Time to learn about oxalates - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oxalates are found primarily in plant foods, and they are created in our bodies. The amount in breastmilk has a wide variation.

In the gut, they are bound to calcium (if there's calcium to bind to) or else they're degraded by gut bacteria, or else they're absorbed into the bloodstream. Antibiotics are good at killing off the oxalate-degrading bacteria.

In excess, oxalates can cause a huge range of issues, and they can deposit. Which means you can have 'oxalate dumping' symptoms if you change the gut balance.

Other nutrients are closely related to oxalates, including calcium, magnesium, B6, biotin, and I'm sure a bunch more

Threads:
changingseason's OAT results and oxalate discovery
Epsom salts and oxalates

Testing:
OAT, urine oxalates, ?

Websites:
http://www.lowoxalate.info/research.html
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/444683-overview

Yahoo groups:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group..._Low_Oxalates/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/VitaminK/
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 04:40 PM
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#3 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oxalates in general:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
According to some posts in the autism-mercury forum:

1) you can get high oxalates from metals toxicity

2) l-carnitine and coqQ10 are good antioxidants and help with oxalates

3) milk thistle is really high in oxalates (as I say uh oh, better go read about that) - don't know if you're taking it, but thought I'd mention it

4) apparently grainy poops can be a sign of high oxalates - wasn't someone asking about that recently?

5) oxalates deplete gluthianone (big for detox), increase inflammation, and mess with zinc utilization

6) can cause bedwetting (Shannon, relevant for you?)

7) ALA (which some people use as a chelator, reduces oxalates. (I know you're read Tanya's stuff on how strong ALA is).

8) Lots of parents report whining/clinginess as an oxalates symptom

9) Many people with oxalates issues can't tolerate much vitamin C

10) Some people find b6/mag helps with oxalates, and vitamin K

11) High oxalates often come out as rashes/spots/even sometimes hives

12) There's a probiotic called vsl#3 that has strain that is supposed to help process oxalates
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
"Oxalate is known to impair carboxylase enzymes producing symptoms equivalent to biotin or biotinidase deficiency."
http://www.lowoxalate.info/research.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
More, from this link:

...Increase intake of essential omega-3 fatty acids, commonly found in fish oil and cod liver oil, which reduces oxalate problems (23). High amounts of the omega-6 fatty acid, arachidonic acid, are associated with increased oxalate problems (24). Meat from grain fed animals is high in arachidonic acid."

And from my autism resources again, high oxalates can cause histamine release and histamine sensitivity.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#4 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Causes of high oxalates:

Food

According to Great Plains, elevated glycolic and/or glyceric acids are associated with one type of hyperoxaluria, and B6 deficiency is another cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
More, from this link:

... if you are high in copper, then vite C tends to be converted to oxalates. So maybe supping vite C isn't your first step here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
It would appear that there's a lot of variation in the oxalate content of breastmilk:
http://mobile.journals.lww.com/jpgn/...&article=00002
if you scroll down and look at the testing results, it ranged from 40 to 160! My mind is boggling over here at the implications of that and things like, say, cavities in a 12mo...
Clearing oxalates:

Oxalates bind with calcium and/or magnesium (when taken with a meal). Alternatively, they can be degraded by some bacteria strains, especially Oxalobacter formigenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Looking further into this article I've been reading... looks like calcium supping is definitely the most recommended treatment for enteric.
Quote:
Initial first-line therapies include a low-oxalate diet while maintaining adequate calcium intake, pyridoxine (vitamin B-6), increased fluids, and optimization of other calcium oxalate nephrolithiasis risk factors. Limit ingestion of vitamin C and cranberry juice products. Calcium supplements are the initial treatment of choice for enteric hyperoxaluria, along with a low-fat diet, antidiarrheal therapy, and sufficient potassium citrate supplementation to maintain optimal urinary citrate levels. Vitamin E can be safely added to any hyperoxaluria treatment regimen.
Quote:
The intestinal tract is normally colonized with Oxalobacter at approximately age 3 years. Oxalobacter loss is primarily due to prolonged or repeated antibiotic therapy. Fluoroquinolones, cephalosporins, tetracyclines, and macrolide preparations are particularly toxic to Oxalobacter bacteria, while penicillin and sulfa drugs have relatively little effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
More, from this link:

