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#121 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 10:11 PM
 
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Grocery day.
I bought groceries. I also bought garden/work gloves and a big bag of dirt to fill a pot which I intend to try to grow some stuff on the patio/porch/balcony/whatever you want to call it since I never seem to make it as far as the backyard and greenhouse. Spent time discussing plans of what to do in the yard and none actually doing it. I was supposed to buy a drill but didn't bc I knew that dh would complain about the one I was going to buy. Oh! Also got an under bed storage container to put ds2 and ds3's play rice in. Looked at curtain rods (still don't have window coverings).
GTG. DS2 had a poo-splosion.

eta: Also, it was great for DS1. Only "missed" soy, which is cumulative and only shows a reaction after 5 or so days of soy yogourt at every lunch and soy "sour cream" on a meal and soy milk in baking etc...

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#122 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 10:26 PM
 
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So it appears that I overplanted my raised beds. Put plants too close together. Should I just sacrifice a few plants for the better good or just let them go and see what happens?

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#123 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 10:42 PM
 
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So it appears that I overplanted my raised beds. Put plants too close together. Should I just sacrifice a few plants for the better good or just let them go and see what happens?
Transplant into containers?

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#124 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 11:00 PM
 
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So it appears that I overplanted my raised beds. Put plants too close together. Should I just sacrifice a few plants for the better good or just let them go and see what happens?
What kind? Beets or anything that has edible greens, I let go for a while till 6 or so inches then I thin and use the greens. If it is a root crop then you definitely need to thin or they will be too crowded. I generally like tight spacing (closer then a seed packet suggests) so the plants touch each other and shade out weeds...

Emily, cooking allergen free, knitting, reading, gardening Mom to 1 beautiful girl, born in the water on July 1, 2006 Wife to 1 handsome man since September 10, 2005
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#125 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 11:14 PM
 
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Jen, that is absolutely typical die off/detox. The good news is, you're doing something that is making a difference. If it's more extreme than you want to deal with, back off on the enzymes and viracin for a bit (either stop entirely for a day or two, and resume at a lower dose, or cut the dose in half now). Generally things will get better in 3-4 days, so figure out what you can handle for that long.



Yes, too much folate could be converted to glutamate, which won't help - but I think you're seeing die off. I wouldn't change too many things right now, or read too much into these behaviors. Starting the new enzymes & viracin is causing gut die off, and lots of gut bacteria & yeast hold metals. So he is moving metals again (the stuttering is a BIG sign of metals moving for lots of spectrum kids - not saying he's autistic, just that's where I know most of the symptoms from!). I do tend to feed DS less sals when he is in acute metals detox - lots of metals clear through the same pathway as sals, so it will stress his body a little less.

Is he still pooping? If he's clearing metals, it's really critical he poop at least once a day, ideally more. (This is where I go straight to an enema if need be, I don't mess around. I get the cheap drugstore ones and use about 20% of the liquid in them, save the rest in a jar for later use). These days I up his mag before I do something I suspect will move metals, so it rarely is necessary, but I do it if I need to.
Thank you for confirming what I also believe to be going on. I hate always second guessing myself and wondering what is going on and feeling so powerless to help. I did up his mag and vit c today. I kept the enzyme and viracin dose the same. He pooped only a tiny bit tonight. We may go for a liquid suppository tomarrow morning. This usually works really well for him. That's a really great idea to take it easy on the sals now, too, just in case. But I agree I have to be careful not to read too much into this. He is experiencing die off right now and that is good. We had such a rough day though, I hate to see him so nutty. I hope this does pass in 3 to 4 days. I can hang on for that long. I am tired already.

jen

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#126 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 11:27 PM
 
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chlobo- depending on what it is, you can eat the baby plants as you thin them out. I do that with leafy greens and onions. Other plants, like tomatoes, peppers, etc, I'd thin them out. I've tried transplanting them in the past, but I had to put them in containers (huge ones*) and they didn't grow much. If you have extra garden space elsewhere, you might have luck. Otherwise, I say be ruthless.

