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Please wise mamas - help my DD eat!

1K views 25 replies 6 participants last post by  kjbrown92 
#1 ·
Background: My DD is 14 mos old and 18 pounds even. She must be 0% on the CDC charts and 10% on WHO. Be that as it may she is very very puny.
I was a low supply mom and my milk has dwindled a lot currently. Clearly I am not making enough for her (She was stalled on her weight the last 2 months and now has started losing a bit of weight - 5 ounces from the last time we measured her).
She eats solids but merely grazes and pecks (2 strings of spaghetti, 1 carrot etc.)
She has no appetite to speak of. Here is where I need help. Are there any digestive enzymes, supplements that I can give my DD to up her appetite?

Currently she is on the infant probiotics from custom probiotics (since past 10 days) and some multi vitamin drops called MultiDec (again 10 days)

I have tried everything under the sun for my milk spply and am currently on Dom (120mg a day) and mother's milk plus tea. If it is a galactagogue I must have tried it.......

Please help me help my DD eat more solids mamas......
 
#2 ·
Sympathy! I have no magic answer, but my own DS was eventually diagnosed with silent reflux after "failing to thrive", food refusal and allergies (beef, cow's milk, eggs and some more less serious ones). For a long while we were waiting for an endoscopy to rule out eosinophilic eosophagitis (EE). The main symptoms of that illness are food refusal and low weight. It's apparently more common than doctors think. And ditto for reflux. My DS had none of the usual symptoms for that (he rarely throws up for example and was a happy baby).

Don't blame yourself. It's not you, or your milk supply. But maybe she needs checked out for reflux, allergies or EE?

My DS is much better after taking meds for reflux and being on Neocate (an elemental formula high in calories) for the last year. And I still nurse him too. He actually opens his mouth wide to eat now. Before he would keep it tight shut or just take in one or two peas, or a bite of a cracker, or only opened his mouth to nurse. I would have done anything to make him eat in the bad old days and I spent huge sums on tempting him with different foods. A visit to the dietician helped give some ideas about making his food more high-calorie (mainly adding olive oil to everything!). But he just wasn't able or ready to eat because of the reflux.

I'm telling you my story in the hope it gives you some ideas and comfort.
Good luck!
 
#4 ·
Gluten intolerance (and sometimes celiac) is often associated with failure to grow and gain weight properly. It can definitely be other foods as well. Food intolerances or allergies can make little ones feel yucky, often in ways they can't communicate, and poor appetite is a common symptom.

Since she's already eating gluten, I'd try to get a blood test done for celiac disease (the test is very accurate, but only if you are eating gluten). After that, I'd remove the top 4 intolerance foods from both your diet and hers, and see what happens (gluten, dairy, soy, corn).

I know you have said her appetite decreased since starting the probiotics, and are still seeing poop issues. You started the multidec drops at the same time. I can't find them online, can you post a list of ingredients? (All ingredients, including the inactive ones). It's possible she's having a reaction to one or more ingredients in the drops.
 
#5 ·
I'm so sorry Mamma! I've been there with the low supply issues and it's so stressful. Dom was the only thing that helped me....make sure you're taking a high enough dose. Check out www.kellymom.com for proper dosaging if you haven't already. Also, pump right after and in between nursings to help stimulate an increase in supply.

Babies do NOT have to throw up at all with reflux. Silent reflux is just that...no spitting up, sometimes no crying with it, etc. Basically the acid comes up into the esophageous and they swallow it back down. It doesn't necessarily come all the way up. But, it's still painful and causes inflammation and pain that is usually associated with eating. Have you ever heard her burp and it sounds a little wet or anything like that?? That's reflux usually. Does she burp alot in general? Some babies don't even do that though and still have reflux. It's definitely worth checking into or even trying a trial run on something like zantac, which won't hurt her if it's not reflux. With such a low weight and lack of interest in eating, I would definitely explore alot of things to see if there is a problem.

I also agree with pulling the top allergens and intolerances to see if that makes a difference as well.
 
#6 ·
Does she wake up a lot at night?

My DD2 didn't throw up either, with reflux. The good news is that the reflux went away when we identified the food triggers for her.

Flower Essences also helped kick-start my DD2's appetite last year.
 
#7 ·
She is allergic to dairy and we know this for a fact. Gluten - we don't know and somehow I don't think she is (or maybe I am in denial but I give her roti (naan-like without dairy) and she does just fine on it). I am off dairy, soy and corn.