"Excessive fats in the diet may cause elevated oxalate if the fatty acids are poorly absorbed because of bile salt deficiency. Nonabsorbed free fatty acids bind calcium to form insoluble soaps, reducing calcium ability to bind oxalate and reduce oxalate absorption (20). If taurine is low in the plasma amino acid profile, supplementation with taurine may help stimulate bile salt production (taurocholic acid), leading to better fatty acid absorption and diminished oxalate absorption.

...Both Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium lactis have enzymes that degrade oxalates (22).
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
VSL#3 Lactic Acid Bacteria Probiotic

COMPOSITION PER PACKET OF VSL#3
Lactic Acid Bacteria: - 450 billion/packet

Streptococcus thermophilus
Bifidobacterium breve
Bifidobacterium longum
Bifidobacterium infantis
Lactobacillus acidophilus
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus casei
Lactobacillus bulgaricus

Other Ingredient contained in VSL3: Corn Starch

http://www.crohns.net/page/C/PROD/Probiotic/VSL3000
http://www.crohns.net/Miva/productinfo/whyVSL3.shtml
http://www.vsl3.com/about-vsl-special.asp
http://www.vsl3.com/healthcare.asp


Pat
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
CS, the oxalates fighting bacteria we were talking about upthread - Oxalobacter formigenes. I've been noodling on that one, since there's no probiotic supp avaialble with this strain. It's a commonly occurring soil organism - I'm wondering if soil based organism probiotics (like here), might possibly contain this strain? Or just go eat dirt ... (I know they said most kids colonize this bacteria around 3yo, and I'm wondering how they do it...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by menomena View Post
it's talked about in the lowoxalate.info site, i think. see here: http://www.lowoxalate.info/research.html

and here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pmc/articles/PMC124017/

edit: here's the page to the company working on that strain-specific probx: http://www.oxthera.com/products.php doesn't look like it's available yet, though?

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#5 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interacting with other nutrients:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panserbjørne View Post
People who have oxalate issues have the opposite affect from epsom salt soaks. It generally revs kids up beyond the point of control. It can also be uncomfortable for them. But yeah, lots of people report it's like giving their kids espresso and depriving them of sleep all at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panserbjørne View Post
Yes, oxalates *can* cause diarrhea all on their own. In this case it's the mag which can disrupt the calcium that is usually required in excess to deal with the oxalate issue. Enough mag for the average person isn't always the most comfy thing for someone with oxalate issues.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#6 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 06:43 PM
 
dannic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,700
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm just now getting up the courage to look into sals and histamines and now you throw this at me???

My poor brain can't take it!!!


caution: one-handed nak

typos likely

dannic is offline  
#7 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've been reading in the low oxalate group...

One idea for oxalate degrading bacteria is to eat fermented high oxalate foods. I think I see some pickled beets and ginger carrots in my future...

And they talk a lot about oxalate dumping - a period of improvement followed by a return of symptoms. And that it can take on the order of a year to finally clear most of the stored oxalates. Fun. I wonder how dumping impacts breastmilk levels... compared to not addressing the issue at all.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#8 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 07:26 PM
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A year?!

eta: So you're thinking that in the fermentation process, bacteria will form that destroy the oxalates? Why specifically high-oxalate foods? I have some chard stalks that I put in the cupboard months ago... and forgot about. hmm. But wait- the oxalates are in the greens- of beets too. The stalks (or beets) wouldn't be high oxalate, would they? And ginger is not supposed to be that high either.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#9 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
A year?!

eta: So you're thinking that in the fermentation process, bacteria will form that destroy the oxalates? Why specifically high-oxalate foods? I have some chard stalks that I put in the cupboard months ago... and forgot about. hmm. But wait- the oxalates are in the greens- of beets too. The stalks (or beets) wouldn't be high oxalate, would they? And ginger is not supposed to be that high either.
It's known that fermenting can reduce oxalate content, so the idea is to ferment a high oxalate food as 'bait' for the oxalate degrading bacteria.