*We had the large containers because our house used to be a grow-op before we moved in. We have the police search warrant from the previous residents. Tons plant containers- way more than 50!! Not that that's relevant in any way, just sort of interesting. lol


I am so tired of people thinking they know more about our situation than I do. Or thinking that I must be dense, or unconcerned about nutrition. gah.

My BIL was saying that HE would do the allergy testing (I'd told him we weren't doing it, and that it hurt). He said that the few minutes of pain would be better than the harm we're doing ds by the lack of nutrition Yeah, because I have no concern for nutrition. I did mention after that some of the downsides of the allergy tests- not accurate for babies, only detect IgE, etc. He did say something positive about all the work I'm putting into figuring it out, so I can keep bf'ing though, so it wasn't all bad.

My neighbor just today thought it necessary to mention to me that just because he reacts one time to something, doesn't mean it's a food related problem. Like I don't understand the difference between cause and effect, and coincidence. When I said that it's been 3 times now that his rash goes away on black beans and quinoa, she said something about...it worked because my system needed to clear out? something like that.

My grandma called and said she looked up eczema online, and ds's rash doesn't look like that. So the dr. must be wrong. On the plus side here, it's really that she's on my side. This is the doc that said that Jonah's rash can't be related to anything I'm eating, and my grandma thinks the doc is wrong about everything (to my grandma, either you're always right and can do no wrong, or you are always wrong and can do no right). So really, she's trying to be supportive. At least she agrees that it's food related.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#127 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 11:30 PM
 
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Jen, I'd do the suppository, and also up his mag a LOT. (Give it to him first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, 30 minutes before food). Give mag oxide if you have any - it isn't absorbed as well, so it helps with pooping.

For what it's worth, when metals are stopping my son pooping, it seems to be lead that is on the move (and that's what we saw come out when he had gut die off, gut bacteria can also sequester lead). So really, really make sure he poops tomorrow morning - if it is lead, you don't want that absorbed back into his system.

When you are in die off, don't interpret anything as meaningful . Get past the die off first, or you will 1) make yourself crazy, and 2) probably be wrong . Hang in there! My guy is currently running banging on the TV from his current bout of detox (should be the last for us, last supp increase for a while, yay!).

Becky - oh man. So been there. I picture in my head sending my DS over to their house when he's reacting to the thing they don't think is true.

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#128 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 11:38 PM
 
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Iodine for a CT scan? that is not radioactive b/c it would really destroy the thyroid. But CT scans do emit radiation. I have no idea if that is "carried" by the body at all for a time or not.
l[/url]
Is an angiogram a CT? All I could find is that they put a catheter in her thigh and shoot iodine up it to show arteries ect, then take xrays to follow the paths highlighted by the iodine...

I don't want to be exposed to any radiation, period. I've asked her to ask them...hopefully she will...

Check this out...what do you know about cadmium?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...iref=allsearch

caution: one-handed nak

typos likely

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#129 of 873 Old 06-05-2010, 11:52 PM
 
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Check this out...what do you know about cadmium?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...iref=allsearch
Very toxic, hard to get out of the body, messes with zinc.

ETA: DH is gone, DS is wild, it's going to be a long night! I'm *supposed* to be doing a very tedious report for work, so you'll see a lot of me .

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#130 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:11 AM
 
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I forgot you Chlobo! I agree with Deva--if it's an indeterminate tomato or even a squash, be ruthless. Otherwise, just succession eat, lol.

MFish, good luck on your long night.

We went swimming in a salt pool for the second time in two days today...can anyone think why that would set dd off? Or is she just overly tired? She wet, and has had major meltdowns all evening...used some essential oils and she's finally calming down...

caution: one-handed nak

typos likely

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#131 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:16 AM
 
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Jen, I'd do the suppository, and also up his mag a LOT. (Give it to him first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, 30 minutes before food). Give mag oxide if you have any - it isn't absorbed as well, so it helps with pooping.

