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Old 03-05-2009, 04:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
He mentioned that some kids who react badly to the CLO need to take carnitine along with it (500-1,000 mg), something about how the carnitine helps the body to metabolize the fat, get it into the cells.
Carnitine plays a critical role in energy production. It transports long-chain fatty acids into the mitochondria so they can be oxidized ("burned") to produce energy. It also transports the toxic compounds generated out of this cellular organelle to prevent their accumulation.

Healthy children and adults do not need to consume carnitine from food or supplements, as the liver and kidneys produce sufficient amounts from the amino acids lysine and methionine to meet daily needs.

What foods provide carnitine?

Animal products like meat, fish, poultry, and milk are the best sources. In general, the redder the meat, the higher its carnitine content. Dairy products contain carnitine primarily in the whey fraction.

Carnitine occurs in two forms, known as D and L, that are mirror images (isomers) of each other. Only L-carnitine is active in the body and is the form found in food.

The kidneys efficiently conserve carnitine, so even carnitine-poor diets have little impact on the body's total carnitine content.
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/carnitine.asp

Vegans and those with little meat or dairy consumption could have an issue, it seems.


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Old 03-05-2009, 04:41 PM
 
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More from this webinar I just listened to at Great Plains, he was actually talking about anxiety, and that GABA is one supp that might be recommended for it, but he said it works in concert with theanine (an amino acid found in green tea). So when I read your post above, I found this link about theanine:

http://delano.com/Articles/Theanine-Sharpe.html

Theanine resembles glutamate, glutamine, or glutamic acid. Read this link.

From the link above, "anyone being treated for cancer, autoimmune disease or any other serious illness should supplement with theanine only under the supervision of a health care professional. Likewise, as previously mentioned, theanine should be used with caution by anyone undergoing treatment for depression with a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, since according to some reports theanine can decrease brain levels of this neurotransmitter."

"It was also shown to affect levels of dopamine and serotonin in animals. "
Theanine-induced reduction of brain serotonin concentration in rats.
"Following the administration of theanine, the brain tryptophan content significantly increased or tended to increase, but the contents of serotonin and 5-hydroxyindole acetic acid (5HIAA) decreased."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9...?dopt=Citation

Effects of theanine, r-glutamylethylamide, on neurotransmitter release and its relationship with glutamic acid neurotransmission. "These results suggested that the mechanism of dopamine release caused by theanine is different from glutamate transporter blockers or glutamic acid."

This is rather profound:

Abstract

Theanine (r-glutamylethylamide) is one of the major amino acid components in green tea. Recent studies suggest that theanine affects neurotransmission, especially inhibitory neurotransmission. In this study, we investigated whether theanine affects brain development in infant rats, because inhibitory neurotransmission is required for mature brain function. Mother rats were fed theanine ad libitum after confinement. The body weight gain rate of infants was not different from control infants. We detected theanine in the infant serum and measured neurotransmitter concentration and nerve growth factor (NGF) mRNA level in the infant rat brain.



Some neurotransmitters, including dopamine, serotonin, glycine and GABA concentration, increased in the infant brain and NGF mRNA level increased in the cerebral cortex and hippocampus. However, these differences were lost by the end of nerve maturity. These results suggest that theanine enhanced synthesis of nerve growth factor and neurotransmitters during a nerve maturing period and promoted central nerve system maturation (CNS). Thus, theanine accelerated maturation. In conclusion, theanine may assist in healthy brain function development."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...84fb47aaadfe2b


In a study comparing Theanine and Xanax, Theanine, a naturally occurring substance found in Green Tea, is extremely more effective at reducing stress and anxiety than the prescription medication Xanax. http://recommended-vitamins.com/amin...d-anxiety.html (this was in the presence of caffeine, I believe)




Food sources: Camellia sinensis, the source of green tea


Pat, added green tea to my list of To Do.

