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Old 03-27-2009, 04:57 PM
 
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I have been supplementing a LOT, but I've been seeing results that make me hope I'll be able to shift from supplements to foods pretty soon. I'm still on 1000mg B5, general B complex vitamins (taken individually to avoid folic acid), 10-15mg biotin, 200-400mg mag, adding 30+mg zinc, and vit C (large doses, but no bowel tolerance yet). Folate, vit A and vit D are the only ones I'm just doing food (and sun) on, really... On a side note, anyone know how much vit A and/or D in high quality yellow butter?

Don't know, be interested in learning if you find out.

I would see the methylation stuff as making it *more* likely you'll be ready to TTC - if that's what's been holding you back, adding it in could seriously speed things up!
I think you're right but, part of my worry is speeding up too much. The last time I talked with my HCP about wanting to add something in while chelating beyond my 50mg of ALA, she gave me several options (glycine was one, not sure if she would've recommended TMG or DMG (tri-methyl glycine or di-methyl, I have a better appreciation of them now than I did at the time)), or upping my dose of ALA to try 100mg or using an amino-acid detox product we've already got (my husband was taking 2/day for 3 months last year and felt fine, I tried 2 tablets, not at the same time in the spring and had weird mood issues for a month). But I decided to try the amino-acid detox stuff, she advised 1/2 tablet with each dose of ALA (the ALA to help with excretion of what was being mobilized)--uh, whoa. I stopped in less than a day and a half, my gut was having all sorts of weird issues and I just felt ragged. I want to try again but at a lower dosage, but so I am hesitant about adding in stuff, yk? And yet I think I need it to make progress. I'm thinking of alternating some of this stuff--oh, did I mention my bowel tolerance vitC during this process? I was trying to take enough vitC with each dose of ALA + amino-acid stuff to stay close to bowel tolerance, but even I got a bit freaked at taking 15 grams of SA every 3 hours and that's part of why I stopped sooner than expected. So figuring out how to balance this is a lot of trial-and-error. And I wish I knew _what_ this was mobilizing that's so different from just the ALA.

So I went over and checked, and among other things, 1 tablet has 125mg glycine, 50mg l-phenylalanine, 75mg l-methionine, 75mg l-cysteine, 50mg l-cystine and other stuff that's probably important but I don't recognize the function of most of it.

But the methylation topic is making things fit together better, in terms of understanding our issues.
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Old 03-27-2009, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think you're right but, part of my worry is speeding up too much...
replied in your thread

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Old 03-27-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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Are you avoiding B complex because you don't want the synthetic form of folate?

I take a b complex that has normal amounts of the B vitamins and it has 5 methyl folate.

http://www.phpure.com/nutrition_prod..._nano_plex.htm

BTW, I continue to follow this with high interest! If I weren't pregnant I would probably be experimenting.

TanyaLopez-I feel like I rushed into TTC too fast. I was feeling great but I was taking care of viral issues right before TTC and now during the whole pregnancy I have been run down with viral issues that got way worse because my body is busy making a baby. I may have been in a better place had I waited another 6-12 months.

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Old 03-27-2009, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you avoiding B complex because you don't want the synthetic form of folate?

I take a b complex that has normal amounts of the B vitamins and it has 5 methyl folate.

http://www.phpure.com/nutrition_prod..._nano_plex.htm

BTW, I continue to follow this with high interest! If I weren't pregnant I would probably be experimenting.
I'm avoiding folic acid, but have no issues with the source, so long as I'm getting the 5-MTHF form. I'd like to be able to get it all from food, but I'm not quite there yet.

That's an interesting B complex you posted. I'm confused about the folate/folic acid part, though. I'm under the impression that the food form is what I want, and when it lists amounts, it says folic acid instead of folate. And I'd heard that Merck had a patent on 5-MTHF supplements that was only licensed to metagenics (though I think Jacqueline? proved me wrong on that one before). Do you have something that explicitly says the form? And it's not 5,10 methyl folate?

I'm ready to be done experimenting so I can get pg

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Old 03-27-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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I'm avoiding folic acid, but have no issues with the source, so long as I'm getting the 5-MTHF form. I'd like to be able to get it all from food, but I'm not quite there yet.

