Butt Dimples (aka mid line issues - spun off from tongue-tie thread) - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-12-2010, 01:33 PM
 
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I started this journey thinking I must have a food allergy or a metals problem.  Can't find either.  Now I think I just have some nutrient deficiencies.  

 

Probably started with high-needs DS, and not sleeping and eating for a year, running down my adrenals and nutrient stores.  Now I have a laid-back toddler, rested adrenals that seem fine, and mostly well-stocked nutrient stores.  But I still think I am low in something.  Maybe I was always low, or maybe pregnancy depleted it.  


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Old 11-12-2010, 03:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post




Mwahahahaha.... that's what all of us thought when we started this journey.  (Ok, maybe not all of us... but I bet a good majority of us.) 





yeahthat.gif
Then I saw carefully chosen nutrients change my personality, discovered a mess of toxic goo *very* well sequestered in my gut, discovered that my meat cravings really were outside of the range of normal, that the combo of enzymes and probiotics stabilized my mood and and and. I think most of us here can pretty safely say at least 90% of the stuff 'everyone else' is dealing with here doesn't apply to us.

And now that ds is here and I can see what a sacral dimple looks like, I've discovered that hey look, I have one of those too. orngtongue.gif. If there's one life lesson I've learned on this journey, it's that just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there or even that you're looking for the right stuff.

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Old 11-12-2010, 07:44 PM
 
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nak

 

i have been reluctant to post here because it makes me sad with a panicky feeling in my stomach. Baby girl has all of the midline issues even though i tried so hard during pregnancy.

icky tear duct that CST is helping with. posterior tt - although not as bad as ds2.  upper frenulum, but not thick. and something weird with sacrum area.  her cleave (is that what you call iy in polite company?) is really high, and at times i think her spine goes to the right of it.

 

honestly i feel like a failure. 

 

emotions could be happening though because i think DD is allergic to chocolate - pls not another 4 years without chocolate - first time she has had green mucousy poop.


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Old 11-12-2010, 08:49 PM
 
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nak

 

i have been reluctant to post here because it makes me sad with a panicky feeling in my stomach. Baby girl has all of the midline issues even though i tried so hard during pregnancy.

icky tear duct that CST is helping with. posterior tt - although not as bad as ds2.  upper frenulum, but not thick. and something weird with sacrum area.  her cleave (is that what you call iy in polite company?) is really high, and at times i think her spine goes to the right of it.

 

honestly i feel like a failure. 

 

emotions could be happening though because i think DD is allergic to chocolate - pls not another 4 years without chocolate - first time she has had green mucousy poop.


:hug :hug :hug

Don't beat yourself up!  I totally know what you're feeling right now.  I'm trying hard to just ignore a lot of ds's stuff, and think of it as symptoms that things aren't ideal, yet.  But really, what *is* ideal?  what's actually attainable, given our starting points and the world we live in?  And what would things be like without all the work we've been doing?  Ds has what looks like an upper frenulum issue, and his teeth are coming in with a gap.  But dd was the exact same way, and that gap closed itself.  I'm putting blinders on and assuming it'll correct itself.  When it comes down to it, I don't *really* know how to id a tongue tie if he has one (guessing not, but not confident with that guess).  And he had mucous poop waaaay sooner than dd ever did.  And has been pretty constipated his entire life.  But I'm not seeing it as allergy symptoms.  I'm seeing it as symptoms of healing, as my guide to know what to do next.

 

Who else was sensitive to chocolate?  (Any chance it could be you, not her, and so easier to fix?)


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Old 11-20-2010, 02:20 PM
 
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Wow, I just read through this whole thread and my head is spinning. I'm stunned. I wonder if this is part of the puzzle of what is going on with my 2 and a half year old.

 

So, for those of us who process things slowly, is this a sacral dimple? she has a typical butt, and her crack ends like normal. But then above it, about 1/4 of an inch, it's like her crack starts again, for about 1/2 inch. It's closed with skin. Is that a sacral dimple? I wonder why no one has ever noticed it before, except for me. I asked her doc about it once, but he didn't even look at it and told me it was fine. So, I thought it was fine.

