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#121 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 02:24 PM
 
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All those books, Langer's, Starr's, Barnes' address that.

Kharrazian's approach is just different than theirs as he uses thyroid hormone as last resort. To use his approach you'd have to go to a dr. that has been trained by him, it's very complex. Wonder if Dr. R has heard of him since he's a chiro too.
From the 5 minute video it sounded like the "crux" of his approach is assuming the person has an autoimmune disease - hashi's that's causing the problem. Is that not the case? At any rate, I guess I'll find out when I get the book.

BTW, can you have an autoimmune thyroid disorder if your thyroid has been removed? I'm sure the answer is no.

Can you still have thyroid issues if your thyroid has been removed? I'm guessing yes, because you could still have the same uptake & utilization issues, right?

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#122 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 02:25 PM
 
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Sweetbreads and pine nut oil. They're both totally mild, and not offensive at all. And POWERFUL, at least for me. You could purée the sweetbreads and mix into a burger? He might even eat them straight.
http://sierrafarmslamb.blogspot.com/...%20Sweetbreads
Where do you get yours?

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#123 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 02:44 PM
 
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Where do you get yours?
Sweetbreads are from that guy, he's local for me
PNO is from http://www.siberiantigernaturals.com/orderproducts.htm or http://www.selinanaturally.com/Extra...-P2064C23.aspx

Ds is teething. Again. He's 5m1w. 3 teeth already, and it's a tossup between two which will come in next (like, tonight) with a third (6th!) right behind.

For Dr K's book, the first half is all autoimmune, but then he breaks down non-autoimmune 'normal' lab tests into his own normal ranges and says which patterns to look for to figure out the cause of your sx.

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#124 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 02:48 PM
 
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Sweetbreads are from that guy, he's local for me
PNO is from http://www.siberiantigernaturals.com/orderproducts.htm or http://www.selinanaturally.com/Extra...-P2064C23.aspx

Lucky you. Too tired to find sweetbreads locally right now.

Ds is teething. Again. He's 5m1w. 3 teeth already, and it's a tossup between two which will come in next (like, tonight) with a third (6th!) right behind.

For Dr K's book, the first half is all autoimmune, but then he breaks down non-autoimmune 'normal' lab tests into his own normal ranges and says which patterns to look for to figure out the cause of your sx.
That's good to know. I was a little worried. So I've got two books to read now. Hopefully they'll yield some answers.

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#125 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 03:07 PM
 
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...
This crave-protein--need-pancreatic-support is interesting. While I don't *crave* protein, usually, I *can* eat a lot of it when it is available. When DS was 6 mos, a chiropractor did muscle(?) testing on me and said that I need pancreatic support. He had me taking digestive enzymes, but I wouldn't take the other supplements he suggested/tried to sell me because I was trying to figure out DS's allergies at that point, and I didn't want to confuse the picture even more.

Are you suggesting that there are homeopathic pancreatic supports? Or should I be trying something else?

And DS protein desire & intake is high, as I mentioned above. [Although the desire for protein seems to run in DH's family. DH's brother eats only protein (meat & beans, and rice; he is over 60, cholesterol is fine, even though he smokes & drinks). DH does best on lots of protein.]
I can't say I actually CRAVE protein. I tend to find myself much more attracted to veggies and fruits. But I think that is mostly a matter of having grown up with a lot of veggies and a little meat. This way of eating, with so much meat, is still weird to me.

So it isn't that I WANT the meat, but that I am healthier when I eat it.

The naturopath put me on Pancreatrophin (I think that's how it is spelled) based on the fact that when he placed it into my energy field my body was happy, and without it my body wasn't.

After maybe 2 months of that, my body was perfectly happy without anything. And I felt great. And baby-lust kicked in, which I took as a good sign. Then when I got pregnant, he gave me some supplements just as extra. And then a few weeks into pregnancy, I started feeling the blood sugar issues a bit again, and my body wanted the Pancreatrophin again (in much smaller amounts).

