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#61 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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Thanks, I'll take a look around. We have all kinds of mental illness in my family. It gets curiouser and curiouser.

Pat
We have depression all over my family (both sides), anxiety, some weird stuff like bipolar and happy stuff like alcoholism. Happens a lot with, um, what miasm? The syphilic one, I always mix up the two that start with s's. And we are prone to metal detoxification problems (which caused my hypothyroidism and I think was the start of my adrenal fatigue, though that took years and years to be obvious to me). This is what made me think there really could be something to homeopathy (plus PB's testimonials!). My husband's family doesn't have any of this (other problems, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes and probably some other subtle stuff that I haven't clued into yet) but he didn't get sick from his amalgam fillings.
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#62 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have depression all over my family (both sides), anxiety, some weird stuff like bipolar and happy stuff like alcoholism. Happens a lot with, um, what miasm? The syphilic one, I always mix up the two that start with s's. And we are prone to metal detoxification problems (which caused my hypothyroidism and I think was the start of my adrenal fatigue, though that took years and years to be obvious to me). This is what made me think there really could be something to homeopathy (plus PB's testimonials!). My husband's family doesn't have any of this (other problems, high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes and probably some other subtle stuff that I haven't clued into yet) but he didn't get sick from his amalgam fillings.
If the depression is related to serotonin, then you can raise your serotonin levels. Tryptophan is a precursor, and it requires BH4. BH4 is lowered with MTHFR 1298, and is used up by the transsulfuration sequence. There are ways to slow down the transulfuration sequence, but I'm not going to get into the details here. I'll make a video explaining in the next couple of days

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#63 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:21 PM
 
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And what's funny/ironic? I think I have a pretty severe case of ADD right now, meaning I can't focus/think about anything else. Nothing. And without that obsession, I wouldn't have been able to put it together.
Me too. You think?

But, I'm taking my remedy in the morning.


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#64 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:24 PM
 
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If the depression is related to serotonin, then you can raise your serotonin levels. Tryptophan is a precursor, and it requires BH4. BH4 is lowered with MTHFR 1298, and is used up by the transsulfuration sequence. There are ways to slow down the transulfuration sequence, but I'm not going to get into the details here. I'll make a video explaining in the next couple of days
Videos are good. I need to catch up from my weekend computer-less but I am getting intimidated! And I think it was serotonin-related because my SSRIs worked nicely, and they worked for my parents too (I think at one time we were _all_ on antidepressants at once!). I've had some interesting, thankfully brief, weird mood things while chelating, so moving metals is doing some of this, but that seems to be in the past. : But I'd love to hear/read/whatever about it.

We really need to get some short notes written up somewhere, maybe I need to check out the Heal Thyself site and see what's already there. And I need to take notes, too, because writing this stuff makes it stick in my brain. :
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#65 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:25 PM
 
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We have depression all over my family (both sides), anxiety, some weird stuff like bipolar and happy stuff like alcoholism.
Are you sure we're not related?
My DF's side also has fun stuff like diabetes and hypothyroidism and congenital heart failure. My mom's side is basically as you've described, and then the one aunt with an unknown bleeding disorder and her daughter with hypoT as well.

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#66 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:30 PM
 
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Are you sure we're not related?
My DF's side also has fun stuff like diabetes and hypothyroidism and congenital heart failure. My mom's side is basically as you've described, and then the one aunt with an unknown bleeding disorder and her daughter with hypoT as well.
There's a reason we're together on all these threads! Glad to hear you're feeling better. One of my uncles had a congenital heart problem, not sure what.
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#67 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:32 PM
 
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There's a reason we're together on all these threads! Glad to hear you're feeling better. One of my uncles had a congenital heart problem, not sure what.
Oops. I meant congestive... that's what I get for simultaneously looking for ketchup recipes (since all of my cookbooks are still packed).

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#68 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 08:59 PM
 
