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#361 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 02:56 PM
 
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starting at the top on your daughter's test for the stuff that looks more interesting, from Cutler's HTI book...
aluminum: accurately reflects body burden
antimony: hair is a good measure, check your pajamas (antimony is used as a flame-retardant in kids' PJs : my daughter's was also somewhat high)
arsenic: accurately reflects body burden

magnesium: usually moves opposite to body stores, so may be a bit low
manganese: accurately reflects body stores
molybdenum: accurately reflect body stores... need to read more, a lot of what he wrote isn't relevant to your situation...
iodine: accurate,
lithium: accurate, varies a lot based on geographic location (amt in soil/food), it's calming and mood-stabilizing, low-dose lithium supplementation (far below the amts used for bipolar) is available, I know a reasonable number of people on the mercury toxicity lists I'm on use it without problems
strontium: accurate, low strontium correlates with tooth decay, soft bones and heart disease, but the lower Ca intake in the diet is, the more susceptible a person would be to strontium toxicity (otherwise it's not very toxic at all, even supplementing)
cobalt: not known if hair cobalt correlates to body stores
germanium: not known if hair germanium correlates to body stores
zirconium: accurate, not terribly worrisome

And a place that I read to learn about where the potentially toxic metals, where they are in our environment...

http://www.danasview.net/metals.htm

In general, having some toxic things in the yellow isn't unexpected, statistically. Reading about aluminum, you'll see that our bodies mostly excrete it well if we reduce the amt we consume (I had to make a lot of changes to what we cook in), but it's not like you're eating lots of processed cheese. I'd probably try to figure out where the antimony is coming from.
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#362 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
Oh right, counting rules. I seem to remember seeing the counting rules on a site somewhere.
Here's our local discussion of the counting rules...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=30
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#363 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 03:15 PM
 
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lithium: accurate, varies a lot based on geographic location (amt in soil/food), it's calming and mood-stabilizing, low-dose lithium supplementation (far below the amts used for bipolar) is available, I know a reasonable number of people on the mercury toxicity lists I'm on use it without problems
Sorry to go OT but regarding bipolar...
Actually, that depends on how you're being treated... Whether by mainstream or alternative approaches. There are 2 forms of lithium: lithium orotate and lithium carbonate.
Lithium carbonate needs to be given in doses bordering on toxic in order to be effective. Lithium orotate is given in micro-doses but is more bio-available.
I know several people who have successfully treated their bipolar with lithium orotate after everything "mainstream" failed. It's pretty rare to find a *psychiatrist* who will agree to giving lithium orotate though. The people I know who are treating bipolar with lithium orotate all had to go through homeopaths or NDs to get their orotate (with the exception of one who had a psychiatrist who "dabbled" in holistic approaches).

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#364 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 03:33 PM
 
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mom's test...

magnesium: moves opposite body stores, likely low
sodium: not indicative of intake or body stores
chromium: accurate,
iodine: accurate
lithium: accurate
cobalt: not known if hair cobalt correlates to body stores
rubidium: probably not indicative of body stores, but

Some of the commentary before was more aimed at you.

The Na/Mg ratio (8/23) <1 means some level of adrenal fatigue is going on. At some point, reading the Adrenal Fatigue thread and addressing it in some way may be helpful.
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#365 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
Sorry to go OT but regarding bipolar...
Actually, that depends on how you're being treated... Whether by mainstream or alternative approaches. There are 2 forms of lithium: lithium orotate and lithium carbonate.
Lithium carbonate needs to be given in doses bordering on toxic in order to be effective. Lithium orotate is given in micro-doses but is more bio-available.
I know several people who have successfully treated their bipolar with lithium orotate after everything "mainstream" failed. It's pretty rare to find a *psychiatrist* who will agree to giving lithium orotate though. The people I know who are treating bipolar with lithium orotate all had to go through homeopaths or NDs to get their orotate (with the exception of one who had a psychiatrist who "dabbled" in holistic approaches).
I didn't realize bipolar was ever treated with low-dose lithium. Interesting. But I wanted to discuss it a bit because the risks/side effects of lithium supplementation for bipolar people are somewhat well-known, and this probably isn't the same thing people would immediately think of.
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#366 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Tanya!! I'm just flying by threads today... my mom is flying in tonight for the week, so I won't have too much time to look further at this stuff. But I really do appreciate all your help.

eta: I forgot to say... I try to buy the pj's that are labeled as NOT containing the flame retardants, but of course I have some that are second hand, and some aren't marked. And we do have a regular crib mattress, which I'm sure is loaded with the stuff. I use a thick organic mattress pad and cotton sheets on top of it... I wonder if that helps at all. hmmm..

