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Old 02-03-2009, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Everything is failing. Every single food trial that I do. I'm starting to get a little concerned about it.

In the past month, I have trialed rice, sweet potatoes, and bananas. All fails. Granted, the reactions weren't as severe as she used to have, but they were definitely there. I just started a carrot trial yesterday. DD loved them. Usually when she tries a new food, she just puts it up to her mouth, gives me a weird look, and puts it down. That always makes me nervous that it's not a safe food for her... but eventually she eats it, and it's fine. But with the carrots- she touched one to her mouth, and then just started shoveling them in. Her mouth was so full at one point that she had to take some out because she was about to choke. I was shoveling them in too- they were delicious. I haven't had carrots in at least a year, and DD has never had them. Anyway, fast forward to last night.... DD didn't sleep like AT ALL. She literally spent the entire night climbing back and forth over me, going from one boob to the other. The brief periods that she wasn't nursing, she was sleeping on top of me- usually across me chest or my neck (super comfy for me). I don't think that I got more than a 15-minute stretch last night. Needless to say, I'm a big crabby-ass today. : I guess it's not a definite fail yet, but it's looking that way for sure. Although I'm a little confused as to why she would react from the first exposure (we had them one time yesterday, just at lunch) since it's been over a year since I've eaten them, so her carrot antibodies shouldn't still be hanging around, right?

Ok, back to my concern.... The sweet potatoes and carrots were both positive on DD's ELISA, but that was 8 months ago! I figured by now, some of those things might be ok. I mean, what else can I be doing here? We're doing CST weekly, homeopathy, bone broth daily, water kefir for me, vitamin C, epsom salt baths..... I don't know where else to go with this, what else to do. I'm getting very frustrated. And concerned. We've been eating the exact same thing every day for months. If we don't get some new foods in our diet, I'm afraid that we're going to start sensitizing to what we do have and then losing foods. Plus, we just need a larger variety of foods for better nutrition.

I think I read somewhere (or maybe I dreamed it ).... I wish I could remember where, I've read so many books lately. But I think it was a pretty mainstream allergist, so I ignored it. But something about trialing a food for 10 days, even if you see an initial reaction, because it might take some time for the body to get used to the new food. Has anyone heard of this or tried it? I obviously don't want to keep feeding DD a food that is damaging her, but if there's a chance that her body will learn how to process it (maybe it takes time for those particular enzymes to get back up and working?) then I would take the chance to get some more foods in our diets. What do you wise mamas think?

I'm going to stop rambling now and go for a walk.....

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:42 PM
 
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mama, I hope you got to get out for your walk.

I don't have any creative answers, but if she is not having significant reactions, like eczema, hives, etc, I think I might consider trying that. Give her some each day for at least a week, and then evaluate.

Another thing I have read though is that when trying to add a new food back in, have just a tiny amount at first. And gradually increase it. So like one small cooked carrot coin and hide the rest. Just give her one, like a tsp worth. Then try that for a couple of days, and gradually increase it. That would make sense in terms of building up the right stuff. I know that would take a lot longer to add in new foods, but hey if you aren't able to add anything in anyway, then it might be worth a try.
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:08 PM
 
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I think momofmine's idea is good.... gradually increasing the food.

My kids haven't had some things for a year and a half and they still react to the foods, and we're doing all the healing foods too. And now DS developed a new sensitivity, so I'm right there with you. Feeling bad for you and wondering what to do. I'm going to try CST with him next, but you're already doing that... I'm getting him retested with ALCAT to see if I can get any foods back without going through the painful trialing process, but I don't know if it's going to give me answers or waste my money.

I wish I had answers for you (and me). But sending you just the same.

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Old 02-03-2009, 05:27 PM
 
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I don't know the answers, but I have been having similar issues. I started trialing carrots on Saturday and last night DD slept horribly and tossed and turned and cried out all night. However, I am not going to stop the carrots until I am absolutely sure it is a fail. Every time I try something I take it out at the first sign of a reaction and now I think I acted too quickly before really seeing if she was reacting. DD's pediatrician told me to give her 1 teaspoon a day and then move up from there. I do think there may be something to the idea of building up the exposure. I have been giving DD a bit more (about 1 oz) but her only symptom so far is horrible sleep. I go back and forth between thinking if bad sleep is the only symptom I can deal with that, to needing to remove all allergens to let her heal. Bottom line is we need more foods in our diet for same reason as you - to avoid sensitizing and to get more nutrients - and I think that trumps some minor reactions. At least that's what I'm thinking at the moment.

