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Old 04-08-2011, 05:14 PM
 
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He had a very bad experience last night.  He had not had a bm since Sunday so I gave him an epsom salt bath.  After playing for awhile in the tub, he suddenly starting scratching and crying that his bottom itched and he had to poop.  By the time I was able to get him out of the tub, dried and into a diaper he had scratched himself to the point of bleeding.  I tried so hard not to let him scratch.  He then had multiple liquid bms for about the next 30 minutes.  Every time he had a bm I had to change him immediately because his bottom burned and itched so bad.   I think we went through 6-7 diapers.   He also passed a lot of gas.   He was crying the whole time.  Finally, when he was done, I used a prescription antifunal cream from the ped because I did not know what else to do to help him.  He had instant relief of the itching.  He has been much better today with much less gas and no abdominal distention and 2 tiny liquidy bms.   I have a friend irl who uses homeopathy for her kids and suggested using sulphur or lycopodium.  I know nothing about these so am hesitant.   His MD gave us (we purchased) a homeopathic cream that has candida parapsilosis and penicillum frequentans.  I am supposed to be massaging this into his abdomen 3 times per day but it hasn't made its way into our routine yet.  I am definitely going to try the castor oil packs and am planning to wait before I increase the probiotic just to see how he does.  I agree he needs to increase eventually but just want to go slow at this point.  We all hate to see him suffer so and this has been so stressful for my girls too.  They were both crying last night seeing him.  greensad.gif


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Old 04-09-2011, 08:29 PM
 
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Thought I'd update again as things seem to change by the minute over here... He had another episode of abdominal cramping and gas today.  I placed a castor oil pack across his abdomen and he sat and rocked in the chair for about 30 to 40 minutes with it in place while I fed him lunch.  Then he started playing and shortly there after had a large bm which was as close to "normal" consistency as he has every had in his life.  He was still a bit itchy after but not as bad as Thursday night.  So we are still holding strong at the starting dose of probiotic (25 bill cells) for the kids and 50 bill for me.  Everybody is still taking the clay 2x per day.  Hope you are all having a great weekend...

 

jennifer


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Old 04-09-2011, 10:55 PM
 
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:goodvibes, Jennifer, I don't have any advice, but I hope the rest of the weekend is smooth and easy. 


 

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Old 04-13-2011, 08:12 PM
 
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:goodvibes, Jennifer, I don't have any advice, but I hope the rest of the weekend is smooth and easy. 


 



Thanks!  He is doing much better now.  He has had a bm 2 days in a row with no itching, crying or trauma of any sort.  Consistency is good too.  He saw the PA at our doctor's office today and we are starting on some homeopathic remedies that will hopefully help too.  She is going to share our plan with the doctor who is on maternity leave until July and get back to me but she was encouraging of the clay and increased dose on the probiotics and attributed all of the above chaos to die-off..  so we continue to march forward.  he is now taking a rounded baby scoop of custom probiotics

 

jen

 


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Old 04-13-2011, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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sounds great!!!!

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Old 04-15-2011, 10:09 AM
 
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so "they" are starting to get with it as well:

 

"It is now clear that this microbial community is essentially another organ that plays a fundamental role in human physiology and disease."

 

http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/3/78/78ps12.abstract

 

I doubt that the paper is worth the electrons it would take for me to request it through interlibrary loan.

 

 


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Old 04-15-2011, 10:44 PM
 
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so, first of all, forgive me if these questions are answered elsewhere. i've read through most of this thread, but it's all kind of a blur now.

 

my main question is this: does the clay mop up enough of the die-off to make major probiotic doses safe during breastfeeding?

 

also, i'm comfortable w/probiotics and playing with the dosage, but with the clay, how much would you start a one year old on?
 

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Yup!  Cell salts and clay-mother's best friends!  Honestly, if you looked in my purse at any point you'd see what I carry, and have carried for years.  Don't leave home without 'em!  Cell salts, remedies, 2 tinctures, emergency/rescue essences and clay.  I usually have l liquid oxygen as well.  My bag isn't even all that big!

i'm curious to know how/for what you use the clay when out and about. and are there any good books you recommend for getting very familiar with the cell salts?

