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Old 02-12-2010, 03:03 PM
 
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What might cause a bad reaction to vit A? I think I've tracked it down as the cause of sore/blanching/vasospasming nipples in response to cold. I should be good on vit D (not great, but good) and it seems to be a reaction to both CLO and liver. So I'm guessing vit A. I'm also pretty sure I'm very low in A - I've got keratinized moles popping up that are a sign of vit A deficiency, and besides lots of kerrygold ghee, I haven't been getting much/any preformed A at all.

Any guesses? Leads? Other nutrients to try with it? Majorly increase the amount and see what happens?
I apologize for asking a question, but I've never heard of keratinized moles as a sign of vit a deficiency. The past two years my oldest has developed multiple small moles over his body. I couldn't find a non disgusting picture of a keratinized mole, so I'm not sure if that is what is going on with him. Do you have any more info?

My boys refuse to take FCLO (don't blame them) I give them vit a gelcaps made from CLO. I started this fall. Don't know if that could help you.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:18 PM
 
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My boys refuse to take FCLO (don't blame them) I give them vit a gelcaps made from CLO. I started this fall. Don't know if that could help you.
Blue ICe now has gummy fish - not the purest form of CLO but my ds loves them and even has been asking for two per day.

WhoMe: Have you had your vit D level checked lately? I only ask because I thought mine was fine until I had the test done last month... coming in at a deplorable 20 ng/dl (or whatever the units are). And though I'm in miserable midwest, I'm not pregnant and I'm not nursing.

If you're eating liver, that should be a good source of vit A.

If you were low in vit A, you'll probably also be low in vit K - and then you'd really be experiencing problems with mineralization.

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Old 02-12-2010, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I apologize for asking a question, but I've never heard of keratinized moles as a sign of vit a deficiency. The past two years my oldest has developed multiple small moles over his body. I couldn't find a non disgusting picture of a keratinized mole, so I'm not sure if that is what is going on with him. Do you have any more info?

My boys refuse to take FCLO (don't blame them) I give them vit a gelcaps made from CLO. I started this fall. Don't know if that could help you.
It's called a seborrheic keratosis, and is basically a mole that feels rough - almost like it has a scab on it. Apparently even more benign than a normal mole, and relatively common, especially as you get older. I found one paper that links them to vit A deficiency, but now I can't find it again (I'm on the other computer).

I was doing fclo in capsules when I was doing it. Ouchy nipples.
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WhoMe: Have you had your vit D level checked lately? I only ask because I thought mine was fine until I had the test done last month... coming in at a deplorable 20 ng/dl (or whatever the units are). And though I'm in miserable midwest, I'm not pregnant and I'm not nursing.

If you're eating liver, that should be a good source of vit A.

If you were low in vit A, you'll probably also be low in vit K - and then you'd really be experiencing problems with mineralization.
I had my D level checked at the end of the first trimester, and it was a 50 per Quest. So 30-something if you account for their inaccuracies. I was supping 5000IU for a while after that, and just started up again (ran out for a month or so). When I was doing the CLO and nipples were at their most painful, I was on D.

I'm not eating liver really at all. Noone else in the house will go near it, and I don't exactly like it, so it's tough to keep it up.

I've been doing lots of kerrygold ghee (it's our primary fat and I eat a lot of it), so it seems like I'd be pretty good on K. I have a tooth that's crumbling (the wisdom tooth is growing into it) and there's no pain. The dentists are all surprised and the oral surgeon yesterday said that most likely the exposed nerves are calcifying, and that's why it doesn't hurt. I'm getting lots of cal and mag. So I don't *think* I'm getting mineralization problems. What else could I look for?

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Old 02-12-2010, 05:58 PM
 
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What else could I look for?
how are your eyes? recall that your retina is a huge storage location for various forms of vit A. if your vision is off or your eyes are dry, you would definitely be low in vit A.

what about nails and hair?

acne and your other mentioned skin issues do point to low A.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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Old 02-12-2010, 06:06 PM
 
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What might cause a bad reaction to vit A? I think I've tracked it down as the cause of sore/blanching/vasospasming nipples in response to cold. I should be good on vit D (not great, but good) and it seems to be a reaction to both CLO and liver. So I'm guessing vit A. I'm also pretty sure I'm very low in A - I've got keratinized moles popping up that are a sign of vit A deficiency, and besides lots of kerrygold ghee, I haven't been getting much/any preformed A at all.

Any guesses? Leads? Other nutrients to try with it? Majorly increase the amount and see what happens?
I agree it doesn't seem likely that it's a K2 issue like it is for us. In myself, I've seen issues from CLO at fairly low dosages and vitA fish oil capsules that are much higher in A, but don't have that pesky EPA (just cause I think it's doing that blood thinning thing in me). I'm guessing some B vitamin for you? Doesn't seem like a typical Price nutrient, what if you increased some of your B vits? Have you ever had any issues with taking more of a B complex? If not, the downside is pretty small, I'd bump that up for a few days, then consume a lot of A and see what happens. You may need to work to figure out which B after that, but if it works, then at least you're feeling better.
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:16 PM
 
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Niacin is one of the therapies recommended for vasospasm, fwiw.

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Eyes are good (never needed glasses) but test ever so slightly farsighted. Lately, I've been having trouble focusing, especially on lights at dusk. And floaters while pg are common for me.

The odd thing is, I've never had nipple issues like this before, even when pg with dd, or when she was a newborn, or at freezing cold water polo practice when other people were complaining of hurting nipples. Hmm... I wonder if it has to do with the biotin.

B's. I'm on Thorne's basic B, plus additional folate, niacin, pantothenic acid, biotin, thiamin, riboflavin... either it's one of the other non-traditional b's or something else. IDK.