Sending you and hope the carrots turn out ok!
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:02 PM
 
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I would keep trying. If it's not an obvious, dangerous "no", I agree her little body may just need time to adjust. I know that when I went full fledged whole foods and started eating LOTS more veggies, it took me a good month to adjust. I felt it was my body getting used to making the right enzymes and my gut flora altering to a healthier balance.

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Old 02-03-2009, 06:24 PM
 
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BTW, what is UP with carrots?? My dc also did not handle the carrots well, even cooked really well in bone broth, which is supposed to make them more digestible. Aren't carrots supposed to be super low-allergen? Kathy, did carrots make the list when you did the poll?
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's really weird that everyone is reacting to carrots.

I see what you guys are saying with starting slow and building up... it's something to think about. I use to trial like that, but then I figured- it's either good or bad, so I might as well get a clear, easy to read answer sooner than later. But maybe that wasn't a great idea. Who knows.... blah.

At least I had a nice walk. It's a gorgeous day here today!! Of course I got all the way to Fred Meyer (about a mile from my house) to buy veggies and they were out of EVERYTHING. So I ended up with a lot of broccoli.

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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BTW, what is UP with carrots?? My dc also did not handle the carrots well, even cooked really well in bone broth, which is supposed to make them more digestible. Aren't carrots supposed to be super low-allergen? Kathy, did carrots make the list when you did the poll?

5 out of 33 reacted to carrots...

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:04 PM
 
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So, it sounds like your DD is nursing and drinking bone broths, and that's the extent of her diet, other than the carrots she tried yesterday?

Then yesterday, she ate carrots, and her "eww yucky this food is bad for me" radar DIDN'T have her spitting out the food, so she gobbled it up, eating way more solid foods than her body is used to. Could her tummyache be a simple case of overeating?

Also, her inability to sleep last night might have been from some other cause, such as teething or a mild illness.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, it sounds like your DD is nursing and drinking bone broths, and that's the extent of her diet, other than the carrots she tried yesterday?

Then yesterday, she ate carrots, and her "eww yucky this food is bad for me" radar DIDN'T have her spitting out the food, so she gobbled it up, eating way more solid foods than her body is used to. Could her tummyache be a simple case of overeating?

Also, her inability to sleep last night might have been from some other cause, such as teething or a mild illness.
No, sorry. I knew I should have put in some background for those who don't know our story.

Me and DD both currently eat: buckwheat pancakes (buckwheat flour freshly ground, sea salt, palm shortening, blueberries), lamb, lamb bone broth, zucchini, and broccoli. Every day. She still gets at least 50% of her calories from BM (I'm guessing here, but she still nurses about a million times a day.)

She does eat a lot of zucchini and broccoli every day, so her system should be used to the veggies... and I did carrots in place of zucchini for lunch, so she really didn't have any more than she normally eats.

I am going to do carrots again today and see how she sleeps tonight. I really hope it wasn't the carrots.

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:20 PM
 
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carrots are high in nitrates....that could be part of it for little ones. They can also be having issues with niacin....but unless you are seeing the flush that's less likely.

I'm sorry you are having a tough day! The thing is that homeopathy excels here, but it does take time. You are already seeing her reactions are less severe....you are getting there. I understand your concern, however and am not trying to gloss over that.

Did you ever think about a rotation diet while you guys are healing?
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:27 PM
 
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CS has only the foods she mentioned in her previous post, PB. So, a grand total of 7 foods which are safe. Unless you meant adding in foods to which they do react in order to have enough for a rotation?

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, not anywhere near enough foods for a rotation. That's ultimately my goal, but I need to get some trials to pass first!! Since the reactions are less severe, I'm thinking that I might just put the recent fails back into a rotation, maybe just once a week for sweet potato and banana. And hopefully carrot too.