For what it's worth, when metals are stopping my son pooping, it seems to be lead that is on the move (and that's what we saw come out when he had gut die off, gut bacteria can also sequester lead). So really, really make sure he poops tomorrow morning - if it is lead, you don't want that absorbed back into his system.

When you are in die off, don't interpret anything as meaningful . Get past the die off first, or you will 1) make yourself crazy, and 2) probably be wrong . Hang in there! My guy is currently running banging on the TV from his current bout of detox (should be the last for us, last supp increase for a while, yay!).

Becky - oh man. So been there. I picture in my head sending my DS over to their house when he's reacting to the thing they don't think is true.
All I have for mag is natural calm. I usually give him 1 to 1/2 tsp which I think is about 160 to 180 mg. I have been thinking I need to up this anyway. How much should I give him? I am dreading the suppository in the morning. We have Sunday school and have to leave the house by 8:00 anyway. It's going to be a fun morning. I probably won't sleep much tonight worrying about circulating metals.... :yawning

jen mommy to dd1 (11y), dd2 (6y) and ds (3y)
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#132 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:36 AM
 
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All I have for mag is natural calm. I usually give him 1 to 1/2 tsp which I think is about 160 to 180 mg. I have been thinking I need to up this anyway. How much should I give him? I am dreading the suppository in the morning. We have Sunday school and have to leave the house by 8:00 anyway. It's going to be a fun morning. I probably won't sleep much tonight worrying about circulating metals.... :yawning
I'd give him that much natural calm 3x tomorrow. That might give him diarrhea, but in this case, that's a better outcome. I hear you on the suppositories not being fun - but he will feel a lot better after he poops. Don't stress about the metals, just think about all the garbage he will poop out tomorrow

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#133 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 01:04 AM
 
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Can I ask a really stupid question? How do you *know* if there are metals moving? Or do you never truly know?

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#134 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 01:11 AM
 
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Okay, so I've been reading up on angiograms, lol. NOt all say they are radioactive, but enough articles do say that so I am planning on bringing it up to my MW. And this USA Today article said it's acutally a high amount of radiation and that it has been linked (the CT iodine) to cancer. Great. Her heart will be fine, I'm sure, but now she'll die of cancer. And it mentioned that angiograms are way over used.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...giograms_N.htm

Just in case anyone is interested. (DOn't know why you should be--I wasn't until this came up)

DH is asleep and it's too late to call the MW so I have no one else to vent to. Lucky you guys!

DD1 is still awake. An old classic symptom of gluten poisoning for her. So I got to thinking about it and I think I figured it out! Sunscreen! I am such an idiot! I've glutenned her twice in two weeks! Is it waterbabies that is GF? Mine is Banana Boat Babies.
Hmm, well according to three different site, BB is GF. No clue...

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#135 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 01:26 AM
 
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Can I ask a really stupid question? How do you *know* if there are metals moving? Or do you never truly know?
Well, first, have you done something where you'd "expect" metals to be moving. For example, we did chelation with zeolite, where we were intentionally trying to mobilize metals. We'd see symptoms a few hours after we started, and they'd stop about a day after we stopped the zeolite (we did it for 3 days at a time in the beginning). We've done enough pee testing during those times to be sure we were pulling metals.

And after a while, you can begin to associate some symptoms with some metals, just like some reactions match to some foods. It helps that many autistic kids react to the same metals the same way, so when I say "hey, my kid is chewing on everything, what's up", someone will reply and say "that's probably lead". And generally they've been right. For us, antimony & arsenic = constipation and poor sleep. Lead = chewing/teeth grinding & constipation, but OK sleep. Virus = fever and/or rash. Bacterial die off = fussy and hard to go to sleep.