I had to leave the naturopath when I moved. But he gave me a recommendation for another one near here who went to school with him and uses the same method. She is also a chiro, so that kills 2 birds with one stone. But I haven't been to see her yet. At this point I am just plodding along with the same dosage because when I skip it (which I've done for over a week at a time) I feel worse, and when I take it I start to feel better again.

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#126 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 03:47 PM
 
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Jane, are you on any of Susan Owen's lists (sulfur stories, trying low oxalates, ets)? At the end of june of this year, she sent out a summary of what she got out of the mitochondrial disease foundation conference she went to that was really interesting. What *I* got out of her summary is that exercise really, really matters. I'm kind of on an exercise is important kick, though, seeing it everywhere. I think it's my next big piece. If only I could figure out how to fit it in, timewise... pm me your email if you want me to forward you what she sent out.

eta: Those doing grain-free... Sugarcane too? (just say yes) I'm getting serious about low carbing, and now a huge percent of my (low) carbs are from sugar. How wrong is that?

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#127 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 04:39 PM
 
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Oh man... I just looked at the allowable foods for my NAET treatment today (B-complex), and tomorrow is going to SUCK. I can eat rice, well-cooked fish (which of course I can't have more than 1 serving of because of mercury ), cauliflower, and french fries. This should be interesting. We will definitely be eating dinner before our appointment!!

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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#128 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 04:42 PM
 
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Oh man... I just looked at the allowable foods for my NAET treatment today (B-complex), and tomorrow is going to SUCK. I can eat rice, well-cooked fish (which of course I can't have more than 1 serving of because of mercury ), cauliflower, and french fries. This should be interesting. We will definitely be eating dinner before our appointment!!
mmmmm. French fries.

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#129 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 04:48 PM
 
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Oh man... I just looked at the allowable foods for my NAET treatment today (B-complex), and tomorrow is going to SUCK. I can eat rice, well-cooked fish (which of course I can't have more than 1 serving of because of mercury ), cauliflower, and french fries. This should be interesting. We will definitely be eating dinner before our appointment!!
What about salmon or sardines or anchovies or other low-mercury fish?

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#130 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 06:50 PM
 
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That seems like a stretch, at least looking at our food budget! Lots of beans...

Is this a situation where you might cut it in stages, and also start trialing some foods that might make doing this easier? (Cheap starches, beans, flours, etc). Source local bulk meats (this really helped cut our food costs down). Try some digestive enzymes and see if that causes them to eat less?
The "local" meats around here that I've looked at are about $7/lb. That's why I was getting the pasture-fed beef from TX. Even with shipping, it was a lot cheaper. But we've gone to conventional meats. So I'm thinking for meat, nothing more than $2/lb. So legs & thighs are cheap here too (89 cents/lb). I can get chicken breasts for $1.49/lb on sale, so I just have to look, and a huge pork loin for $1.99/lb, again I just have to keep an eye out. And I'm going to cut fresh fruit back to bananas and apples (even though both of those have to be rotated) and if anything is less than $1/lb. Veggies will do less variety too I think (luckily in the last couple days I froze a bunch of green beans and tomatoes from my mother's garden, and my mother shredded zucchini for me which I froze, like 16 cups of it). It's all the specialty items that kill me: sweet potato flour, buckwheat flour, pasta (3 of us are gluten-free so pasta nights are cheap for half the family). My mother also planted a slew of potatoes, so I'll have those free for a while, and the butternut squash are almost ready as well, and those last for a while over the winter.

