Keratosis Pilaris - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay. Since I see discussion about this starting to pop up around the allergy forum, I thought I'd open the door to a focused discussion about it. I'd start a poll, but I'm not sure of its usefulness. So... anyhoo...

My DD was born with multiple food and chemical allergies. As her allergies have abated, KP has popped up. And she doesn't have it just on the back of her arms, but all over her torso. It waxes and wanes with seemingly no rhyme or reason, though I think its better with a moisturizing regime.

A friend told me that the KP on her and her daughter goes away when they use Earth Science Almond and Aloe (face?) moisturizer. I bought some of course, but haven't tried it on my DD because the crystal says no.

Next...

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#2 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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I've got it (I think) on the backs of my arms and my thighs/butt. The primary explanation I'd always heard was that it's a vit A deficiency. Next in my line of supplements is vit A and D, so I'll report back if I notice changes

In high school, I assumed it had something to do with the sun since it seemed more common (among my friends) on upper arms/thighs that were covered by clothing.

Who else?

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#3 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 08:55 PM
 
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Huh. I'd never heard of it before it was mentioned in the other thread (midline issues?), but after looking at some of the photos, I think DS1 has it- or used to before we went dairy free.
ETA: I think he actually does still have it somewhat though, on his chin.

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#4 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 09:04 PM
 
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Wow. Strange that I just logged on and noticed this thread. I always had kp on the backs of my upper arms. Four months ago, I went from vegetarian to vegan. My kp is completely gone. I was researching online, and found that kp is more common in vegetarians/vegans. I sure did think that was strange!
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#5 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 09:24 PM
 
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Well, I think my husband has this on his arms, upper arms, more along the back than the front. I _thought_ I'd read it was related to omega-3 deficiencies. But we haven't really done anything specifically to see if that helps/doesn't. Huh. I suspect his gut is more messed up than either me or the kids. No help from me, will be watching for ideas.
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#6 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 10:20 PM
 
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I've read it often improves w/ fish oil and vit A, but it hasn't happened here yet. I've got it on the backs of my arms.

My dd is like yours, mtn.mama. She has it all over and it waxes and wanes. However, since we (re)discovered that bananas were bothering her, her skin has gotten so smooth. I'm also suspecting that buckwheat may exacerbate it. So, I'm never sure to call it eczema or kp, but the bunps are like raised hair follicles that are lighter than her skin. Oh, and ds was definitely born with it. He had/has it on his back. It was a lot rougher when I was eating wheat, but even at baseline, they're still noticeable.

ETA: to address the right poster (sorry, mtn.mama!)
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#7 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, supplementing/increasing vitamin A and beta-carotene have done nothing to change it around here. But we're just entering a realm where we can begin boosting EFAs again, so I'm anxious to see if this helps.

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#8 of 48 Old 01-28-2009, 11:32 PM
 
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i have it on my arms and upper thighs and dd has it on her arms and lower legs. it gets better and worse for both of us, not seemingly related to anything i can figure. i read that it could be related to vit a def (which we all know i dont have), but now i read on the other thread vit b def?
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#9 of 48 Old 01-29-2009, 02:09 AM
 
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I think that was just my tiredness talking in the other thread ellasmama- I mentioned vit b, but I think I was just not remembering correctly. Sorry about that.

I have KP on backs of my arms and upper thighs. I live in AZ and the dryness definitely makes it worse. It nearly went away while we were in the carribean for a few weeks.

My sons had never had anything like KP, then for a while we went through a phase of drinking a whole lot of milk and a rash that seems very similar showed up on one boy. It wasn't on his arms, but it has that same feeling of bumpiness. I think maybe it was a different thing than KP though really...anyway, now that the dairy is gone that's gone away in him. I haven't noticed a difference in myself.

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#10 of 48 Old 01-29-2009, 02:34 AM
 
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My son has KP - no known food allergies or other allergies. His KP affects his thighs, upper arms and face. At times it would get really severe. We usually couldn't figure out what caused it to get better or worse and have never used moisturizer. He only uses CA Baby sensitive formula to wash. We tried Jason products for a while but it worsened. A year ago I started giving him CLO (we are veggie but I was hoping it would help w/another medical issue) and his KP is now unnoticeable.

