MTHFR, salicylates and adrenals - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 178 Old 02-14-2009, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ellasmama2007 View Post
well thats the thing.. like you, she has normal homocysteine levels. she has had 2 miscarriages, 1 still birth, breast ca, family hx of strokes, and i believe she has a neural tube defect.
the lovenox is an anti-clotting drug which can cause bleeding if not prescribed perfectly. she already had spontaneously bleeding during her pg with her angel baby.
s:
Which MTHFR mutations was it? Cause homozygous for 1298 wouldn't affect folate/homocysteine.

CBS can be upregulated, meaning it drains homocysteine really fast. If that's the case, then the worry would be high ammonia, and sulfites and low/normal methyl groups. The way to address that would be low animal protein to restrict methionine and more betaine/phospha* and folate/B12 to pull homocysteine in the opposite direction.

If you can follow it, this page would probably help: http://heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm

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#62 of 178 Old 02-14-2009, 11:58 PM
 
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i need to ask her which mutation if she knows and i am going to *try* to relay to her everything im learning from you. that link makes my head spin but im going to really really try to understand it tomorrow
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#63 of 178 Old 02-15-2009, 12:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Cliff's notes version:
http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/c...istForCategory

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#64 of 178 Old 02-15-2009, 12:31 AM
 
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So I think someone else asked this but I am still confused. How do you know which detox pathways may be blocked? Is there is list of symptoms somewhere? Or is it trial and error with supplements/foods? I apologize if this was already answered - I'm a bit behind on my reading!
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#65 of 178 Old 02-15-2009, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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You can start with that cliff's notes version, but I'm working on a better explanation. So if it's too overwhelming, just give me time

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#66 of 178 Old 02-16-2009, 01:42 PM
 
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I have another question!
So far we're doing really well with the Failsafe elimination. Amines are ok, and we started the glutamate trial last night. So far, so good. Dairy is in, eggs are too.
I made some bone broth and we're using it in everything (where I would normally use water or stock). Today I'm going to start the saurkraut, because we got a head of cabbage from our CSA pickup this weekend.
I'm not interested in trialing wheat or sals until much later, but where we are at the moment seems ok. We've expanded the list of foods that are acceptable to the point that it doesn't feel like it's very restricted anymore.

Here's the question- we have a great pedi (he's a DAN doc), and I'd bounce some ideas off of him, but his wife just had a baby last week. They're, uh, busy. Our annual visit is coming up with him, though, and I'm positive that he'd be open to doing some labs if I asked. My son has to have thyroid labs done annually, so he's already getting stuck.
What would be the best way to go here? I looked at the Yasko site, but if we can get the testing covered by our insurance because it's ordered by the pedi...

Anyway. What would I be asking for?
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#67 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 04:06 AM
 
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Bumping this back up...
So, from what it looks like, using betaine to recycle homocysteine bypasses the MTHFR gene's requirement for B vitamins- am I correct in that?
Betaine can be produced from choline (grouped with the B vitamins)... It's also a by-product of (take note changing seasons!) beet sugar production.

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#68 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Bumping this back up...
So, from what it looks like, using betaine to recycle homocysteine bypasses the MTHFR gene's requirement for B vitamins- am I correct in that?
Yeah. And this pathway is stimulated by phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine.

But be careful - I forget where, but one link was saying that using the betaine pathway stimulates norepinephrine conversion from dopamine. Norepinephrine is the 'fight or flight' stress response, so if stress is an issue, this might make things a little worse. The recommendation I've seen is to use betaine to get things rolling again (stress is better than toxins), then push back to the folate cycle for long term.

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#69 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 02:43 PM
 
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Yeah. And this pathway is stimulated by phosphatidylserine and phosphatidylcholine.

But be careful - I forget where, but one link was saying that using the betaine pathway stimulates norepinephrine conversion from dopamine. Norepinephrine is the 'fight or flight' stress response, so if stress is an issue, this might make things a little worse. The recommendation I've seen is to use betaine to get things rolling again (stress is better than toxins), then push back to the folate cycle for long term.
I believe norepinephrine is produced by the adrenals, so yes that would certainly make things worse... Makes me wonder if that's not how some of us ended up with adrenal fatigue- not enough folate for us to use in recycling methionine, so our bodies used betaine.

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#70 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I believe norepinephrine is produced by the adrenals, so yes that would certainly make things worse... Makes me wonder if that's not how some of us ended up with adrenal fatigue- not enough folate for us to use in recycling methionine, so our bodies used betaine.
Yeah. and there's an enzyme, ACE, which converts angiotensin I to angiotensin II. Angiotensin II stimulates the adrenals to make aldosterone. This enzyme can be upregulated, so it stimulates extra. (salt tasted gross gross GROSS when I was little)

AND there's another link at the bottom of the transsulfuration sequence that I haven't looked at closely. Somehow, one of the processes there stimulates the adrenals as well.