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Ugh. I don't envy you that task. I've been trying to figure out cost cutting measures for months. Our grocery bill is STILL at $800, using conventional produce and meat, minimal specialty foods and normally feeding everyone besides DS1 gluten food items. I use hamburger for nearly every beef meal, chicken thighs and drums (least expensive cuts here) for almost every chicken meal, and I buy pork loins when they're on sale to cut into thin "chops"- even on sale, this gets me 3 or 4 "chop" meals plus half of a pulled pork meal (I use 2 "butt ends"- pieces too small to bother trying to cut- for pulled pork) rather than paying the same price for a family pack of bone-in chops which only yields 2 meals.
The only thing I can think of to decrease costs on the meat end of things is to buy whole chickens and cut them up myself- and maybe mix my own sausages from ground pork for the 2 meals in 5 weeks that we have sausages. Also, I need to figure out some tasty legume/pulse dishes.
I could scale back on pasta even more than I do. We presently have it 2x's/week- once for lunch, once at dinner. Lunch is gf pasta for everyone though and I have 1 meal for supper that's gf for everyone. I guess I could change that too.
I think the real killer might be breakfast. I really need to get a waffle iron and quit with cereal every second day. And I need to start making your bread!
Also, if DS2 and DS3 were using cloth or potty trained, it would drop our costs by about $120/mth. However, as we move towards dropping the cost of diapers, we increase how much those little mouths eat. So how much "more" we'll *actually* have is debatable.
Blah blah blah. Anyway, there's a basic cost analysis of our food budget.

eta: And I can't even begin to imagine it being this low without potatoes and/or rice.
We don't do a lot of cereal. Eggs are cheap which we do a lot of, but DS either has a can of chickpeas or a can of corned beef every morning.

And I had just gotten addicted to the Namaste pizza dough (just as bread it's fantastic to dip in fried eggs. I've got to figure out how to do that one myself).

And my eye has been twitching on and off all day....

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#131 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 07:14 PM
 
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Oh man... I just looked at the allowable foods for my NAET treatment today (B-complex), and tomorrow is going to SUCK. I can eat rice, well-cooked fish (which of course I can't have more than 1 serving of because of mercury ), cauliflower, and french fries. This should be interesting. We will definitely be eating dinner before our appointment!!
Mmmm.... I love french fries. My deep fryer is at the lake though... maybe this weekend... For rice, do you do rice vinegar, rice flour, rice pasta, etc. for variety? I wonder if you could deep fry cauliflower with some water-rice flour coating... what's with me and the fried foods?

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#132 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 07:24 PM
 
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The "local" meats around here that I've looked at are about $7/lb. That's why I was getting the pasture-fed beef from TX. Even with shipping, it was a lot cheaper. But we've gone to conventional meats.
We pay those kinds of prices in the store or buying one meal at a time.

I got beefalo from a local farmer (so pastured, no hormones/antibiotics, etc) for $3/lb for a quarter - I think it ended up being about 80lbs, 1/2 hamburger, 1/2 steaks and ribs and stuff. We got a ton of bones for free, and turned most of the roasts into hamburger.

Same deal on chicken, I got little roasting pasture raised chickens, about 10 of them I think, for $3/lb.

Some places around here are way more expensive, so it was worth it to call around.

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#133 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 07:40 PM
 
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What about salmon or sardines or anchovies or other low-mercury fish?
Yeah, I was thinking I would go with salmon, but I still don't want to have too much, ya know? Plus, DD is allergic to salmon and I'm a little nervous to cook it in the house. Might have to wrap it and do it outside on the bbq.

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Mmmm.... I love french fries. My deep fryer is at the lake though... maybe this weekend... For rice, do you do rice vinegar, rice flour, rice pasta, etc. for variety? I wonder if you could deep fry cauliflower with some water-rice flour coating... what's with me and the fried foods?
That's funny- fried foods (fish/potatoes) are actually on the list of allowable foods. Like "deep fried fish". I was thinking- what on earth am I going to fry them with? I guess rice flour? That just doesn't sound that great.

Yeah- I can do rice pasta, but with what on it?? I could use just olive oil, but again.... bleh. I emailed the doc to see if she thought lamb broth would be ok, because then I could at least have "soup" with rice noodles, but she doesn't sound like she approves. According to the guide book, NO meat. But I looked up beef broth nutritional data, and it's only got a tiny bit of folate, no other B vitamins. And it actually has less folate than is listed for rice, which IS an allowable food. So I'm

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#134 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 07:42 PM
 
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Oh yeah- I actually logged on for a reason...