I also have slight KP on my upper arms for the past ten years - although I never knew what it was until my son was diagnosed by the dermatologist.

Doodlebugsmom, that is interesting about it being more common in veg*ns.
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#11 of 48 Old 01-29-2009, 02:42 AM
 
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I have had KP for as long as I can remember. Thighs, lower legs, backs of arms... I also have bumpy redness on my jawline, not sure if it is also KP? It looks different, more like rosacea. My mom and brother both have it too, KP, and the facial redness. (My brother had it checked out in junior high because it was so embarrassing to him, and a derm. said it wasn't rosacea but some other thing and gave him some script that never helped.)

Anyway, back on subject. I searched all of MDC for KP once my son started showing it on his lower legs. They feel really rough and bumpy. All I read said Vit. A, or genetic condition. I was also told Vit. A by an herbalist and I think PB mentioned A/D - essential fatty acids. Maybe it has to do with absorption or utilization or ratio or, did someone mention a virgin chicken?
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#12 of 48 Old 01-29-2009, 10:05 AM
 
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I just posted these symptoms on the general health portion and out of curiosity looked at this thread. This is exactly what my daughter has. She is AA and I was wondering if anyone knows if this is more prevalent in AA?

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#13 of 48 Old 01-29-2009, 11:25 PM
 
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i've had it since puberty on my thighs and upper arms. i don't really do much except exfoliate and moisturize when needed. it does get worse in cold weather. my mom and sis both have it too. i bet DD will have when she's older.
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#14 of 48 Old 01-29-2009, 11:27 PM
 
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mine really bugs me and i wish i could get rid of it. i pick at it too which of course makes it worse. co seems to be helping it a bit.
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#15 of 48 Old 01-30-2009, 12:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellasmama2007 View Post
mine really bugs me and i wish i could get rid of it. i pick at it too which of course makes it worse. co seems to be helping it a bit.
Me, too. I had a dermatalogist once offer me a "medicine" that was supposed to help. I told her no thanks. Turns out it was a low-level antibiotic. Nice. As if I need to kill my immune system any more just for vanity's sake.
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#16 of 48 Old 01-30-2009, 12:23 AM
 
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Saw this on new posts...

I've had it since I was little. It was always better in the summer, with all the time we'd spend in the sun.

I had a super-bad flare up when I was PMS-ing a few months ago. I thought I was going to scratch my legs off. I seriously thought all my hair follicles on my legs were infected or something. Couldn't get in to see a dermatologist for months, so did some online searching.

I found a keratosis pilaris community (google it...I don't think I can link to it here???) where people tried all kinds of things. I picked a couple that seemed to help most people.....

Sea Buckthorn Oil
Extra Virgin Coconut Oil

I bought the Weleda Sea Buckthorn Oil body wash (Target and Walgreens carry it, around $14) and a jar of extra virgin coconut oil. I saw almost instant improvement. If I lay off the regimen, it comes back. Or if it gets too dry in the house with this awful winter weather (we've been in the 20s all month), it comes back some. And it is definitely connected to my menstrual cycle.

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#17 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 03:52 PM
 
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Bumping.

How can we relate this to the detox stuff? The nutrients I keep seeing are vit A, EFAs, vit C and vit D.

Vit A and D go together.
Vit C and EFAs both are linked to glutathione. Glutathione is also linked to phase 1 detox, and parathyroid. Parathyroid links in vitamin D and calcium.

How are we all doing on:
vit A?
vit D?
vit C?
caffeine tolerance (phase 1)?
calcium?
cavities/tartar?

and for fun, if you've been following the detox stuff:
chocolate cravings?
methylation?
depression/focus/thyroid?

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#18 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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related study
keratin and cysteine
vitamins A, D, calcium, PTH

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#19 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Bumping.

How can we relate this to the detox stuff? The nutrients I keep seeing are vit A, EFAs, vit C and vit D.

Vit A and D go together.
Vit C and EFAs both are linked to glutathione. Glutathione is also linked to phase 1 detox, and parathyroid. Parathyroid links in vitamin D and calcium.