That's an interesting B complex you posted. I'm confused about the folate/folic acid part, though. I'm under the impression that the food form is what I want, and when it lists amounts, it says folic acid instead of folate. And I'd heard that Merck had a patent on 5-MTHF supplements that was only licensed to metagenics (though I think Jacqueline? proved me wrong on that one before). Do you have something that explicitly says the form? And it's not 5,10 methyl folate?

I'm ready to be done experimenting so I can get pg
I remember that but I can't remember what thread we were talking about it in nor what supp it was.

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Old 03-27-2009, 09:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I remember that but I can't remember what thread we were talking about it in nor what supp it was.
I think it was your new prenatal?

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Old 03-27-2009, 09:19 PM
 
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One of the kids' supps has the form whoMe mentioned. It's one of the Thorne products, I think. Maybe they're licensing out the process? Or they had the original patent and it's expired? eta: Jacqueline's prenatal is Thorne, I remember noting that since we use so many Thorne products.

Nolansmum--part of me is getting antsy about the whole TTC issue. I mean--my goal is more than a year out (Apr2010), and that's a long time, a year ago I was just getting my fillings out, and I've done a lot since then. And how do I know when I'm done? Part of me thinks wow, I'll be 35 the next time I TTC (if that's what we decide) but then, I think a lot of the risks of older moms may be nutritional, and my first two kids, all in all, got off well given my nutritional problems and I'll be in a lot better place then than I was for them, but I don't want to feel miserable while pregnant (again), and I just go round and round on this. And in reality, and what I am trying to do, is make up a plan for things to try this coming year, and get some ideas on how to determine "done."
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:33 PM
 
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I think it was your new prenatal?
You think right. My prenatal has 2 forms of folate- calcium folinate (presumably folic acid) and 5-MTHF.

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Old 03-27-2009, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You think right. My prenatal has 2 forms of folate- calcium folinate (presumably folic acid) and 5-MTHF.
You know there's also a folinic acid? :

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Old 03-27-2009, 09:51 PM
 
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You know there's also a folinic acid? :
I had read that but didn't think it effected me. Guess I just learned otherwise.

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Old 03-27-2009, 11:50 PM
 
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My bottle says folic acid: 5-methyl and formyl tetrahydrofolate(52.7mcg) 400 mcg total in 1/2 teaspoon. I don't know why they don't say that on the websites.

I also take 800 mcg folapro a day.

Tanya- I hear you, age is knocking at my door and I would have been 35 if I had waited another year. I agree that nutrition effects the pregnancy greatly and that is much better with me now. I will be interested to see what my placenta looks like. I have been craving salads all through the pregnancy, so almost everyday I get a ton of fresh veggies. Hope my digestive system is getting it all . I have been feeling exhausted (like I have mono, which is one of the viruses I think I am battling) throughout this pregnancy, but that is compared to feeling amazing before I got pregnant. I used to feel exhausted like this all the time before I started all the 'healing' stuff so it is hard to tell if I feel worse this pregnancy than last time.

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Old 03-28-2009, 10:43 AM
 
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I think for us, I'm going to need to keep up with fairly high levels of supplementation for a few more years to get the kids close to full-up on a lot of these vitamins and minerals, especially given how slowly key things seem to be changing for my son (and again, thanks for the link between methylation and immune stuff, I want to read more but that could be an a-ha moment).
Tanya, how old are your kids and how are you supplementing them? I haven't been supplementing DS (almost 2) except with the occasional little bit of SA, and just hoping that he gets what he needs through my milk!

Also, can you point to where the link between methylation and immune stuff was? Thanks!
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Old 03-28-2009, 01:35 PM
 
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Tanya, how old are your kids and how are you supplementing them? I haven't been supplementing DS (almost 2) except with the occasional little bit of SA, and just hoping that he gets what he needs through my milk!

Also, can you point to where the link between methylation and immune stuff was? Thanks!
whoMe, in the thread I started called My Story mentioned that methylation and (I'd need to go back to remember exactly, but it had to do with viruses and the immune system) are related. And it came up because vitamin A and zinc are also really key to immune function (my son used to get sick a whole lot, now it's just maybe a bit more than typical), and I've been supping my kids for a year and a half at fairly high levels and they STILL show deficiency signs.