"Beet greens and to a lesser extent, the roots contain high levels of oxalate."
http://www.copperwiki.org/index.php?title=Beetroot

And carrots are supposed to be fairly high. The ginger is just to make them taste better

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#10 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 09:04 PM
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok- can we talk about why the same food would be high/low in oxalates when eaten raw, but the opposite when cooked? I had assumed that they would be lower when cooked, but now that I'm going through the food lists again, some are exactly the opposite. Like collards- very low when raw, high when steamed. Medium when boiled. Also- why does steaming raise the oxalates so much, as opposed to boiling? Are they just dispersed through the cooking water?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#11 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
Ok- can we talk about why the same food would be high/low in oxalates when eaten raw, but the opposite when cooked? I had assumed that they would be lower when cooked, but now that I'm going through the food lists again, some are exactly the opposite. Like collards- very low when raw, high when steamed. Medium when boiled. Also- why does steaming raise the oxalates so much, as opposed to boiling? Are they just dispersed through the cooking water?
Yeah, that's confusing me as well... I'm kind of just assuming the oxalates are bound somehow when raw, and that cooking makes them more bioavailable. And that boiling washes away a significant portion. But that's just a guess. Some part may have to do with quantity, too? Like 100g raw isn't the same as 100g cooked, cause water is lost/gained?

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#12 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 09:30 PM
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Yeah, that's confusing me as well... I'm kind of just assuming the oxalates are bound somehow when raw, and that cooking makes them more bioavailable. And that boiling washes away a significant portion. But that's just a guess. Some part may have to do with quantity, too? Like 100g raw isn't the same as 100g cooked, cause water is lost/gained?
Yeah- that's exactly what I was thinking, but then what about the collards?

I'm trying to figure out what else I can do with our diet- just about everything we eat is high oxalate. I guess I can start boiling our broccoli and carrots for a start. Yuck.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#13 of 71 Old 02-01-2010, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm wondering if you can crave high oxalate foods. We've got a serious addiction to them going on over here...

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#14 of 71 Old 02-02-2010, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.livingwithout.com/issues/...en-1236-1.html
"If this diet is helpful, there should be improvements (between “dumps”) in the areas of physical comfort, complex thinking, sociability, speech, gross and fine motor skills, energy, loss of stiffness and amelioration of skin problems, such as eczema. Children may be willing to eat foods previously avoided and their craving for high-oxalate foods may disappear. After detoxing is complete, a process that can take several months to a couple of years, higher-oxalate foods can be gradually returned to the diet."

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#15 of 71 Old 02-02-2010, 01:50 AM
 
beadmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We originally had dds OAT done for oxalate levels but they turned out fine. When I spoke with the bio-chemist and Great Plains I asked her opinion of GAPS/SCD. She said they were both good diets and has seen many kids helped with them but she sees problems with oxalates due to them. The amount of oxalates eaten seems to increase on these diets due to the high amount of high oxalate vegetables. She said to take calcium when eating a high oxalate diet to help bind them and process them out of the body.

Wife to : DH and Mama to Abigail Rose 3/30/08 :
beadmama is offline  
#16 of 71 Old 02-02-2010, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have a question that I don't want to forget. When limiting oxalates, how much is it necessary to limit total oxalates, vs bound oxalates? As in, spinach is high in oxalates, but it's also high in calcium. Chocolate and peanut butter are really high in oxalates, but they're also high in magnesium. Vs carrots or sweet potatoes, which are high in oxalates, but IIRC, aren't particularly high in cal or mag.

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#17 of 71 Old 02-02-2010, 10:20 PM
 
Koalamom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Subbing!

Great compiled info. To me it just seems so unnatural to cut out all those amazing oxalate foods. But I know I need some changes.