She doesn't have wet burps. She does wake up 3-4 times at night but that is to nurse since these days her solid nursings are in the night (she snacks during the day).

kjbrown - which FEs jumpstart appetite, please?
 
#9 ·
You wouldn't necessarily see a specific reaction when she eats gluten, if it's an issue. My son's reactions were only behavioral, and plenty of kids only have reactions that are obvious in hindsight (like appetite or not growing well). I personally would be very hesitant to conclude gluten isn't a problem without doing a gluten free trial and then re-introducing, particularly if either you or she have problems with any other foods (there are very, very, very few kids on this board who have multiple food intolerances but do OK with gluten).

Alternative to a food trial, you can do a blood test for IgG intolerances (often not really accurate for children this young, but it might give you some clues). And before you remove gluten, you may choose to do a blood test for celiac (needs to be done when consuming gluten to be accurate), just to rule out that possibility.

Nursing well at night but not during the day can be sensory issues. Do you see other sensory seeking/avoiding behaviors (lots of twiddling during nursing, climbing on you a lot, always in motion, sensitive to bright lights/noise, bothered by certain clothes, preferring/avoiding foods of certain texture).
 
#10 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
Here is the composition of multidec drops

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/...dec_Drops.html
It doesn't say what the inactive ingredients are (e.g. liquid base, flavoring, sweetener - many time at least one of these is corn or soy) - does it say on your bottle?

Also, tocopherols is vitamin E, and that is usually derived from soy - could be an issue if your daughter is very soy sensitive.

Are you taking any supplements? Those could have trace dairy, soy, or corn as well. If you post links and/or ingredients lists, the mamas here are good at sniffing out potential allergens.
 
#11 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post

And before you remove gluten, you may choose to do a blood test for celiac (needs to be done when consuming gluten to be accurate), just to rule out that possibility.

Nursing well at night but not during the day can be sensory issues. Do you see other sensory seeking/avoiding behaviors (lots of twiddling during nursing, climbing on you a lot, always in motion, sensitive to bright lights/noise, bothered by certain clothes, preferring/avoiding foods of certain texture).
Would a negative on the blood draw for Celiac also rule out intolerence?

And - she exhibits none of the sensory seeking/avoiding behaviours you mentioned except she pinches me sometimes during nursing (co-incided with a bit of biting but probably its her molars).

If I remove gluten and reintroduce....how many weeks worth of trial would be satisfactory?
Supposing I removed it and saw no changes - say.....then when can I restart and conclude the trial done?
 
#13 ·
I was hoping for some supplements info or digestive enzymes or FEs names for my DD...to increase her appetite.
If I have to supp Zinc...what other deficiences should I be mindful of ? Do CaMg supps go hand in hand with Zinc or am I talking through my hat?

Please suggest.
 
#14 ·
Supplement Ingredients:

Multidec: Sorbitil Syrup, glycerin, propylene glycol, emulsifying agent (433), zinc sulphate, citric acid, disodium edta, vitamins, antioxidant(320), sodium benzoate and purified water.

Vit D3 (I take): soybean oil, gelatin, veg glycerin and pur.water.

EPO: gelatin, glycerin, pur.water

Caltrate: Calcium carbonate, pregelatinized corn starch, mag oxide
contains <2% of acaccia, cholecalciferol (D3), copper sulfate, corn starch, croscarmellose sodium, fd&c blue no 1 aluminium lake, red no 40 aluminium lake, yellow no 6 aluminium lake, hypromellose, mag stearate, manganese sulfate, medium-chain triglycerides, microcrystalline cellulose, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, sucrose, titanium dioxide, tocopherols, triacetin, tribasic calcium phosphate, zinc oxide.
 
#15 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
Would a negative on the blood draw for Celiac also rule out intolerence?

And - she exhibits none of the sensory seeking/avoiding behaviours you mentioned except she pinches me sometimes during nursing (co-incided with a bit of biting but probably its her molars).

If I remove gluten and reintroduce....how many weeks worth of trial would be satisfactory?
Supposing I removed it and saw no changes - say.....then when can I restart and conclude the trial done?
You can be negative for celiac and still be gluten intolerant. For a gluten trial, I'd suggest 4 weeks, others might say longer. In your case, you'd be looking for growth, weight gain, appetite improvement - and those might take longer to see change than sleep issues, or behaviors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
I was hoping for some supplements info or digestive enzymes or FEs names for my DD...to increase her appetite.
If I have to supp Zinc...what other deficiences should I be mindful of ? Do CaMg supps go hand in hand with Zinc or am I talking through my hat?

