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Old 08-04-2009, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Vitamin B9, usually called folic acid, has long been known to reduce the risk of spinal birth defects. It is also necessary for healthy red blood cells. Now, in what is believed to be the first study of its kind in humans, scientists at Johns Hopkins Children's Center have found it may also be an effective way to suppress allergic reactions. The vitamin appears to lessen the severity of asthma symptoms, too. The findings were just published in the online edition of the Journal of Allergy & Clinical Immunology.

The Johns Hopkins researchers looked at the connection between blood levels of folate (the naturally occurring form of folic acid) and allergies. They reviewed the medical records of more than 8,000 people between the ages of 2 and 85 and tracked the effect of folate levels on respiratory and allergic symptoms. The research team also examined levels of IgE antibodies (immune system markers that rise in response to an allergen) in the research subjects' blood.

The results? Those who had higher blood levels of folate had fewer IgE antibodies. What's more, they had fewer reported allergies, less wheezing and were less likely to have asthma.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026225_fo...allergies.html


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Old 08-04-2009, 10:10 PM
 
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Gah.
Folate! You are the bane of my existence.

Pat
Thanks for keeping us so well informed.

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Old 08-05-2009, 12:10 AM
 
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Interesting, thank you!
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:37 PM
 
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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Hot damn.

THere is a TON of collective knowledge and researching in this forum. I wish I could bottle it somehow...

(The findings bug me, though, because I thought I was pretty good with folate in my pregnancy and breastfeeding. Maybe I have the genetic defect? But we don't seem to have any midline issues...)

DS, 10/07. Allergies: peanut, egg, wheat. We've added dairy back in. And taken it back out again. It causes sandpaper skin with itchy patches and thrashing during sleep. Due w/ #2 late April, 2012.

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Old 08-05-2009, 05:17 PM
 
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Hot damn.

THere is a TON of collective knowledge and researching in this forum. I wish I could bottle it somehow...

(The findings bug me, though, because I thought I was pretty good with folate in my pregnancy and breastfeeding. Maybe I have the genetic defect? But we don't seem to have any midline issues...)
Just because there are no obvious midline issues doesn't mean a MTHFR mutation isn't present... My opinion anyway.

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Old 08-05-2009, 06:13 PM
 
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People with a backload of things to methylate would need more folate than most, right now I'm taking 1200mcg and I don't have the MTHFR gene. So if they only consumed as much as typical people (how much do most people consume? I think it's less than 400mcg, which is why refined grain products are usually fortified with folic acid, not folate), then they'd have less circulating in their blood because it was being used up more quickly. So personal health history fits in too, though of course that can be hard to piece together precisely.

In terms of family history, we need to make a good list of the types of health problems that are sometimes associated. Early strokes was one thing, high homocysteine too, I think I've read of breast cancer and migraines also being associated. I'll try to find links during naptime.

And of course Shannon's page is helpful....
http://www.detoxpuzzle.com/folate.php
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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(The findings bug me, though, because I thought I was pretty good with folate in my pregnancy and breastfeeding. Maybe I have the genetic defect? But we don't seem to have any midline issues...)
I've read that 44-51% (not sure how those numbers were derived) of North Americans have at least one of the MTHFR gene variations. That means about 25% of all children are homogeneous (receive the polymorphism gene from both parents) with the MTHFR gene. http://genetics.emory.edu/ask/questi...lear_Diagnosis

Folic acid isn't enough, for those with the MTHFR gene, unless high levels are supplemented. Food folate is more bio-available than the multi-vitamin version. FIVE servings of folate a day. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=63

Here is an excellent explanation about MTHFR and pregnancy: http://lifebalanceinfertilitycoach.w...f-miscarriage/

There are many issues associated with the MTHFR genetic variation: breast, lung, esophagus, pancreatic, liver, colon, ovarian cancers. In addition to psychiatric issues such as bipolar, schizophrenia, anxiety and depression, due to neurotransmitter disruption, from my reading. And heart disease, strokes, blood-clotting and repeated miscarriages. Autism and OCD seem to be not related, from most studies I've seen.