 

thanks!

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Old 04-16-2011, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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so, first of all, forgive me if these questions are answered elsewhere. i've read through most of this thread, but it's all kind of a blur now.

 

my main question is this: does the clay mop up enough of the die-off to make major probiotic doses safe during breastfeeding?

 

also, i'm comfortable w/probiotics and playing with the dosage, but with the clay, how much would you start a one year old on?
 


i'm curious to know how/for what you use the clay when out and about. and are there any good books you recommend for getting very familiar with the cell salts?

 

thanks!




Of course no one can give advice here, but I've not yet heard of a practitioner that is really cautious in any way with probiotics during breastfeeding-though I know many that utilize them for mama and baby.  I've never even heard of any really that use "support" when they do.  I don't like the idea of people being uncomfortable and I have a love affair with clay...so it's a natural progression for me!

 

My kids were taking at least 1/4 tsp each around a year.  Often more-if there was an exposure to allergens and whatnot.

 

In terms of clay in my purse (it is seriously in there) I have had many occasions to use it!  IN case of exposure to allergens, bug bites, bee stings, migraines, digestive upset (diarrhea/vomiting) diaper rashes..the list goes on and on.  I carry it and love it and talk about it constantly (and have for years-just look on MDC alone!) because it's inexpensive, safe, multi-purpose and practical.  Frankly, no home should be without it.  My love is and always will be pascalite, but there are many types of clay.  I think that's the gentlest, and when I say I gave my babies clay it was *always* pascalite.  Not because I felt others weren't safe or effective, but I love and trust pascalite.

 

Cell salts-there are a few good ones, but the most cost effective for starting out is the biochemic handbook.  It's maybe $4 and covers things well-but you can pop over to the cell salt thread in H&H proper and see how many are using them too.

 

HTH!

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Old 04-16-2011, 12:08 PM
 
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Of course no one can give advice here, but I've not yet heard of a practitioner that is really cautious in any way with probiotics during breastfeeding-though I know many that utilize them for mama and baby.  I've never even heard of any really that use "support" when they do.  I don't like the idea of people being uncomfortable and I have a love affair with clay...so it's a natural progression for me!

 

My kids were taking at least 1/4 tsp each around a year.  Often more-if there was an exposure to allergens and whatnot.

 

In terms of clay in my purse (it is seriously in there) I have had many occasions to use it!  IN case of exposure to allergens, bug bites, bee stings, migraines, digestive upset (diarrhea/vomiting) diaper rashes..the list goes on and on.  I carry it and love it and talk about it constantly (and have for years-just look on MDC alone!) because it's inexpensive, safe, multi-purpose and practical.  Frankly, no home should be without it.  My love is and always will be pascalite, but there are many types of clay.  I think that's the gentlest, and when I say I gave my babies clay it was *always* pascalite.  Not because I felt others weren't safe or effective, but I love and trust pascalite.

 

Cell salts-there are a few good ones, but the most cost effective for starting out is the biochemic handbook.  It's maybe $4 and covers things well-but you can pop over to the cell salt thread in H&H proper and see how many are using them too.

 

HTH!


thanks! i'm not concerned about general probiotic use during breastfeeding, but about really massive doses that could cause some serious die-off. i've used Klaire, Kirkman labs, and home-brewed kefir & kombucha throughout pregnancy and throughout my older child's 3 years of breastfeeding. but i have recently discovered a major gluten intolerance and possible celiac, so i'm realizing there's some serious gut healing to do. i'm taking a normal dose of Custom Probiotics, but i'd love to really ramp it  up. 

 

thanks for the pascalite recommendation - i will check that out. and i'll find the cell salt thread, too. i have a few, but apart from using them for the symptoms listed on the Hyland's bottle, i'm not really sure how to use them. 

 

thanks for the quick response! 

 

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Old 04-19-2011, 12:19 PM
 
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Okay, so I have been following this thread from the beginning.  But I'm looking for some guidance how to optimally use the probiotics/clay, along with my normal regimen.