My health, and my kids' health, are affected by the mercury from my amalgam fillings--we have detoxification problems, so starting to see a link between methylation and immune function was really interesting. It took a long time (about 20 yrs after my amalgams were put in) for me to hit a wall, nutritionally, and that's when I went from feeling normal to feeling like death warmed over, and so my kids a) started with quite poor nutritional reserves, and b) a very high toxic load (mercury, a fair amount of arsenic, and various other chemicals I came in contact with throughout my life that I couldn't excrete because I was so rundown). I'm working with a HCP and I supplement just about every vitamin and mineral under the sun except copper and iron. I think it's a good supplementation/detox support for kids with issues like mine (the kids' symptoms are quite subtle, they don't have enough for any sort of diagnosis, but I've seen their behavior and demeanor change as I've worked on their health), but it's not necessary for everyone. But if you're interested, I can type it out.

eta: my kids were 14mos and 3.5yrs when I started supplementing, and they're almost 3 and 5 now
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:17 PM
 
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Has any one read this book," Genetic Bypass: Using Nutrition to Bypass Genetic Mutations"?
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:50 PM
 
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No but it sounds awesome! Like something we might need to read!! Can you report?
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Has any one read this book," Genetic Bypass: Using Nutrition to Bypass Genetic Mutations"?
I haven't, but I just looked it up - It's by Dr Amy Yasko, and it's her site that got me off the ground on all this, so I bet it's a good one.

This one is what I've been eyeing - now I've got to decide between the two!

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Old 03-30-2009, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What we're working on:

copper/zinc levels. I'm getting reflux/heartburn, especially in response to lentils . I think it's because my high zinc/low copper diet of virtually all meat is now a high copper/low zinc one with lots of lentils and other plant protein. I've been supping 30mg zinc, and it seems to help, kinda. The lentils and I are going through a rough spot...

Past blood work (1.5 yrs ago) show high/normal copper and low/normal zinc. I just had the labs redone last week, I'm curious what they'll say. Somewhere (I think it's in the chat thread?) I found something that vitamin C helps lower copper, and I'm bruising easily, so I'll up that.

calcium/A/D levels. I think we're vit A deficient. We don't do CLO, I've supped vit D for a little while there, and sun is causing weird symptoms. I think our calcium levels are high (despite really low intake) - as evidenced by my keratin issues and dd suddenly walking on her toes. Last night (after a day in the park), dd slept horribly, was totally congested, and at one point might have had muscle cramps (it felt hard when I squeezed her leg). I've been getting cramps too. I'm getting tartar on my teeth. I'm not sleeping as well despite keeping up on the B vitamins. And dd and I are having bowel issues that match high calcium/low mag, without changing our intake.

Calcium and cysteine are involved in keratin (NAC->fuzzy tongue); calcium and phosphorus for tarter, and now, calcium and sulfate for mucous (sun+MSM->congested?). Calcium and something else for sleep. vit D increases serum calcium, vitamin A inhibits that. I think we need more A (as opposed to less D. I'm going with WAPF here).

My plan is to switch to chicken liver as a folate/vit A source, and eat lots of oysters and vit C for the copper. I have a huge pitcher of water on the table that I doctor with a pinch of ascorbic acid (gets rid of chloramines), sodium ascorbate (for vit C) and a couple drops of lugol's (iodine). My goal is to finish the whole pitcher every day. That'll also help with dehydration/kidney issues. Hasn't happened yet, though...

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Old 03-30-2009, 06:40 PM
 
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Are you saying high calcium levels and toe walking are related?

And the high calcium is a low A situation? Wait, that's not fair--it's summer in Houston, and mostly warm (a few gray days lately) but we've been in the sun a fair amount lately, and I tend to choose clothes for the kids that expose as much skin as possible. Potentially, would an increase in toe-walking be due to increased D which is depleting A (or just making the balance poor--not actually using up A but imbalancing some processes?)? Cause my son's toe-walking has been more consistent lately and I haven't understood why (but I emailed my HCP asking for methylation support ideas).
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you saying high calcium levels and toe walking are related?