ETA: we have about all of those in our family!

P.S.
Drug-Nutrient Interactions
What medications affect folate?
Medications that can help deplete the body's supply of folate include: anticancer drugs like methotrexate; cholesterol-lowering drugs like cholestyramine; anti-inflammatory drugs like sulfasalazine; biguanide drugs like buformin, phenformin, or metformin used in the treatment of diabetes; birth control pills (oral contraceptives); potassium-sparing diuretics like triamterene; and antibiotics like trimethoprim or pyrimethamine. While the anti-convulsant drug phenytoin (sold under the brand name of Dilantin or Phenytek) remains somewhat controversial in terms of its impact on folate, several animal studies have shown a lowering of the liver's ability to make polyglutamyl forms of this vitamin following adminstration of phenytoin.


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Old 08-05-2009, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Btw, I forgot, also early dementia.

Folate may play a role in the prevention and/or treatment of the following health conditions:
  • Alcoholism
  • Anemias (especially macrocytic anemia)
  • Atherosclerosis
  • Cervical dysplasia
  • Cervical tumors
  • Cleft palate or cleft lip
  • Crohn's disease
  • Depression
  • Diarrhea
  • Gingivitis
  • Glossitis
  • Glycogen storage disease type I
  • Hyperhomocysteinemia
  • Inflammatory bowel disease
  • Insomnia
  • Myelopathy
  • Neural tube defects
  • Non-senile dementia
  • Ovarian tumors
  • Periodontal disease
  • Restless leg syndrome
  • Schizophrenia
  • Seborrheic dermatitis
  • Tropical sprue
  • Uterine tumors

What foods provide folate?
Excellent sources of folate include romaine lettuce, spinach, asparagus, turnip greens, mustard greens, calf's liver, parsley, collard greens, broccoli, cauliflower, beets, and lentils.

Very good sources include squash, black beans, pinto beans, garbanzo beans, papaya and string beans.



http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...trient&dbid=63




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Old 08-05-2009, 09:21 PM
 
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Autism and OCD seem to be not related, from most studies I've seen.
I haven't seen any evidence linking autism and MTHFR variations, but I do know often autistic kids have methylation issues. As Tanya says above, folate decreases the pressure on methylation, freeing it up to do other things. And I think DS has benefitted from me switching from folic acid to folate (and eating tons of greens the last few months, it's CSA season!). Is there any reason NOT to take folate instead of folic acid? Obviously matters more for some people than others, but is there any downside? It seems to me that anyone with any kinds of health issues might just as well take folate "just in case" it matters for them. For example, I think *I* do fine with folic acid, but I think DS does better with folate, and I wonder if that might have made a difference for him in utero (not guilting myself here, just wondering if this is good preventative stuff for pg mamas).

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Old 08-05-2009, 09:56 PM
 
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I'm bringing these comments over from Chat since they're more on-topic here.

It started by whoMe asking exactly what type of folate is in the Perque LifeGuard, and it's folinate.

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Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Cool, thanks! Folinate bypasses a bunch of the enzymes folic acid uses, but not MTHFR. So slightly better, but not much different than folic acid for someone like me.
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Originally Posted by TanyaLopez View Post
I've been wondering for a while, is the folate vs folinate/folic acid issue only a problem for the 677C->T people? I've been reading the descriptions of the 1298A->C people as needing more, but at a later step--they can turn folic acid into active folate, can't they, but they just need a lot more incoming so their slow A->C conversion has enough to grab to recycle BH4? Am I reading the whole thing wrong?

And on another note, I've never really paid enough attention to this, but presumably different health problems are more associated with the double C->T gene vs the double A->C gene? Since the slowdown is in different parts of the cycle? Low methyl groups and the like are more an issue with the 677C->T genes, aren't they?

