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#181 of 441 Old 02-08-2009, 11:05 PM
 
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Wow, just wow.

ETA: Interesting because in addition to carrots being an issue, I think apples were too. So that would make sense, carrots and apples.
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#182 of 441 Old 02-08-2009, 11:19 PM
 
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I would love to forward this study to my ND....I think she would really like it.
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#183 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 12:47 AM
 
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hmmm. i think we failed cucumbers today. we have also suspected chamomile and melon in the past. i used to have a SERIOUSLY horrendous rxn to ragweed in the late summer, but since going GF it hasn't been that bad. thinking.......

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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#184 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 12:58 AM
 
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I would love to forward this study to my ND....I think she would really like it.
Well, this is just a summary. If you want more I think I can give it. I will try and post it tomorrow. I have all the info in a book and binder, but I'm going to see if I can post sites and links here.

If you want I can clean up my write up (ya know, take the "duh" out and such ) so you can send it on. I'm sure she'd prefer the source though.
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#185 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Doctor's Data again, and again they told me that the Hair Elements test was $109. I said- "really? because the person who referred me to this test got it not long ago and paid $45." She was quite short with me and said that maybe that was a discount that the doctor gave her, and that $109 was the only price she had.

Any ideas PB? I would really like to get it done for DD and I, but there's no way I can afford both if they're really that much.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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#186 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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If you don't have a doctor to order it, I would go through Direct labs and use the yahoo group reference. That way you can at the very least get it down to seventy some-odd dollars. I'm sorry, that sucks. BUT $218 is a heck of alot more than $150ish.
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#187 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I guess I'll do that. I was just really looking forward to a nice cheap $45 test.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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#188 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 03:07 PM
 
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That is so cool. I wish I could get DP in, because he's a bit skeptical of the whole thing, but we just can't afford it.

Very cool stuff that you wrote about. I will also be reading and re-reading. So this is research (about the phenolics) going on right now? That is really exciting.
nak, yeah those!
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#189 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 03:27 PM
 
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You can figure out alot by grouping the foods that they are reacting to into pollen classes and addressing it that way as opposed to always searching for the next foods. IN the case of birch pollen allergies you can know (kinda upfront) that your kid may have an issue with: Apples, pears, peaches, apricots, cherries, plums, nectarines, prunes, kiwi, carrots, celery, potatoes, peppers, fennel, parsley, coriander, parsnips, hazelnuts, almonds and walnuts.
This does not really ring true for me. I'm IgG to apples, carrots, celery, plums/prunes, and almonds from the above list. All the others are definitely okay for me.

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#190 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 03:42 PM
 
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Well, this is just a summary. If you want more I think I can give it. I will try and post it tomorrow. I have all the info in a book and binder, but I'm going to see if I can post sites and links here.

If you want I can clean up my write up (ya know, take the "duh" out and such ) so you can send it on. I'm sure she'd prefer the source though.
I don't want to make more work for you, and I don't want to send on anything you don't want me to. I will recommend that book you listed though.
You're knowledge is greatly appreciated!!
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#191 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 03:47 PM
 
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right. That's why I said *may* be an issue. It's a clue. It's similar to the allergists that say if you have a reaction to two or more foods in the same family it's best to avoid the family. You may NOT react to the entire family...but in those instances based on the statistics you are better safe than sorry.

However it's also possible that you have no issue with the actual foods. People who react to peanut and soy are often told to be wary of legumes in general. What my be happening though is not that you have an issue with peanuts or soy, but aspergillus. If that's the case beans may all be fine, but cashews will not. There is never going to be one defining blanket statement when it comes to these things as there are too many variables.

What I posted about the pollen families doesn't take into account the phenolics, which would be sort of part two. But for mamas at home dealing with a highly reactive kiddo this is one more piece of info, you know? IF you see patterns in this grouping and it helps, that's great. If you see partial patterns then you start looking at the common phenolics.
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#192 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 03:59 PM
 
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okay...so while this might be more frustrating than helpful to some, here is a link:
http://www.desbio.com/phenolics.html

this is an interactive tool that you can select on the left side what foods you are reactive too and it will bring up the phenolics that are common to them. Now, you aren't going to be able to do much with it without a practitioner but you can at least start getting info.

So if you ask it to show foods and if you are reactive to banana, avocado and apple then you select them. It will show as a chart and tell you what phenolics are in all three, two, or just one of them.

This site doesn't have as much info as I have in the book....but it's got a LOT. they don't list the phenolics and corresponding illnesses and manifestations on it which was my favorite part. But there is an excerpt under articles that has a partial condensed description of what I was reading...so that would be a good place to send practitioners. IF they are licensed they can get more info straight from the company.

