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#301 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 03:00 PM
 
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if you can see the picture and it works the one true remedy is a bee-you-tiful thing. It's when the best indicated remedy doesnt' work that you start questioning what you are seeing and repertorizing. You can rep vitamin deficiencies all you want and a remedy ain't gonna help *if* the diet is the problem.

You need to know how to clear the case and see the picture which I think is a really hard thing to do.
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#302 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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I wonder if there's a way to tell what your genes are based on what effect different supplements have...
I think so, at least sometimes...and also by what food chemicals you react to. Emma (owner of the www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com site) was quite good at predicting people's genes based on their reactions to various things (verified by Yasko's genetic testing). I'm sure my DD has a MTHFR polymorphism as she is sensitive to amines but her tolerance is greatly increased by supplementing Folapro (folate--all types are not created equal) and certain forms of B12.
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#303 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 07:44 PM
 
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Oh NO! I'm so sorry! Always feel free to bug me. I don't always sub to the threads and get follow up emails. Plus sometimes it doesn't notify until 4 pages into thread. I hope that you are getting it now!
It's all good. It was a new thread I had started in H&H and I didn't know you yet. Someone else (maybe it was whoMe?) said that maybe you would weigh in since you had knowledge about it but I didn't feel right pming someone I didn't know at all... I'd never even seen your username before.
I'm not entirely getting it now, but I'm more interested, at this point, in getting my house back under control and somewhat organized again now that I'm not spending all of my time praising the porcelain god or feeling terrible on the sofa. But now I know you *and* whoMe, so I do know where to go when I manage to get to a point where I *can* concentrate more fully on this again.

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#304 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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Ooooh, that sounds great! The doc that I'm precepting with is a whiz at this and I have a call into her right now. This is what she DOES so I'd rather ask her than give you my suggestions and miss something.

The way I study this presently isn't the way you are looking at it and doesn't require blood testing, but I think it's totally valid. I dont' want to short-change you!

FWIW we're hung up at folate as well. We actually do mega supplement! I can't remember if I said it here but when I really started using critical thinking in biochem and clinical nutrition was when I started realizing that it wasn't a folate deficiency that was affecting babies with midline issues, but detoxification issues with obstructed pathways. I'm SO GLAD you are learning this and helping everyone else as well!

I know many of you have heard me say that some of us have a genetic requirement for more folate...but this is where the action is right here. Understanding how the body is handling it and why.

Whome is very quickly getting to the point of tying this all together.
Do you use symptoms instead of blood testing? Trying supplements to see what they do? I'm really interested in doing some testing, just to prove I'm on the right track, and because it'll blow my mom away and make dh more comfortable that I really DO know what I'm talking about.

I can totally see how you could interview someone and figure out their genetics and what to feed them, but I don't have my head quite there, yet. Knowing me, I probably will in a week though

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#305 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 08:18 PM
 
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It's all good. It was a new thread I had started in H&H and I didn't know you yet. Someone else (maybe it was whoMe?) said that maybe you would weigh in since you had knowledge about it but I didn't feel right pming someone I didn't know at all... I'd never even seen your username before.
I'm guessing that you had seen me around with my previous username.

Anyway glad you are here now!
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#306 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 08:31 PM
 
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Do you use symptoms instead of blood testing? Trying supplements to see what they do? I'm really interested in doing some testing, just to prove I'm on the right track, and because it'll blow my mom away and make dh more comfortable that I really DO know what I'm talking about.

I can totally see how you could interview someone and figure out their genetics and what to feed them, but I don't have my head quite there, yet. Knowing me, I probably will in a week though
Yes, there are so many basic things that you can ask someone and get a REALLY good picture. However my main focus is homeopathy (still working on that!) which looks at symptoms and sensations. For me I took this path because I know how important nutrition is and wanted to understand the pitfalls. I also know that there is a major catch-22. You may not present an accurate picture if you aren't nourished, but you may not be able to be fully nourished until you have the right remedy. You can't get the right remedy until you present an accurate picture. And so on and so forth.