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Old 03-05-2009, 04:54 PM
 
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if I add GABA to that regimine if I'll have positive results?
GABA is an inhibitory (vs. excitatory) chemical responsible for creating the calming, rhythmic electrical impulses in the brain. It elevates the production of alpha waves associated with feeling relaxed (without drowsiness) and boosts mental alertness. GABA lowers beta waves, impulses that contribute to a state of nervousness, racing thoughts and hyperactivity.



3 Ways to Naturally Increase GABA

To avoid taking prescription anti-anxiety medications or to *reduce dosing in prescriptions such as Xanax, Ativan or Valium, consider the following natural alternatives:
1.Load Up on Green Tea. Green tea contains the anxiety-reducing amino acid L-theanine which is involved in the formation of GABA. You will however, have to drink large amounts to obtain any affect. Most green tea sold in the United States contains less than 10mg of L-theanine while the suggested dose to decrease symptoms is 50-200 mg.
2. Supplement with the amino acid L-Theanine rather than GABA supplements. L-theanine is more effective than GABA supplements in crossing the blood-brain barrier. Take only the Suntheanine® form of L-theanine as indicated on the label in brands such as Enzymatic Therapy, Natural Factors, NOW Foods, Bluebonnet, etc.
3. Eat complex carbohydrates to increase glutamic acid/glutamate which forms glutamine, an amino involved in the production of GABA. Cooking destroys amino acids so eat as many raw foods as possible.
GABA Stimulating Foods

  • Almonds
  • Tree nuts
  • Bananas
  • Beef Liver
  • Broccoli
  • Brown Rice
  • Halibut
  • Lentils
  • Oats, whole grain
  • Oranges, citrus fruits
  • Rice bran
  • Spinach
  • Walnuts
  • Whole wheat, whole grains.
the highest concentrations of naturally occurring GABA are found in fish (particularly mackerel) and wheat bran. While it's easy to burn out eating large amounts of fish, wheat bran can be blended into an assortment of soups, salads, cereals and even some meat dishes.
http://holistic-nutrition.suite101.c...tianxiety_diet

A fascinating website: Holistic Nutrition: http://holistic-nutrition.suite101.com/

We probably don't get enough fish and definitely not "wheat bran". Interesting. Very interesting.

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Old 03-05-2009, 04:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MyLittleWonders http://www.mothering.com/discussions...s/viewpost.gif
(I need to take written notes while I read here I think.)



I keep a written list of the important nutrient dense foods, as I identify them. And then I just start including them in our diet.

pat, can't get the italic to turn off, lol

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Old 03-05-2009, 05:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
hey guys,
I just finished listening to a webinar on the Great Plains Laboratories website (it was a live thing tonight that you had to sign up for) and although it was about biomedical treatments for autism, he was talking about a lot of this stuff.

He mentioned that some kids who react badly to the CLO need to take carnitine along with it (500-1,000 mg), something about how the carnitine helps the body to metabolize the fat, get it into the cells. OR he said the reason could be that the individual could be reacting to the flavoring. But if it was because the person could not use or metabolize the oil, the carnitine would help.

You could try carnitine.

He said all this info is on a new website he has just started (this was a physician who works with kids on biomedical treatments for autism) called autismactionplan.org. Haven't checked it out yet, but it sounds like there is a lot of information about this kind of stuff there, protocols for what works for what, etc.
I had been taking carnitine along with it. Carnitine helps the body utilize all fats, I still had bad RX and since then have tested to be slightly hyperthyroid. I dare not take any fish oils now, as soon as I got pregnant fish oils sent me into a mild thyroid 'rush'.

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Old 03-05-2009, 05:22 PM
 
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Pat, thank you for all that information. I scratch my head and wonder why in the world I have such issues ... I eat so much of what is listed as all the good, nutrient dense food. (I do eat some not-so-nutrient dense stuff too. ) I much not be digesting what I'm eating. That is all I can come up with ... otherwise you'd think I'd feel better most of the time.

Green tea is caffeinated, right? I am taking some Suntheanine® form of L-theanine; I wonder if I'm not taking enough? I'm only taking 75 mg. Maybe if I upped that to 150mg, it might be better?

I did go ahead and take a GABA today; my nerves were asking for it.