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WhoMe--do you have any place discussing phase 1 detoxification? My read of the tuberose site is that phase 1 can detoxify some things on its own (caffeine is one, I am quite caffeine sensitive and my husband is quite insensitive re: caffeine) or phase 1 can make toxins more reactive, chemically, and then phase 2 (and the 6 pathways we've been discussing) comes into play. So it seems like phase 1 needs at least a little discussion. I was just re-reading about glutathione, we'll use it to deal with the free radicals that are created by phase 1, and if we have lots o' toxins to deal with, it can get all used up doing clean-up after phase 1 (the liver doesn't want all those free radicals hanging around) and then there won't be anything left for phase 2. Vitamin C helps deal with those free radicals as well, I'm not sure if I'm reading it right, but it looks like it would have a sparing effect on glutathione. But it seems like understanding your phase 1, and maybe increasing the throughput there, could help with this whole process (though I thought it was interesting that a bad mis-match between phase 1 and phase 2 could cause problems--fast phase 1 means there are lots of very chemically active toxins around and if phase 2 is slow, then they're wreaking havoc all over the place--and fast phase 1 could use up lots of glutathione which would slow down that part of phase 2, and if you've got metal problems, then it seems like it could get bad fast).
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#69 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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WhoMe--do you have any place discussing phase 1 detoxification? My read of the tuberose site is that phase 1 can detoxify some things on its own (caffeine is one, I am quite caffeine sensitive and my husband is quite insensitive re: caffeine) or phase 1 can make toxins more reactive, chemically, and then phase 2 (and the 6 pathways we've been discussing) comes into play. So it seems like phase 1 needs at least a little discussion. I was just re-reading about glutathione, we'll use it to deal with the free radicals that are created by phase 1, and if we have lots o' toxins to deal with, it can get all used up doing clean-up after phase 1 (the liver doesn't want all those free radicals hanging around) and then there won't be anything left for phase 2. Vitamin C helps deal with those free radicals as well, I'm not sure if I'm reading it right, but it looks like it would have a sparing effect on glutathione. But it seems like understanding your phase 1, and maybe increasing the throughput there, could help with this whole process (though I thought it was interesting that a bad mis-match between phase 1 and phase 2 could cause problems--fast phase 1 means there are lots of very chemically active toxins around and if phase 2 is slow, then they're wreaking havoc all over the place--and fast phase 1 could use up lots of glutathione which would slow down that part of phase 2, and if you've got metal problems, then it seems like it could get bad fast).
No, I haven't really looked at phase 1 yet. It does seem relevant, but when I had my liver tested last year (when I was at a low point), I didn't have free radical damage. And before I was pg/nursing, caffeine didn't have much of any affect on me at all So I haven't really looked there. Maybe it can be an indicator of glutathione levels?

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#70 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 09:42 PM
 
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See, I guess because my phase 1 has been quite slow that this was the first thing I needed to think about. I think it's inherently slow and then as my toxic load built-up everything spiralled around and bogged down more (I am _so_ good with technical explanations) that it probably slowed even more. My husband's parents, in the winter, would drink a cup of black coffee (regular) together before bed. Both of them were fine with that.

So does that imply that you've got decent glutathione levels? If you don't have free radical damage, then you've had enough glutathione to keep up with whatever your phase 1 has been doing, and yeah, then phase 2 things will be your limiters. Apparently there's a 5-fold difference in speed of phase 1 for apparently healthy people (though I have to wonder--I was "apparently healthy" for a couple decades before this train ran me down, so I'm not sure on this--but 5-fold is probably a good guess for the variety of folks we have here, maybe even more than that).

So you probably don't have metal issues, even if you do have fillings?
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#71 of 829 Old 02-17-2009, 09:52 PM
 
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--and fast phase 1 could use up lots of glutathione which would slow down that part of phase 2, and if you've got metal problems, then it seems like it could get bad fast).
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Glutathione, the body's master antioxidant and detoxifier, is one of the 14 "Superfoods" listed in SuperFoods Rx : Fourteen Foods That Will Change Your Life, co-authored by Dr Steven Pratt.

Glutathione levels cannot be increased to a clinically beneficial extent by orally ingesting a single dose of glutathione. (1) This is because glutathione is manufactured inside the cell, from its precursor amino acids, glycine, glutamate and cystine.

Hence food sources or supplements that increase glutathione must either provide the precursors of glutathione, or enhance its production by some other means.

The manufacture of glutathione in cells is limited by the levels of its sulphur-containing precursor amino acid, cysteine.

Cysteine - as a free amino acid - is potentially toxic and is spontaneously catabolized or destroyed in the gastrointestinal tract and blood plasma. However, when it is present as a cysteine-cysteine dipeptide, called cystine, it is more stable than cysteine.

Consuming foods rich in sulphur-containing amino acids can help boost glutathione levels. Here are some food sources and dietary supplements that help boost glutathione levels naturally.
Milk thistle, asparagus, whey protein, Indian curry spice, curcumin (turmeric), Brazil nuts.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Food-Sourc...urally&id=1177



Foods to help Phase 1 Detox:


Beets
Broccoli
Brown Ricehttp://www.gmhc.org/images/liver/carrot.gif
Carrots
Eggs
Garlic
Spinach
Tomatoes
Wheatgerm
Melons and peppers
Tomatillos, papaya, plantains, carambola and guava

Foods to Help Phase Two Detoxification

Broccoli
Cabbage
Eggs
Brazil Nuts
Garlic
Onions
Papaya and Avocado
Mushrooms



Foods for the General Health of the Liver

Soy Beans contain lecithin which helps the liver break down fats and helps reduce high cholesterol levels; lecithin also helps maintain healthy membranes around liver cells.