Sorry to throw this into the middle of chat, it's been churning around in the back of my mind for a while, but hasn't really percolated up to the top til I realized that DH's grandfather and aunt both had early strokes. And someone posted the Thorne article about the prevalence of MTHFR gene mutations in the Mexican-American community. And the funniest thing is, I just re-read it, and the study isn't saying that this gene is more common in the Mexican-American community, that's just who they happened to look at. But it caught my eye anyway.
And as for the autism-MTHFR issue, I don't think they're completely overlapping, but for people with ASD issues that are detoxification related (whether metals or whatever Lyme and other chronic infections do to people or other health causes), if those people also happen to have a couple of the MTHFR gene mutations, then their methylation will struggle more than otherwise. Plenty of people can have some of the MTHFR gene mutations but can detoxify other stuff well, and so not have issues like me, or have general detoxification issues like my family but not be doubly-slow by also having the MTHFR slow methylation genes.

I think folate is fine for everyone, it's a matter of how much. Someone dug up a study a while back, and I wish I remembered dosages, that they over-supplemented several of the methylation nutrients in some animal (pregnant mice?) and it was detrimental, health-wise, to the babies. But I don't know if the dosages were at all reasonable.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:10 PM
 
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It started by whoMe asking exactly what type of folate is in the Perque LifeGuard, and it's folinate.
Seriously ????

My bottle says folate, that's what I thought I was getting!

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Old 08-06-2009, 12:18 AM
 
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(The findings bug me, though, because I thought I was pretty good with folate in my pregnancy and breastfeeding. Maybe I have the genetic defect? But we don't seem to have any midline issues...)
We don't have *any* obvious midline stuff. On VERY close inspection, dd and I each have a mild tongue tie, but we both nursed 2+ years without issue. My mom complained of painful nipples for the first month, me for the first week. Dd has the V shaped teeth.

eta: but obviously, we've got the MTHFR polymorphisms (everyone has the gene, roughly half the population will have trouble with the conversion, and having the polymorphisms is protective against some things like cancer, *if* you're good on folate. just to clear that up ). In my family, I think it's showing up more in mood stuff (depression/anxiety/shyness, and intense focus/low dopamine) than physical stuff. Dh supposedly has the same polymorphisms as me. In his family, it's more seasonal allergies, and a different breed of anxiety. Still no structural stuff though.

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I haven't seen any evidence linking autism and MTHFR variations, but I do know often autistic kids have methylation issues. As Tanya says above, folate decreases the pressure on methylation, freeing it up to do other things. And I think DS has benefitted from me switching from folic acid to folate (and eating tons of greens the last few months, it's CSA season!). Is there any reason NOT to take folate instead of folic acid? Obviously matters more for some people than others, but is there any downside? It seems to me that anyone with any kinds of health issues might just as well take folate "just in case" it matters for them. For example, I think *I* do fine with folic acid, but I think DS does better with folate, and I wonder if that might have made a difference for him in utero (not guilting myself here, just wondering if this is good preventative stuff for pg mamas).
Yasko is the one to look at first there, but I'm not sure if she's actually done a study or published anything.

Methyl folate might be strong stuff, so some might want to take it slow, and it requires B12 for absorption - so if you're low on B12/stomach acid, then folic acid might be better until you get that corrected.

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I think folate is fine for everyone, it's a matter of how much. Someone dug up a study a while back, and I wish I remembered dosages, that they over-supplemented several of the methylation nutrients in some animal (pregnant mice?) and it was detrimental, health-wise, to the babies. But I don't know if the dosages were at all reasonable.
There's a study somewhere about overmethylation due to too much folate causing asthma and associated issues. It had something to do with turning off the gene that turns off asthma, I think. And I *thought* it was humans...

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Old 08-06-2009, 01:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Is there any reason NOT to take folate instead of folic acid? Obviously matters more for some people than others, but is there any downside? It seems to me that anyone with any kinds of health issues might just as well take folate "just in case" it matters for them. For example, I think *I* do fine with folic acid, but I think DS does better with folate, and I wonder if that might have made a difference for him in utero (not guilting myself here, just wondering if this is good preventative stuff for pg mamas).
I'm a card carrying member of the Folate Fan Club.

There is an 'upper limit' for folic acid supplementation, I read 1000mcg. Except for dh's high homocysteine they prescribed 4mg, iirc.