I believe that homeopathy heals in amazing and profound ways....but I wanted to be able to recognize things that my future patients couldn't necessarily piece together.

Homeopathic medicine works in a very different way. Knowing the biochemistry, A&P and differential diagnosis is invaluable...but you rarely look for the nitty gritty details in the way that you are. Those aren't necessary to treat homeopathically. Does that make sense? It is VERY important to know that if you are looking to become a nutritionist or herbalist. As with anything different weight is placed on different knowledge in different fields. Clinical nutrition has it's place in homeopathy but it's not a central place.

When you can see the dominant miasm you have a really good idea of what is happening during digestion, what systems are in trouble and what needs to be cleared. This is true in both classical and clinical homeopathy....though there are different paths to the same end.

My remedy is changing the way my body is getting rid of toxins, but we are still giving it a boost so that the cycles are complete. In theory a single remedy should do it, and it probably can. There are just problems getting there at times.

I should have useful info for you quite soon! I missed a call earlier but am sitting here with the phone on my lap now.
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#307 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 08:36 PM
 
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I'm guessing that you had seen me around with my previous username.

Anyway glad you are here now!
It was many many moons ago, before you had your name change.

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#308 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 08:46 PM
 
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. I'm sure my DD has a MTHFR polymorphism as she is sensitive to amines but her tolerance is greatly increased by supplementing Folapro (folate--all types are not created equal) and certain forms of B12.
Tell me more. I'm intrigued.


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#309 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 08:47 PM
 
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Do you use symptoms instead of blood testing? <snip>

I can totally see how you could interview someone and figure out their genetics and what to feed them, but I don't have my head quite there, yet. Knowing me, I probably will in a week though
I hope you can use symptoms and I'm rooting for you to understand it in a week! Then you can write the Biochemistry for Dummies and be famous.


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#310 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 08:54 PM
 
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I think so, at least sometimes...and also by what food chemicals you react to. Emma (owner of the www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com site) was quite good at predicting people's genes based on their reactions to various things (verified by Yasko's genetic testing). I'm sure my DD has a MTHFR polymorphism as she is sensitive to amines but her tolerance is greatly increased by supplementing Folapro (folate--all types are not created equal) and certain forms of B12.
I missed this. This is what we are doing as well along with B6, biotin and intracellular glutathione (with N acetyl cysteine.) Does your dd require vast amounts of protein to help with the methylation as well? And are at the point yet of finding magnesium helpful?
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#311 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:02 PM
 
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Homeopathic medicine works in a very different way. Knowing the biochemistry, A&P and differential diagnosis is invaluable...but you rarely look for the nitty gritty details in the way that you are. Those aren't necessary to treat homeopathically. Does that make sense? It is VERY important to know that if you are looking to become a nutritionist or herbalist. As with anything different weight is placed on different knowledge in different fields. Clinical nutrition has it's place in homeopathy but it's not a central place.
I appreciated this explanation. And I'm looking at this from an evolutionary point of view. There are whole foods which addressed these issues historically. And I want to find the most nutrient dense or most traditional routes of nourishing our bodies holistically. The herbal component intrigues me, however. And of course, our lost biodiversity...and our environmental toxins...distort the possibilities.


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#312 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:28 PM
 
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Pat,
It's one of the reasons that a truly integrative center would be amazing. There is actually a hospital here that has a monthly meeting that is focused on integrative medicine. The resident brings the cases and meets with the board which consists of an MD, and osteopath, an herbalist, an acupuncturist and OMD, a homeopath, an therapist that uses TAT, a massage therapist, a personal trainer etc. and discusses the 2 or three cases each month. The patients selected get the benefit of all the perspectives.

I would love this on a larger scale but more full time. I think every difficult case should demand this kind of scrutiny. There is no way in ANY modality to see the whole picture. You see what you were trained to see and as much as we'd like to think so there is no one perfect modality. There are several great modalities and if the practitioners are open enough to hear input and have "alliances" if you will (yes, survivor starts tonight ) with people in other fields healthcare could look VERY different.