 

I purchased the 6 strain Custom Probiotics blend and have been giving it to myself and my two kids for about a month, ramping up accordingly.  Here's the thing:  I don't feel a difference in myself (ramped up to 1 scoop 2x/day = 400 billion cfu's), and haven't seen (with 3 yo DS - up to 2 child scoops 2x/day = 100 cfu's; he's still having soft, unformed stools) or heard (with 11 yo DD - up to 3 child scoops 2x/day = 150 cfu's) any changes either with them.  I do my best to take it on an empty stomach 1/2 hour before food, and I try to time it the same for the kids, but I've had to first dissolve the probiotic in a little water, then add a splash of juice to get them to drink it (HUUUGGGEEE fight, especially from 11 yo to take just dissolved in water).  Is adding the juice compromising the benefits of the probiotics?  Do I need to try different strains of probiotics, or try a different brand?  (Although it seems that Custom Probiotics is the best price/cfu's)

 

I also want to start using clay (purchased the hydrated clay at HFS to ease into using), but unsure how to time it with the med/supps that I need take in the am!  I ultimately want to give to the kids too, but am going to guinea pig it on myself first!    While other times of the day are less crammed with supps, I'm having trouble figuring out how to fit them all in, especially in the am.  I have about a 2 - 2 1/2 hour time span to fit these in.  So please chime in with some suggestions! 

 

Med/Supps to take in am:

 

To take on empty stomach/away from supps/food

Armour Thyroid - at least 1 hour b4 food

Wobenzym (enzyme) 30- 45 minutes b4 food

Probiotic - 1/2 hour?

Clay - when in relation to other "empty stomach" meds/supps?

 

Other

Isocort (adrenal)

DHEA

Herbal Tincture for adrenal/thyroid

Vitamins/Supps - Multi, Vit C, Fish oils, milk thistle, NAC

Cell Salts

 

TIA for the assistance!

ETA:  My kids are GF, DF and mostly EF.  I generally am GF, DF, but not EF.  Kids had IgG testing about 10 months ago; as DD showed more reactive for more foods, she is the reason that we are GF, DF, and mostly EF (for DS and I, I don't worry about trace or hidden dairy/gluten ingredients, as he hasn't had much exposure to either and didn't test positive for either) and both kids also tested positive for egg.  They both tested positive for a few other things, but the gluten, dairy and egg were the biggies.


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Old 05-21-2011, 10:03 PM
 
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I used to have issues with Candida. Two years with a healthy diet and gut healing has made the issues disappear.

 

A month ago, I started taking high dose probiotics to help with pregnancy. I wasn't able to add the clay because the only clay I could afford was Great Plains Bentonite - and I was nervous about possibly taking a lower quality clay (if it is a lower quality).

 

The probiotics made me crave sugar like crazy. Had no idea why, but I just had to have baked goods and sugar.

 

I ran out of the probiotics last week, and I didn't have the money to refill. The past two days, my Candida symptoms have returned. Today was the worst.

 

I plan on buying some more next week. Crazy symptoms, but I have always been out of the norm for things like this.

 

 


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Old 05-22-2011, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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that sounds pretty normal to me!  how people judge their issues is through their lenses.  If the symptoms you attribute to candida are gone then it's reasonable to assume that there's no longer an issue.  Unfortunately it's not always true.  What you likely did was upset the tipping point, but it also confirms (in my mind) that you still had healing to do.

 

Great Plains is a great company.  Not at all inferior, just more expensive!

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Old 05-22-2011, 03:12 PM
 
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Right - I feel like I still have some healing to do. I might try the Great Plains bentonite. It is less expensive - not more-... Its about 8.00 for a 16 fluid ounce bottle.


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Old 05-22-2011, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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Right - I feel like I still have some healing to do. I might try the Great Plains bentonite. It is less expensive - not more-... Its about 8.00 for a 16 fluid ounce bottle.



oh no, that is EXTREMELY expensive.  It's not apples to apples.  That may have about 1-2 T. of clay in there.  If you buy it dry and hydrate it yourself you will save a LOT.  A pound (16 ounces) of dry pascalite is $12.