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Old 08-06-2009, 01:24 AM
 
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Seriously ????

My bottle says folate, that's what I thought I was getting!
whoMe says it's a kind of folate (back in Chat), even a kind that's in food.
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Old 08-06-2009, 01:37 AM
 
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whoMe says it's a kind of folate (back in Chat), even a kind that's in food.
Yeah. Iirc, naturally occurring folate comes as either methyl folate, or folinic acid. They can be converted between each other, but that process uses the MTHFR enzyme. Folic acid can be converted to both, but the process requires a whole different list of enzymes, some of which may have another set of issues I know nothing about. So yeah, if you're trying to bypass MTHFR, it's all about food and 5-MTHF, and folinic doesn't really make a difference.

Now I'm curious about the different ratios of folate/folinic in different foods. There's a trail I was meaning to chase, but never did - that 'animal forms' of folate are more heat stable than 'plant forms.' I wonder now if that has to do with folate and folinic. And which has more of which. But I'm not going to go look it up Someone else can!

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Old 08-06-2009, 01:46 AM
 
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We don't have *any* obvious midline stuff. On VERY close inspection, dd and I each have a mild tongue tie, but we both nursed 2+ years without issue. My mom complained of painful nipples for the first month, me for the first week. Dd has the V shaped teeth.
I FORGOT about DS's V-teeth on the bottom. Exactly like your daughter's. And the first 2 weeks of nursing was very painful.


Quote:
eta: but obviously, we've got the MTHFR polymorphisms (everyone has the gene, roughly half the population will have trouble with the conversion, and having the polymorphisms is protective against some things like cancer, *if* you're good on folate. just to clear that up ). In my family, I think it's showing up more in mood stuff (depression/anxiety/shyness, and intense focus/low dopamine) than physical stuff. Dh supposedly has the same polymorphisms as me. In his family, it's more seasonal allergies, and a different breed of anxiety. Still no structural stuff though.
mild-moderate depression and some shyness/anxiety in me. (varies a lot though, so I wouldn't think it was a sign of anything) Seasonal allergies in DH, but he's not from North America.


Quote:


There's a study somewhere about overmethylation due to too much folate causing asthma and associated issues. It had something to do with turning off the gene that turns off asthma, I think. And I *thought* it was humans...

So much to research and think about.

DS has gone 2 nights without needing his nebulizer. We've been using it nightly for almost 2 months. I started myself on Bioallers last week. I think I"ll post that to the chat thread.

DS, 10/07. Allergies: peanut, egg, wheat. We've added dairy back in. And taken it back out again. It causes sandpaper skin with itchy patches and thrashing during sleep. Due w/ #2 late April, 2012.

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Old 08-06-2009, 01:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, look at this explanation and product related to topical Folinic Acid. This is such a comprehensive and well articulated description of the folate issue.
http://www.healingedge.net/store/product1820.html


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Old 08-06-2009, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Everything you ever wanted to know about Folate...and more. http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Folic_acid


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Old 08-09-2009, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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More info about folate and genetic variations, exploring the link between micronutrients and health, investigating how enzyme cofactors like vitamins and minerals fix defective enzymes: http://curezone.us/forums/fm.asp?i=1186709#i

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Old 08-09-2009, 01:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Yasko is the one to look at first there, but I'm not sure if she's actually done a study or published anything.

Methyl folate might be strong stuff, so some might want to take it slow, and it requires B12 for absorption - so if you're low on B12/stomach acid, then folic acid might be better until you get that corrected.

There's a study somewhere about overmethylation due to too much folate causing asthma and associated issues. It had something to do with turning off the gene that turns off asthma, I think. And I *thought* it was humans...
I don't think I could overmethylate DS if I tried, but I plan to take it slow. B12, folate, and TMG (all methylation supps) are the recommended course of action to "chelate" his high antimony (I use quotes, because I think in this case they are just supporting the body's own natural chelation). So it has pushed methylation back onto the front burner for me. I got a sublingual B12 - he's still going to swallow most of it though. I think his stomach acid is doing better though - his poops are WAY different - dark brown and no food bits. My Thorne folate is is the mail. I'll add it slowly, thanks for that reminder.

