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#121 of 1021 Old 08-05-2009, 10:19 PM
 
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calcium supps make me feel bad also. I got tired of throwing up after taking them, so I stopped.

I recently remembered that when I used Standard Process supps, I had a great combo that finally made a dent in my "wicked" calcium deficiency.
It is Calcifood http://www.naturamart.com/standard-p...00-wafers.html

and another one that I just can't figure out.
Both of them have foods in it that we can't have, but we don't seem to react to the calcifood. I did need to stop the second one (which I can't remember).

My NP really pushed the calcium lactate. It never bothered my stomach, but it was in powder form and it was gross. I meant to order some more today (just finished my order) but I forgot .

eta: I just remembered. It is called Biost. I really loved it, and meant to order it tonight as well. oh well. I want to try it again.
http://www.naturamart.com/standard-p...0-tablets.html

I've come to believe that if a supplement makes you want to puke, well then, it is not doing to much for you.

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#122 of 1021 Old 08-05-2009, 10:25 PM
 
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I don't get enough calcium. I just keep forgetting to take the supplement.

do you mean sodium ascorbate? And by high what do you mean? The functional medicine doctor I saw wants to do vit c IVs but not sodium ascorbate.
I'm not really sure on the sodium ascorbate. I just remember a reference to high dose vitamin C depleting copper levels, and that sodium ascorbate is usually what you use for high dose vitamin C.

Yeah. Calcium.
Everyone. Here. Needs. More. Calcium.

eta: darn, calcifood has wheat germ. gluten is dd's biggest trigger. don't think I'm brave enough...

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#123 of 1021 Old 08-05-2009, 10:28 PM
 
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I'm not really sure on the sodium ascorbate. I just remember a reference to high dose vitamin C depleting copper levels, and that sodium ascorbate is usually what you use for high dose vitamin C.

Yeah. Calcium.
Everyone. Here. Needs. More. Calcium.
How high a dose of C? I take probably at least 20g/day.

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#124 of 1021 Old 08-05-2009, 10:39 PM
 
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How high a dose of C? I take probably at least 20g/day.
notes from Gropper:

copper is excreted primarily though the bile-- How's your cholesterol?

"High iron intake appears to interfere with copper mobilization from stores, copper use in the body, and copper absorption in infants and children."

"urinary copper excretion in humans has been shown to rise from 24 to 77mcg/day as molybdenum intake increased from 160-1540mcg/day" No changes in fecal copper excretion were noted, suggesting that molybdenum may have increased copper mobilization from tissues and promoted excretion"

Plus there's the usual high zinc stuff. For vit C, it's talking on the order of 1.5g, but it's mostly changing the serum concentration, possibly by reducing the ion. IOW, not necessarily mobilizing from stores?

So I take from all that - look at cholesterol (not too low), iron (not too much) and molybdenum (LOTS). Any thing jump out at you?

I'm not doing so well at keeping threads together lately...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
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#125 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If you had to take garlic for a serious chronic condition (giardia) and were suspicious of having candida and had 9 amalgam fillings, what steps would you take to protect your breastmilk?
Selenium, maybe some clay or zeolite. A bunch of vit C and salt water flushes, perhaps. What about water kefir. Many more beneficial microbials.

Here are some links for natural and alternative treatments for giardia.


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#126 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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AND A HUGE CONGRATS ON YOUR EXCITING NEWS!!!
Hey. What did I miss?


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#127 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Calcium does SO MUCH. I also don't trust greens for calcium, cause they're high in oxalates, and Ca binds to the oxalates, making them both harmless. So the Ca there doesn't count. I'd love to see a list of greens and their Caxalate ratios. I haven't ever looked it up though.

So yeah. Calcium. And magnesium.

:cop: calcium pusher
Hmmm....maybe I need calcium. I don't get enough, probably. Must drink more nettles and bone broth.

Calcium Oxalate Content of Selected Iguana Foods:
http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/cal_ox.html


Approximately 75% of all kidney stones are composed primarily of calcium oxalate, and hyperoxaluria is a primary risk factor for this disorder. Nine types of raw and cooked vegetables were analyzed for oxalate using an enzymatic method. There was a high proportion of water-soluble oxalate in most of the tested raw vegetables. Boiling markedly reduced soluble oxalate content by 30-87% and was more effective than steaming (5-53%) and baking (used only for potatoes, no oxalate loss).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

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#128 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 12:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I've come to believe that if a supplement makes you want to puke, well then, it is not doing to much for you.
I may make this my new sig line.