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just thought about the nitrates. Beets are high too, aren't they? And she seems to tolerate beets ok.

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Old 02-03-2009, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ugh. DD has hiccups for the 2nd time today. It's really not looking good for the carrots.

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Old 02-03-2009, 09:14 PM
 
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There are people in the rotation diet world that don't think intolerances need to be removed. I'm not saying I agree. I was just wondering if you'd thought about it at all.

Hopefully things will start shifting more rapidly for you two!
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I know. I just can't imagine intentionally feeding her something that I know will make her uncomfortable. Now with the newest fails, where the reactions were much milder, I could maybe see doing it. Just so that we can have a little more variety.

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Old 02-04-2009, 12:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Panserbjørne View Post
carrots are high in nitrates....that could be part of it for little ones. They can also be having issues with niacin....but unless you are seeing the flush that's less likely.
Can you elaborate on this? (i.e. what is a niacin flush/what does it look like/what does it mean?) thanks!!

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:28 AM
 
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5 out of 33 reacted to carrots...
I didn't take the survey as I'm relatively new to this forum. But add me to the carrot-sensitive list. Make that 6 out of 34.

And I haven't had carrots for two years. Well, okay I tried a tiny bit of them a few months ago and I still reacted. But I enjoy breathing more than I like the carrots.

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Old 02-04-2009, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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But I enjoy breathing more than I like the carrots.
Are you IgE to carrots?!?

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Old 02-04-2009, 01:04 AM
 
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These aren't good odds for the carrots. Why I wonder??
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I just thought of something... I bought some lamb from Azure Standard to try it out, and didn't even think to call and see how it was raised (grassfed, etc.) Last night was the first night we ate some (and then again tonight.) It's much fattier than the local grassfed lamb from our co-op, so I'm a little suspicious. Do lambs normally get fed grains? I wonder if that's what it was.... DD also had a tiny bite of the bone marrow (yuck). DP likes to eat it (double yuck... he's Alaskan Native, and he has fond memories of eating it as a kid, so I don't hold it against him. ) Another thing to consider. So I will definitely continue the carrots for a few more days and see how that plays out.

I hate having to play detective every time I shop at a new store for the exact same things that we've been eating for months. And all of it is fresh food- nothing packaged or anything! Why can't all the stores just sell the same stuff?!? Ok, rant over.

PB- We had beets today too, and DD's first pee after lunch was totally pink. I remember you saying that means low HCl, which mean low zinc(?). I knew that I had the beet-pink-pee issue, but I'm a little surprised that DD does too. Do I need to find us a safe zinc supplement asap? Does zinc transfer through BM, or if I would need to supp DD too?

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Old 02-04-2009, 01:17 AM
 
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My ND mentioned that she's seen a lot of kids sensitive to carrots lately.

I'm sorry you are having so many struggles.....

When we trial a food, we do the building thing. Ds is younger so he only gets a fingertip on the first day, tsp 2nd day etc.
if I notice a reaction I usually trial the food for one or two more days (depending on how serious the reaction was) to be sure.
Things get a pass, maybe or definite no for us when trialing through my breastmilk. The maybe foods are eaten every once in while, and I think I've noticed less of a reaction with some of the things (like liver he hasn't spit up the last couple of times I ate it) So does that mean the answer is more exposure = more tolerance......that seems to be the million dollar question.

I really hope things get better quickly for you both...sending "no more reaction" vibes your way ~~~~
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:19 AM
 
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I just thought of something... I bought some lamb from Azure Standard to try it out, and didn't even think to call and see how it was raised (grassfed, etc.) Last night was the first night we ate some (and then again tonight.) It's much fattier than the local grassfed lamb from our co-op, so I'm a little suspicious. Do lambs normally get fed grains? I wonder if that's what it was.... DD also had a tiny bite of the bone marrow (yuck). DP likes to eat it (double yuck... he's Alaskan Native, and he has fond memories of eating it as a kid, so I don't hold it against him. ) Another thing to consider. So I will definitely continue the carrots for a few more days and see how that plays out.
You don't like marrow?! Are you serious?
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:42 AM
 