Some people will have affinities for certain kinds of care. There was a case in the office I precept in where a patient kept coming in looking for one modality, but it wasn't working. IN the appointments her language and manner indicated another medium altogether. Because the doctor was trained in both she simply dropped the one that wasn't working and used the one that the patient seemed subconsciously drawn to. If you yourself can't offer that but can refer to someone who can....the possibilities are endless.

As you well know we move through phases. Some people need nutritional intervention, some need energy medicine, some need structural work and so on and so forth. Instead of cramming a square peg into a round hole because it's your specialty it should be a dynamic system where patients are supported and nurtured where they are so that they CAN move forward in healing. If that means someone comes to me for homeopathy but clearly needs an adjustment I'm not going to waste their time. I would rather be upfront and let them make an informed choice rather than insisting I can diminish pain with homeopathy (I can....but the underlying problem won't be addressed.) Once they have been adjusted perhaps they will come back and the case will then be more clear.
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#313 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:31 PM
 
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PB,
Have I told you lately that I you?

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#314 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:41 PM
 
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I missed this. This is what we are doing as well along with B6, biotin and intracellular glutathione (with N acetyl cysteine.) Does your dd require vast amounts of protein to help with the methylation as well? And are at the point yet of finding magnesium helpful?
What process does the biotin fit in to? Cause that one's huge for me (makes the difference between being able to digest carbs or not!) but I haven't seen it in the diagrams yet. Off to consult Shils...

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#315 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:45 PM
 
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I am so jealous of everyone on here who understands what everyone else is talking about.

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Overwhelmed in Michigan
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#316 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:47 PM
 
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I am so jealous of everyone on here who understands what everyone else is talking about.

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Overwhelmed in Michigan
How far are you from me again? If it's within an hour I'll come over for a coffee break study session.

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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#317 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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okay, I'm getting SO confused with all these huge threads and what I've posted where...
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...bstacle-course

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#318 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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What process does the biotin fit in to? Cause that one's huge for me (makes the difference between being able to digest carbs or not!) but I haven't seen it in the diagrams yet. Off to consult Shils...
Acetyl coA. So in the acetylation detox pathway and krebs cycle. I haven't attacked krebs cycle yet...

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#319 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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Ah krebs cycle.
I"m getting all geeked for our biochem study group.

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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#320 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 09:58 PM
 
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What process does the biotin fit in to? Cause that one's huge for me (makes the difference between being able to digest carbs or not!) but I haven't seen it in the diagrams yet. Off to consult Shils...
I'm sure I ran into biotin in my snooping last night. If I find it again I'll link you...

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#321 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 10:04 PM
 
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I missed this. This is what we are doing as well along with B6, biotin and intracellular glutathione (with N acetyl cysteine.) Does your dd require vast amounts of protein to help with the methylation as well? And are at the point yet of finding magnesium helpful?
So are you at all worried about partially open pathways? I haven't figured out if I want to just add folate then see what I need next, or if I want to try to get things totally open then do the folate. Okay, writing that I know the answer is to just do the folate cause otherwise it's all guesswork anyway. Yeah? Forms of folate?

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#322 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 10:11 PM
 
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Acetyl coA. So in the acetylation detox pathway and krebs cycle. I haven't attacked krebs cycle yet...
Dude. You answered your own question while I ate dinner. Look at you go! :
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#323 of 441 Old 02-12-2009, 10:24 PM
 
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ok, dd is not going to be able to sleep without me holding and rocking her tonight again so i cant catch up on this thread right now but am so dying to. you chicks are smarties. holy crap, this is like college bio all over again (but way more interesting). thank you for all the pos feedback, ill hopefully be knee-deep in pathways, mthfr , maginesium, biotin, etc tomorrow. and i think im going to go back to taking my remedy cause we dont appear to be sleeping no matter what. bbl
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#324 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 05:01 AM
 
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Wow. I'm glad I checked out this thread. This has helped me understand a little bit more about detoxification. I have really just glanced over some stuff, though. At any rate, I'm understanding a bit more about the supps my chiro wants me to take.

