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#1 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 01:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok. I think I'm ready. But first I have a couple of questions I need to sort through.

Do I ramp up or do it all at once?
Do I start dd first (nursing 2yo), or both of us together?
How long till I start to see results?
Are high supplement amounts of nutrients required, or can I do this with food alone?How do I wean off of the megadoses of vitamins I currently need to avoid fights?

What's really cool is:
-how simple and straightforward my nutrient list is
-how the foods high in those nutrients are DD's FAVORITE FOODS (including brussels sprouts, broth, roe...)
-how so many of the foods we're eating now are on the right track, and I still love eating them despite not changing the short list in the past 2+ months

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#2 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 02:09 AM
 
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Oh, exciting!

Is DD on supplements? (I guess via bm?) I was going to say it might be clearer for just her, but probably not, hm.

Would ramping give you any clearer picture? How long did supplements take for you to feel effects? Can you make a weaning to food / vitamin content conversion? Like reduce supps while increasing whole food nutrients needed?

I love brussels sprouts - do you roast them (tossed in olive oil)? They taste like french fries.
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#3 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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She's on my supps through milk. She also enjoys sucking on magnesium citrate and methyl B12 lozenges, and I let her.

My thought on ramping was to not release toxins too quickly. One paper I was reading talked about too high of a dosage of folate builds up toxin momentum - so if you don't like the side effects, you're stuck with them for longer.

The main supplements are pantothenic acid (B5) + B complex. I can miss about a day, but after that I get grouchy. In theory, as the other pathways open up I should be able to cut back on the B5. Without the B5, I don't (think I) need the complex.


Tonight we had brussels sprouts, cut in half, cut side browned in ghee, then simmered in broth. Served with gravy made from bone broth (folate, calcium D-glucurate, betaine, methionine, EFAs... detox power meal!) Then dd asked for roe and water kefir for dessert. This is fun!

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#4 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 11:43 AM
 
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subbing!

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#5 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 02:07 PM
 
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subbing too.

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#6 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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#7 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 03:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My plan

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#8 of 829 Old 02-14-2009, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So our plan for dd is to provide lots of choices of foods that are high in the nutrients I think she's likely to be low in. And completely let her choose what she wants to eat. Today she ate a half a bar's worth of dark chocolate that dh got for valentine's day, but some of it had soy lecithin. Then she ate an avocado and a half. We hadn't been doing either because of amines and salicylates.

I swapped supplements - Stress B complex is replaced with thiamine and riboflavin. So now I'm taking those, plus pantothenic acid, PLP (active B6), biotin and magnesium citrate.

For lunch, we had lentils (high folate, new food) and rice.

Naptime didn't happen, and then she was totally out of sorts, then saying her tummy and her nose felt sick, then crying (protesting) while I wrapped her up and 'forced' her to nap. And woke up happy after a normal-length nap.

So I think she's reacting to something. I was a little gassy myself. My two suspects are chocolate/soy lecithin and lentils, but it was so soon after the lentils, I'm leaning towards soy lecithin. Everything's going to stay on the menu except for chocolate for the next week.

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#9 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 12:57 AM
 
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Did you soak the lentils first? They become more digestible and have more bio-available nutrients. Save the soak water for making broth.

I highly recommend Amanda Rose's free E-course on soaking to neutralize the anti-nutrient phytic acid: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.c...ytic_acid.html Phytic acid is a strong chelator of a lot of minerals.

Here is an article with a somewhat contrary position, with historical references. http://www.breadbeckers.com/phytic_a...end_or_foe.htm

And a scientific perspective. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...709f5a9d643f46

ETA: phosphatidylserine- occurs in soy lecithin


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#10 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. I was thinking lentils were one you *didn't* have to soak, but I'll definitely start! I'm curious about the 'binding to metals' aspect, though... That's a significant part of clearing these detox pathways! Definitely worth looking into more later. I want to open the pathways, then add iodine to bring out toxins. In that phase, I wonder if phytate might be helpful!

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#11 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm going to post lots of detail here, cause it'll probably be nice to have a record later And because some people learn best by following an example.

Dinner included more avocado cravings for dd, more lentils, and our beet test Dd loved the beets.

Avocados are high in folate and B6!

Thankfully, dd's been more or less her usual self since waking up.

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#12 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:58 AM
 
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Subbing...Interesting thread.

Have you considered using digestive enzymes to help you get all you can out of the food you eat?

Do you use epsom salt baths to help detox?

We create our own reality.
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#13 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 02:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Nolansmum View Post
Subbing...Interesting thread.

Have you considered using digestive enzymes to help you get all you can out of the food you eat?