Is there any reason that a calcium supplement would make my joints ache? I am SO sore today, for absolutely no reason. My hips are hurting so bad I can hardly walk, and my knees and back aren't much better. I just realized that I started taking my calcium supplement again today, after being out of it for a week. Not sure if that's related...

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#135 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 08:18 PM
 
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Serial posting...

Ok, wth? Salmon has plenty of B vitamins. Are they all lost when it's "well cooked" or deep-fried?? Because I'm not supposed to eat ANY meat, but fish is ok (but not raw or broiled.) I'm so confused. I'm not supposed to eat anything with B vitamins for 25 hours. Here are the lists:

Don't eat: whole grain products, fruits, veggies, meats, dairy, anything with B vitamins. Avoid grasses, plants, trees, flowers, walking in the garden, etc.

Allowed: cooked white rice (well washed before & after cooking), cooked white pasta, califlower raw or cooked, well cooked or deep fried fish, salt, white sugar, black coffee, french fries, purified water.

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#136 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 08:51 PM
 
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I can't even pretend to have a clue, cs.
totally wore out, spent most of the day raking the yard outside with ds2 and ds3. sil dropped off her outside toys yesterday for us- she only wants her toy kitchen back when she gets a place again. kids had fun. ds2's asleep on the couch now though

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#137 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 09:04 PM
 
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Can kids really be low in brain chemicals? Should I spring for the amino acid test for her? Or just try supplementing some 5-htp? And can "exciting" but fun events run down their seratonin?
heck yes. I see it in my oldest.


Hello everyone. I've been doing well, but was taking a break from the computer a bit, at least related to health and healing. I think I'm back.

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#138 of 755 Old 09-09-2010, 10:53 PM
 
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Glad to see your doing well m2s. It was nice to see your pregnant belly pics on FB.

Yay for outdoor toys and yardwork JR!! I pulled a stump out today- BY MYSELF. Holy crap I am worn out. I did not have the energy for that. Oh well. At least it's done, and now all I have to do is level that side of the yard so that the swingset can go up. woo hoo!

I've decided that I'm eating the bone broth, and I don't care. I think it will be fine, since I'm trying to be really good about doing our balancing massage points. (You're supposed to do those every 2 hours, but extra if you mess up with your foods.)

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#139 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 12:15 AM
 
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Glad to see your doing well m2s. It was nice to see your pregnant belly pics on FB.

Yay for outdoor toys and yardwork JR!! I pulled a stump out today- BY MYSELF. Holy crap I am worn out. I did not have the energy for that. Oh well. At least it's done, and now all I have to do is level that side of the yard so that the swingset can go up. woo hoo!

I've decided that I'm eating the bone broth, and I don't care. I think it will be fine, since I'm trying to be really good about doing our balancing massage points. (You're supposed to do those every 2 hours, but extra if you mess up with your foods.)
holy work horses, Batman! go you! I hope you sleep wonderfully and awake refreshed. Also that the rest of the project goes smoothly and quickly!

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#140 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 01:31 AM
 
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CS, I'm pretty sure B vites are heat sensitive, so that's why they specify well cooked fish, etc. Thinking the B vites in broth would be very, very dead...

M2S, nice to "see" you!

Pick battles big enough to matter, small enough to win. ~Jonathan Kozel
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#141 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 02:03 AM
 
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The whole stump? What kind of tools do you use for that?

I figure the whole NAET stuff is voodoo anyway (not saying it doesn't work, just that no one really knows *how* it works) so follow what they say and don't try to make rhyme or reason of it. Some b vites are very heat sensitive, some aren't at all.

Amy

Missed bedtime by dd. She was cranky, tired, exhausted, and hadn't eaten dinner. I insisted that *I* was going to eat dinner before story/bedtime. Apparently that was the window. At least she ate?

Can teething cause spitting up? Ds is miserable

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#142 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 02:16 AM
 
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I want to supp iron and B12 to my 15 mo DD...... no indication other than poor weight gain and my intuition.

Can I give her the adult floradix with herbs which has some yeast in it or is there a baby version?