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Old 02-12-2010, 06:53 PM
 
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What I was thinking more was could you have something else imbalanced so that you need more than usual? Along the same lines as the biotin, albeit probably with a different reason? I don't remember how much is reasonably considered safe during pregnancy, I know my midwife told me to get a general B complex supp for my nausea (didn't help) but it was about 50mg of everything, I think that's generally regarded as safe, fwiw.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What I was thinking more was could you have something else imbalanced so that you need more than usual? Along the same lines as the biotin, albeit probably with a different reason?
ah, that makes more sense. I don't know about just blasting more B's, though, since I'm taking so many as it is, it doesn't seem likely that they're the culprit. Though I'm clearly very sensitive to the right balance of them. I just wouldn't know where to start... Maybe if I order those mineral taste tests, they'll have some clues. Depleting a mineral seems more likely to me right now.

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Old 02-13-2010, 02:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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How about another angle - maybe the vit A is knocking something loose, and *that's* what's causing the issues? Looking at kellymom, it sounds most like Raynauds, cause of the extreme sensitivity to cold, and the fact that it lasts a while. But I've never noticed blue color.

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Old 02-13-2010, 07:35 PM
 
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WhoMe, where are you getting kerrygold ghee?
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Old 02-13-2010, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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WhoMe, where are you getting kerrygold ghee?
I'm making it from kerrygold butter, though there is someone local who makes ghee and sells it. She has some from kerrygold and she ships if you want her contact info.

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Old 02-13-2010, 08:03 PM
 
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I'm making it from kerrygold butter, though there is someone local who makes ghee and sells it. She has some from kerrygold and she ships if you want her contact info.
Is it much more in cost to get it made into ghee? We can only have ghee and I usually make it myself. Well anyway, I would love her contact info. Thanks!
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:12 PM
 
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Whole Foods store has pure organic ghee.
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Old 02-14-2010, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Apparently vasospasm is also linked to cal/mag levels. I'm guessing that's going to be my cofactor - adjusting those to compensate for the changes due to vit A. It sounds like more mag would be the first thing to do (I'm already doing LOTS of calcium. More Ca isn't really an option) but since the fat soluble vitamins are my weak point, knowledge-wise, I'm not seeing thelink. Seems like it should be increasing my need for Ca, not Mg. Oh well. I have something to try. Now how do I increase both vit A and mag in practical terms...?

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Old 02-14-2010, 03:58 PM
 
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Apparently vasospasm is also linked to cal/mag levels. I'm guessing that's going to be my cofactor - adjusting those to compensate for the changes due to vit A. It sounds like more mag would be the first thing to do (I'm already doing LOTS of calcium. More Ca isn't really an option) but since the fat soluble vitamins are my weak point, knowledge-wise, I'm not seeing thelink. Seems like it should be increasing my need for Ca, not Mg. Oh well. I have something to try. Now how do I increase both vit A and mag in practical terms...?
I always thought one would need more Mag than Ca - Ca is included in general soil conditioners (even in organic farming) and is hence more present in most plants anyway. Mag is not generally applied to fields in any form yet is needed much more by far in the body. In most cases, whenever a biochem pathway requires ATP, it is bound to Mag.

If you figure out a way to get more mag dietarily, please do share. I have yet to find any way better than through supplements.

Jennifer, Naturopath and mom

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Old 02-14-2010, 11:24 PM
 
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That happened to me when I wasn't drinking my kefir as much, or eating as many fermented vegetables. The ph of the stomach (HCl) is relevant, iirc. (tired, up too late reading about this stuff. Found this fascinating article, which JaneS told me to read two years ago. )

http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm


Pat
Hi, could you send me a link or instructions to making water kefir? I've decided the dairy kefir and the coconut kefir are causing my symptoms to increase and I need the probiotics. Also I was confused because in reading the food chemical topics in plantpoisons it talks about avoiding the strains in kefir at all costs.

I've been relying on raw cultured cabbage for a lot of my pro-bs and I hate to give up the dairy since I believe it was helping me with oxalates but it definitely is increasing my bladder symptoms. I guess my gut is not healed and the nystatin is probably not helping that.

Thanks so much for your help
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:43 PM
 
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Hi, could you send me a link or instructions to making water kefir? I've decided the dairy kefir and the coconut kefir are causing my symptoms to increase and I need the probiotics. Also I was confused because in reading the food chemical topics in plantpoisons it talks about avoiding the strains in kefir at all costs.

I've been relying on raw cultured cabbage for a lot of my pro-bs and I hate to give up the dairy since I believe it was helping me with oxalates but it definitely is increasing my bladder symptoms. I guess my gut is not healed and the nystatin is probably not helping that.

Thanks so much for your help
How much kefir are you consuming? You only need a teaspoon to get huge microbial benefits.

I'd love to see the references you've read at plantpoisons. I don't agree with everything there, however.

You only need a forkful of cultured cabbage with each meal to get the benefits of improving stomach acid. I wouldn't eat a ton, if you have any thyroid issues.

Calcium helps oxalate issues. I believe that Epsom salt baths do too. And Omega 3 fatty acids.


Water Kefir photos and instructions: http://www.weim.net/homeovet/Docs/water%20kefir.pdf

Instructions: http://nourishedkitchen.com/water-kefir/

Making Water Kefir (on YouTube): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntei6_CEZNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-t9C7PoBRc (not necessary to rinse grains)

The King of Kefir: http://users.chariot.net.au/~dna/Makekefir.html#Kefir-d-acqua


Have you seen these threads:
Time to learn about oxalates
Salicylate/Amine/Histamine Sensitive Tribe
I Broke My Bladder: Inducing Interstitial Cystitis


Glad to send you some water kefir grains, if you need them.



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Old 02-24-2012, 04:03 PM
 
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another tomb of information


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