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#367 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 06:54 PM
 
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I didn't realize bipolar was ever treated with low-dose lithium. Interesting. But I wanted to discuss it a bit because the risks/side effects of lithium supplementation for bipolar people are somewhat well-known, and this probably isn't the same thing people would immediately think of.
No, I understand. Interestingly enough (to me), the lithium orotate is used in conjunction with a diet very similar to the one we're discussing on this forum lately...
Maybe I should get ahold of Moss and get him to jump over here. For all I know, it's the *same* diet.

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#368 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JacquelineR View Post
No, I understand. Interestingly enough (to me), the lithium orotate is used in conjunction with a diet very similar to the one we're discussing on this forum lately...
Maybe I should get ahold of Moss and get him to jump over here. For all I know, it's the *same* diet.
I'd be curious about that diet. I've read that lithium presence in the water of different states is correlated with imprisonment numbers, aggressive assault charges and suicide rates, even along the same latitude (accounting for vit D/sunlight) in Texas. Varies Arizona and Illinois. But, the same findings were documented in Tx, based upon lithium in the water. Apparently, we all need some lithium, and it is present in *high mineral water*. And some foods.

Food Sources of Lithium:
  • Dairy Products
  • Eggs
  • Lemons
  • Natural brines
  • Potatoes
  • Sugar Cane
  • Trinity Water
  • Vegetables
  • Tomatoes
  • Green and hot peppers
  • Beef liver
  • Eggplant
  • Whole Grains
  • Leafy vegetables
  • Legumes
  • Seafood
  • Yeast

Herb Sources of Lithium:
  • Plant ash (shale)
  • Seaweed
  • Tobacco

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#369 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, no wonder her lithium is low... We can't have anything on that list! Except the generic "vegetables."

Man, I really really REALLY want eggs back. I feel like they could really patch up some of the holes in our diet (nutrition-wise.)

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#370 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:20 PM
 
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Well, but your lithium is low so that's probably the bigger factor, I'd think. And if you've been living in the area a while, it's likely the area is low (both my parents are low as well, and they've been in the Pacific Northwest for close to 30 yrs now). Other things vary a lot geographically (in the soil), like selenium and iodine.
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#371 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:21 PM
 
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I'd be curious about that diet. I've read that lithium presence in the water of different states is correlated with imprisonment numbers, aggressive assault charges and suicide rates, even along the same latitude (accounting for vit D/sunlight) in Texas. Varies Arizona and Illinois. But, the same findings were documented in Tx, based upon lithium in the water. Apparently, we all need some lithium, and it is present in *high mineral water*. And some foods.
Allow me to re-phrase.
They *supplemented* with nutrients which we're finding out are central to detox pathways. Now *I'm* thinking it could be done primarily with diet.

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#372 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quick question that just popped in my head while making dinner...

If DD's levels are so much higher than mine, then it must be (at least partially) environmental exposure, right? I just read on the test sheet that one source for antimony is cigg smoke... and after complaining for a year, we finally got our upstairs neighbor to stop smoking inside (or she's at least smoking less, so that we can't smell it) because it was just coming straight into our apartment the whole time I was pregnant and after DD was born.

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#373 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:25 PM
 
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Have you seen this site before: http://nomoresids.com/ ?

They sell mattress covers there, under the hypothesis that the off-gassing and/or fungus growth on mattresses causes sids. It's pretty cheap for the crib mattress cover I think, and that would take care of that possibility!
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#374 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:31 PM
 
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Quick question that just popped in my head while making dinner...