Please suggest.
I think what you're hearing is that most of us think there are things to be trying other than supps or digestive enzymes - not that those might not be a good thing, but there are more obvious things that generally cause the symptoms you are seeing.

Supping zinc at anything under about 15mg/day isn't going to be an issue for any other nutrients - but she may not need it. Do you see signs of undigested food in her poop, or pink pee/poop after eating beets, or mouthing/chewing on things a lot?

It would make sense for you to take a good trace minerals supp, to make sure your breast milk is solid in mineral content - I like Thorne trace minerals, and then extra mag.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
Supplement Ingredients:

Multidec: Sorbitil Syrup, glycerin, propylene glycol, emulsifying agent (433), zinc sulphate, citric acid, disodium edta, vitamins, antioxidant(320), sodium benzoate and purified water.

Vit D3 (I take): soybean oil, gelatin, veg glycerin and pur.water.

EPO: gelatin, glycerin, pur.water

Caltrate: Calcium carbonate, pregelatinized corn starch, mag oxide
contains <2% of acaccia, cholecalciferol (D3), copper sulfate, corn starch, croscarmellose sodium, fd&c blue no 1 aluminium lake, red no 40 aluminium lake, yellow no 6 aluminium lake, hypromellose, mag stearate, manganese sulfate, medium-chain triglycerides, microcrystalline cellulose, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, sucrose, titanium dioxide, tocopherols, triacetin, tribasic calcium phosphate, zinc oxide.
The multidec has edta in it, that's a metals chelator. It also pulls minerals from the body, particularly calcium. I wouldn't give those to a small child. The sorbitol is most likely from corn, and also the citric acid. I don't know if you give them on an empty stomach, but zinc on an empty stomach can easily cause stomach upset (which causes my DS to stop eating).

For your D3, many people who react to soy also react to soybean oil (if it's an intolerance, vs. an allergy, when it's usually only soy protein that is the issue). I know lots of people say the oil is fine, but for most on this forum, it's not. The veg. glycerin could be corn, as well.

Your caltrate supp has several corn ingredients (corn starch) and food colorings, which my DS reacts very badly to. Also, it's a very poorly absorbed form of calcium - you'd likely find you get more benefits from one that isn't calcium carbonate. Same for the magnesium - oxide is a very poorly absorbed form, I'd take glycinate, malate, or citrate.

If you've been taking the D and caltrate for a while, it's possible your daughter's symptoms are as simple as a soy or corn reaction. You might try subbing those out for more allergen friendly replacements before you take any further steps, see if there is any improvement. And I'd stop the multidec drops.
 
#16 ·
Thank you mamafish9. I will stop the multidec and change my caltrate. Is there a calcium brand you can recommend?

Also - I will try eliminating gluten (after first thinking about a celiac test).....

My resistance comes from - we are east Indians ....and gluten sensitivity in a long line of generations of our people is unheard of......as a matter of fact gluten allergy in India is an unheard of thing. Barely 1-2% of kids in India have diary allergy and giving cow milk to babies is common........

....this all is very confusing to me.
 
#17 ·
Just to add that my DS has sensory problems with eating. He attended a feeding and swallowing clinic and we found he had premature slippage, which was making him gag and choke a little bit. But not enough to have really worried me -- it was the pediatrician that wanted me to check out eating problems along with the reflux (apparently they go together, as does his asthma because of his potential to aspirate). BTW, he has only thrown up maybe twice in his life, as a result of eating chocolate (he's allergic to it). Silent reflux means no obvious symptoms of discomfort. Perhaps press for an anti-reflux med as a trial and see if it makes a difference (this is the first strategy if EE is suspected too, which should be seriously considered because of the allergies in my view). My DS is on Nexium and it took a long while to work: maybe 2-3 mnths before we saw a difference. But it's a huge difference now.
 
#18 ·
Hugs to you, I have been there with my DD! She was under 18 lbs at 12 months, only after that we started taking foods out and she started gaining a little better.

