Mama's detox pathway issues FX on nurslings detox issues? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 12 Old 01-09-2010, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, I'm looking into the sulfation pathway as a place to work on in my ds, but am realizing this same pathway is an issue for me. (My nettles headaches ring a bell, and all the high sulfer foods are huge in both of our diets--like we are seeking them out.) I don't know enough about it all still, continuing to learn by reading through the archives here...

But I'm wondering, can mama's detox pathway issues cause the same detox pathway issues/blocks in her nursling? I mean, it makes sense if I was deficient in nutrients needed to support a specific pathway that my ds would be as well b/c he didn't get them from me in utero or from nursing...Are my son's seeming sulfation issues related to mine? Are they impacted by my nursing him? (If I weren't nursing, would they be better naturally?) I'm just interested in this--not considering weaning, but just trying to figure out how all this stuff works together/is related. (And thinking about how I should be supping myself in certain ways w/ certain nutrients if this is the case...)

Any info or thoughts on this appreciated!

Lauren, wife to my dear and mama to amazing River
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#2 of 12 Old 01-09-2010, 07:54 PM
 
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I think genetics play a role (e.g. you could both have a high need for sulphur foods from your genetic makeup), and you can definitely pass deficiencies to your nursling. The good news is, you can also pass a lot of nutrients to address deficiencies.

In our case, I'm not deficient, and I don't have sulfation pathway issues - but my DS couldn't get enough of certain nutrients from nursing (I am not at all magnesium or zinc deficient, but he ended up very deficient in both - he needs more than what he can get from nursing).

For sulfation, you'd want to supp mag, molybdenum, and b6. B6 passes really well through nursing, so you can just take lots of that. mag and mo you'd want to get directly into him, minerals don't pass so well (a basic level passes, and making sure you're not deficient so you're passing that basic level is good, but the amounts needed to address deficiencies seem to work best given direct).

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#3 of 12 Old 01-09-2010, 08:33 PM
 
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My understanding is that baby gets primacy for nutrients over the mama. I believe that after a long duration of nutrient deficiency, it could become an issue for baby.

Genetics could play a role in the extra/special needs for specific nutrients for detoxification, such as 5-mthf.

But, I don't think it necessarily follows that baby has the same detox issues as mama. But, perhaps, it does that mama has the same detox issues as baby. The baby is the canary in the coal mine, his reactions are the clue to your intolerances.


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#4 of 12 Old 01-09-2010, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
For sulfation, you'd want to supp mag, molybdenum, and b6. B6 passes really well through nursing, so you can just take lots of that. mag and mo you'd want to get directly into him, minerals don't pass so well (a basic level passes, and making sure you're not deficient so you're passing that basic level is good, but the amounts needed to address deficiencies seem to work best given direct).
Fabulous to know. When I recently ordered the mag/zinc cream, I also ordered mo drops (you recommended them in another thread) so I'm really excited about that. The B6 was what I was wondering about--awesome that I can take it and he'll get it. (YAY!) I might just take them *all* in some form or another (I already do natural calm for me for mag), as this seems to be an issue for me too. I'm *really* excited about all this--I think it is the right next step for us...

Thank you both so much! I do feel so much better avoiding *his* intolerances in general, although I haven't had an immediate reaction that I'm aware of when ingesting them.

Lauren, wife to my dear and mama to amazing River
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#5 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 09:46 AM
 
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When I was nursing my dd, she would manifest symptoms I was having but on a larger scale. Saying this, it is very important to work things out for yourself because what is effecting you is worse for your nursling and IMO can cause long term issues if not worked out.

My question about giving the minerals directly to the nursling is what if the babe is 5 month old? Would you give it then?

And is there anything specific to look into for a b-6? I am needing that for sulfation pathways too.
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#6 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And is there anything specific to look into for a b-6? I am needing that for sulfation pathways too.
I would love info on how much b6 to try. I've read b/4 (by mamafish) that the bs work together, so a complex is good. I started taking one (on top of doing some chicken liver multiple times a week now ) that has 50 mg b6--is this not enough? Should I add additional b6 to my diet?

And how much would recommend supping if I could get it directly into my nursling? (I realize all doses would probably be starter and need to be adjusted as needed dep. on individual variations...)

TIA!

Lauren, wife to my dear and mama to amazing River
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#7 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 10:31 AM
 
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(on top of doing some chicken liver multiple times a week now )




I made liver 'pancakes' and froze them, and then just reheated one in the toaster-oven each time I wanted one. (added eggs, herbs and liver in the blender and then fried them all in bacon fat, yum!)


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#8 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 03:39 PM
 
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What form of b6? P5P (activated form) is worth about 4x the same amount of regular b6. When I first started and my nursling had really high b6 needs, I was taking 300mg of b6 and 40mg P5P before he was getting enough. I'd guess that's the high end, and most babes a lot lower amount will do. I'd also guess that it's more often a deficiency in mag or mo that is the problem for pathways, not b6. So I'd start with a basic level of b6 like you're doing, and see how that goes!

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#9 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I need to look at it--not sure what form. Thank you for the info--I'm going to add the mo (which for some reason now intuitively feels like a really good direction to go in) and the mag, and then see what happens and go from there.

And Pat, I currently only eat sneaky liver (hidden in casseroles, sauces and ground meats)--although on a day I'm feeling more brave I'll try your liver pancakes! I'm not doing liver pills any more though! Which is pretty good for me!

Thank you both again!!! Sooooooo grateful for you ladies!!!

Lauren, wife to my dear and mama to amazing River
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#10 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 08:10 PM
 
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I can vouch for the liver pancakes, especially topped with something like pico de gallo. I'll have to try the freezing technique... I don't make them cause I end up throwing half away since nobody else eats them (dd might if she's really hungry).

We crave sulfur foods around here, too. I think if they're working for you, than Mo isn't likely a big issue - though it'd be wise to watch it. We all ran out of our stores at once! Dd is still very into sulfur, but I'm steering away somewhat. I think the two biggest things to affect it for me were biotin and finding the right probiotic source (goat kefir for me). I'm guessing they are dropping my inflammation or something?

Supping me with well-absorbed mag definitely made a difference for dd, even though it *shouldn't* have. My guess is that my mag regulation was off due to adrenal issues, and so my milk was low in it.

When I started B6, it was before knowing about detox pathways. The nutritionist gave me an adrenal supp with 200mg in it (plus B5 and some C). I could only tolerate it when I added a B complex as well. And then I got P5P on my own, and was doing about 200mg of that on top of the B complex for a few months before it was too much. I never noticed a direct change in dd, even with that crazy high dose.

I think that if mom has detox issues (or inflammation), baby definitely will. But the reverse doesn't necessarily hold true, like in special cases like mamafish and her son. But the genetic differences might make them show up differently. (I get mood symptoms from low folate, dd gets methylation symptoms. We both really need the folate though.) Either I'm lucky or I'm way over-projecting, but dd seems to be very similar to me, in many ways, and I've gotten as far as I've gotten by assuming that her reactions mirror my deficiencies and that things that make me feel better are good for her as well.

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#11 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 08:52 PM
 
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And to be clear - DS doesn't seem like me, detox-wise - but he seems very much like DH. So I think genetics can play a big role.

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#12 of 12 Old 01-10-2010, 10:40 PM
 
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I make over-easy fried eggs, and top the liver with the eggs. I find it helps to add a lot more flavor to the mix.

Freezing the cooked liver pancakes really does help me to avoid tossing the excess liver. And makes it easy to have additional liver.


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