Do you use epsom salt baths to help detox?
I totally relied on digestive enzymes for several months - I had lost my ability to digest carbs. Starting vitamins (B5, B complex) let me off the enzymes for about a month, then I needed them again. Adding biotin, I've been off of them for a few months now and I think it's what I was needing. I don't have other (obvious) indicators that I'm not absorbing well, so I choose fewer supplements

We do epsom salt baths about once a week, but I can't say I've noticed much of anything from doing them.

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#14 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 10:32 AM
 
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how'd the beet pee test go?

(I COMPLETELY and spectacularly failed mine yesterday after passing a few weeks ago... I wonder what that means.)

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
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#15 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by menomena View Post
how'd the beet pee test go?

(I COMPLETELY and spectacularly failed mine yesterday after passing a few weeks ago... I wonder what that means.)
That happened to me when I wasn't drinking my kefir as much, or eating as many fermented vegetables. The ph of the stomach (HCl) is relevant, iirc. (tired, up too late reading about this stuff. Found this fascinating article, which JaneS told me to read two years ago. )

http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm


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#16 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I get an A- The only time I know that I failed it was when we were at our lowest, allergy/nutrition-wise last year.

As far as I know, dd passed hers too. And dh thinks he passed his, which would be a first!

My understanding (and I forget what I learned where or from who) is that zinc is needed to make HCl. HCl is needed to activate an enzyme that breaks down the beet pigment. So if your pee turns red, something along that chain is broken.

Other things can stimulate HCl release. One of those things is histamine. There is histamine in sauerkraut, so I'm assuming it's a fermented thing, and that's why kefir and fermented veggies make a difference.

HCl is also necessary to break down proteins for digestion - inadequate HCl is part of the factor in the opoid factor of gluten and casein. Which would probably explain why I could just go GFCF and not look back so many moons ago - no addiction whatsoever.

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#17 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:45 PM
 
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Interesting. I definitely have the opioid addiction thing to gluten & dairy.

per the taste-testing thingie I did, my HCl is seriously low. the citric acid tasted SWEET to me.

I also cannot digest grains. They go straight through me. Yuck. (I eat them though, otherwise, my food bill is like $250/wk for me to feel full otherwise.) If I take enzymes, I do okay.

Okay, I just put that link Pat posted in another tab. Hopefully I will be able to read it later today.

Oh!! last time I had beets I also had kombucha that day. Woah.

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#18 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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per the taste-testing thingie I did, my HCl is seriously low. the citric acid tasted SWEET to me.
I volunteer at a farm, giving tours for school field trips. One of the things we do is taste rhubarb - it's like sour candy. Some of the kids love it and some can't stand it. Last year, it didn't really taste sour to me at all. This year I can't handle it.

Dd LOVES it.

hmmm...

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#19 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:52 PM
 
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Oooh. I LOVE rhubarb. I make a fabulous rhubarb-spinach sauce thingie to put over chicken & rice noodles. DH haaaaaaaaates it. Haaaaates. Lol But when we did the taste test the citric acid was way sour for him.

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#20 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wait, there's another variable here. In that time, I've also been healing my adrenals. My aldosterone has shown signs of going from low (salt cravings, neon yellow pee with riboflavin) to more normal (normal salt intake, no more neon pee). The kidneys use aldosterone to balance acid/base. So that's probably closely tied in as well! What causes what and what's just correlational, I have no idea

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#21 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 03:05 PM
 
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Wait, there's another variable here. In that time, I've also been healing my adrenals. My aldosterone has shown signs of going from low (salt cravings, neon yellow pee with riboflavin) to more normal (normal salt intake, no more neon pee). The kidneys use aldosterone to balance acid/base. So that's probably closely tied in as well! What causes what and what's just correlational, I have no idea
Huh. I had no idea that had to do with aldosterone.
Darn adrenals.

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#22 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 04:45 PM
 
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I also cannot digest grains. They go straight through me. Yuck. (I eat them though, otherwise, my food bill is like $250/wk for me to feel full otherwise.) If I take enzymes, I do okay.
I am evangelical about Green Juice! :

I used to "need" an animal protein first thing in the morning or else I'd graze on carbs all day long. I didn't realize that green juice has all the amino acids to make a complete protein, AND all the essential amino acids!!