Cayenne Pepper
Lemon
Walnuts
Caraway Seeds


My new favorite site: http://www.gmhc.org/health/nutrition/liver/food.html




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#72 of 829 Old 02-18-2009, 12:12 AM
 
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And Pat, one of the things that helped link it all for me was that some of the minerals that are important in that list, things like zinc and selenium, are also important for proper thyroid function. One can become hypothyroid if one (me) is so low in these minerals that one's (my) thyroid doesn't have enough minerals to use to make thyroid hormone. I guess it really does all come down to detoxification.

And I will check out your new favorite site, I bet it's a good one (as if I didn't have enough to read already!).
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#73 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Our update:

Monday's favorite foods were avocado and green peppers. We went out for mexican food with my mom I also went to the tanning salon for the first time (trying to increase vit D) and ordered by UVB lamp.

Yesterday dd had a runny nose, and it looks like she has a cold. Last night, I got a sore throat and it looks like I have a cold, too. I'm REALLY hoping it's not a recurrance of last month's strep throat.

We've been getting sick a LOT lately. More this winter than ever before in my life. Last month's strep was my third sore throat in *10 days.* It was also a month into our failsafe experiment. My theory right now is that our version of failsafe was really low in folate. It dropped our methylation even further, and one symptom of low methyl groups/low dopamine is lack of resistance to viruses and microbes. I think that just about describes us right now.

So on the way home from the Dr's office today (no ear infection, yay!), I stopped and got new vitamins. I mostly wanted to replace the new brand of B5 I was trying because it's not doing it's job in letting me sleep. I also saw a bottle of vit D3, so I grabbed it. Dh decided that it was worth it to push the folate to keep us from getting sick so much, and that we'd just deal with the mood side effects. I'm hoping the D3 will keep those to a minimum, and that the UVB lamp will help raise my levels even faster.

Today during dinner, those low dopamine/ADD/I'm a failure because I can't even keep my head straight to make dinner appeared. It's actually kinda interesting to observe, knowing what's going on and not thinking that it's something that's inherently wrong with me And I TOTALLY have sympathy for anyone with ADD!

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#74 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And today's favorite is more applesauce

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#75 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 01:16 PM
 
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A couple questions:
1. Can you work on phase 1 and phase 2 detox at the same time? or does phase 1 precede phase 2?

2. are there side effects to detoxing? if so, how do you distinguish between them and a food intolerance reaction?



oh and if that's how low dopamine manifests itself, then that's totally me:

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#76 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A couple questions:
1. Can you work on phase 1 and phase 2 detox at the same time? or does phase 1 precede phase 2?

2. are there side effects to detoxing? if so, how do you distinguish between them and a food intolerance reaction?
Phase 1 detox requires glutathione. If you look at the tuberose link, there's a bit about how you can stimulate either phase 1 or phase 2.

The side effects I'm experiencing now have to do with low dopamine (I think) and general imbalance of neurotransmitters. In terms of the standard 'detox' reactions, I've read in a few places that starting up the methyl cycle after it's been off for a while can release toxins.

As for distinguishing, the crux of this is that food intolerance reactions don't really matter. They're a sign that the detox pathways aren't working right, but other than quality of life issues, they're not really something that *needs* to be avoided. So IOW, if you're opening pathways and you can deal with the reaction, you probably don't have to worry about doing harm with exposure to a food you're intolerant of. Of course IgE allergies are a different story...

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#77 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 02:30 PM
 
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Is there a "cheat sheet" questionaire that gives clues as to which, if any, detox pathways are blocked? How do you know if your dopemine is low?

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Is there a "cheat sheet" questionaire that gives clues as to which, if any, detox pathways are blocked? How do you know if your dopemine is low?

Dopamine
and
Homocysteine

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#79 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 03:25 PM
 
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#80 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 03:53 PM
 
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Excellent excellent educational series. Thanks for doing this. I CANNOT WAIT FOR MORE. Okay, patience.

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#81 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have plans for more, but just realized I have an anatomy quiz tomorrow that I still need to study for!

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#82 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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I watched your videos that you posted. I have a few questions now that my brain has been stimulated again about this subject.


