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#31 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lissybug View Post
Lisa- Wahat is NAC? I'm sure it's in another thread, but you think it's helping with the KP on Taslyn? And do you get KP too?
NAC- N-acetyl-cysteine. A form of cysteine (cystine it's called) that's shelf stable and not absorbed unless it's needed. It helps stop the prodction of ammonia (from transulferation?) to free up BH4, which is used to make a whole whack of different hormones (including dopamine and seratonin). BH4 is what is used in the body to get rid of ammonia and ammonia is made by the production of cysteine (among other things).
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I do think I have problems with fat malabsorption, and started taking HCl. It may or may not be helping. I'm not sure.
Bile, not HCl in this case. Bile is what is used to absorb/digest the nutrients from fats. To increase bile, you need to increase cholesterol. To increase cholesterol, you may need to increase your cysteine, as Shannon is doing.

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#32 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 07:28 PM
 
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Bumping.

How can we relate this to the detox stuff? The nutrients I keep seeing are vit A, EFAs, vit C and vit D.

Vit A and D go together.
Vit C and EFAs both are linked to glutathione. Glutathione is also linked to phase 1 detox, and parathyroid. Parathyroid links in vitamin D and calcium.

How are we all doing on:
vit A?
vit D?
vit C?
caffeine tolerance (phase 1)?
calcium?
cavities/tartar?

and for fun, if you've been following the detox stuff:
chocolate cravings?
methylation?
depression/focus/thyroid?
I think it is interesting that Lissybug had her KP disappear while on vacation in the Caribbean. Where you'd expect more vit D (sunshine) and more vit C (fresh fruits), maybe less caffeine and calcium concurrently (???). Maybe more chocolate on vacation?

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#33 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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Vitamin D lowers PTH. Low PTH = higher calcium. Higher calcium = more prone to keratosis pilaris. (lithium also affects PTH)

Vitamin A inhibits vitamin D's action on PTH.
Low vitamin A turns mucous cells in the skin to keratin cells.

Keratin is made (in part) by cysteine. Cysteine is also used to make glutathione. Raising PTH will help raise glutathione. So low PTH = low glutathione = excess cysteine and high calcium?

EFAs help raise glutathione. EFAs help with KP.

Vitamin C helps glutathione levels. Low vitamin C can give you 'corkscrew hairs' which are reported to be inside the KP plugs.

So vitamin A, vitamin C, plus figure out how to get your body to produce more glutathione/use more cysteine?
You LOVED geometry didn't you?


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#34 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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You LOVED geometry didn't you?

Pat
You mean there are people who didn't/don't?

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#35 of 48 Old 03-08-2009, 12:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lissybug View Post
Lisa- Wahat is NAC? I'm sure it's in another thread, but you think it's helping with the KP on Taslyn? And do you get KP too?

The boys were getting KP in relation to dairy rxn. Now that the dairy is out it's going away again, though James has a few bumps still. would love to have clear arms and legs- I've had KP since I was a kid.

I think we certainly get enough Vit D just from beingin AZ and being outside a lot. SO from what I'm reading here would CLO increase both A and D? And one would actually want to just increase A? Or am I mixed up?

Vitamin C I can figure out.
But I'm lost on the other 'oines and 'enes.
What I'm guessing is that if your blood calcium and blood cysteine levels are high, then you get too much keratin - keratosis pilaris, among other things (like a fuzzy tongue). Vitamin D increases blood calcium, while vitamin A inhibits that.
lowering the cysteine is more complicated and I'm not clear on it yet... But by providing all the nutrients for all the *other* process that need it should get it out of circulation. For adrenal support and increasing cholesterol, that would be pantothenic acid (and magnesium). For glutathione, that would be... EFAs and vitamin C and glycine and...? This is where I need more research

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You LOVED geometry didn't you?
I... um... yeah. I had a habit of correcting the teacher. On tests. And then I TA'd for him my senior year

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#36 of 48 Old 03-08-2009, 12:14 AM
 
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I... um... yeah. I had a habit of correcting the teacher. On tests. And then I TA'd for him my senior year
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#37 of 48 Old 03-08-2009, 12:25 AM
 
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I'm coming in late in this thread--but it's so intersting- I have had this my whole life it seems (didn't know it had a name! I guess figures because everyone I know seems to have it on their arms for sure!) ---anyways--this went away (the bumps- not the underredness) when I went off dairy! weird though that maybe it's just it's cycle and has nothing to do with that. we are definately good with our EFA's and have coocnut oil to help with absoption of those fats--but I've always wondered about low vit A-we get plenty--but both my kids never get fevers and I heard that could mean low vit A somewhere?!! (I don't get fevers either) --anyways---sorry a little off topic--but I'm watching this thread and hoping to understand- (didn't do well in geometry)
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#38 of 48 Old 03-09-2009, 12:17 AM
 
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[QUOTE=mama1803;13320991]
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Originally Posted by isaoma View Post
I know that most American's tend to consume way more omega 3's than 6's, but weren't one of those families.