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#129 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 12:50 AM
 
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heee heee.
well if you do, please clean up my grammar

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#130 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 08:24 AM
 
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notes from Gropper:

copper is excreted primarily though the bile-- How's your cholesterol?

"High iron intake appears to interfere with copper mobilization from stores, copper use in the body, and copper absorption in infants and children."

"urinary copper excretion in humans has been shown to rise from 24 to 77mcg/day as molybdenum intake increased from 160-1540mcg/day" No changes in fecal copper excretion were noted, suggesting that molybdenum may have increased copper mobilization from tissues and promoted excretion"

Plus there's the usual high zinc stuff. For vit C, it's talking on the order of 1.5g, but it's mostly changing the serum concentration, possibly by reducing the ion. IOW, not necessarily mobilizing from stores?

So I take from all that - look at cholesterol (not too low), iron (not too much) and molybdenum (LOTS). Any thing jump out at you?

I'm not doing so well at keeping threads together lately...
My ferritin level was low. In range but at the low end. Functional medicine guy wants me to supplement.

My cholesterol is somewhat low. I think it was 174. In range but low. Not sure how to raise it. I have molybdenum but it looks like I should take more.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#131 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 09:09 AM
 
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I'm seeing a new md today. I'm feeling nervous.
X. Max. Max. Max. (toddler is with me).

I haventseen an md for a couple of years.

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#132 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 09:15 AM
 
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I'm seeing a new md today. I'm feeling nervous.
X. Max. Max. Max. (toddler is with me).

I haventseen an md for a couple of years.
::

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#133 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 09:33 AM
 
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I know that some starches are not the same as flours. Is that the case fo potato starch?

If so, does anyone know if this product would be closer to starch or flour?

Ener - g Pure Potato Starch Flour

http://www.ener-g.com/store/detail.a...&cat=10&id=111


I have a recipe that calls for starch & I don't have enough left to make all the cupcakes so I need a replacement. However, WF only carries flour & the other natural store carries the Ener G.

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#134 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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delete.

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#135 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 10:58 AM
 
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notes from Gropper:

copper is excreted primarily though the bile-- How's your cholesterol?

"High iron intake appears to interfere with copper mobilization from stores, copper use in the body, and copper absorption in infants and children."

"urinary copper excretion in humans has been shown to rise from 24 to 77mcg/day as molybdenum intake increased from 160-1540mcg/day" No changes in fecal copper excretion were noted, suggesting that molybdenum may have increased copper mobilization from tissues and promoted excretion"

Plus there's the usual high zinc stuff. For vit C, it's talking on the order of 1.5g, but it's mostly changing the serum concentration, possibly by reducing the ion. IOW, not necessarily mobilizing from stores?

So I take from all that - look at cholesterol (not too low), iron (not too much) and molybdenum (LOTS). Any thing jump out at you?
I have low cholesterol (169) was high (220-230) from age 21 (when first tested) until 2 years ago (started taking fish oil). My iron has always been fine except after 1 of the kid's births (I think the first one). My vit C bowel tolerance is super low (one dose).

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Approximately 75% of all kidney stones are composed primarily of calcium oxalate, and hyperoxaluria is a primary risk factor for this disorder. Nine types of raw and cooked vegetables were analyzed for oxalate using an enzymatic method. There was a high proportion of water-soluble oxalate in most of the tested raw vegetables. Boiling markedly reduced soluble oxalate content by 30-87% and was more effective than steaming (5-53%) and baking (used only for potatoes, no oxalate loss).
My father has had many horrible kidney stones. My brother started getting them 2 years ago (he's a huge milk drinker and lots of bowel problems but won't listen to me about anything). And I had gallstones and got my gallbladder out, and so did my grandmother. So maybe me avoiding calcium is a good thing. And my blood calcium is always fine so I'm going to assume that calcium is okay for me.

I want peanut butter cookies for breakfast.

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#136 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 11:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by deditus
If you had to take garlic for a serious chronic condition (giardia) and were suspicious of having candida and had 9 amalgam fillings, what steps would you take to protect your breastmilk?

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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Selenium, maybe some clay or zeolite. A bunch of vit C and salt water flushes, perhaps. What about water kefir. Many more beneficial microbials.

Pat
Pat - Please may I ask you about zeolite and nursing. I was looking at taking it, as I am concerned about detoxing mercury from my amalgams into my breastmilk, but was advised against it. I am taking supplements as mentioned in the iodine thread, and would like to start iodine. My original thinking was to take zeolite to help remove mercury and avoid it detoxing into my milk, but was told it wouldn't work that way. I am almost certain I have issues with intestinal candida. I have been having some minor detox symptoms since I started eating healthier and taking supps, but nothing major.