Yes, I second mamafish9, the intolerance to gluten could be a hidden one, my DD reacts to it 2-3 days later, I have a friend whose son reacted 3+ days later. Anyway, my post goes into a different direction, one that you mentioned too --enzymes. I am currently reading a very interesting book: Enzymes for Autism and other neurological conditions, by Karen DeFelice and the author is of opinion that enzymes are (at least part of) the answer for food allergies and intolerances. Indeed, as we took more foods out, my DD started becoming intolerant to more foods, her gut never truly healed, even though we gave her supps etc. I think you should look into digestive enzymes, there are a couple of threads on this forum about them to give you an idea about them; also this book is a great resource (although I do not fully agree with her explanation to as to why it's good to start slowly on enzymes). We have just started taking them with *every* meal; until now, I was giving them only if they had some offensive foods. Somewhere in this book it says that in one study 50% of kids saw major improvement in 2 weeks and 80% in 3 weeks. I really think that once her gut starts to heal, her appetite will increase (I don't think it is a behavioral problem, I think the kids are really telling us that they can't eat bc. it hurts them). I am also hoping that this works, it has been a long journey for us too..
 
#19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
Would a negative on the blood draw for Celiac also rule out intolerence?
Nope. DD2 and I both had negative celiac tests, and both of us are gluten intolerant (hers showed up on ALCAT intolerance testing; I just pulled it out of my diet and noticed a change). For my DS, he had 3 days of withdrawal symptoms from gluten (begging for it) but some people don't have the withdrawal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
Thank you mamafish9. I will stop the multidec and change my caltrate. Is there a calcium brand you can recommend?
We don't actually supplement calcium. We do it through food (bone broth, broccoli, greens, salmon, etc.)

Quote:
My resistance comes from - we are east Indians ....and gluten sensitivity in a long line of generations of our people is unheard of......as a matter of fact gluten allergy in India is an unheard of thing. Barely 1-2% of kids in India have diary allergy and giving cow milk to babies is common........

....this all is very confusing to me.
Forgive my geography ignorance, but what is east Indian? I know West Indies is Caribbean, so is east Indian like India? Because my SIL's first child had a lot of food intolerances (she's half India Indian) and my soon-to-be SIL is all Indian, and she is gluten intolerant. If it's another Indian then tell me so I can learn, since I haven't heard that term before.
 
#22 ·
There have been several of us trying pancreatic enzymes with our kids with a lot of success lately, and pine nut oil. Pancreatic enzymes don't taste great, so they're tougher with little ones - can you get a good source of high quality pine nut oil?
 
#24 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post
India.



I didn't want to be confused with native Indian.
Okay. I just didn't want to jump to conclusions. It is true that food intolerances vary by geography. I've heard that Asian people are more likely to be allergic/intolerant to rice and things that are eaten more frequently there. But as I've said, I know two people of Indian descent who have food intolerances, one of which is gluten. I'm just saying it's not impossible, that's all. Have you tried food journaling to see if there's any pattern?

For us, my DS had the Genova stool test, and it showed which enzymes he needed, and what good bacteria he was missing, etc. We used the PayAssured program so it was "only" $150. His/our osteopath ordered it. And the enzymes helped immensely.

And for my DD2, after we removed all the foods she was intolerant to, she went from 50th percentile for both height/weight (my kids are generally on the upper end of the scale) to 75th percentile for both, but it took some time.
 
#25 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by kjbrown92 View Post
Okay. I just didn't want to jump to conclusions. It is true that food intolerances vary by geography. I've heard that Asian people are more likely to be allergic/intolerant to rice and things that are eaten more frequently there. But as I've said, I know two people of Indian descent who have food intolerances, one of which is gluten. I'm just saying it's not impossible, that's all. Have you tried food journaling to see if there's any pattern?

For us, my DS had the Genova stool test, and it showed which enzymes he needed, and what good bacteria he was missing, etc. We used the PayAssured program so it was "only" $150. His/our osteopath ordered it. And the enzymes helped immensely.

And for my DD2, after we removed all the foods she was intolerant to, she went from 50th percentile for both height/weight (my kids are generally on the upper end of the scale) to 75th percentile for both, but it took some time.
What enzymes were they? And what was the age of your DS when he took them?
 
#26 ·
The enzymes that he takes are specific for what he needs based on his stool testing. I don't think enzymes are necessarily a one size fits all. My DS started taking them when he was 9yo. My DD2 has been taking pretty big capsules (like Mg glycinate) since she was 3yo.
 
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