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Old 03-05-2009, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
I keep a written list of the important nutrient dense foods, as I identify them. And then I just start including them in our diet.
Can you send me that list? I'm wanting to make another web of nutrients linked to foods...

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Old 03-05-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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Pat, thank you for all that information. I scratch my head and wonder why in the world I have such issues ... I eat so much of what is listed as all the good, nutrient dense food. (I do eat some not-so-nutrient dense stuff too. ) I much not be digesting what I'm eating. That is all I can come up with ... otherwise you'd think I'd feel better most of the time.
I forgot if you mentioned it, but when you did your metals test, were you looking for mercury in your hair, or doing the Cutler approach of looking for regular minerals to be weird? And since you mentioned a hair test, I guess none of the other metals/minerals looked bizarre? You aren't walking around with half a pound of copper and lead like chlobo? Sorry chlobo, but I had to say it--my daughter started asking, a while back, about the metal in Mommy's head, and I'm thinking huh? Shrapnel, metal plates? Oh, the kid interpretation of my passing comments about mercury in my brain. Whoops, a bit of explanation is required.

It does seem like you and the kids have a lot going on for people who take such good care of themselves. I don't know how one looks for things like chronic viruses or other things that can cause such problems.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Todays update. Fantastic, so far. We woke up early (not great), but I've had lots of energy. Today was our day at the farm. Last week, dd was very protective of me, clingy, needy, not wanting the kids near me (I do field trip tours). That's not her personality, but it's not uncommon behavior for her, either. Today, she was happy as a clam, played with the kids, and even let the other parents on the tour look after her.

On the way in, I was in a great mood. The weird thing is I kept feeling like I was flushing/about to flush, but I don't think I ever turned red. I'm wondering if that could somehow be a thyroid thing? Like it was perking up after being damped for so long? It wasn't uncomfortable at all, just warm. Weird.

Now I'm sleepy and have a little headache, but I think that's dehydration and not sleeping two nights ago. Which brings me to last night. I was daring, and brought the B5 down to only 3 caps (instead of 4), and slept GREAT : There was even one time after dd nursed where I was sure I was waking myself up too much and my nervousness would keep me awake - but then dd woke me up to nurse hours later

so far, so good!

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Old 03-05-2009, 09:31 PM
 
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Yay! : I'm so impressed with your problem-solving. Wow.
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Old 03-05-2009, 09:33 PM
 
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Can you send me that list? I'm wanting to make another web of nutrients linked to foods...
Pat, can I get that list too?

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Old 03-05-2009, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That's what I've always said I'm good at, and why I chose an engineering degree. I see anything, and my head goes into problem-solving mode

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Old 03-05-2009, 10:36 PM
 
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I eat so much of what is listed as all the good, nutrient dense food. (I do eat some not-so-nutrient dense stuff too. ) I much not be digesting what I'm eating.
Did you do the pink pee test? Are you eating fermented vegetables, and/or whole food probiotics, and/or drinking lemon in your water? (can't recall if you are nursing) What about the alkaline forming foods?

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Old 03-05-2009, 10:38 PM
 
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Can you send me that list? I'm wanting to make another web of nutrients linked to foods...

Check here: http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

And here: http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...nt-dense-foods

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Old 03-06-2009, 12:54 AM
 
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I forgot if you mentioned it, but when you did your metals test, were you looking for mercury in your hair, or doing the Cutler approach of looking for regular minerals to be weird? And since you mentioned a hair test, I guess none of the other metals/minerals looked bizarre? You aren't walking around with half a pound of copper and lead like chlobo? Sorry chlobo, but I had to say it--my daughter started asking, a while back, about the metal in Mommy's head, and I'm thinking huh? Shrapnel, metal plates? Oh, the kid interpretation of my passing comments about mercury in my brain. Whoops, a bit of explanation is required.