I took a functional metabolic test that measured detox pathways (well, measured chemicals linked to them), cellular energy, neural function, bacteria, fatty acids, and B vitamin insufficiency. I was definitely B-vit deficient, my trans-fatty acids are high , I have too much acidopholus, and my something is up with my sulfate pathway. (OK, I checked out WhoMe's link about detox pathways last night and am at a different computer..can't look back at it for proper verbiage.) And I have that leaky gut going on of course.

So, I am taking L-Glutamine, a B complex, Betaine HCl, and enzymes, so far. My pendulum told me I ned a calcium supp, so I got that too. Next to introduce (and these are the iffy ones due to a soy ingredient or chelation issues) are NAC, a lipoic acid supp, a whole-food multi, and CoQ10. My pendulum tells me the LA and the NAC will be safe for me to take while BFing DS (he's 17 months) and my chiro's wife, an LC, has researched these and feels comfortable with me taking them. I do consult my crystal in the order to intro the supps, I think I'm to start the NAC Saturday. I'm going pretty slowly with the introductions. I started the CoQ10 the other day but the next day the pendulum told me to stop taking it. I think the soy in it caused a reaction in both me and DS (we're both IgG sensitive), and I admit I had been eating a little chocolate each day. Cumulative reaction perhaps?

Oh, and my pendulum says that I am having problems processing zinc. I need to go back and read what has been said about that. Last time I ate beets, many moons ago, I did have the pink pee I think. I can't piece the info together...this is the Panserbjorne, hold my hand thread, right?

Anyway, I have been meaning to post the results of the testing but never got around to it and this seemed the right place, what with the talk about detox pathways.

Sorry if this is rambly. Off to bed!
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#325 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 10:30 AM
 
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So are you at all worried about partially open pathways? I haven't figured out if I want to just add folate then see what I need next, or if I want to try to get things totally open then do the folate. Okay, writing that I know the answer is to just do the folate cause otherwise it's all guesswork anyway. Yeah? Forms of folate?
I'm still waiting to hear back from that doctor....hopefully I do before your appointment today!

And yes...you answered your own question! I know that different people tolerate different forms or rather experience results from different forms. We are using L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate. Otherwise known as L-5-MTHF. This seems to get great results in compromised folks.
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#326 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 01:11 PM
 
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I'm still waiting to hear back from that doctor....hopefully I do before your appointment today!

And yes...you answered your own question! I know that different people tolerate different forms or rather experience results from different forms. We are using L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate. Otherwise known as L-5-MTHF. This seems to get great results in compromised folks.
Cool.

I was reading this link about using all this to treat chronic fatigue. The author was worried about releasing toxins too fast by adding folate too quickly. My head is only giving me flickers of understanding at this point, but is this somehow related to the homeopathic doses of toxins to open up the pathways you're talking about?

Something about releasing toxins with the methyl cycle but not having other pathways open to release them? Or having them just create a blockade somewhere else? And teeny tiny doses will be let out without creating a blockade? And... head hurts...

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#327 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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Off I go, wish me luck!

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#328 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 06:59 PM
 
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rats! I still haven't connected with her!
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#329 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 07:16 PM
 
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I am so jealous of everyone on here who understands what everyone else is talking about.

Signed,
Overwhelmed in Michigan
I haven't caught up beyond this post yet, but I have to wholeheartedly concur. I haven't had enough time lately to do the reading that I'd like and I'm feeling like crap again. Well, not total crap, but there's obviously something big that I'm still missing. For both myself and DS. I'm thinking it's clogged detox pathways too, but I'm not processing how to figure out which ones and what to do about it. Any tips on what to ask my doctor in two weeks to see if she can figure it out? I think she would be really interested in this if she isn't already aware of it (using the homeopathy for drainage and such).

<>< Alison
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#330 of 441 Old 02-13-2009, 10:40 PM
 
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rats! I still haven't connected with her!
The appointment wasn't that helpful in the short term. Basically I pointed out how she misinterpreted my test, then told her to go back and study her biochem She wasn't quite as excited as I am

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