ANNIE - Crunchy WAHM to 2 boys & baby girl born 12July08 ~From contentment with little comes happiness â African Proverb
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#137 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Pat - Please may I ask you about zeolite and nursing. I was looking at taking it, as I am concerned about detoxing mercury from my amalgams into my breastmilk, but was advised against it. I am taking supplements as mentioned in the iodine thread, and would like to start iodine. My original thinking was to take zeolite to help remove mercury and avoid it detoxing into my milk, but was told it wouldn't work that way. I am almost certain I have issues with intestinal candida. I have been having some minor detox symptoms since I started eating healthier and taking supps, but nothing major.
I haven't tried zeolite. I've read a bit because PB mentioned it. From what I understand, it is probably safe. I'm not clear on how it 'captures' and binds mercury. But, it is a natural product mined from the earth, processed in an artificial manner to remove naturally occurring heavy metals and toxins. There are synthetic versions also, which are 'purer', theoretically.

My concern, assuming it works, is that it binds other + ions, such Na+, Ca+, Mg+, K+. Removing these from our blood, doesn't sound like a beneficial idea, even temporarily. Taking the zeolite separately from food and supplements is recommended. However, we ALWAYS need Na, Ca, Mg and K circulating in our body. So,

Also, it isn't being consumed in its natural form, so that weights me to skip it.

My efforts have been to rebalance my body with whole foods, which have been consumed and processed in natural forms by our ancestors, for eons. I understand the heavy toxin loads and nutrient deficiencies of our SAD. I just trust Mother Nature, more than Science. jmmv

An old post with more zeolite links and info: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d#post14115387

Regarding detoxing current mercury fillings, my goal has been to optimize my detox pathways so that there is less 'excess' toxins being stored. As a nursing mom, I'm not sure if eliminating old stores of toxins is timely. With a bunch of mercury fillings, eliminating candida pushes one over to dumping toxins to baby. Of course, we could help baby detox with optimized nutrients. It is a balancing game, based upon toxin loads and priorities and symptom management. Only you are the best judge of what feels right for your body. Listen to it, not me.


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#138 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:04 PM
 
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I have low cholesterol (169) was high (220-230) from age 21 (when first tested) until 2 years ago (started taking fish oil). My iron has always been fine except after 1 of the kid's births (I think the first one). My vit C bowel tolerance is super low (one dose).



My father has had many horrible kidney stones. My brother started getting them 2 years ago (he's a huge milk drinker and lots of bowel problems but won't listen to me about anything). And I had gallstones and got my gallbladder out, and so did my grandmother. So maybe me avoiding calcium is a good thing. And my blood calcium is always fine so I'm going to assume that calcium is okay for me.

I want peanut butter cookies for breakfast.
Blood calcium is tightly regulated by your hormones/bones, so really has nothing to do with intake. If your intake is low, then you activate more vit D so that you can absorb it better. When you have activated vitamin D floating around your body, it opens up the calcium ion channels on your cells. If those are too open, you open the door to fat storage (weight gain), insulin release (high insulin levels, insulin regulates it's own collection of stuff), and redirection of a bunch of nutrients (like cysteine) so that they're not available for detox. I don't remember the physiology exactly, but there's good reason to think that having calcium deposits/growths in the wrong places is a sign of needing *more* calcium.

Calcium is important. Get more.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
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#139 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been wondering for a while, is the folate vs folinate/folic acid issue only a problem for the 677C->T people? I've been reading the descriptions of the 1298A->C people as needing more, but at a later step--they can turn folic acid into active folate, can't they, but they just need a lot more incoming so their slow A->C conversion has enough to grab to recycle BH4? Am I reading the whole thing wrong?

And on another note, I've never really paid enough attention to this, but presumably different health problems are more associated with the double C->T gene vs the double A->C gene? Since the slowdown is in different parts of the cycle? Low methyl groups and the like are more an issue with the 677C->T genes, aren't they?

Sorry to throw this into the middle of chat, it's been churning around in the back of my mind for a while, but hasn't really percolated up to the top til I realized that DH's grandfather and aunt both had early strokes. And someone posted the Thorne article about the prevalence of MTHFR gene mutations in the Mexican-American community. And the funniest thing is, I just re-read it, and the study isn't saying that this gene is more common in the Mexican-American community, that's just who they happened to look at. But it caught my eye anyway.
Ok, I tried to wrap my head around this last night and thought I was just tired. Today, my head still feels reading it. I swear, I want to understand this MTHFR and folate variations. But, :.