It does seem like you and the kids have a lot going on for people who take such good care of themselves. I don't know how one looks for things like chronic viruses or other things that can cause such problems.
We (ds#1, ds#2 and I) did the hair analysis, but only for toxic metals, not all minerals. (I wish we had though.) My levels were all fine. But, from what I understand, that can either be good or just mean that I'm carrying a lot of metals but they aren't being dumped/moved around, huh? The boys were even low in mercury, which really surprised me (we had them both vax'd up until 24 months and 18 months, respectively). They were both in the yellow for zinc (I was up at the line between green and yellow), and high in tungsten (up at the red or in the red) and ds#2 was high in uranium (only in the yellow though). If we had higher levels of zinc in our hair, doesn't that actually mean we are probably deficient in it?

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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Did you do the pink pee test? Are you eating fermented vegetables, and/or whole food probiotics, and/or drinking lemon in your water? (can't recall if you are nursing) What about the alkaline forming foods?

Pat
Yep, did the pink pee test. I've started supplementing with biotin and zinc in hopes of increasing my stomach acid. I've also reintroduced raw milk kefir in the morning, drink lemon water first thing in the morning (I'm nursing, but typically only 2x a day, and he's almost 3). I also try to remember to take digestive enzymes when I eat. (This has all been things new the last week or so ... following failing the pink pee test.) In terms of alkaline forming foods, I need to work on that. I'm trying to get back into a big salad once a day (usually for lunch but sometimes for dinner) and more raw veggies in general, which I know are good for me.

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Old 03-06-2009, 01:20 AM
 
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We (ds#1, ds#2 and I) did the hair analysis, but only for toxic metals, not all minerals. (I wish we had though.) My levels were all fine. But, from what I understand, that can either be good or just mean that I'm carrying a lot of metals but they aren't being dumped/moved around, huh? The boys were even low in mercury, which really surprised me (we had them both vax'd up until 24 months and 18 months, respectively). They were both in the yellow for zinc (I was up at the line between green and yellow), and high in tungsten (up at the red or in the red) and ds#2 was high in uranium (only in the yellow though). If we had higher levels of zinc in our hair, doesn't that actually mean we are probably deficient in it?
If you can swing a test for any of you, I'd do it, two would be better (among all of you, I mean). I did that silly Greenpeace hair test before my daughter was born, my hair mercury was undetectable. My daughter's was low in the green range, quite low. My parents are both undetectable. Yes, mercury is a huge issue for all of us, and my daughter's test showed it in the normal minerals (my parents' tests did too). Only about 10% of the people who are having mercury issues are excreting it at high levels (they got good genes and were likely exposed to levels that would almost kill me), the rest of us didn't excrete it well to begin with and our ability has degraded over time as the mercury has built up and impaired our bodies' ability to function.

Really high or low zinc usually means that you need to supp zinc, but in people like me who are mercury toxic (I know by health history and my response to dealing with it, but if I'd done a hair test, I think my results would've been similar to my daughter's) the actual results of the minerals aren't very meaningful. They need to be looked at very closely because the mercury is changing how our bodies are using the normal minerals and we've got all sorts of issues. All the folks here who've gotten recent results, their hair tests show more real information in terms of the actual minerals (though just knowing you have a mercury issue is valuable in itself, of course).

Nursing moms can have false positives for 1 of Cutler's 5 "counting rules" so testing the kids may be more helpful, but it could still be worthwhile to test you (and I'm such a dunce that I can't remember the age of your kids or if you're still nursing).

eta: read to the bottom of your previous message, and I'd test you too--nursing, yes, but not a huge amount, and it's good to know what's going on with you.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:41 AM
 
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If you can swing a test for any of you, I'd do it, two would be better (among all of you, I mean). I did that silly Greenpeace hair test before my daughter was born, my hair mercury was undetectable. My daughter's was low in the green range, quite low. My parents are both undetectable. Yes, mercury is a huge issue for all of us, and my daughter's test showed it in the normal minerals (my parents' tests did too). Only about 10% of the people who are having mercury issues are excreting it at high levels (they got good genes and were likely exposed to levels that would almost kill me), the rest of us didn't excrete it well to begin with and our ability has degraded over time as the mercury has built up and impaired our bodies' ability to function.