Happy clicking!
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#193 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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Interesting. Last year both my kids ended up at the ped. in the fall with constant coughing. The dr said it was allergies. DS had a super positive skin reaction to ragweed out of the 12-14 things they tested him for. This fall, since they've been off everything they reacted to in June on the ALCAT test, neither of them had any signs of allergy (no sniffles, runny nose, coughing). Is it an allergy load thing or a food/phenolic thing?

I'm going to look at the chart and see where we come up because my kids still seem to be everywhere on the lists, reacting to some but not others (the same goes with food families).

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#194 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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However it's also possible that you have no issue with the actual foods. People who react to peanut and soy are often told to be wary of legumes in general. What my be happening though is not that you have an issue with peanuts or soy, but aspergillus. If that's the case beans may all be fine, but cashews will not. There is never going to be one defining blanket statement when it comes to these things as there are too many variables.
Whoa whoa WHOA- back the truck up. What is the connection between legumes and aspergillus? After having violent reactions to 3 different brands (and types) of enzymes, I narrowed it down to the only common denominator of aspergillus. And peanuts/soy/legumes are a huge no-no for us right now.

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#195 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 04:26 PM
 
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I would assume that cashews would be on that list too...

Aspergillus is a mold to which many people are highly reactive. It can look just like allergies. Of course it wouldn't be to the food proteins, but to the mold that is growing on the foods. Some foods are "naturally" extremely high in aspergillus.
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#196 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I would assume that cashews would be on that list too...

Aspergillus is a mold to which many people are highly reactive. It can look just like allergies. Of course it wouldn't be to the food proteins, but to the mold that is growing on the foods. Some foods are "naturally" extremely high in aspergillus.
Actually, we've never tried cashews. I took all nuts & legumes out after DD tested positive on RAST and SPT to peanuts, and she reacted to soy and almonds.

Crazy. How come I never knew that connection? Seriously- I learn something new from you every day.

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#197 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 04:38 PM
 
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Well, if nothing else, that link you provided explains why DS1 showed a reaction to Lamb/mutton on testing, PB.
His phenolic reactions appear to be to Asparagine, Quercetin, Rutin and Coumarin. Although he doesn't seem to react to some of the things he "should"... Although I haven't taken them out, so... hmm.

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#198 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 05:14 PM
 
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remember too that often phenols will be an issue of critical mass so you have to look at how many foods contain it. Often an exposure won't be major, but if you eat three things that all have the same phenolics *then* you would see a reaction.
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#199 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 05:40 PM
 
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People who react to peanut and soy are often told to be wary of legumes in general. What my be happening though is not that you have an issue with peanuts or soy, but aspergillus.
This is us: I react to soy and just trialed peanuts yesterday. The jury is out on the peanuts, but I FOR SURE react to cashews - last exposure was borderline ana, despite having it come back negative on a blood test (haven't done SPT on it yet, b/c I know it's going to be pos and itch like a UAV).

Point? Now I'm going to go research aspergillus.

I also wanted to add, if you are ANYWHERE near northern Michigan I will drive hours and hours to come and be a (paying) client. You are a WEALTH of info.

And like someone posted in one of these threads I'm following lately, (Tanya I think), it seems things pop up in clusters around me and sort of focus my attention on certain areas. I just got into rotational diets and food families after mucking around with FAILSAFE for awhile. Now I'm looking at phenols and pollen families. It's awesome. I love the ebb and flow around here. I love how things pop up just when you need them.

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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#200 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:20 PM
 
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okay...so while this might be more frustrating than helpful to some, here is a link:
http://www.desbio.com/phenolics.html

this is an interactive tool that you can select on the left side what foods you are reactive too and it will bring up the phenolics that are common to them. Now, you aren't going to be able to do much with it without a practitioner but you can at least start getting info.

So if you ask it to show foods and if you are reactive to banana, avocado and apple then you select them. It will show as a chart and tell you what phenolics are in all three, two, or just one of them.
I couldn't figure it out. I chose foods. But it doesn't list foods, just additives (or what it calls phenolics). So I chose the ones that DS reacted to (the food colorings and benzoic acid) and it gave me a slew of foods, most that he's safe with. So I don't get it. Help me Obi-wan-Panserbjørne, you're my only hope.

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#201 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:24 PM
 
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Dude. I almost just wet myself.

Okee dokee. You select foods under the left hand column. Then the column shows foods. After that each thing you click on will bring up phenolics. HTH!
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#202 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:28 PM
 
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Dude. I almost just wet myself.