How are we all doing on:
vit A?
vit D?
vit C?
caffeine tolerance (phase 1)?
calcium?
cavities/tartar?

and for fun, if you've been following the detox stuff:
chocolate cravings?
methylation?
depression/focus/thyroid?
Good points all. Since we boosted EFA's via 2 tsp flax oil in our green juice and Omega-3 on demand... the KP seems to have laid down. We also quit sunflower (oil) at the same time. For us I think its all related.

For reference: we should be doing well on A, D, C and calcium. My caffeine tolerance is normal- I feel the effects of one cup of coffee. Taslyn has five teeth in front with enamel problems... and once the teeth start to crumble its pretty hard to keep decay out. But we're holding steady.

Little Girl DEFINITELY likes dark chocolate, and we're both supplementing iodine.

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#20 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 04:21 PM
 
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My DD2 has this I think. The pictures that I found though all show a pinkish/reddish tinge. Her's does not itch. And you can feel it easily, but you have to look closely to see it. Even off all her trigger foods, she still has it. All over her trunk, legs, arms. Not really on her face. It just feels bumpy vs. smooth. Does that sound like KP? None of the rest of us have it. I don't know how she is on Vitamins. She drinks plenty of enriched rice milk, and eats plenty of calcium foods, and salmon every 4 days. I think she's okay with omega 3s. She might not get enough Vitamin C (I cannot find a safe one) or Vitamin D (though I don't sunscreen her except in the summertime if we're out on the boat). She likes chocolate (don't we all). She gets coconut oil - baking/cooking (or am I supposed to put it on her skin?)

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#21 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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Dd (2.5) has kp on her checks mostly and sometimes on her thighs. I thought it was eczema, but her allergist said it was kp. She said kp is a mild form of eczema - but I'm not sure how they are related. Dd's checks just looked dry and a little red. I guess the giveaway was that they didn't itch.

Dd's kp is definately related to food intolerances. She has been off of dairy for 10 days now and it has all but disappeared.

I just wanted to note that before we went off of dairy, dd's kp really responded to borage oil (topically). Borage oil is high in GLA (omega 6), I've read abstracts of studies that suggested the individual's with eczema problems tend to be low in GLA. I've been making mayonnaise with sunflower oil to boost omega 3's around here - I know that most American's tend to consume way more omega 3's than 6's, but weren't one of those families.


...never mind the GLA suggestion, I jsut googled in and the lasted studies show uneven results....
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#22 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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I'm wondering if it's not a phase I detox and bile thing. Could it be that there's an underproduction of bile inhibiting absorption of fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E & K) and EFA's?

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#23 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 06:15 PM
 
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Vitamin D lowers PTH. Low PTH = higher calcium. Higher calcium = more prone to keratosis pilaris. (lithium also affects PTH)

Vitamin A inhibits vitamin D's action on PTH.
Low vitamin A turns mucous cells in the skin to keratin cells.

Keratin is made (in part) by cysteine. Cysteine is also used to make glutathione. Raising PTH will help raise glutathione. So low PTH = low glutathione = excess cysteine and high calcium?

EFAs help raise glutathione. EFAs help with KP.

Vitamin C helps glutathione levels. Low vitamin C can give you 'corkscrew hairs' which are reported to be inside the KP plugs.

So vitamin A, vitamin C, plus figure out how to get your body to produce more glutathione/use more cysteine?

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#24 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting. Our vitamin A has to have increased since we started green juicing at the beginning of January. I did start NAC about two weeks ago... I suppose it could have pushed us over the top? Its so awesome to feel her smooth skin again!

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#25 of 48 Old 03-06-2009, 09:48 PM
 
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I saw this thread when looking for for info on certain allergies.

I'm a highly allergic person (with asthma) and have KP. I don't have it nearly as bad as I did when I was a kid. It seemed to have shown up closer to puberty and got better the older I got. I did spend tons of time tanning as I got older.