Really high or low zinc usually means that you need to supp zinc, but in people like me who are mercury toxic (I know by health history and my response to dealing with it, but if I'd done a hair test, I think my results would've been similar to my daughter's) the actual results of the minerals aren't very meaningful. They need to be looked at very closely because the mercury is changing how our bodies are using the normal minerals and we've got all sorts of issues. All the folks here who've gotten recent results, their hair tests show more real information in terms of the actual minerals (though just knowing you have a mercury issue is valuable in itself, of course).

Nursing moms can have false positives for 1 of Cutler's 5 "counting rules" so testing the kids may be more helpful, but it could still be worthwhile to test you (and I'm such a dunce that I can't remember the age of your kids or if you're still nursing).

eta: read to the bottom of your previous message, and I'd test you too--nursing, yes, but not a huge amount, and it's good to know what's going on with you.
So which test would you ask for in particular? We did the DDI Hair Toxic Element Exposure Profile. Is there another one through DDI?

And, you are not a dunce.

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Old 03-06-2009, 01:47 AM
 
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So which test would you ask for in particular? We did the DDI Hair Toxic Element Exposure Profile. Is there another one through DDI?

And, you are not a dunce.
The plain Hair Elements test from DDI. Cutler used it to develop his counting rules, and it's got a lot of good information even if the issue is not mercury-related. Calling Direct Lab Services to order and telling them that you were referred by the autism-mercury yahoo group (or join and say you're a member) should discount the price into the $70-ish range (wish I'd known when we tested, but I'll use it later this year).

It's a shame that the test with the normal, plain, short name is actually the more useful one for figuring out if you've got toxicity problems! I wish they could re-name them or add a little note or something.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:50 AM
 
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The plain Hair Elements test from DDI. Cutler used it to develop his counting rules, and it's got a lot of good information even if the issue is not mercury-related. Calling Direct Lab Services to order and telling them that you were referred by the autism-mercury yahoo group (or join and say you're a member) should discount the price into the $70-ish range (wish I'd known when we tested, but I'll use it later this year).

It's a shame that the test with the normal, plain, short name is actually the more useful one for figuring out if you've got toxicity problems! I wish they could re-name them or add a little note or something.
Thank you! I am going to talk with dh and see if we can do that next month (this month's "extra" money for alternative health stuff is earmarked for a trip to the Oriental medicine doctor).

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Old 03-06-2009, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Seriously? SERIOUSLY? What next? and why can't this be simple!?

So. My tongue is big, and has the shape of my teeth imprinted on the edge (scalloped edge). That's associated with hypothyroidism. According to my lab results, I'm slightly hypothyroid. So I'm going with that explanation. And I was thinking I'd watch my tongue to see if this cysteine thing affects it, since it should help out my thyroid.

Today I looked at my tongue in the mirror and it's HAIRY. And white. (and still big) And gross. It was NOT like that two days ago, though I think it has been like that in the past. I think it has to do with keratin. Which sounds like keratosis pilaris, AKA those bumps on the back of my arms and thighs.

Next stop on the scavenger hunt: keratin pathology.

Oh, and I get a C for sleep last night. Dd's been waking/nursing a lot more, so I blame her. Who knows why she's not sleeping as well.

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Old 03-06-2009, 02:41 PM
 
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I thought keratosis pilaris was from vit.A deficiency ?

Also, I noticed since i started the detox 'diet' that ds got worse a few days into it. talked to my ND and she said not to worry, ds' liver should be able to handle it and that it's a good sign for thigns to get worse for a bit since it means things are moving along.
don't know if thats what you are experiencing too but wanted to throw that out there

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Old 03-06-2009, 03:56 PM
 
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Could it be possible that you're breaking down your thyroid hormone more quickly now and need to increase your iodine intake?

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Old 03-06-2009, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thread on KP

This should be increasing thyroid hormone production, so yeah, that would increase iodine need. I've been doing about a drop of lugol's/day (~3 mg). So I could probably use more, but I'm not horribly deficient.

Hmm... thyroid hormones are detoxed via sulfation. Which would be slowing down a bit, since I'm not leaning on transsulfuration so heavily. So that would also increase thyroid hormones.