Can someone recommend a B12 supplement that is liquid and great. Thanks so much
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#143 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 03:30 AM
 
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Yes, Shannon, teething can cause spitting up. It's the only time I've ever seen DS3 spit up besides when I've eaten soy or milk (and when he was sick).
Bed soon? DS1's birthday tomorrow. 11 already?!

Wife of Michael , SAHM to Aristotle 09/99 Raphael 06/07 and Marius 05/09 Known only in dreams but never forgotten: Euphrates Decluttering 290/2010
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#144 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 12:03 PM
 
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From the 5 minute video it sounded like the "crux" of his approach is assuming the person has an autoimmune disease - hashi's that's causing the problem. Is that not the case? At any rate, I guess I'll find out when I get the book.

BTW, can you have an autoimmune thyroid disorder if your thyroid has been removed? I'm sure the answer is no.

Can you still have thyroid issues if your thyroid has been removed? I'm guessing yes, because you could still have the same uptake & utilization issues, right?
He says ai causes most of it. I've also read case studies that antibodies come and go so I've always got that on my back burner for DS especially. He's had some anti tpo which concerned me. I don't know enough to know if some, even though below range, is an issue or not.

Have no idea re: ai thyroid disorder and removal of thyroid gland, but I assume that something will still go on immune wise since there are sx that happen all over the body? And the theory with high doses of hormone is that it is supposed to stop the attack but I dont really understand how more hormone stops it.

Yes if your thyroid has been removed you need to be on thyroid hormone, and yes, the uptake and utilization issue still applies... although presumably your symptoms would be treated seriously and hopefully the dr. would just up the hormone. This is a big issue if the standard T4 Synthroid treatment is used b/c conversion to T3 might be impaired. Sx will still be there, but a lot of drs treat by lab numbers only.
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#145 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 12:05 PM
 
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So what ratio am I looking for with respect to free t3 & reverse t3? It doesn't say. Just refers you to the book which i do not own.

So, this is what I've got so far:

According to him I'm low in b12 & magnesium (no surprise) and may be low in iron and I may be hypothyroid even though all my test results are "normal".
RT3 info
http://thyroid-rt3.com/
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#146 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 12:35 PM
 
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holy work horses, Batman! go you! I hope you sleep wonderfully and awake refreshed. Also that the rest of the project goes smoothly and quickly!
Uggghhhhhhh. I spent the rest of the day hardly being able to walk, I was so achy. But I'm a little better today. Too bad I have to stay away from grasses & trees and stuff all day, or I might get more done. Oh well. The house needs some serious catching up.

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CS, I'm pretty sure B vites are heat sensitive, so that's why they specify well cooked fish, etc. Thinking the B vites in broth would be very, very dead...
That's what I'm thinking. I had some last night, and it was delish.

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The whole stump? What kind of tools do you use for that?
Yep, the whole thing. It really wasn't a very big one- luckily the roots only went out a couple feet. (It was a young cherry tree.) I just used a fork & shovel to dig around the base of the stump until I located each root, then dug around the root until there was enough cleared that I could pull it out (they were pretty thin for the most part.) Then I just pulled and pushed and pulled some more, and popped it out! And got very dirty in the process.

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Bed soon? DS1's birthday tomorrow. 11 already?!
Happy birthday Aris!!

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
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#147 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 12:46 PM
 
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ok, something is going wrong in my conversion & math b/c my ration is like .0012

Free t3 2.91 pg/mL which is .291 ng/dL (right?)
T3 Rev 23 ng/dL

so the radio ft3/rt3 = .291/23 = .001265

So did I do that correctly? If so I'm in deep do do.

Ok, one other question. It seems this assumes that you produce inadequate levels of t4? Otherwise how would you rid yourself of t4 just by going off the hormone? What if you are producing t4? Simply going on t3 might just complicate things.

ETA: So I need to raise my ferritin level & straighten out my cortisol first? I've tried straightening out my cortisol & it isn't working.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#148 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 01:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chlobo View Post
ok, something is going wrong in my conversion & math b/c my ration is like .0012

Free t3 2.91 pg/mL which is .291 ng/dL (right?)
T3 Rev 23 ng/dL

so the radio ft3/rt3 = .291/23 = .001265

So did I do that correctly? If so I'm in deep do do.