QUOTE]

I thought it was the other way around--most people consumed much more 6's than 3's?
Good grief, sorry, I flipped my omega #s. You're right, I meant to say most American consume too much omega 6 and not enough omega 3. You need to maintain a healthy ratio of: 2 to 1 (omega 6 to omega 3).

Sorry for the confusing post...
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#39 of 48 Old 03-09-2009, 12:51 AM
 
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Count me in as another " I saw this in new posts and have had it most of my life"
It got really bad while I was pregnant with my first child. In turn, both of my dd's have it to some extent.
Can I just list some symptoms and have you guys analyze them?

-In myself, I have always had a white coating on my tongue.
-dd1 has teeth problems. Her front tooth ended being removed due to an infection in the gum. Her enemal was very decayed. Has many cavities.
-All three of us have bumpy skin. I definately have KP on the back of my arms. DD1 had bumpy skin on her back, a skin rash on her cheeks( she used a soother) and the creases of her skin would seep due to friction.
-both girls have a weird crust behind their ears(I use moisturizer to get rid of it. Vaseline works wonders on it )
-cradle cap.
-black under-eyes.
-My nose is constantly stuffed, and I blink a lot due to watery eyes.

I believe its all allergy related. Will an allergy test be accurate enough to pinpoint what we are allergic to? Which is the most accurate? (I'm in Canada, btw)
If its not, what would be the first things to eliminate? Dairy? What can I use instead of dairy...or soy for that matter? (DH with hypothyroidism, so we stay away from it) I need something for a picky eater. DH and dd1 both love to drink milk. Is Rice milk compareable.
Wow, sorry, went way off-topic...

Ok, I found that sunlight and cod liver oil helped alot to reduce my KP. DD1 loves CLO pills : I give her two a day, should I raise her dose?


And what this about coffee? and chocolate?

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#40 of 48 Old 03-09-2009, 03:40 AM
 
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Can I just list some symptoms and have you guys analyze them?
Um... yeah... it sounds like you've got some health issues that could be healed. There are probably some foods that are making them worse, but they're also probably caused by nutrient imbalances. Everyone has a unique set of nutrient requirements, and there is little information out there on figuring out how much your own body needs. I've been learning about biochemistry and detox pathways recently (check out the detox and chat threads in the allergies forum).

The cradle cap and stuff behind the ears is probably a form of seborrheic dermatitis, and biotin will probably help a lot. Do you by any chance have adrenal issues (there's an adrenal fatigue thread in health and healing)? Low cholesterol? Low blood pressure? If so, pantothenic acid might help as well. Feel free to start your own thread if you want to be overwhelmed with more custom advice

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#41 of 48 Old 06-03-2009, 07:23 PM
 
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1. I love geometry too. And I love that you all love geometry.

2. I've had KP on the back of my arms as long as I can remember. WAY before puberty. I remember having it as a very little child.

3.
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Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Vitamin C helps glutathione levels. Low vitamin C can give you 'corkscrew hairs' which are reported to be inside the KP plugs
I always interpreted them as having hairs buried in them because they form in the pores that also have hair follicles, and obviously the hairs can't work their way out through them.

4. On my legs i rarely get a KP plug, but I do get a lot of ingrown hairs.

5. Sea Buckthorn Oil definitely helped mine, but I believe I would need to keep up on it to keep them from returning. It is just symptom control. At this point, I think I would rather see that symptom to have the added clue what is going on inside.

6. I never interpreted the plugs on my face as being related to the ones on my arms. They came on much later in life, and are easier to remove (scrubbing, or occasionally a needle), leaving nothing behind. The ones on my arms are under a layer of skin, so when I pick those out I usually end up with clearly scratched-open skin, and a little dot of blood where the plug was. Scrubbing my face keeps the plugs at bay, but at the expense of having redness. And I wonder if my oiliness on my face is a response to the assault of scrubbing, and the inevitable drying that comes with it.

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#42 of 48 Old 06-04-2009, 04:23 PM
 
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Well, I'm going to see how high we can go with magnesium for DH, and I may experiment with taurine as well. And our HCP had recommended choline citrate with the magnesium, I need to understand that a bit more (the choline citrate is a liquid, very tart). I think the cysteine-regulation part is the weakest in DH's family, other folks in his family have KP too. They make tons of glutathione, so that's not their issue, and while they may not really consume enough vitamin A in the Price-sense, I don't think they're any worse than anyone else out there. But I think they use up a lot of magnesium, my daughter certainly needs a lot, so I think the lack of magnesium is showing up as a a cysteine issue.

Thanks for the keratin page on your detoxpuzzle site, Shannon, apparently I need to read new things about 5 times before things click and I figure out something likely to play with.