By this point, I don't test any more, except for a hair test every three months to see what we've pulled in the last few months (I'm doing that because over time the amount of each metal should eventually start to taper off, suggesting we have the bulk of it out of DS). And it's nice when relatives are think this is all total whooey to show them DS' hair test with antimony or arsenic in the total topline high alert emergency toxic red zone and say, "SEE, I'm not making it up"...

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#136 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 03:40 AM
 
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Serial posting...

Been doing some research on celiac, trying to see if I could find anything else that fits DD, besides being tiny.

1) only 30% of diagnosed celiac patients present with GI symptoms (diarrhea, bloating, weird poop, distended belly, etc)
2) migraine sufferers are 10% more likely to have celiac than the general population (not DD, but DH)
3) tooth enamel issues (definitely DD )
4) keratosis pilaris (there are several threads in celiac forums going "hey, yeah, those bumps did go away when I went GF!") - DH has a lot, DD a little (and it hasn't responded to the normal stuff, EFAs, cal/mag)
5) cradle cap - again, not on the official symptom lists, but a lot of kids with celiac seem to have (DD had it for a long time, and it still pops back up occasionally)

I don't know if that's a very convincing list, but it does at least put a couple other potentially supporting symptoms on the list...

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#137 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 09:10 AM
 
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what happened to all my quotes?! argh.

DH's relatives were looking at my cookbook mock-ups last night at the party. "You made this?" "you took these pictures?" "where do you find these ingredients?" "what is this stuff?" (like milled flax) "you can eat the stuff in these pictures?" "you can't eat regular stuff?" "can you have wheat?" "what happens if you eat this stuff?" I think I grew 6 heads or was a science experiment or something. It's been 10 years of off and on restrictions for DS. It's been 2 years since we've done the massive elimination. At some point, does it stop being "weird"?

I grow things close together too - but I thin out on some things and eat them small, depending on what they are (like taking out extra onions and using them as scallions). I have a round container, and I planted 6 beets in it, and only one is growing. Two pots with one cauliflower in each, and only one came up. My container garden isn't doing too great at home.

Anybody know how long it takes to get the metals results (urine)? It was through Doctor's Data, I think....

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#138 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 10:09 AM
 
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Very interesting on the metals! I've wondered about that for a while. There's so much that I didn't know that I don't know! lol. I can't believe you all know so much about so many things. I'm only just dipping my toes in.

Becky, partner to Teague, SAHM to Keagan (7yo), Jonah (2yo)
 

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#139 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 10:14 AM
 
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chlobo- depending on what it is, you can eat the baby plants as you thin them out. I do that with leafy greens and onions. Other plants, like tomatoes, peppers, etc, I'd thin them out. I've tried transplanting them in the past, but I had to put them in containers (huge ones*) and they didn't grow much. If you have extra garden space elsewhere, you might have luck. Otherwise, I say be ruthless.

Cabbage, broccoli & I think squash (didn't label that one)


*We had the large containers because our house used to be a grow-op before we moved in. We have the police search warrant from the previous residents. Tons plant containers- way more than 50!! Not that that's relevant in any way, just sort of interesting. lol


I am so tired of people thinking they know more about our situation than I do. Or thinking that I must be dense, or unconcerned about nutrition. gah.

My BIL was saying that HE would do the allergy testing (I'd told him we weren't doing it, and that it hurt). He said that the few minutes of pain would be better than the harm we're doing ds by the lack of nutrition Yeah, because I have no concern for nutrition. I did mention after that some of the downsides of the allergy tests- not accurate for babies, only detect IgE, etc. He did say something positive about all the work I'm putting into figuring it out, so I can keep bf'ing though, so it wasn't all bad.

My neighbor just today thought it necessary to mention to me that just because he reacts one time to something, doesn't mean it's a food related problem. Like I don't understand the difference between cause and effect, and coincidence. When I said that it's been 3 times now that his rash goes away on black beans and quinoa, she said something about...it worked because my system needed to clear out? something like that.

