indents.... and I'm wondering if I missed something.
I did some online research and it can be in the crack or above. In the crack is more common. See here for a good description of sacral pits and what to look for http://drgreene.blogs.com/drgreeneco...healthyba.html

Of course, there is no mention of allergy connections - its mainly focusing on whether the dimple indicates underlying structural abnormalities and warrant ultrasounds, etc. I also searched for images of "sacral dimples" on google and that helped to clarify what I was looking for. I am waiting for DS to wake up from his nap to check his bum now that I know what I am looking for.

Also wanted to say that my bumps on my arm also went away after going on an ED (GFCF too) and I didn't even notice until this reading this thread and I felt my arms. Smooth as a baby's bum! For the first time since I was a kid! Wow!

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#76 of 173 Old 02-23-2009, 11:16 PM
 
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This is the one that made me wonder about the location of the pit.
Also, I'm still trying to find a list that has all the potential midline defects. Anyone have a link?
Sorry if that was unclear... I meant below the very top of his crack - it's way above his anus - right at the base of the spine (guess that's why it's a sacral dimple). Our CST said it's common?!
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#77 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 12:04 AM
 
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Holy cow! I'm totally new here, but look at my siggy! Are tongue-tie and allergies really related? We got his tongue-tie corrected 2 weeks ago... do you think that will help his allergies?

Our theory with this is that because DS could not suck well, he often tired before getting to the hindmilk... he was getting too much foremilk and would react more easily to anything I ate. About a month ago I had to exclusively pump for a couple days to let my nipples heal from his poor nursing... his poo instantly got better even though my diet hadn't changed. Better... not great though.

So can supplements help now? If he was deficient in utero, can it be fixed now?
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#78 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 12:34 AM
 
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There are lots of different ways that these things seem to overlap, so each of us is trying to tease out what's involved with us and our kids and then figure out what to do.

Moms deficient in vitamin A and/or folate (deficient in how much is available for their bodies to use, which can be very different from what they consume if they've got digestive/other health issues or if they need more than most people) have kids with things like tongue ties, sacral dimples, and various other, sometimes quite subtle, midline problems. A posterior tongue tie can cause digestive problems by not allowing peristalsis to start properly (have you considered cranial-sacral to help re-train the tongue movements now that your LO's TT has been clipped?), and then weird gut dysbiosis can occur, which is bad for absorption and utilization of nutrients.

Moms are rarely deficient in just one vitamin, so kids (definitely mine!) can start with a lot of things out of balance, and may be prone to the same types of imbalances as mom was, which seem to manifest more prominently in the kids than in the moms (we seem to heal together, getting clues as to what's going on from our kids and then applying them to both of us).

And we've been having cool discussions on how detoxification problems can lead to food intolerances, and again, if we've got nutrient issues to start with, at least a couple detoxification pathways very well may be involved.

I got into this (the Allergies forum) mostly due to detoxification issues (and I recognize that the leaky gut/gut healing stuff we've also talked about is more of an issue for other people than it is for me, everyone needs to figure out what their own balance is), and my kids (they're 2 and 5 now) have/had lots of nutrient deficiencies, and I think I can un-do most of the problems we've got, and ultimately be healthier and happier for having gone through this.
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#79 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 01:54 AM
 
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Holy cow! I'm totally new here, but look at my siggy! Are tongue-tie and allergies really related? We got his tongue-tie corrected 2 weeks ago... do you think that will help his allergies?

Our theory with this is that because DS could not suck well, he often tired before getting to the hindmilk... he was getting too much foremilk and would react more easily to anything I ate. About a month ago I had to exclusively pump for a couple days to let my nipples heal from his poor nursing... his poo instantly got better even though my diet hadn't changed. Better... not great though.

So can supplements help now? If he was deficient in utero, can it be fixed now?
Going along with what Tanya said, we've talked about how an excess of foremilk can make the gut sensitive, thus increasing food allergy problems.

Healing a damaged gut is the goal for all of us here, and hopefully with time and healing, allergies can resolve. But I don't think it's not as simple as fixing a damaged gut and seeing the allergies disappear. The immune system has been primed to react to certain foods (in the case of an IgE or "true" allergy) and so the immune system needs time to relearn or reset.
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#80 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 02:27 AM
 
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Ok so back for more!

I am going to have to get a chance to talk to our ped in more depth soon about all this. He is India Indian and the other day while we were in to see if J had an ear infection ( and he does, the first one I have ever dealt with 2 kids and four years into motherhood, the day before his first birthday!) When he walked in he asked me if I had lost alot of weight. ( I had just been to to gym, I have the cardio endurance of a snail so I want to work on that!) I told him that J is still 99% EBF still and that at a year always I always seem to drop alot of weight ( I am a bit smaller than pre pregancy, about 125) He asked if I took vitamens and I said no. He said I need to get on a good muti and take addtional B complex, then noted on the dry spots I have had on the corners of my mouth that haven't gone away for about a month and my bumpy arms. Hmmm he is an allergist as well so i KNOW he would be all over a study about this!

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#81 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 02:36 AM
 
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How can you tell if a palate is higher than normal?

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#82 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 02:40 AM
 
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whoMe, how did you get started in the detoxing pathways stuff? I am very interested.