To help unblock the methylation cycle one would want to take hydroxy B12 + Folate (Folapro) to get this cycle going, whereas the methyl form of B12 bypasses the process. Now, I have nothing to back this up, it was something I came across awhile ago and now I have none of the links on my computer.

Wouldn't epsom salt baths help the sulfation cycle more than just taking magnesium orally? I googled epsom salt + sulfation and came up with a lot of informative websites. The gut healing and general detoxification properties have so many benefits also.

Wouldn't digestive enzymes also be helpful in this process? I know I mentioned this before but I cannot remember your answer. If food is broken down to get all its nutritional value (amino acids, minerals, vits etc) you have more of a chance at getting these necessary nutrients in a balanced ratio rather than taking a pill and getting an overload of one component. But, if you have a damaged gut and or don't digest your food well you can eat nutritious foods without getting their benefit.

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#83 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To help unblock the methylation cycle one would want to take hydroxy B12 + Folate (Folapro) to get this cycle going, whereas the methyl form of B12 bypasses the process. Now, I have nothing to back this up, it was something I came across awhile ago and now I have none of the links on my computer.
Methyl vs Hydroxy B12 depends on what combination of MTR and MTRR you have. This site outlines it pretty well.

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Wouldn't epsom salt baths help the sulfation cycle more than just taking magnesium orally? I googled epsom salt + sulfation and came up with a lot of informative websites. The gut healing and general detoxification properties have so many benefits also.
That's what I would think too, but honestly I haven't really looked into it. I heard once that epsom salts can be hard on your gut, so I've just stuck to the baths. We don't notice much of an effect anyway, so I might not be the right person to ask...
Quote:
Wouldn't digestive enzymes also be helpful in this process? I know I mentioned this before but I cannot remember your answer. If food is broken down to get all its nutritional value (amino acids, minerals, vits etc) you have more of a chance at getting these necessary nutrients in a balanced ratio rather than taking a pill and getting an overload of one component. But, if you have a damaged gut and or don't digest your food well you can eat nutritious foods without getting their benefit.
Yeah, if you have a damaged gut, enzymes could make a huge difference. But I'm finding that I have no reason to believe my gut is in bad shape - I've always passed the beet test, so my HCl is probably normal and that's a huge first step. My enterolab results (at a low point last year, after 6mo off of gluten) showed normal fat absorption, so my villi should be good. SCD didn't make a difference for me, and I've never really noticed die off from probiotics, so I don't think I have a bacterial overgrowth or candida, and I think I actually do a decent job of detoxing. I *don't* think I have the best mix of bacteria, though, so I'm doing probiotics. The only time I had major digestive symptoms was on this 19 month elimination diet, and I can trace those to specific nutrient deficiencies. And then, yes, enzymes made a huge difference.

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#84 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 10:15 PM
 
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What is the beet test?

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What is the beet test?
If your urine turns pink after eating beets, it means you're low in HCl. Which can be the product of a zinc deficiency. Which can be a result of... and on and on.

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#86 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 10:19 PM
 
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chlobo,
if you eat beets, your pee should not turn pink/red. If it does, you have low HCl (hydrochloric acid) so your digestion is impaired- there won't be the right balance of enzymes in your digestive system, won't get the proper nutrients from the food you *do* eat, etc etc.

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#87 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 10:55 PM
 
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Ok. How juicy do the beets have to be? We overcooked some in the oven the other day. I can use those. How many should I eat? What is the usual transit time for beets?

BTW, I was thinking about starting a "back of the envelope" testing thread. where people list all the "anecdotal-type tests" they know of:

Beets for HCL
Iodine patch test
etc.......

What do you think?

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#88 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 10:56 PM
 
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i wrote about this on homeopathy thread too but my homeopath did caution us about ingesting epsom salts and asked that we not do that. she feels that they can be toxic for some people whose dig systems are sensitive and has clients who have tried to detox their livers but wound up creating more toxicity that was difficult to remedy. she recommended green juices, beet juices and lemon juice for detoxing and epsom baths.
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#89 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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BTW, I was thinking about starting a "back of the envelope" testing thread. where people list all the "anecdotal-type tests" they know of:

Beets for HCL
Iodine patch test
etc.......

What do you think?
like this one?

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
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#90 of 829 Old 02-19-2009, 11:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chlobo View Post
Ok. How juicy do the beets have to be? We overcooked some in the oven the other day. I can use those. How many should I eat? What is the usual transit time for beets?
DD and I shared one medium sized beet, and we both had pink pee within 20 minutes. I would eat as many as you can stomach.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
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