Well, it turns out my kids have it too. My son seems to have it beginning just a little bit, it's not all that noticeable yet. My older girl has it on her arms and some on her legs and then there is my middle daughter.. She's got it really bad. She feels like sand paper and it gets really red. It doesn't help that her skin is intensely dry and red as well.
I try to get her to keep care of the dryness but with her being 12, it doesn't always happen.
We've used many different doctor prescribed lotions over the years and of course used a lot of aquaphor. NOthing applied to her skin ever helped. The aquaphor really turned her off of applying things too, she didn't like feeling sticky.

I will say though, we did see a little bit of improvement when we lived in Hawaii for a few years. We were out in the sun often, so her skin wasn't so red but she still felt like sand paper. It's so bad that when she was in gymnastics, I had to print out a paper explaining what she had because it worried the coaches when they touched her.

If anyone can help regarding Vit A and such. I'd love some help. I wouldn't know where to start with it. I wouldn't even know how much to give her either.
I'm to the point where I can't just sit by anymore and hope she keeps her skin lotioned up daily. She may need an extra boost that vitamins could possibly provide. So I'm researching more now.
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#26 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 01:13 AM
 
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Awesome!

I am doing CLO, so should be good on A/D (I think?). C I mostly hope to get from foods (lemon in kefir, other fruit, sauerkraut). I dunno about caffeine or chocolate seeing as I haven't had any in way too long (like a month, so not THAT long) - when I did have them both I craved them and it did not affect my sleep whatsoever (lucky there - no insomnia here). Unsure on calcium, but have lots of cavities. Definitely mag. deficient. I've been doing espsom baths 2-3x/week but I probably should start supp'ing.

I do think I have problems with fat malabsorption, and started taking HCl. It may or may not be helping. I'm not sure.

The science journals and most of the detox cycles are over my head. I don't know if I am an under or over methylator or high or low histamine or what.

Oh, and I have terrible mood swings of irritability and depression. I notice a difference with the CLO, if I miss a few days I get really sad.

My KP is red, but my son's varies. It goes from pink to white depending on hydration, and coconut oil on his skin after baths seems to help mosturize.

I mentioned it to my homeopath and said I'd really love to see it go away, and he said he believe it would with time, but that skin is usually the last to clear.

mtn.mama - I'm so glad you've seen T's clear!
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#27 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 09:39 AM
 
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Well, supplementing/increasing vitamin A and beta-carotene have done nothing to change it around here. But we're just entering a realm where we can begin boosting EFAs again, so I'm anxious to see if this helps.
Quote:
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I do think I have problems with fat malabsorption,
I listened to this webinar the other night and the doctor was saying that sometimes people need carnitine to be able to absorb the CLO. SO, maybe you aren't absorbing the vit A from the CLO correctly? I don't know much about this yet, it just seem like it has come up a few times, so you may want to google carnitine and fats.
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#28 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 09:42 AM
 
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I have had KP on the backs of my arms forever. It gets better with moisturizing, and growing up my mom always told me to use a loofah, but I don't think that ever helped. When I get enough EFAs, it gets better, but I am taking HVCLO right now, and it's not better. I now, for the past couple of years, also have it on my legs, to the point where I don't shave anymore at all.

I think it's because I need more EFAs than I am getting in the HVCLO.
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#29 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 11:51 AM
 
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[QUOTE=isaoma;13317111] I know that most American's tend to consume way more omega 3's than 6's, but weren't one of those families.


QUOTE]

I thought it was the other way around--most people consumed much more 6's than 3's?
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#30 of 48 Old 03-07-2009, 12:12 PM
 
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Lisa- Wahat is NAC? I'm sure it's in another thread, but you think it's helping with the KP on Taslyn? And do you get KP too?

The boys were getting KP in relation to dairy rxn. Now that the dairy is out it's going away again, though James has a few bumps still. would love to have clear arms and legs- I've had KP since I was a kid.

I think we certainly get enough Vit D just from beingin AZ and being outside a lot. SO from what I'm reading here would CLO increase both A and D? And one would actually want to just increase A? Or am I mixed up?

Vitamin C I can figure out.
But I'm lost on the other 'oines and 'enes.

Mama to James 4-05 and Leland 7-07, and feeling so privileged to be growing kiddo #3 due in September!
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