 

I don't believe she is tongue tied. She did have trouble nursing, and the lactation consultants I saw said they had never seen a baby nurse like she did before. She had very bad reflux. Anyway, when she sticks her tongue out, it goes to the bottom of her chin, so I think her tongue is OK. Her teeth came in late, and the bottom ones all point inwards. Her teeth don't make a v, though.

 

She is allergic to latex.

 

She has had failure to thrive, and microcephaly. Minor global developmental delays. Low and uneven tone. She was handed at a very early age, and went from being hypertonic to hypotonic. She has very slightly low set ears.

 

When she lays her hands on a table, she does that thing Spock does, with the middle 2 fingers splaying out. I don't know what that's called. When I start bringing that up, is when her docs all shut down and decide that I'm just crazy and they give me the "there there high strung mama, she's fine." speech.

 

Even though I notice all of these things, she appears normal looking and adorable to strangers, so she doesn't have very obvious facial features of a child with severe genetic issues. I've been puzzled. She appears healthy, but she doesn't grow or develop like other kids do, and I don't know why.

 

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Old 11-22-2010, 07:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post

Wow, I just read through this whole thread and my head is spinning. I'm stunned. I wonder if this is part of the puzzle of what is going on with my 2 and a half year old.

 

So, for those of us who process things slowly, is this a sacral dimple? she has a typical butt, and her crack ends like normal. But then above it, about 1/4 of an inch, it's like her crack starts again, for about 1/2 inch. It's closed with skin. Is that a sacral dimple? I wonder why no one has ever noticed it before, except for me. I asked her doc about it once, but he didn't even look at it and told me it was fine. So, I thought it was fine.

 

I don't believe she is tongue tied. She did have trouble nursing, and the lactation consultants I saw said they had never seen a baby nurse like she did before. She had very bad reflux. Anyway, when she sticks her tongue out, it goes to the bottom of her chin, so I think her tongue is OK. Her teeth came in late, and the bottom ones all point inwards. Her teeth don't make a v, though.

 

She is allergic to latex.

 

She has had failure to thrive, and microcephaly. Minor global developmental delays. Low and uneven tone. She was handed at a very early age, and went from being hypertonic to hypotonic. She has very slightly low set ears.

 

When she lays her hands on a table, she does that thing Spock does, with the middle 2 fingers splaying out. I don't know what that's called. When I start bringing that up, is when her docs all shut down and decide that I'm just crazy and they give me the "there there high strung mama, she's fine." speech.

 

Even though I notice all of these things, she appears normal looking and adorable to strangers, so she doesn't have very obvious facial features of a child with severe genetic issues. I've been puzzled. She appears healthy, but she doesn't grow or develop like other kids do, and I don't know why.

 


a posterior tie has nothing to do with how far they can stick it out...it's how well they can elevate the middle. Most IBCLC's are just learning about PTT so it's not overly suprising that they would have missed it.  Sorry!

 

I can tell you that my dd went from hypotonia to hypertonia on a dime.  It was very interesting. 

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Old 11-22-2010, 07:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FireWithin View Post

nak

 

i have been reluctant to post here because it makes me sad with a panicky feeling in my stomach. Baby girl has all of the midline issues even though i tried so hard during pregnancy.

icky tear duct that CST is helping with. posterior tt - although not as bad as ds2.  upper frenulum, but not thick. and something weird with sacrum area.  her cleave (is that what you call iy in polite company?) is really high, and at times i think her spine goes to the right of it.

 

honestly i feel like a failure. 

 

emotions could be happening though because i think DD is allergic to chocolate - pls not another 4 years without chocolate - first time she has had green mucousy poop.



mama...sounds like you got things RIGHT.  Remember...these issues tend to get worse with each subsequent child so the fact that what you are seeing is BETTER than in your previous child is amazing.  Truly.  You're doing everything wonderfully.  I understand the emotions, but IIRC you didn't have this all figured out when you got pregnant...it's a process and clearly there's been improvement.  I'm so very proud of you.