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#83 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 02:57 AM
 
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How can you tell if a palate is higher than normal?
One thing that's not normal (apparently) is that there isn't supposed to be a line down the middle (from front of mouth towards the throat). When I run my finger across the top of my mouth, it feels like an arch, the kind in cathedrals, with a bump I can feel where the two halves of the arch come together. Some people also have a bubble palate, which I think is an abrupt upward, round shape in the middle of the top of the mouth.
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#84 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 03:01 AM
 
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whoMe, how did you get started in the detoxing pathways stuff? I am very interested.
After about 20 months of trying to figure out the cause of dd's sensitivities, I got my MTHFR gene tested as a result of these midline defect threads.

And the rest kinda snowballed

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#85 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 04:30 AM
 
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What a great thread...you really do learn something new every day on MDC.

I was told by my chiro when I was about 16 that I had spinda bifida occulta. I had been suffering with some sever lower back pain, which is how we found out.

Now...my 16 month old ds, he has a sacral dimple with a slight little tuft of hair. We are also having issues with his eating solids right now. He is still 100% ebf. He wants to eat solids, but he can't. He starts to choking with even the teeny tinyest piece of food. What he usually does is just suck on the piece of food, then spit it out when he is done. The most we get is maybe a bite or two at each meal (each bite is about half the size of a dime...and he still chokes). We just got a refferal for an OT from his pedi for this. She thinks he may not know how to swallow, but the more I am reading I wonder if it could be he has a pallet/tongue tie issue (dh was tongue tied when he was born and had it clipped). Would I be able to tell without having his pedi point it out to me? Would this be related?

Also about the midline stuff...someone here mentioned something about teeth. I have noticed how weird it is that on his bottom teeth, the two front ones make like a v shape, pointing towards the back of his mouth. Does this have anything to do with what you are talking about?

The other thing is rashes. Ds will break out in random rashes that will last from just a few days to 2 weeks. You can see the most recent one one my blog is my siggy...it is about the 5th or 6th post down. It lasted like that on his back and stomach for about two weeks. It is gone from there, buy now it is on his little bottom/thighs. It doesn't cause him any discomfort or anything, but we have noooo idea what it is. I am reading that info about allergies, etc., so I am just trying to piece together this puzzle right now.

Hmmm.....one more thing....about the midline stuff. When dd was born she had like this skin tag on her chest, on her left collar bone right at the end of it. When she was about 2 1/2 or 3, it became infected and we were told that it was an infected cyst in her chest wall, and we wound up getting it surgically removed. We have had to do this twice now, and every now and then she will have it 'flare' up, become red and inflammed and tender to touch, but then goes away. No of her dr's can figure out why it does that, or what exactly it is. She will also break out in random rashes that will last 1-2 weeks like ds, but I don't recall her having a sacral dimple (I will check tomorrow morning though).

I'm sorry about being all over the map...I just have a ton of questions.
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#86 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 09:52 AM
 
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One thing that's not normal (apparently) is that there isn't supposed to be a line down the middle (from front of mouth towards the throat). When I run my finger across the top of my mouth, it feels like an arch, the kind in cathedrals, with a bump I can feel where the two halves of the arch come together. Some people also have a bubble palate, which I think is an abrupt upward, round shape in the middle of the top of the mouth.
I need to find a normal mouth for comparison. Using the above, DD2 has a high arch and so does DS, and so do I. Though DS's and DD2's are smooth and cavernous (though with a line). Mine has sort of a bubble down at the top. I'm trying to think of a good analogy -- like it is cavernous but has a dip down in the middle. I haven't looked at DD1's, but she's already in school (and had a palate expander a couple years ago; not sure if that's going to affect it). And haven't looked at DH's either. But maybe we do have some midline issues (see, we're not the exception! yippee).

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#87 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 10:31 AM
 
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OMG, I wonder if *I* have spina bifida occulta. I've had back problems since I was a kid, and during one doctor's visit I remember them doing an x-ray and telling my mom that one of my vertebrae was turned or twisted. My chiro has wondered if maybe I had/have a mild form of scoliosis. And just now I found a definition of SBO that says that one or more vertebrae are malformed, and that sometimes there is no dimple or hair or any indication that you have it.

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#88 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 10:38 AM
 
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One thing that's not normal (apparently) is that there isn't supposed to be a line down the middle (from front of mouth towards the throat). When I run my finger across the top of my mouth, it feels like an arch, the kind in cathedrals, with a bump I can feel where the two halves of the arch come together. Some people also have a bubble palate, which I think is an abrupt upward, round shape in the middle of the top of the mouth.
I thought mine was high but after checking I do have a ridge and a bubble at the back.... will have to check j somehow...

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#89 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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but the more I am reading I wonder if it could be he has a pallet/tongue tie issue (dh was tongue tied when he was born and had it clipped). Would I be able to tell without having his pedi point it out to me? Would this be related?

Also about the midline stuff...someone here mentioned something about teeth. I have noticed how weird it is that on his bottom teeth, the two front ones make like a v shape, pointing towards the back of his mouth. Does this have anything to do with what you are talking about?
I haven't finished reading your post. But, wanted to link the video and photos about the tongue tie and v shape teeth. http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...eth-and-tongue

Here is the original 'tongue tie' thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ght=tongue+tie


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#90 of 173 Old 02-24-2009, 06:58 PM
 
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Pat...thank you, thank you, thank you for those links!! Ds does have that same v shape of his teeth...it is actually a bit more severe then in the pictures of the first link you posted.

I am reading the tongue tied thread right now!

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