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cs, we're right there with you, mama. seriously, dd eats 2 solids plus goat milk kefir and i eat a few more than that. we have been losing safe foods pretty regularly and have not had one single food added back besides that kefir. we've been losing old standbys and i really dont know what we're gonna do. she reacts to every single thing we try including all of our homeopathic remedies. we just recently lost several foods within 2 weeks of each other that has left me floored.
my ped suggested low dose naltrexone and i was gonna post a thread about it tomorrow so i can read up on it a little. there's a forum for it that looks interesting. http://ldn.proboards3.com/index.cgi
i understand what waluso said about how she pulls foods at the first hint of reaction - i def do that too. i have no idea if i should be continuing to try little bits or what. it just seems like, although her reactions can be less in some ways, they linger longer. plus with random teething thrown in, its like impossible to tell whats going on.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:43 AM
 
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i think the additional fattiness of the lamb could be part of it. We are actually doing well on what we are eating right now, which includes lamb. I bought a whole lamb locally, and the few times that I have used the ground lamb, which is a lot fattier than the other cuts, both boys have had looser stools. It could be the extra fat, if she wasn't used to it.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:58 AM
 
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What form were the carrots in? Canned, frozen, fresh? If fresh, were they "baby" carrots in a bag? (those are usually treated with bleach or some of kind of corny stuff)

Or were they whole long carrots with the tops still on? Less chance of corny stuff on those, especially if they were still dirty.
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Old 02-04-2009, 02:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You don't like marrow?! Are you serious?
And to think, I call you my friend!
I've actually never tried it. I just can't bring myself to put that stuff in my mouth. It looks like cottage cheese.

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cs, we're right there with you, mama. seriously, dd eats 2 solids plus goat milk kefir and i eat a few more than that. we have been losing safe foods pretty regularly and have not had one single food added back besides that kefir. we've been losing old standbys and i really dont know what we're gonna do.
Oh that sucks. I'm still floored that she tolerates the goat's milk kefir though. That's amazing. Have you guys done homeopathy yet? I really do think it's helping DD, just really slowly.... It's hard to be patient for the results.

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What form were the carrots in? Canned, frozen, fresh? If fresh, were they "baby" carrots in a bag? (those are usually treated with bleach or some of kind of corny stuff)

Or were they whole long carrots with the tops still on? Less chance of corny stuff on those, especially if they were still dirty.
I didn't even think about corn. They were whole, regular size, Safeway brand organic bagged carrots. No tops. Maybe I will pick some up at the co-op tomorrow since I have to go anyway.

Oops- I thought I quoted momofmine's post too, but apparently I missed it. Anyway, we eat a lot of ground lamb too, so it's definitely not the fat. The reason that I mentioned that the AS lamb is fattier is because it makes me suspicious that it's grain-fed, because there were veins of fat running through the rib chop, where my co-op lamb rib chops are just surrounded by fat, but very lean in the middle. I know that when cows are grain-fed, the meat gets that fat "marbling" effect, so thats what made me wonder.

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Old 02-04-2009, 02:10 AM
 
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I second the "carrots have nitrates" theory.

It could also be getting used to a new food in a large initial quantity. My daughter has never eaten enough of anything to go overboard, so I can't really say from experience though...

We have pushed through some foods that initially looked like fails and now eat them with impunity. Often what happens though is I see the first fail signs and pull the food. Then in retrospect I question what I saw because of circumstance or whatnot... and shortly retrial and find out that the food works for us.

When we trial, we trial on rotation... so we get the food once on day 1 and maybe twice on day 5 and then not again until day 9. After a few weeks of this, we integrate it more randomly and at higher doses.

HTH. Lisa

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Old 02-04-2009, 02:17 AM
 
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I didn't even think about corn. They were whole, regular size, Safeway brand organic bagged carrots. No tops. Maybe I will pick some up at the co-op tomorrow since I have to go anyway.

I only mention it because I'm corn allergic and many fruits/veggies are a crapshoot for me. I know for sure the bagged baby carrots have corn on them. With the whole regular size long ones, usually I've been fine with them, but last time DH got a different brand and I had a reaction. So I think some of them must be rinsed or treated with corny stuff.
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