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Old 11-23-2010, 06:29 PM
 
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Oh Panser thank you. You are such a great supportive friend, as are the other mamas here. I am feeling a bit better since I have a skeleton plan for baby. I'm going to keep on learning and healing my family.

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Old 12-01-2010, 07:26 PM
 
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Lady Lilya, I just did your tongue/roof of the mouth test and could't get anywhere near it! I do have a sacral dimple (as do my kiddos) and we all have multiple food sensitivities, yeast/thrush, and eczema! I have also been diagnosed with low B levels and adrenal issues.

I have never heard of these problems and the mid-line connection until today. Wow, it's making sense... Love MDC!


I could have written this post, as we have all of this and I never realized there was a midline connection until today. But, so what? (not confrontationally, I really mean, what now?) So now I know there are even more things "wrong" with my kids. What do I do with that info? How does it help me? I'm so very frustrated with this road of discovery! irked.gif


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Old 12-01-2010, 07:45 PM
 
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well, with this information I addressed mechanical problems (revisions of the frenuli), added structural support to help with compensatory behaviors and patched up any holes I could in the biochemistry knowing what I do about how/why this happens.  I also worked with the results of the situation (yeast, food allergies) to move past them.  If you look at it as a puzzle it really helps understand quite a lot about your genes.  I also use homeopathy to fill in the gaps in terms of genetic inheritance and optimize potential.  The knowledge gained helps more than the kiddos, it tends to help parents as well.

 

I really see this stuff on a weekly basis and can say that it's not about what's "wrong" so much as it's about gathering information and creating space to heal.

 

I know it's incredibly frustrating to find yet another path to pursue, but it can be a big relief when things come together.

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Old 12-02-2010, 02:36 PM
 
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Thanks again for responding to my frustration, Panserbjorne. I think that's the trouble for me, that makes it so frustrating. I don't see things coming together. Not at all. I am pursuing fixing the mechanical problems, thank goodness, thanks to you ladies and the dental forum for making me aware of them. But it seems like I can't see the forest, despite desperately trying to see past the trees. :( I am beginning to look into the MTHFR (is that right?) stuff due to posts here, though, so maybe that will clear some trees? :)


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Old 12-02-2010, 05:10 PM
 
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Does anyone know if pectum excavatum would be considered a midline issue?


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Old 12-02-2010, 05:23 PM
 
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Yes, though there are probably doctors that wouldn't lump them together. The development of the sternum  happens in the first trimester...at roughly the same point where the tongue separates from the floor of the mouth.  This is when just about all midline issues actually occur as far as I understand it.

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Old 12-03-2010, 06:44 PM
 
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gabbyraja, I definitely recommend asking your Dr. to test you for MTHFR (just check with your insurance co. first - it can be some pricey bloodwork I think!).  I asked my doc to test me, and she did, and I have it!  Would have never known if I didn't find these msg boards and research it on my own.  After that I took my baby to Dr. Dahl in NYC (ENT) who confirmed a subtle tongue tie (which at this point is not worth clipping because she doesn't feel it will affect her speech, but should have been clipped months ago when we were having trouble nursing.)  I have an appointment in a week with a perinatologist to discuss the MTHFR and future pregnancies.  I just read someone's post that says that these things can get worse with subsequent kids.  Why is that exactly??? I hope that diagnosing the MTHFR will help me to avoid these things in the future. 

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Old 12-03-2010, 08:30 PM
 
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the answer seems to be the nutrient depletion that happens when mother's stores aren't replenished between kids. 

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Old 12-04-2010, 07:23 AM
 
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I'm glad I investigated MTHFR after my first was born with tongue-tie.  I feel much better going into this pregnancy because I know I upped and monitored my nutrient levels.  I worked on cramming in lots of good stuff between pregnancies, then got some tests before conceiving.  I guess we will see in the spring about the smaller midline defects like tongue-tie or butt dimples, but at least I know from the ultrasound that there are no major ones like spina bifida or obvious heart issues.