It needs to be naptime so I can do my keratin research!

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Old 03-06-2009, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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more on cysteine

and check out the KP thread for my thoughts on that

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Old 03-06-2009, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay. Time to reassess vitamins.

I bet I don't need so much B5 and cysteine. I bet I can drop that to just one cap/day, plus the cysteine.

If I do that, can I drop the other B vits? And just get them from food?

I think I want to up my vit C (bowel tolerance?), and keep close tabs on my magnesium. And increase vit A for sure. I should probably retest vit D, I've been taking quite a bit.

I'm a big fan of the biotin, so that one's staying. And I bet I could use more iodine, but I'm scared of the detox effects before I have this all ironed out.

What am I missing?

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Old 03-06-2009, 09:21 PM
 
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Just a reminder that something Pat posted somewhere (this thread?) said that NAC is also used as a chelator... You might want to add some clay (or something else to absorb toxins) in light of that.

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:01 PM
 
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Seriously? SERIOUSLY? What next? and why can't this be simple!?

So. My tongue is big, and has the shape of my teeth imprinted on the edge (scalloped edge). That's associated with hypothyroidism. According to my lab results, I'm slightly hypothyroid. So I'm going with that explanation. And I was thinking I'd watch my tongue to see if this cysteine thing affects it, since it should help out my thyroid.

Today I looked at my tongue in the mirror and it's HAIRY. And white. (and still big) And gross. It was NOT like that two days ago, though I think it has been like that in the past. I think it has to do with keratin. Which sounds like keratosis pilaris, AKA those bumps on the back of my arms and thighs.
A different way to look at tongue issues is TCM, if you want a different perspective. There are other things that can go along with the fat tongue, mine never has been (and I was clearly, blatantly hypo) but my husband's is (and I don't think he's hypo, though his TSH was a bit high--his free T3 was fine, I think it was more compensatory stress due to his adrenals, but yours are fine, so I guess there's other stuff--and maybe it is straight nutritional or straight detox pathway, or just a combo of those).

In terms of TCM, my husband's got a serious damp heat thing going. We did some herbs a while back that helped with the, I think heat part of that (it actually changed the color of his tongue, just like my HCP said it would) but it wasn't for the damp part, and with his adrenals so bad, he didn't feel any better. Sort of a bummer, but interesting to watch. But you may check into damp and dry foods and see if you think anything's out of balance and how that may fit into your situation.

My kids' tongues, I think, get more white coating when they're sick. Hope that's not your situation.
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Old 03-07-2009, 09:56 AM
 
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Today I looked at my tongue in the mirror and it's HAIRY. And white.
I thought the white coating, hairy symptom, was often yeast. Could it be that?
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Old 03-07-2009, 12:15 PM
 
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back to the bacteria... I found an interesting probiotic article:
Oral Administration of Probiotic Escherichia coli after Birth Reduces Frequency of Allergies and Repeated Infections Later in Life (after 10 and 20 Years)

How can I get me some e coli probiotics? I know friendly e coli are common in the gut, but that's not one of the usual lacto/bifido strains, is it?
Only the Germans have it, Mutaflor and maybe Hylak Forte.

Mutaflor, which is Nissle strain 1917, has a very interesting story behind it:

Quote:
The non-pathogenic E. coli strain Nissle 1917 (Mutaflor), originally isolated during World War I from a soldier who withstood a severe outbreak of diarrhoea affecting his detachment...

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...0388/HTMLSTART
Cites from makers of Mutaflor: http://www.ardeypharm.de/en/index.php?seite=evidence

History and background:
http://www.ardeypharm.de/en/index.ph...e=publications

I've always heard it mentioned that beneficial e. coli is in raw milk but have never confirmed it.
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Old 03-07-2009, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I thought the white coating, hairy symptom, was often yeast. Could it be that?
The thing is, it literally appeared overnight, and I don't have other symptoms of yeast/being sick. Under inspection, it really, really looks like extra long filiform papillae.

Thanks for the probiotic links, Jane!

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