My grandma called and said she looked up eczema online, and ds's rash doesn't look like that. So the dr. must be wrong. On the plus side here, it's really that she's on my side. This is the doc that said that Jonah's rash can't be related to anything I'm eating, and my grandma thinks the doc is wrong about everything (to my grandma, either you're always right and can do no wrong, or you are always wrong and can do no right). So really, she's trying to be supportive. At least she agrees that it's food related.
That is soooo annoying.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#140 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 10:44 AM
 
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We went swimming in a salt pool for the second time in two days today...can anyone think why that would set dd off? Or is she just overly tired? She wet, and has had major meltdowns all evening...used some essential oils and she's finally calming down...
Dehydration?
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Serial posting...

Been doing some research on celiac, trying to see if I could find anything else that fits DD, besides being tiny.

1) only 30% of diagnosed celiac patients present with GI symptoms (diarrhea, bloating, weird poop, distended belly, etc)
2) migraine sufferers are 10% more likely to have celiac than the general population (not DD, but DH)
3) tooth enamel issues (definitely DD )
4) keratosis pilaris (there are several threads in celiac forums going "hey, yeah, those bumps did go away when I went GF!") - DH has a lot, DD a little (and it hasn't responded to the normal stuff, EFAs, cal/mag)
5) cradle cap - again, not on the official symptom lists, but a lot of kids with celiac seem to have (DD had it for a long time, and it still pops back up occasionally)

I don't know if that's a very convincing list, but it does at least put a couple other potentially supporting symptoms on the list...
I'm pretty sure KP is a calcium regulation/calcium ion channel thing. And cradle cap is an inflammation/EFA/biotin/b6 thing. Obviously both easily caused by celiac

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#141 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 11:30 AM
 
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Don't know, but I took both adrenal and thyroid glandulars both pregnant and nursing with dd2 and am on adrenal glandulars this time too. My mw seriously got after me when I ran out for a week. To DH: Make sure she orders them today. She needs to be on them.
I am hugely better on them than off. I think it's helped me not pass some of this stuff on to my babes as well (Adrenal ect.) I know most supps have that cuationary warning, which makes it difficult to determine which ones truly are contraindicated in pregnancy, nursing...

.
Which glandulars are you on? What *would* be issues with glandulars while pregnant?
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#142 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 11:52 AM
 
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Dehydration?


I'm pretty sure KP is a calcium regulation/calcium ion channel thing. And cradle cap is an inflammation/EFA/biotin/b6 thing. Obviously both easily caused by celiac
So my DD has terrible cradle cap at age 6. She's taking 32mg (yes mg) of biotin & still, it persists. She also gets a whole foods b complex vitamin every day. What am I missing?

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#143 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 11:55 AM
 
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So my DD has terrible cradle cap at age 6. She's taking 32mg (yes mg) of biotin & still, it persists. She also gets a whole foods b complex vitamin every day. What am I missing?
What about EFA's? DD improved, actually it's pretty much gone with FCLO. Although I'm not sure how high it is in EFA's
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#144 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:18 PM
 
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So my DD has terrible cradle cap at age 6. She's taking 32mg (yes mg) of biotin & still, it persists. She also gets a whole foods b complex vitamin every day. What am I missing?
Short answer, I don't know but try more b6? I'm discovering that with both dd and ds, it'll show up pretty fast, then take FOREVER to go away. Basically until I can scratch it all off

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#145 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:20 PM
 
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Short answer, I don't know but try more b6? I'm discovering that with both dd and ds, it'll show up pretty fast, then take FOREVER to go away. Basically until I can scratch it all off
If only she'd let me scratch it off. But you'd think I was trying to kill her the way she carries on. And don't get me started about when we try to brush her hair.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#146 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:21 PM
 
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I feel like I'm in a holding pattern with the allergy/enzyme/whatever stuff right now, and I keep seeing how the computer pulls me away from dd and from real life. Not to mention, I don't have much internet time nor is it easy to respond to stuff on the iPod. So if I'm MIA, hope it's cause I'm park-ing and crafting with dd and not cause I'm going insane