I have some thoughts and think we may have oxalate issues. We consume many oxalate rich foods, but many months ago, we were consuming lots of raw dairy, I mean all the time. We went through several gallons of raw milk a week, mainly yogurt, especially eaten by me and my 2 yr dd. We ate a ton of cheese, several pounds a week. We have cut that out in last 2 months. For the first 2 weeks we saw great improvements without the dairy. Rashes faded and things were looking good. Then all of a sudden things are getting worse, and my dd now has been crying about her new molars coming in. She has never ever has issues before.

This makes me think that we have oxalate issues. Now I am thinking of adding back in the dairy because it will help us in the long run. Any thoughts?

And to add, my son has a very low tolerance for Vit C. I take just a little, breastfeed him, and he gets the runs, 10 times a day. I would like to know more about reducing the load of oxalates in breastmilk. Is this pointing to high oxalates?
Koalamom is offline  
#18 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 12:27 AM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The dairy is interesting - we definitely see less sandy poops from DS now that he is back on dairy. What were your dairy symptoms? Increasing mag intake along with adding dairy back might help.

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#19 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:05 AM
 
Koalamom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
The dairy is interesting - we definitely see less sandy poops from DS now that he is back on dairy. What were your dairy symptoms? Increasing mag intake along with adding dairy back might help.
With my dd it is rashes behind her legs and sometimes the rest of her body. She gets bad cradle cap, and I think this is dairy related, not 100% sure. She is almost 3 yr old. She does get sandy poops, but I never knew they were oxalate related.

With my ds who is 6 months old. He gets really congested and cranky. He does get rashes, but I am not sure how much is dairy related or from other foods or issues from me as the toxin dumper breastfeeding.

With these symptoms would you add dairy back in to try to lessen oxalate issues?

What were your symptoms? And what kind of dairy did you add back in?
Koalamom is offline  
#20 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:08 AM
 
Koalamom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
I have a question that I don't want to forget. When limiting oxalates, how much is it necessary to limit total oxalates, vs bound oxalates? As in, spinach is high in oxalates, but it's also high in calcium. Chocolate and peanut butter are really high in oxalates, but they're also high in magnesium. Vs carrots or sweet potatoes, which are high in oxalates, but IIRC, aren't particularly high in cal or mag.
Just a guess is that chocolate may be a bigger issue because is it also high in salicylates, etc.

For some reason, carrots are just fine for all of us, but sweet potatoes are bad for us all. My gums hurt bad and all the way out to the other end (), and my dd gets really rashy. Carrots have no reaction at all.
Koalamom is offline  
#21 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Koalamom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannic View Post
I'm just now getting up the courage to look into sals and histamines and now you throw this at me???

My poor brain can't take it!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
It's known that fermenting can reduce oxalate content, so the idea is to ferment a high oxalate food as 'bait' for the oxalate degrading bacteria.

"Beet greens and to a lesser extent, the roots contain high levels of oxalate."
http://www.copperwiki.org/index.php?title=Beetroot

And carrots are supposed to be fairly high. The ginger is just to make them taste better
Dannic, if you are having histamine issues, then you may not want to lacto ferment your oxalate foods since they are histamine foods.http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc...htm#foodsource
So crazy huh! There is just no winning.
Koalamom is offline  
#22 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
Theloose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: some planet
Posts: 6,476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 View Post
Just a guess is that chocolate may be a bigger issue because is it also high in salicylates, etc.
Chocolate doesn't have sals, but it does have amines (and a bunch of other stuff).
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...licylates.aspx

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
Theloose is offline  
#23 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:30 AM
 
Koalamom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
Chocolate doesn't have sals, but it does have amines (and a bunch of other stuff).
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...licylates.aspx
Thanks you for straightening me out. So many things in foods it confuses me. I need a clear cut page of everything and better a page that tells me what I can eat. I knew there was something in chocolate.
Koalamom is offline  
#24 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:42 AM
 
sunny65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 View Post
Thanks you for straightening me out. So many things in foods it confuses me. I need a clear cut page of everything and better a page that tells me what I can eat. I knew there was something in chocolate.
May be we can improvize this list http://www.lowoxalate.info/food_list...stat_chart.pdf
sunny65 is offline  
#25 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Koalamom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 4,536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I really think that my son has oxalate issues well over my dd. He has lyme diease and I don't think that my dd does. I was wondering if there is a connection between that and oxalates, and this talks about that. And he has metal issues too which usually goes hand in hand with lyme.