No WONDER I have adrenal fatigue!

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#71 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 03:39 PM
 
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Yeah, you want to leave the Angiotensins alone in someone with adrenal fatigue though since it increases blood pressure. If it got any lower in someone with AF, there'd be some serious problems, I think. It does explain exercise and stress induced asthma though, since ACE is in the lungs...

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#72 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 06:25 PM
 
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Yeah. and there's an enzyme, ACE, which converts angiotensin I to angiotensin II. Angiotensin II stimulates the adrenals to make aldosterone.

I hated this stuff in school.


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#73 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 06:35 PM
 
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Interestingly, I happened upon this, "elimination of specific foods: cabbage, peaches, radishes, soy, peanuts, spinach and rutabagas which can interfere with thyroid hormone production." And I wonder about the connection between those (which are beneficial for opening Phase I and Phase II detox pathways) and adrenals are related.

And I'm still lost about (well, a lot of stuff) how salicylates fits in with the adrenal stuff.


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#74 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 08:55 PM
 
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whoMe, I'm surprised your head doesn't spin right off. I'm not sure where to ask you stuff... so many threads with so many links!!
I started reading through the heartfixer link you posted somewhere... I'm about halfway through and I have to ask- why not just supp with the hydroxy-B12 and, if that doesn't seem to help, assume that you need the methyl-B12? Will the hydroxy form do very bad things if you need the methyl form? I suppose it would take methyl groups, right? And then you'd feel worse... but then you'd know you actually need the methyl form, right?

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#75 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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whoMe, I'm surprised your head doesn't spin right off. I'm not sure where to ask you stuff... so many threads with so many links!!
I started reading through the heartfixer link you posted somewhere... I'm about halfway through and I have to ask- why not just supp with the hydroxy-B12 and, if that doesn't seem to help, assume that you need the methyl-B12? Will the hydroxy form do very bad things if you need the methyl form? I suppose it would take methyl groups, right? And then you'd feel worse... but then you'd know you actually need the methyl form, right?
I haven't come across anything that says it would be bad to just guess and check on the form of B12...

And me trying to memorize the parts of the inner ear and how we tell static vs dynamic equilibrium... I'm definitely losing screws. The food sensitivity stuff? I've been frantically searching for these answers for the past year and a half+. I'm a sponge! Yeah, this experience is completely selling me on radical unschooling... If only dh could experience the inside of my head for a day...

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#76 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 09:15 PM
 
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Sorry, I should let you study.
I'm just not used to actually being able to think lucidly yet again (thank you, PB, for pointing me to homeopathy!!) and I'm so excited to finally have someone to talk to about this stuff, yk?

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Sorry, I should let you study.
I'm just not used to actually being able to think lucidly yet again (thank you, PB, for pointing me to homeopathy!!) and I'm so excited to finally have someone to talk to about this stuff, yk?
I've always hated studying, and I'm horribly no good at it. Luckily, I have some sort of magic genie that gives me good grades on tests so it doesn't matter too much

I'm so excited that you guys are catching up! I have questions too!

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#78 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 09:50 PM
 
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And then you'd feel worse... but then you'd know you actually need the methyl form, right?
Now that is a plan.


ETA: do not try this at home without a medical professional advising you.


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#79 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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The food sensitivity stuff? I've been frantically searching for these answers for the past year and a half+. I'm a sponge! Yeah, this experience is completely selling me on radical unschooling...

:






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#80 of 178 Old 02-20-2009, 10:04 PM
 
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Now that is a plan.


ETA: do not try this at home without a medical professional advising you.


Pat

I was just thinking "outloud" more than anything.
It seems the only "safe" way to find out what form you need is to get the actual testing for the MTHFR genes done, along with the CBS and possibly the COMT and VDR genes, assuming they're all identified variables.

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I haven't come across anything that says it would be bad to just guess and check on the form of B12...
Something on the heartfixer site said that using the methyl form, if you have an excess of methyl groups (which I'm pretty sure none of us does, but...) would cause serious mood swings, which is why I wondered about the hydroxy form.

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#82 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 02:57 AM
 
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Subbing to remember to come back, I feel like I have so much to read and watch.
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#83 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 04:20 PM
 
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Ok. where should I put my question? Start a thread here? Heal thyself? In this thread? I'm a wreck and could use some advice.

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#84 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 04:50 PM
 
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Ok. where should I put my question? Start a thread here? Heal thyself? In this thread? I'm a wreck and could use some advice.
What is going on mama?


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#85 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 06:17 PM
 
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Well....