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Eating shouldn't be stressful!
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#147 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:23 PM
 
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If only she'd let me scratch it off. But you'd think I was trying to kill her the way she carries on. And don't get me started about when we try to brush her hair.
Yeah... I only get to work on dd's when she's nursing, sometimes, and her hair is short enough that it doesn't tangle for a reason. She's never had a completely clear scalp. Somehow she'll let my mom brush her hair, though. Whatever works!

allergy-nutrition mama, dh, 4yo dd, and March ds
Eating shouldn't be stressful!
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#148 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:45 PM
 
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So what do you ladies think of Mark Hyman, the guy who wrote the Huffington Post article on Folic acid? He has a clinic in western Mass that I almost went to. However, it costs $5-7K to see him & get all the testing done & he doesn't take insurance. But I'll be you get plenty of answers. He seems very vested in getting to what ails you.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#149 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 12:56 PM
 
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Can I ask a really stupid question? How do you *know* if there are metals moving? Or do you never truly know?
I've gone about this slightly differently than mamafish, so I've never distinguished between different metals. Because I know my problem is my amalgam fillings, and DD's hair test just showed deranged mineral transport indicating mercury plus a fairly high amount of arsenic, and nothing else, my working assumption is that those are the two most problematic metals we're dealing with, plus probably accumulated weird chemicals.

So when I do something that I know moves metals (either on purpose, or realizing later accidentally ) I assume it's mostly genetic metals, only once have I seen something that I suspected was more weird chemicals than metals.

During the various round with both kids, I use DMSA and ALA, I mostly didn't see symptoms, tiredness with the ALA, and sometimes symptoms the first day off, but fairly generalized like fussiness, clinginess, crying easily, nothing that I've specifically tracked to any particular metal. And given the headaches/body aches type issues I've dealt with a few times, if *I* could be fussy, clingy and cry easily, I would've.

I think I'm going to be "done" with dealing with metals for the kids when I can give them fairly high doses of ALA (alpha lipoic acid, not alpha linolenic acid which is an omega-3 precursor found in walnuts, flax, etc--so annoying that the acronyms are the same) without their vitC need going up. Well, I take it back. At that point, I'll probably branch out like I am with myself, and do some of the things that Cutler specifically recommends against, or at least stuff that's not on his radar. I am reacting quite a bit to supplemental glycine, so I've got to figure that the kids would benefit as well, but later.

Here's the frustrating part: I am much closer to being done for me than I am for the kids. I am really hoping that the glandulars, maybe glandulars plus enzymes, improve the kids' digestion enough that I can get regular rounds of ALA going again. I've been frustrated at how easily metals get mobilized in them (sometimes due to life circumstances, not pills/products) and how slow they are to clear out, and I think that's stressed their guts (or the life circumstances and/or products are stressing their guts, sometimes it's hard to distinguish). DD will be 7 in November. I'd really hoped to be done by the time she turned 6, and now I'm skeptical about finishing by 7. And I see subtle developmental stuff in DS, things that I think only I can see, but that are being impacted by all this and I want to clear this up asap.

Anyway, thanks to mamafish, I've got another something to try, and a busy summer (a month away from home, home for a bit, than probably another 2 weeks away) so either way, it was going to be more a social summer than a working summer.
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#150 of 873 Old 06-06-2010, 01:09 PM
 
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What about EFA's? DD improved, actually it's pretty much gone with FCLO. Although I'm not sure how high it is in EFA's

Maybe not FCLO, but I was going to suggest EFAs since you didn't mention it, Carren.

Re: Dr. Mark Hyman: I have him on my FB and I have seen him give people suggestions on his page. He seems knowledgeable and like he genuinely wants to help people. I think if I could afford to go and see him and lived anywhere that that was feasible, I would jump at it. eta: Of course, I'd probably try reading his books first if I hadn't already (which I haven't).

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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