And the high calcium is a low A situation? Wait, that's not fair--it's summer in Houston, and mostly warm (a few gray days lately) but we've been in the sun a fair amount lately, and I tend to choose clothes for the kids that expose as much skin as possible. Potentially, would an increase in toe-walking be due to increased D which is depleting A (or just making the balance poor--not actually using up A but imbalancing some processes?)? Cause my son's toe-walking has been more consistent lately and I haven't understood why (but I emailed my HCP asking for methylation support ideas).
Yup. I think I got the toe walking idea from the vitaminK group. I think in our case, low A is the first angle I want to attack. There have to be other angles as well. I think A is supposed to inhibit D, and our D levels are too high in relation right now.

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Old 03-30-2009, 07:06 PM
 
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I need to keep watching, but that would mean that a) our sunlight experiment is working, b) I need to really work on methylation if A is carrying too much of the burden for us, since I already supp CLO at quite high levels (and I don't think my son has absorption issues), and I'm not sure even I am willing to go higher, c) I'm glad I asked for an appt with our HCP, and d) this is darn frustrating. May I reiterate point d? I've never gotten to use that smiley before.

I'm not 100% sure this is our situation yet--the folks on the vitK yahoo group all tend to have high calcium levels (then again, that's a fairly typical problem overall with ASD, from my reading even separate places), so it's not unexpected that we would have that issue. I'm going to start watching for tartar, see how the kiddo's doing there.

I need to look, again, into food sources (but not beef liver, that hasn't gone over well in the past).
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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what is the link for Vit K group? I really have few issues that I need to discuss there...
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Old 03-30-2009, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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what is the link for Vit K group? I really have few issues that I need to discuss there...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/

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Old 03-31-2009, 01:25 AM
 
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I found this interesting article about possibility of mega vitamins for the treatment for many genetic diseases, here is the link http://berkeley.edu/news/media/relea...04_vitam1.html
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:36 AM
 
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How do you get folate into your dd? My ds hates veggies.

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Old 03-31-2009, 01:53 AM
 
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I found this interesting article about possibility of mega vitamins for the treatment for many genetic diseases, here is the link http://berkeley.edu/news/media/relea...04_vitam1.html
Very cool. I think I want to pop over to their site and look at the discussion forum there. Be neat if someone's already using K2 (the doses of K2 my son and I are taking are definitely high, but I don't know what, exactly, we're compensating for).

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Old 03-31-2009, 02:07 AM
 
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Very cool. I think I want to pop over to their site and look at the discussion forum there. Be neat if someone's already using K2 (the doses of K2 my son and I are taking are definitely high, but I don't know what, exactly, we're compensating for).

Well darn, looks like that website is out of date, it looks like a shopping portal site now.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How do you get folate into your dd? My ds hates veggies.
Through me, primarily, but lentils, liver, romaine, asparagus, broccoli... Other legumes and peanuts are pretty good sources as well.

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Well darn, looks like that website is out of date, it looks like a shopping portal site now.
Worked for me " not that I've actually read it yet...

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Old 03-31-2009, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I had another ah ha moment last night while dd was watching videos till 9:30 and I was reading my biochem book in bed

I think I have high glutamate and/or low GABA.
I think I have high alpha-ketoglutarate.
All signs point to me having high ammonia.

High blood ammonia creates high brain ammonia. The way you get rid of ammonia in the brain is to bind it to alpha-ketoglutarate to create glutamate.

Not that that tells me anything new, it just ties the pieces together a little more tightly and reassures me that I'm somewhere on the right track.

eta: now the task is to figure out how it is, exactly, that high glutamate/low GABA relate to high calcium. Cause I know there's a link there, too...

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Old 03-31-2009, 12:44 PM
 
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Worked for me " not that I've actually read it yet...
No, I mean within the article it says the researchers who are all keen on this had set up a website to discuss, for both researchers and individuals, ideas on how to use megadoses of vitamins, what are people doing/seeing. It's near the bottom of the article, and I thought that would be a cool place to visit to see if anyone is using high-dose K2. But that website is the one that looks like a shopping portal now.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No, I mean within the article it says the researchers who are all keen on this had set up a website to discuss, for both researchers and individuals, ideas on how to use megadoses of vitamins, what are people doing/seeing. It's near the bottom of the article, and I thought that would be a cool place to visit to see if anyone is using high-dose K2. But that website is the one that looks like a shopping portal now.
You're right, that one looks dead... Didn't I say I hadn't read the article yet? :

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