So here are my known problems:

Adrenal fatigue (dx via saliva test)
Possible hypothyroid (dx via iodine patch test)
Extremely low vit d (blood test)
Gluten/Dairy sensitivity (dx via stool test)

I have been GF/DF for over a year. I also spent many months on a TED. More months on an ED. A few months ago I fell off the wagon although I am still GF/DF. I have been taking various supplements. Most recently I take zinc, adrenal support supplement, immune supplement, iodoral, biotin & quercitin.

About a month ago I decided to remove sweet potatoes/squash from my diet to see if it would help DS. I also started eating fermented veggies regularly. He initially improved. We had a glorious week of almost normal sleep for his age and his poops were really beautiful. then they started to go down hill again.

At around the same time I started to feel pretty good. So I added some exercise into my routine. Nothing major. Just getting out with the kids more (mostly sledding). Trying to get on the elipitcal trainer. Then xc skiing. again, nothing major and never every day. I also switch my adrenal supplement per an intuitive nutritionist I saw.

Anyhoo, probably about a week and a half ago I started feeling crummy again. I've had this on again off again pain on the lower right side of my back. It's definitely been pretty on again. Also, my joints are feeling achy. And, my energy has taken a total hit. I am so tired I can barely drag myself around. Of course this coincides with DS sleeping like absolute crap again. So double whammy.

Anyhow, I'm starting to wonder about the detox thing. I'm sure some of my pathways are screwed up. I'm also wondering if the small bit of exercise I did was too much for my adrenals and I've set myself back. Or perhaps my new Adrenal supplement isn't working. In reality, I'm just too tired to wonder much at all.

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#86 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 06:38 PM
 
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What about Epsom salt baths, probiotics, EFA, B-vitamins, vitamin C, selenium, bone broths? These are helpful for detox and gut healing.

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#87 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyhow, I'm starting to wonder about the detox thing. I'm sure some of my pathways are screwed up. I'm also wondering if the small bit of exercise I did was too much for my adrenals and I've set myself back. Or perhaps my new Adrenal supplement isn't working. In reality, I'm just too tired to wonder much at all.
How are you with focus/concentration, depression and midline defects?

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#88 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 08:00 PM
 
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Can you all tell that WhoMe and I have one track minds?


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#89 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 08:34 PM
 
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I'm not sure about my midline defects. I did have a tight labial frenulum which I had cut when I was a teenager. I'm sure I have others.

My daughter had labial adhesions which just finally opened at 5 yrs old. She also has/had lots of digestive troubles. She has unidentified food sensitivities. She has a partial tongue tie but not enough to warrant cutting, according to Dr. Coryllos.

My son had a posterior tongue tie & a labial frenulum, both of which were cut at 8 months. He also has/had lots of digestive troubles. He likely has unidentified food sensitivities as well. Other issues remain to be seen.

Like so many of the women here I used to be very sharp. Very able to multitask. Now, not so much. I am sometimes forgetful. I have a terrible time remembering names.

I have had problems with depression all my life. I've also been very fatigued since my kids have been born but the last two weeks have been much worse than before. I also find that at the moment I have trouble coping with stress. I yell at the kids easily. This past week I cried and had those "whoa is me" feelings. I keep saying to myself "I quit". Practically speaking I have no idea what that really means since quitting isn't really an option, now is it?

It's so weird since 2 weeks ago I felt so much better.

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#90 of 178 Old 02-21-2009, 08:53 PM
 
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Elm!!! The Bach Flower Remedy. I love me some Elm!!:

Mama, I have come to believe that MY stress impacts ds more than any other variable in his life.

Bach Flower remedies are our friend.

Adding Natural Calm helped significantly. http://www.calmnatural.com/product/18340500004

As well as some Bach Flower remedies. They are all natural, safe remedies for stress, upset, fear, depression, anxiety, worries, etc. You can select those that best suit based upon reading about each one or taking the quiz at the remedy finder (first link). You can choose up to 5 or so and mix a few drops of each in water and sip as needed, or take straight in the midst of a stressful situation.

Guaranteed to help. :

http://www.ainsworths.com/remedy/default.aspx

http://www.bachcentre.com/centre/remedies.htm

http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

I love Rescue Remedy. Elm for "feeling temporarily overwhelmed with responsibilities" and White Chestnut for "when thoughts go round and round in your head". (some of my favorites. )

http://www.herbalremedies.com/elm10mlvial.html

"Elm (Ulmus Procera) is the Bach Flower Remedy for people suffering a temporary loss of self-confidence due to the overwhelming amount of responsibility they have taken on. Genuine Elm types are people who are successful and carrying out work that they believe in, but at times feel the weight of the charge on them and become depressed and concerned that they will not be able to go on."


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