Ok, one other question. It seems this assumes that you produce inadequate levels of t4? Otherwise how would you rid yourself of t4 just by going off the hormone? What if you are producing t4? Simply going on t3 might just complicate things.

ETA: So I need to raise my ferritin level & straighten out my cortisol first? I've tried straightening out my cortisol & it isn't working.
No, you multiply by 10 not divide. But that would mean your ratio is still close to 29/23=1.26 when it should be 20.

Reverse T3 is only made from T4. So "a theory" is that you give T3 only to shut down the body's production of T4 (when the pituitary sees enough T3 in circulation it will stop signalling production of T4). Then you continue to take T3 only (has to be synthetic, the natural forms such as Armour etc. contain T4). Then the Reverse T3 gradually clears receptors and the active T3 finally works.

What I haven't spent the time on is exactly why the body produces Reverse T3. I've only seen nebulous descriptions its either "stress" or "genetics". It's gotta be more specific than that.

And I wonder if this could be the main reason why some people need very high doses of Armour etc. to feel better and maybe that time tested approach is just simpler. Because T3 only dosing is very very sensitive. You absolutely cannot miss a day and some even say you cannot miss the same pill time everyday, or dose up to 4-5x per day.

What are you doing for cortisol? I'm really up in the air about adrenal only support. Because adrenals can prop up a failing thyroid, but only for so long.

The ferritin seems like a big big factor... 70-90 appears to be the target range when hypo sx start resolving. I'm nowhere near that.
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#149 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 01:29 PM
 
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What I haven't spent the time on is exactly why the body produces Reverse T3. I've only seen nebulous descriptions its either "stress" or "genetics". It's gotta be more specific than that.
Ok duh, forgot I read this.
Typical for me lately, major brain fog is a sx I'd like resolved!!!
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#150 of 755 Old 09-10-2010, 01:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
No, you multiply by 10 not divide. But that would mean your ratio is still close to 29/23=1.26 when it should be 20.

Reverse T3 is only made from T4. So "a theory" is that you give T3 only to shut down the body's production of T4 (when the pituitary sees enough T3 in circulation it will stop signalling production of T4). Then you continue to take T3 only (has to be synthetic, the natural forms such as Armour etc. contain T4). Then the Reverse T3 gradually clears receptors and the active T3 finally works.

What I haven't spent the time on is exactly why the body produces Reverse T3. I've only seen nebulous descriptions its either "stress" or "genetics". It's gotta be more specific than that.

And I wonder if this could be the main reason why some people need very high doses of Armour etc. to feel better and maybe that time tested approach is just simpler. Because T3 only dosing is very very sensitive. You absolutely cannot miss a day and some even say you cannot miss the same pill time everyday, or dose up to 4-5x per day.

What are you doing for cortisol? I'm really up in the air about adrenal only support. Because adrenals can prop up a failing thyroid, but only for so long.

The ferritin seems like a big big factor... 70-90 appears to be the target range when hypo sx start resolving. I'm nowhere near that.
My ferritin was 33 and now its 51. But I haven't been treating it. Just eating more red meat now than during my elimination diet phase. So I guess its good its going up. I am considering floradix for the iron since I have it. Although maybe I should try the stuff you recommended.

I tried all sorts of adrenal supplements and none of them did anything. I tried 5-htp and it didn't help although my ND (now) thinks the dose wasn't high enough.

However, something has changed for the worse for me. Whereas I used to have "some" trouble sleeping, now I always seem too. I never feel like I reach deep sleep. Like its twilight sleep or something. My ND thinks its the b12 I started taking (because I have those pesky genes that say I need tons for my methylation to work). So she thinks I should back off those a little & try a higher dose of 5-htp.

In the meantime, I just sent in a urine amino acid test.

Bsically, I'm throwing a lot of mud at the wall and seeing if anything sticks (nothing so far).

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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