We need a forum called, "What Nutrient Do I Need?".


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#140 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't know what to blame/credit the most - pregnancy brain, crazy fatigue, dd being crazy more often than not, finally upping my folate to where it should be... In any case, my interest suddenly isn't in looking this stuff up nearly so much. I'm taking it as a sign of healing, but yeah. The energy behind learning this stuff is dwindling I still find it totally fascinating, but the energy is dissipating... I'm just at a different point in my life, I guess.
Just stop whatever supp is doing this then, as we need your brain energy in high gear.


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#141 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's me. Ok. I admit it. I have a problem (ok, I have many). I have HIGH lead. I ALSO have HIGH copper. So what are you going to do about it? huh?



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#142 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:35 PM
 
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Blood calcium is tightly regulated by your hormones/bones, so really has nothing to do with intake. If your intake is low, then you activate more vit D so that you can absorb it better. When you have activated vitamin D floating around your body, it opens up the calcium ion channels on your cells. If those are too open, you open the door to fat storage (weight gain), insulin release (high insulin levels, insulin regulates it's own collection of stuff), and redirection of a bunch of nutrients (like cysteine) so that they're not available for detox. I don't remember the physiology exactly, but there's good reason to think that having calcium deposits/growths in the wrong places is a sign of needing *more* calcium.

Calcium is important. Get more.
Maybe that's why I was low D? I don't have weight gain or high insulin levels. My progesterone was high, but no other hormones (cortisol and a couple others were low). Just not sure how to get more calcium. I can only drink so much broth... We're having salmon tonight. That'll be good. I just need to figure out more on a daily basis.

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We need a forum called, "What Nutrient Do I Need?".
In a game show format, with a big wheel that you turn...

Now I'm off to paint something.... door... wall... something.

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#143 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Blood calcium is tightly regulated by your hormones/bones, so really has nothing to do with intake. If your intake is low, then you activate more vit D so that you can absorb it better. When you have activated vitamin D floating around your body, it opens up the calcium ion channels on your cells. If those are too open, you open the door to fat storage (weight gain), insulin release (high insulin levels, insulin regulates it's own collection of stuff), and redirection of a bunch of nutrients (like cysteine) so that they're not available for detox. I don't remember the physiology exactly, but there's good reason to think that having calcium deposits/growths in the wrong places is a sign of needing *more* calcium.

Calcium is important. Get more.
Your explanation is brilliant. I couldn't have read all day and understood it as well. :


Food Sources
Excellent sources of calcium include spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens and collard greens.



Very good sources of calcium include blackstrap molasses, Swiss chard, yogurt, kale, mozzarella cheese, cow's milk, and goat's milk. Basil, thyme, dill seed, cinnamon, and peppermint leaves are also very good sources of calcium.



Good sources of calcium include romaine lettuce, celery, broccoli, sesame seeds, fennel, cabbage, summer squash, green beans, garlic, tofu, Brussel sprouts, oranges, asparagus and crimini mushrooms. Oregano, rosemary, parsley, kombu, and kelp are also good sources of calcium.

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=45


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#144 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:49 PM
 
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Food Sources
Excellent sources of calcium include spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens and collard greens.
But above, someone said that the calcium in greens wasn't absorbed right. That's the one I've been getting a lot of this summer with rainbow swiss chard out of my mother's garden.

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Good sources of calcium include romaine lettuce, celery, broccoli, sesame seeds, fennel, cabbage, summer squash, green beans, garlic, tofu, Brussel sprouts, oranges, asparagus and crimini mushrooms. Oregano, rosemary, parsley, kombu, and kelp are also good sources of calcium.
I've actually been eating a lot of salad this summer (with pine nuts of course). And we eat a lot of broccoli, some asparagus and brussel sprouts. I guess I need more sushi!!

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#145 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 01:59 PM
 
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Just stop whatever supp is doing this then, as we need your brain energy in high gear.


Pat
What, you want this kid to have midline defects? :
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Maybe that's why I was low D? I don't have weight gain or high insulin levels. My progesterone was high, but no other hormones (cortisol and a couple others were low). Just not sure how to get more calcium. I can only drink so much broth... We're having salmon tonight. That'll be good. I just need to figure out more on a daily basis.
Yeah, I have an (unresearched) theory that all of our low D has at least something to do with low calcium using it up and low magnesium preventing proper use (or however magnesium interacts with it).