If DD's levels are so much higher than mine, then it must be (at least partially) environmental exposure, right? I just read on the test sheet that one source for antimony is cigg smoke... and after complaining for a year, we finally got our upstairs neighbor to stop smoking inside (or she's at least smoking less, so that we can't smell it) because it was just coming straight into our apartment the whole time I was pregnant and after DD was born.
Well, but you were exposed to that, too, and yours is really, really low. That's why I was thinking some sort of clothing, bedding, like that, something that she was exposed to much more than you.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/33670

I did this with the problematic pajamas (I actually did it with most of the kids' clothing and especially the bedding, since I'm not sure how much washes off and transfers in the wash, so I figured doing all the clothes was a better bet). Next time we buy any, it'll be organic, but we've swapped out so much in the past 2 years, I just couldn't do any more.
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#375 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, the crib is side-carred, and she's usually sleeping right up against me on my mattress... she's rarely on her own mattress. And in the same token, I am sleeping just as close to it as she is. I did wash all the pj's in hot when I got them, but maybe I do that a few more times.

I thought maybe her levels would be higher just because she's so much smaller, even if we were exposed to the same stuff. ??

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#376 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:53 PM
 
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It's not just hot water--do you normally wash with washing soda? It's a particular chemical, and he's saying that chemical is what's needed to get the nasty chemicals out. I bought like 6 or 8 boxes and dumped in a box with each load of the kids' clothes to try to get that stuff out. And for good measure, I washed them again with borax a couple times, I don't remember the link now, but 5-ish washings with borax (not sure of the concentration, may be a lot more than is usual) cuts down the chemicals too. And then I washed a few times in plain hot water to get the washing chemicals out.

I think kids do detoxify worse than us, in general, but it's such a huge difference between you two. I mean--she's showing it in her hair, and you're not. My parents have toxic profiles like yours, but they're both mercury toxic and their bodies aren't able to excrete anything, so I think they have massive hidden stores of all sorts of stuff. But mercury isn't your issue, and your daughter's mobilizing it when you aren't, so that makes me guess that she's been exposed to more than you. You know, sonnambula's back, she'd have better guesses than I do.
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#377 of 441 Old 03-02-2009, 11:58 PM
 
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i thought car-seat covers were pretty bad about having high levels of various flame-retardant chemicals?

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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#378 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 12:13 AM
 
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Shoot, that's familiar, and I haven't done a darn thing with our carseat covers. Argh. I _really_ need to find a local store with washing soda!!

eta: I just re-looked at the danasview site and that's not the one I was thinking of! I know I've seen another with a much longer list of sources.
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#379 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 12:21 AM
 
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#380 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 12:37 AM
 
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Man, I really really REALLY want eggs back. I feel like they could really patch up some of the holes in our diet (nutrition-wise.)
Have you tried cooked egg yolks?

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#381 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Well, no wonder her lithium is low... We can't have anything on that list! Except the generic "vegetables."

Man, I really really REALLY want eggs back. I feel like they could really patch up some of the holes in our diet (nutrition-wise.)
Lithium can change the level at which parathyroid hormone is released. Why is that relevant? Because that's part of what sets your blood calcium level. Didn't you post earlier that dd has high blood calcium?

(disclaimer, I just know they're related, I don't know if the high/low combo you have actually fits with the physiology)

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#382 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 02:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It's not just hot water--do you normally wash with washing soda? It's a particular chemical, and he's saying that chemical is what's needed to get the nasty chemicals out. I bought like 6 or 8 boxes and dumped in a box with each load of the kids' clothes to try to get that stuff out. And for good measure, I washed them again with borax a couple times, I don't remember the link now, but 5-ish washings with borax (not sure of the concentration, may be a lot more than is usual) cuts down the chemicals too. And then I washed a few times in plain hot water to get the washing chemicals out.

I think kids do detoxify worse than us, in general, but it's such a huge difference between you two. I mean--she's showing it in her hair, and you're not. My parents have toxic profiles like yours, but they're both mercury toxic and their bodies aren't able to excrete anything, so I think they have massive hidden stores of all sorts of stuff. But mercury isn't your issue, and your daughter's mobilizing it when you aren't, so that makes me guess that she's been exposed to more than you. You know, sonnambula's back, she'd have better guesses than I do.
Oh yeah- the washing soda. I have to find that somewhere too- I've never seen it in a store. I do have Borax though, so mabye I'll try that for now.