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I'm a card carrying member of the Folate Fan Club.

There is an 'upper limit' for folic acid supplementation, I read 1000mcg. Except for dh's high homocysteine they prescribed 4mg, iirc.

Pat
The "chelation" protocol calls for 10mcg/lb of kid, spread out in 3-4 doses over the day. So that sounded pretty reasonable to me.

And after our kefir miracle, I'm taking a very close look at anything you are a fan of .

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whoMe says it's a kind of folate (back in Chat), even a kind that's in food.
Yeah, but I thought I was getting folate!!! Anyhow, a naturally occurring form always seems like the smarter supp to me. I'm working on the assumption that anything that requires "conversion" by DS' enzymes is prone to not getting used very well...

I ordered some Thorne folate powder though - I want to start getting some of his own stuff into DS where I can, instead of assuming he will nurse forever.

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Old 11-09-2009, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey CS, could more folate help your daughter?


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Old 11-09-2009, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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All of these diseases are associated with folate deficiency and the MTHFR gene:

Downs syndrome, blood clots, cardiovascular disease, chronic fatigue, IBS, anxiety, fibromyalgia, depression, migraines, strokes, homocysteine, dementia, schizophrenia, nerve pain, Parkinson, miscarriage, infertility, Alzheimers, non-Hodkins lymphoma, gastric cancer, kidney failure, addiction, alcoholicsm, obesity, heavy metals, diabetes, Leiden Factor V, OCD, bipolar, aggression, liver dsyfunction, renal dysfunction, pulmorary fibrosis, autism, breast cancer, colorectal cancer, adenoma, endometrial cancer, lung cancer, spina bifida, neural tube defects, preeclampsia, placental abruption, hypothyroid, psoriasis, etc.



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Old 11-26-2009, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Liver is HIGH in folate.

For our "giblet gravy", I pureed the liver in broth in the blender. Totally invisible liver, no bits, no weird stuff to bite into, no bites of LIVER flavor to happen upon. Just pureed liver broth to add to the gravy. I'm going to do this weekly.


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Old 11-26-2009, 01:41 PM
 
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Liver is HIGH in folate.

For our "giblet gravy", I pureed the liver in broth in the blender. Totally invisible liver, no bits, no weird stuff to bite into, no bites of LIVER flavor to happen upon. Just pureed liver broth to add to the gravy. I'm going to do this weekly.


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What a great idea. Now if I could only figure out which one was the liver that I took out of the turkey....

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Old 11-26-2009, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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What a great idea. Now if I could only figure out which one was the liver that I took out of the turkey....
Soft, squishy dark red, sorta flat and lobe shaped is the liver. The prune-sized thing is the heart (soft). The hard thing that is connected to another hard thing is the gizzard, I believe.


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Old 11-26-2009, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
I haven't seen any evidence linking autism and MTHFR variations, but I do know often autistic kids have methylation issues.
Found these studies related to MTHFR polymorphism and autism.

http://www.jpands.org/vol9no4/boris.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19455642
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/584398_7
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...95065/abstract





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Old 11-26-2009, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mamafish9
I ordered some Thorne folate powder though - I want to start getting some of his own stuff into DS where I can, instead of assuming he will nurse forever.
Do you have a link? Or is the capsule able to be opened and pour out the folate powder? I want to get more into ds.


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Old 11-26-2009, 04:34 PM
 
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Liver is HIGH in folate.

For our "giblet gravy", I pureed the liver in broth in the blender. Totally invisible liver, no bits, no weird stuff to bite into, no bites of LIVER flavor to happen upon. Just pureed liver broth to add to the gravy. I'm going to do this weekly.
My grandmother always did this on Thanksgiving--she actually would simmer the neck, liver, heart (and whatever else is there?) for over an hour, then take out the neck, dice up the rest very fine (blender is even better) and add it all to the pan drippings to make a really yummy gravy! I never knew...Totally need to try this regularly!

Lauren, wife to my dear and mama to amazing River
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:55 AM
 
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