http://www.vitalitywellness.com/educ...fs/Vit%20K.pdf
Quote:
In this paper I am proposing that a deficiency in Vitamin K causes unregulated calcium movement and deposition in the body of the autistic child, and that unregulated calcium is a cause of many of the symptoms associated with autism. I am also proposing that a Vitamin K deficiency is the cause of the calcium oxalate crystals found in many autistic children.

Calcium, in tandem with the neurotransmitter glutamate, is essential to the functioning of the excitatory cells of the nervous system: once glutamate opens the neuronal cell’s calcium channel, calcium pours into the channel and triggers the neuron to fire. The concentration of glutamate within the nervous system is therefore carefully regulated by the nervous system (specifically the astrocytes, which can be negatively affected by mercury and by neurotoxins produced by Lyme spirochetes) because excess glutamate
will keep the calcium channels open, allowing calcium to continue to enter, and excite
, the neurons. Dr. Russell Blaylock, among others, has written extensively about the neurotoxicity associated with an excess of glutamate.15 However, I believe that unregulated calcium may play an unappreciated role in triggering the incessant neuronal firing and resultant cell death that are a hallmark of excess glutamate in the nervous system. If a child is unable to regulate calcium due to a Vitamin K deficiency, that child
may display signs of glutamate toxicity and uncontrolled neuronal firing that manifest as the cluster of behavioral disorders called autism
.
So even though I get lots of calcium, it can be unregulated because the lyme can mess with that and thus highering the oxalates in us. This connects to Vit K. This explains why my son does well when I get lots of Vit K rich foods.
Koalamom is offline  
#26 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 11:51 AM
 
menomena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: here, for now
Posts: 2,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
subbing...

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
menomena is offline  
#27 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 01:57 PM
 
mamafish9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1 View Post
I really think that my son has oxalate issues well over my dd. He has lyme diease and I don't think that my dd does. I was wondering if there is a connection between that and oxalates, and this talks about that. And he has metal issues too which usually goes hand in hand with lyme.

http://www.vitalitywellness.com/educ...fs/Vit%20K.pdf


So even though I get lots of calcium, it can be unregulated because the lyme can mess with that and thus highering the oxalates in us. This connects to Vit K. This explains why my son does well when I get lots of Vit K rich foods.
Interesting. Off to read about vitamin K rich foods... We eat raw, cultured butter, I assume that's a good one!

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
mamafish9 is offline  
#28 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 04:04 PM
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What kind of sick joke is this?! According to WHFoods, the vitamin K rich foods are:
Quote:
Excellent sources of vitamin K include: spinach, Brussels sprouts, Swiss chard, green beans, asparagus, broccoli, kale and mustard greens. Very good sources include green peas and carrots.
Anyone see a problem with this list...? Ok- I think asparagus are low in oxalates, but that's the only one. sigh.


eta: calling Tanya.... she takes a K supp, right?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
#29 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 04:09 PM
 
menomena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: here, for now
Posts: 2,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
What kind of sick joke is this?! According to WHFoods, the vitamin K rich foods are:

Anyone see a problem with this list...? Ok- I think asparagus are low in oxalates, but that's the only one. sigh.
well... boiled brussels sprouts, boiled broccoli are low. asparagus is very low. boiled carrots are medium.

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
menomena is offline  
#30 of 71 Old 02-03-2010, 04:26 PM
 
changingseasons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by menomena View Post
well... boiled brussels sprouts, boiled broccoli are low. asparagus is very low. boiled carrots are medium.
ok, ok... So if we eat broccoli every day, can I assume that our K levels are ok?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
changingseasons is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off