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Old 05-23-2011, 11:07 AM
 
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How about the bentonite clay from MRH ($5.50 for 1lb)? Is it good quality for internal use? I'm buying some for external use anyway, but might increase the amount to 5lbs if it is good for internal use.


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Old 05-23-2011, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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the fine mesh can be...but it ends up costing so much (they're shipping is horrific) so I just go for pascalite for the most part.  Or living clay.

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Old 05-23-2011, 01:18 PM
 
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Gosh, I better check shipping before I get excited about my order. You are the second person to mention shipping prices. I live on the same coast as MRH, so I guess I've been hoping S&H will be lower for me. redface.gif

 

I didn't see a "fine mesh" option. I have a Vitamix (dry container) among other grinding options. Would that help make a dry clay be more palatable or mixable or ???  Or, is it a different grade issue?


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Old 05-23-2011, 01:54 PM
 
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oh no, that is EXTREMELY expensive.  It's not apples to apples.  That may have about 1-2 T. of clay in there.  If you buy it dry and hydrate it yourself you will save a LOT.  A pound (16 ounces) of dry pascalite is $12.



Wow- I had no idea. Thanks for the info. Now on to looking for some already dried pascalite.

 


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Old 05-25-2011, 01:03 PM
 
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wow, this thread is pretty amazing!!!! I love the idea of increasing the amount of pbx.......and this has me seriously thinking about  it.  I guess Iam having a should'ave, could'ave, but didn't moment ( well longer since it is a looong thread).

We do water kefir, usually about 1/4 - 2 tbls a day, is this something we can try to increase? I have always been cautious of having too much kefir.

Do you mamas give more than is recommended on bought pbx but still  limit the kefir?

Sorry if I am not making sense, but my head is just spinning from reading  thi thread :)

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Old 05-25-2011, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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elsewhere we are speculating that probiotics isolated function differently than food based.  The results I'm seeing are with probiotics.  There have been a few that have said they didn't feel so much increasing kefir but the probiotics kicked their butts.  Pat (wuwei) said that it was perhaps that the kefir has more strains of lower potency so when you add them up it's very potent.  But if you use a high potency probiotics with only a few strains those strains can push more.  I find this to be a likely explanation.  HTH!

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Old 05-29-2011, 07:13 PM
 
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Ok, I got tired of procrastinating and just bought the $8.00 Great Plains Bentonite. I took a tablespoon before breakfast and another before lunch. 

 

The probiotics are causing symptoms such as sugar cravings, geographic tongue (which I usually get, but it's not *this* bad), and rashes.

 

I'm wondering if my symptoms are not so much about healing, but more about throwing my system off. There is a theory going around about candida being there to *help* protect the body.

 

I'm hoping the clay takes care of this, since I'm pregnant and don't want to be messing around with mercury - I haven't seen any change yet.

 

http://www.holistichelp.net/blog/mercury-poisoning-and-candida-overgrowth/


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Old 05-29-2011, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I believe it IS there to protect the body, what you are trying to address is the underlying cause.  much like flies around a trashcan there is a reason that yeast would grow out of control.  You need to clean the trashcan.  as long as food is rotting in it you will always attract flies.  A nice clean can will not be of any interest to them.

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Old 05-29-2011, 09:03 PM
 
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elsewhere we are speculating that probiotics isolated function differently than food based.  The results I'm seeing are with probiotics.  There have been a few that have said they didn't feel so much increasing kefir but the probiotics kicked their butts.  Pat (wuwei) said that it was perhaps that the kefir has more strains of lower potency so when you add them up it's very potent.  But if you use a high potency probiotics with only a few strains those strains can push more.  I find this to be a likely explanation.  HTH!


I have been thinking about this issue a lot recently, because my toddler recently had to take antibiotics, and got subsequent thrush, despite three-times-a-day probiotics. He also had a bacterial imbalance that persisted despite the probiotics. But I only really noticed the thrush and diarrhea after I scaled back to once-a-day probiotics and increased food-based probiotics (homemade dairy kefir and homemade kombucha, about a cup a day of each for a two year old).