"Greens are one of the most nutritious whole food we can eat but we rarely eat enough of them. They are loaded with antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, enzymes and amino acids (protein). The truth is, you can get more nutrients in a pint of green smoothie than most people get in a full day of "normal" eating!' http://forum.gotgreensrevolution.com....php?topic=8.0

Just water (preferably mineral water), plus fruit, plus baby greens in a standard blender! Or use a juicer to extract the juice from dark, leafy greens (optimal). OMGosh, I feel better with green juice for breakfast. It has vitamin K, A, C, E, manganese, folate, magnesium, iron, B2, calcium, potassium, B6, tryptophan, etc. http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

This is a useful post about the purpose of individual vitamins and minerals: http://www.bodybuilding-tips.net/s21/t7060.html


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#23 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 06:53 PM
 
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Now Pat, this isn't like the fermented veggies - you talk the talk. lol.

My blender is tied up with pancake mix.

Can you tell me which greens you use specifically? I am going to whole foods & would like to buy the right stuff. Do you need to blend a long time? And when you say dark leafy are you referring to kale? spinach? Swiss Chard?

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#24 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 07:17 PM
 
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And how much do you use? I just bought some kale to try out tomorrow.

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#25 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 07:32 PM
 
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As much as I would *love* to contribute in a helpful way to this thread, instead I will be asking yet another question

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Did you soak the lentils first? They become more digestible and have more bio-available nutrients.
Pat, the Amanda Rose place says to soak in really warm water, Nourishing Traditions says soak in whey...

It would be easier for me to soak them in an acidic medium than to keep them at 140F, but can I use goat kefir instead of whey? Will it taste really weird if I do this? DS can't digest lentils (only legume I've tried) but I wonder if he could if I soaked them first.
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#26 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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I can't do whey. Can I use lemon or lime?

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#27 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 07:37 PM
 
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chlobo, Nourishing Traditions says to use whey or lemon, but we can't do lemon.

ETA I better check on that to be sure
Yep, says to do lentils, water, whey OR lemon juice, and let soak for 7 hours
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#28 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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Now Pat, this isn't like the fermented veggies - you talk the talk. lol.

My blender is tied up with pancake mix.

Can you tell me which greens you use specifically? I am going to whole foods & would like to buy the right stuff. Do you need to blend a long time? And when you say dark leafy are you referring to kale? spinach? Swiss Chard?

I eat my fermented veggies. I just don't make them myself.

I know, I'm needing another blender too, as mine is tied up with blender batter, half the time.

I use whichever greens are local, or organic and available: kale, collards, Swiss Chard, Romaine lettuce, beet greens, cucumber, celery, spinach, watercress, parsley, bock choy, wheat grass, alfalfa sprouts, dandelion, arugula, turnip greens, etc. I've tried most of those with the juicer. The thicker greens don't blend as well in the blender. They "juice" better in the juicer, imo, unless you have a Vitamix. Otherwise, you end up with liquid bits of salad. It is a bit weird. But, the baby greens are wonderful for the blender juice.

I add about one tightly packed cup of greens to about 4 cups of liquid. sorta, not really measured, just stuffed into the blender. It'll keep for a couple of days in a tightly sealed container; but looses nutrients when exposed to air. Still, tons more nutritious than anything else.

I make up a bag of carrots, apple, lemon, greens, etc. for each day. Then I just grab a bag and juice it. I wash everything just before juicing.

Blend for about a minute. Don't heat the juice with an overheated blender.


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#29 of 829 Old 02-15-2009, 07:49 PM
 
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Pat, the Amanda Rose place says to soak in really warm water, Nourishing Traditions says soak in whey...

It would be easier for me to soak them in an acidic medium than to keep them at 140F, but can I use goat kefir instead of whey? Will it taste really weird if I do this? DS can't digest lentils (only legume I've tried) but I wonder if he could if I soaked them first.
A splash of ACV or whey or kefir, or even just with water. But, the acid medium/kefir is best, per my understanding. I'm not certain about lemons, but I believe that is ok.


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#30 of 829 Old 02-16-2009, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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abort, abort :

Ok, I missed something. Increasing folate will increase methylation. More methyl groups means more dopamine break down. Remember me? I'm (thinking I'm) low in dopamine. Really low. I don't want to get any lower, in fact I want to *raise* that.

Vitamin D is somehow necessary for dopamine, and I'm low in that, too.

So, after buying a bunch of lentils and cooking a huge batch of (soaked) ones to have handy in the fridge, I figured out that's why I wasn't feeling so hot. Which is about right for me - every big food commitment means completely changing my eating plan as soon as it's too late

New plan: get UVB lamp to start increasing vitamin D. Once I start to feel better, THEN start again with the folate to open the detox pathways.

And I'm realizing that if there are bad toxins messing with the behavior of the cycles, then everything will be evolving constantly and it'll be totally up in the air which pathways are doing what. That sounds super complicated, but I have faith that I'll be able to figure it out when the time comes...

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