We do broth in as much as we can - soup, gravy, grains, oatmeal in the morning (hides pretty well). For salmon, where's the data on that? Cause I know canned fish is supposed to be a really good source, but most of that is that the bones get soft and you're eating them too. I wonder if fresh salmon is a significant source?

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Your explanation is brilliant. I couldn't have read all day and understood it as well. :

Food Sources
Excellent sources of calcium include spinach, turnip greens, mustard greens and collard greens.

Very good sources of calcium include blackstrap molasses, Swiss chard, yogurt, kale, mozzarella cheese, cow's milk, and goat's milk. Basil, thyme, dill seed, cinnamon, and peppermint leaves are also very good sources of calcium.
Yeah, it took at least a week of reading, plus a few months of floating around in my head to understand that about calcium. Back when I wasn't getting enough folate...

So who's going to make a table of oxalates and calcium content of veggies? Cause I'm happy with my bone broth...

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#146 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So who's going to make a table of oxalates and calcium content of veggies? Cause I'm happy with my bone broth...
Calcium Oxalate Content of Selected Iguana Foods:
http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/cal_ox.html


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#147 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I have an (unresearched) theory that all of our low D has at least something to do with low calcium using it up and low magnesium preventing proper use (or however magnesium interacts with it).

We do broth in as much as we can - soup, gravy, grains, oatmeal in the morning (hides pretty well).
I wonder, though, evolutionarily, did we consume 2-4 cups of animal milk as adults... or is the calcium in plants more bio-available... and it is just our low stomach acid which makes less absorbed?

Maybe our fats had more vit D too.

High calcium intake makes low mag blood levels, iirc. (and brittle bones)

The vit D and calcium have to do with proper pituitary function, iirc. (or was it parathyroid gland???) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...beccc5aee788c9


In rats:

Quote:
Vitamin D regulates both intestinal calcium and phosphorus absorption to produce normal serum calcium and phosphorus levels (16http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ). In the absence of vitamin D, passive intestinal absorption of calcium and phosphorus can occur in the presence of high dietary levels (16http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ). Previously published research indicates that to normalize serum calcium and phosphorus levels of vitamin D–deficient rats, 20% lactose is required (17http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gifhttp://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ); a high calcium and high phosphorus diet alone is not sufficient. ,18Lactose has been shown to increase calcium and phosphorus absorption in the ileum section of the small intestine; however, the exact mechanism is unclear (19http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ,20http://jn.nutrition.org/icons/ref-arrow.gif ).

Regardless of the role of lactose in intestinal absorption, our data certainly show that normal serum calcium and phosphorus levels result in normal reproduction in the absence of vitamin D. The absence of vitamin D in these rats was verified by measurement of the blood form of vitamin D, i.e., 25-OH-D3. Clearly, lactose itself has no direct effect on reproduction because vitamin D-replete rats have identical reproductive values as the lactose-fed rats.
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/8/2270


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#148 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 02:33 PM
 
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Calcium Oxalate Content of Selected Iguana Foods:
http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/cal_ox.html


Pat
Cool, I didn't actually click on the link before! I know that the USDA also has some oxalate data if you poke around here:
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display...ax_subject=279
might help round out the list?

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#149 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 02:37 PM
 
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Not on the current topic, but on the topic of FitDay (again... I'm not obsessing, really, I'm not... okay, I am... maybe)...
I'm planning to put every day of our meal plan into it to see what nutrients we're "short" on for that day in order to correct that with our snacks. This has me putting nearly all of our food in as "custom food" because I want to make sure that I'm getting a correct assessment of our nutrients. A real PITA.
The upside, however, is that it's making me actually write down "recipes" that I normally just throw together. So that's kind of cool and will be useful in my other project of making a Master Grocery List for each week of the meal plan.

ETA: Have I mentioned lately that I my remedy? The more organized I get, the less stressed I feel and the easier it is to get even more organized. :

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#150 of 1021 Old 08-06-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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Cool, I didn't actually click on the link before! I know that the USDA also has some oxalate data if you poke around here:
http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display...ax_subject=279
might help round out the list?

ah ha!


and individual nutrients, incl calcium:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=17477

eta: look what you made me do...
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...YRDVGMWc&hl=en
kale, turnip greens and garlic win; beet greens, amaranth and spinach lose. Cilantro beats out parsley by a mile.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
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