Okee dokee. You select foods under the left hand column. Then the column shows foods. After that each thing you click on will bring up phenolics. HTH!
Yeah, I was confused at first too. I was like "Where does it list foods?!"
Under "All Phenolics", if you go to the bottom of the list, there's other headings: DesBio Phenolics, Foods and Pollens. Just click on Foods and it'll bring up a list of foods. When you click on the foods, then it shows you in the box to the right a list of phenolics which are in that food, and it'll arrange the phenolics according to what is most common in the foods you select.

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#203 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Can anyone else get it to save? I can't print it, because I've got so many foods on there that they take the entire page, and I only end up with like 3 phenolics on each page. So it would print a million pages, and be really hard to read.

But it won't let me save it....

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#204 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:40 PM
 
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Can anyone else get it to save? I can't print it, because I've got so many foods on there that they take the entire page, and I only end up with like 3 phenolics on each page. So it would print a million pages, and be really hard to read.

But it won't let me save it....
Just out of curiosity... is there a phenolic which you *don't* have a check mark under?
I didn't try to save mine so I'm no help. Sorry.

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#205 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just out of curiosity... is there a phenolic which you *don't* have a check mark under?
I didn't try to save mine so I'm no help. Sorry.
Ha ha funny. No, I'm sure there's not. But I can't see, because the foods pushed the phenolic chart right off the bottom of the window. That's why I'm trying to save it. I guess I should just put in a few foods at a time.

ETA: I took a couple foods off so that I could see the chart, and there actually are a bunch with no check marks!

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#206 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting... the 2 phenolics that had the most checkmarks across the chart for DD's foods were quercetin and rutin. So I looked at what foods those are in, and it mostly makes sense. Except beets have both, and we're ok with beets. And blueberries. And buckwheat. Ok, the farther I read the more it doesn't really fit.

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#207 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 07:52 PM
 
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Ha ha funny. No, I'm sure there's not. But I can't see, because the foods pushed the phenolic chart right off the bottom of the window. That's why I'm trying to save it. I guess I should just put in a few foods at a time.

ETA: I took a couple foods off so that I could see the chart, and there actually are a bunch with no check marks!
That's cool. I wasn't trying to be funny, I was being serious.

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#208 of 441 Old 02-09-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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the thing is that most foods have lots of different phenolics, and some phenolics are more popular than others... I had lots of reactions to quercitin and rutin too, but are they just in everything? It might be better - though more tedious to go through the phenolics and look at the food listings for patterns?

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#209 of 441 Old 02-10-2009, 12:18 AM
 
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So I'm late to the party but...

changingseasons, back to your OT... we had more success w/ adding foods in when I would give it a few days instead of pulling it due to bad sleep (barring other obviously bad reactions!) I look first at his skin and stool... if those are ok then I'll consider it a pass even w/ bad sleep UNLESS he also naps badly and/or headbangs. For some reason if he naps ok the food is ok even if he sleeps badly that night. It turns out that for us, too many other things can cause nightwaking... anyway, thought I'd share my experience.

Panserbjørne, you made a post a while back about the "metal look" and it really jumped out at me. My DS (almost 2) definitely has the puffy look... in fact, that explains why people ALWAYS say "oh he's so healthy looking, look how chubby!" then are shocked to hear his weight. Even the ped is always confused about his low weight for the way he looks. Anyway, also he had some seriously late dentition (only had seven teeth until a few months ago.) I started adhering to a totally traditional foods type diet a few months ago and then 9 teeth are now popping through (at once!!)

I immediately emailed the ped (ND) about the hair test, and he told me he only does the challenge urine test. I have a question for you, 'cause you wrote:

Quote:
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The only urine test we have available here is a provoked challenge which I would NOT recommend.
And I wrote the ped back and said that I would prefer not to do the chelation challenge test and would rather the hair test. Haven't heard back but I realized I don't understand this. I know next to nothing about chelation, but say we got a hair test for DS that came back positive. Isn't chelation the way to get rid of the metals? So.... why would that chelation be ok but not the challenge? Are they different somehow, like the strength of it is different or something? Thanks for all the guidance and suggestions you're giving us...
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#210 of 441 Old 02-10-2009, 12:25 AM
 
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quercetin, rutin, coumarin and apiol seem to be our biggies, in that order.

pb, "that metal look" and late dentition jumped out at me too. we have 5 teeth at 16 mos. by "puffiness", do you mean it 's the same thing as edema? sorry, that may seem obvious, but im just trying to figure out if dd is just plump with the cutest cheeks in town, or if she fits your description.
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