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Have you tried cooked egg yolks?

Pat
Nope. I have a slight suspicion that eggs might be IgE for DD (I have no reason for that belief other than the fact that her reactions to egg were pretty bad, even when I had a tiny bit even totally processed. But I haven't had them for about a year, so who knows.) So I'm waiting until our next allergy appointment (2 months) and I will ask her to add eggs to the SPT list.

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Lithium can change the level at which parathyroid hormone is released. Why is that relevant? Because that's part of what sets your blood calcium level. Didn't you post earlier that dd has high blood calcium?

(disclaimer, I just know they're related, I don't know if the high/low combo you have actually fits with the physiology)
Interesting. Yeah, her blood calcium was right on the high end of normal.

So I was thinking about this high molybdenum thing tonight... and how that related to the sulfur stuff (sorry, brain is too fried to make all the connections)... and looked up sulfur containing foods. Discovered that every single food on the list is something that DD reacts to, except broccoli. So at first glance I thought that it was definitely a problem processing sulfur (sulfate pathway??), but then the broccoli threw me for a loop because we eat that every day.

Bleh... too sleepy to figure this out right now.

eta: I hope that FF/PB/SB comes to hold my hand and give me some of her wisdom soon.

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#383 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 02:56 AM
 
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eta: I hope that FF/PB/SB comes to hold my hand and give me some of her wisdom soon.
To summon She Who Must Not Be Named, you must use the three magic phrases plus a little pixie dust:

Homeopathy.

Flower essences.

Pascalite Clay.


Now, clap three times... throw a little salt over your shoulder... and let's see how long it takes for her to show up.
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To summon She Who Must Not Be Named, you must use the three magic phrases plus a little pixie dust:

Homeopathy.

Flower essences.

Pascalite Clay.


Now, clap three times... throw a little salt over your shoulder... and let's see how long it takes for her to show up.
.....
You forgot to jump into the faerie ring.

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.....
You forgot to jump into the faerie ring.
Darn it, I *knew* I was missing a step!

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#386 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 10:50 AM
 
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Maybe she's been busy making some flower essences for "someone"
And don't forget she's in school! She's a busy, busy girl.
Oh, and weren't you supposed to sacrifice that virgin chicken?

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#387 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 01:39 PM
 
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So I was thinking about this high molybdenum thing tonight... and how that related to the sulfur stuff (sorry, brain is too fried to make all the connections)... and looked up sulfur containing foods. Discovered that every single food on the list is something that DD reacts to, except broccoli. So at first glance I thought that it was definitely a problem processing sulfur (sulfate pathway??), but then the broccoli threw me for a loop because we eat that every day.
It might not be the specific sulphur food which is the issue, but the lack of a specific nutrient necessary to *process* the sulphur; but which is present in broccoli. See what I mean?

If vit xyz is present in broccoli and is necessary to process sulphur = no reaction.

But, If vit xyz is absent in the other sulphur foods, you get a reaction. Add vit xyz and the other sulphur foods are able to be processed, perhaps.

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#388 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It might not be the specific sulphur food which is the issue, but the lack of a specific nutrient necessary to *process* the sulphur; but which is present in broccoli. See what I mean?

If vit xyz is present in broccoli and is necessary to process sulphur = no reaction.

But, If vit xyz is absent in the other sulphur foods, you get a reaction. Add vit xyz and the other sulphur foods are able to be processed, perhaps.

Pat
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. But in this case, it's a matter of having too much of the nutrient (molybdenum.)

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#389 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 02:27 PM
 
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It might not be the specific sulphur food which is the issue, but the lack of a specific nutrient necessary to *process* the sulphur; but which is present in broccoli. See what I mean?

If vit xyz is present in broccoli and is necessary to process sulphur = no reaction.

But, If vit xyz is absent in the other sulphur foods, you get a reaction. Add vit xyz and the other sulphur foods are able to be processed, perhaps.

Pat
Let's puzzle it out... What's everything you know about broccoli? I'll see if anything rings a bell.

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#390 of 441 Old 03-03-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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Let's puzzle it out... What's everything you know about broccoli? I'll see if anything rings a bell.
Nutritional profile from WHFoods.

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