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Old 08-06-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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I just stumbled across this thread and my DD almost 3 has many of the same issues: sacral dimple, colic for at least the first 3 months, food intolerances (gluten/dairy), eczema before I cut dairy out of my diet when she was EBF, digestive problems (will go a week without pooping), she has never slept good at all - gave up naps early, has a hard time falling asleep & wakes many times during the night, AND a lip tie which I think is the cause of a large gap between her two front teeth & now what appears to be tooth decay on her front teeth. She has a deep indention on her left front tooth and the tooth next to it.  

 

I was wondering if any of you have experienced tooth decay with your kids with midline problems? I just ordered the book "Cure Tooth Decay" and some cell salts and pasca-dent.  We already try to follow WAP diet and she eats really healthy.

 

My second question, I just found out I'm pregnant with our second child.  Although my nutrition is much better than my first pregnancy, I'm still very worried after seeing how most peoples children got worse down the line.  What can I do NOW to help this baby? We do green smoothies every day and I eat at least 1/2 an avocado every day. Also nettles infusion and bone broth daily. I don't know if I should be taking prenatals or if they're more harmful than helpful? 

 

Also, DD still nurses ALOT and I was wondering if this would deplete more nutrients from the growing baby.


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Old 08-11-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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Wow, I just stumbled across this thread, too, when I was about to post about something else.

 

I am FASCINATED!

 

I have spent DS's entire life trying to figure out what his issues are, and what they may have stemmed from.  We have been to every type of doctor under the sun, and have had every sort of blood test and therapist evaluation and everything is always inconclusive.  Yet I know he clearly has issues- many of the ones described on this thread.

 

The sacral cleft was noticed at birth by the midwives.  He had unexplained nursing/sucking issues that no LC could ever explain or find a way to help.  He has a V-shaped jaw and very crowded teeth (but surprisingly, no tooth decay at all- yet my very typical healthy 2nd child has rotten teeth!)  He also has ptosis (drooping eyelids), wierdly-shaped overlapping toes, kidney abnormality diagnosed at prenatal ultrasound which never amounted to anything, super tiny ear canals necessitating tubes long past the age they supposedly grow out of it, eczema as a baby, super fussy and always seemed miserable as a baby and toddler, horrible sleep, and suspected food intolerances although I've never identified what they are.  As well as learning/developmental delays, emotional regulation issues, and possibly Asperger's (according to one psych, but no others identified it).

 

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I'm anxious to learn more and see what else we can do to help since a lot of it is already a done deal.  I feel terrible that it was likely my own diet, and the fact that I was on hormonal birth control for many years before getting pregnant and never did much to improve my own nutrition before pregnancy and this likely happened in the first trimester :(  I ate fake vegetarian foods mostly and probably was quite deficient in B vitamins :( 

 

For those who are wondering about subsequent children, I gravitated to more WAP- style eating and my other children are super healthy and none of the possible genetic abnormalities.

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Old 08-13-2011, 09:36 AM
 
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For those who are wondering about subsequent children, I gravitated to more WAP- style eating and my other children are super healthy and none of the possible genetic abnormalities.

 



Thank you, Awaken :)  This makes me feel more hopeful about my current pregnancy and the health of this baby.  I've completely changed our diet since my DD was born, hopefully the new baby will benefit.


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Old 08-16-2011, 06:25 AM
 
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Awaken, I  highly suggest this bok http://www.amazon.com/Healing-New-Childhood-Epidemics-Groundbreaking/dp/0345494512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313497340&sr=8-1 It's AMAZINGLY comprehensive. We've begun working on our plan w/our alternative-minded dr and seen amazing results already. GL.


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Old 09-03-2011, 11:52 AM
 
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Awaken - have they ever suggested Noonan Syndrome to you?  Look it up - a lot of the things you are saying are common with Noonan Syndrome (which my third kiddo has).

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Old 02-24-2012, 04:15 PM
 
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important info.


I have a blog.
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Old 02-25-2012, 01:19 AM
 
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very interesting...still need to read through it all.

subbing..

 

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