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/keratin.php
For anyone who hasn't seen it lately.
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#43 of 48 Old 06-04-2009, 05:08 PM
 
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Well, I'm going to see how high we can go with magnesium for DH, and I may experiment with taurine as well. And our HCP had recommended choline citrate with the magnesium, I need to understand that a bit more (the choline citrate is a liquid, very tart). I think the cysteine-regulation part is the weakest in DH's family, other folks in his family have KP too. They make tons of glutathione, so that's not their issue, and while they may not really consume enough vitamin A in the Price-sense, I don't think they're any worse than anyone else out there. But I think they use up a lot of magnesium, my daughter certainly needs a lot, so I think the lack of magnesium is showing up as a a cysteine issue.

Thanks for the keratin page on your detoxpuzzle site, Shannon, apparently I need to read new things about 5 times before things click and I figure out something likely to play with.

http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/keratin.php
For anyone who hasn't seen it lately.
So I think kp is a sign that calcium ion channels are open. And magnesium is used to help regulate those channels. So open calcium channels creates an increased need for magnesium, as well as kp. At least that's my guess

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#44 of 48 Old 06-04-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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So I think kp is a sign that calcium ion channels are open. And magnesium is used to help regulate those channels. So open calcium channels creates an increased need for magnesium, as well as kp. At least that's my guess
that's interesting, cause my next guess for family history stuff was taurine, for sulfate. I don't see it in terms of food sensitivities, but in my MIL' s osteoarthritis. And mag and taurine are both important for calcium cahannels, i hadn't quite looked at it that way (screen issues, more typos than usual, sorry).

so, do open calcium channels _create_ an increased need for mag, or are they a symptom of mag deficiency? I need to copy all this to my thread, i think I'm finally getting somewhere. Now I just need to figure out what choline does, and why choline citrate would be different.
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#45 of 48 Old 06-04-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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that's interesting, cause my next guess for family history stuff was taurine, for sulfate. I don't see it in terms of food sensitivities, but in my MIL' s osteoarthritis. And mag and taurine are both important for calcium cahannels, i hadn't quite looked at it that way (screen issues, more typos than usual, sorry).

so, do open calcium channels _create_ an increased need for mag, or are they a symptom of mag deficiency? I need to copy all this to my thread, i think I'm finally getting somewhere. Now I just need to figure out what choline does, and why choline citrate would be different.
I don't know anything about choline yet. From the mag link (I think?) both taurine and magnesium are used to close the channels. mag first, then taurine for the rest.

I think that the main issue is that the channels are open - but why? it's probably different for everyone. It might be glutamate/ammonia or it might be vit D/low calcium or it might be inflammation (not sure on that link yet, but it's got to be there) or any number of things.

The picture in my head is that everyone has billions of calcium channels, and at any given time, some are open and some are closed. We need Mg and taurine to regulate the open ones. In people with kp and other issues with open calcium channels, more are open then there should be, and so suddenly we need way more mag/taurine to try and regulate them back to normal. So open channels/mag deficiency totally would go hand in hand, with channels being held open increasing the requirement for mag (which is where i think we are with dd) and an outright mag deficiency might cause the same symptoms as though the channels were being held open.

Yeah?

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#46 of 48 Old 06-04-2009, 07:06 PM
 
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I think I see what you mean. For some people, just a lack of magnesium could cause this, but for others, something else is opening Ca channels and artificially inflating the need and so you end up low on mag, and long-term depleting taurine. I can see supplementing magnesium, that doesn't seem inappropriate to me, but taurine? That seems like band-aid, we should be consuming plenty. But if mag is low for whatever reason, i wonder if taurine can try, to some extent, to be used as a replacement, and then it gets low. I don't really understand the taurine connection for sulfate, but cysteine and sulfate have been coming up for a while, and I know magnesium is an issue, and it seems like more than coincidence that taurine is coming up linking them. Given the health issues I'm seeing in DH's family.

I just need to figure out the neurotransmitter implications of choline and taurine and make sure it's not idiotic to supp both at the same time, and then I think it could help (hopefully) DH.
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#47 of 48 Old 06-04-2009, 10:45 PM
 
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Just saw this thread- I had always heard that it was genetic and there was nothing you could do about it. Although come to think of it, I heard that from my dr. I did suspect that what we were eating could have something to do with it. My two younger sons have it, as do I. I've had it on the backs of my arms since I was a teenager, and my son has it on his thighs too, though it really comes and goes with him. I did think coconut oil greatly reduced it on me. Now there is some residual, tell-tale redness, but no bumps.

Though back to the possible vit A and CLO topics- Mine does seem to be better on me anyway than when I was a teenager- maybe b/c I take fish oil now? : My son's goes back and forth and I'm not sure what changes in his diet when the KP does. The vit A thing intrigues me. I thought I was getting that, maybe not. :/ Kind of OT, but why take regular fish oil and not CLO if the Vit A in the latter is helpful year round, and not just in the winter when we need the D? It seems like a lot of sources I had read recommended that switching- even when they stress the safety of naturally derived vit A. I sprinkle dessicated liver into some meat dishes, and we eat a lot of eggs and raw milk, but probably not often enough.
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#48 of 48 Old 05-05-2012, 02:48 AM
 
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It IS the other way around..most people are deficient in Omega 3's .  It "bad" fats in our diet are basically Omega 6's.

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