 

I've always been a big believer that food-based probiotics are better, more potent, and survive and colonize better, based on info from healing crow and others -- but this experience did NOT go along with that theory. As soon as we cut down the bottled probiotics, we saw huge worsening of symptoms, despite the large amounts of homemade cultures. And according to the bacteria count from when Pat got her kefir and kombucha tested, we should have been at a much higher potency level than with the bottled probiotics. But it just didn't act that way. The thrush got way out of control. And this was with 24+ hour kefir and continuous brew kombucha, so extra high levels of the good stuff. I would really like to know more about this.

 


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Old 05-29-2011, 10:06 PM
 
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Hi all!  haven't been on mdc is awhile and thought I'd check in here as I have seen some recent activity.  We are still SLOWLY increasing probiotics and clay for all of us (3 kids and me).  We are all making progress.  Ds is making more progress lately than ever before so I am greatly relieved at this.  I definitely find the clay to make the die off tolerable to non existent these days.  I increased ds's probiotic yesterday and forgot the clay completely today (we were busily distracted by holiday weekend home fixing up!).  He was fussy and I realized that I had forgotten the clay and kicked myself.  He would have had an easier day if I had remembered.  Oh well... tomorrow is another day.  I have to say that even me being able to be distracted enough to forget about his gut problems for awhile is very strong evidence that he is better.  He is up to 78 billion cells of probiotic, same as me.  DD1 is taking 52 billion cells and is having regular bms for the first time in her life (she's 11).  DD2 is taking 26 billion cells because when I increased hers she became constantly incontent of stool.  This did not go away after a few days so I figured it was something different than die off.  She has always had very regular bms.  Since going back to 25 billion cells she is back to being continent again and very regular.  Don't know why this could be but clearly 26 billion was a better dose for her.  Anyway, I don't know how high we will go but I figure once we all find a spot where we are regular and feeling good we will stay there.  Coincidentally,  all the kids have had growth spurts lately and their appetites are awesome.  We are in a good place right now. 

 

jen


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Old 05-30-2011, 05:26 PM
 
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Nicely put!


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Old 06-16-2011, 03:05 PM
 
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Just wondering if any of you may have some input on something.   I had been feeling great (as described above) then I stupidly tried a non-alcoholic gluten containing malted drink.  I seemed fine with it for awhile  (had 1 to 2 per day for about 2 weeks or so).  Then I started have clear yeasty symptoms so I stopped the drink.  (ds also had some sensitivity reaction to it through my breast milk).  Now, about a week or almost 2 later, the yeasty symptoms are gone but my bowells are very sluggish and I have this very odd stomach distention especially late in the day.  My stomach sticks out really far (like a look pg) if I don't hold my abdominal muscles tight.  When I relax my abdominal muscles my abdomen is rounded and firm.  This has been going on for a few days.   I have no pain or excessive gas.   I don't think this is still related to the drink that I had been drinking.  What could this be?  I had been taking 78billion cells of the custom probiotics daily but had slipped a bit on the clay (maybe only 1x per day and sometimes skipping all together).  dh says I should stop everything and just let my body function on it's own.  He thinks these symptoms mean I over did it on the probiotics but he has no information to base this on.  I do have a feeling of fullness and heaviness that is not pleasant but not painful either.  any thoughts?  jen


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Old 06-17-2011, 08:36 PM
 
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Perhaps you pushed your intestinal flora out of whack again and have a bunch of gas-inducing bacteria now?  I've been there and I know how it stinks.  A gluten exposure for me can put me slightly off kilter for a while.

 

How are you guys getting your children to drink the clay?  I've given my 14 month old a little bit here and there when I'm drinking it, but I have no idea how to approach my four year old with it because I'm fairly certain he'll be resistant and don't want to blow my chance.


<>< Alison
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigismom View Post

 I don't think this is still related to the drink that I had been drinking. 



hey there.  can you elaborate as to why you don't think it's related?  exposures tend to throw our bodies out of whack for awhile, and the results are often cumulative.

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Old 06-18-2011, 03:48 PM
 
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I thought it was unrelated bc I initially had some yeast symptoms and then seemed fine for a few days after eliminating the drink and then sticking to the probiotic and clay. Then the bloating started. I guess at this point I have come to the conclusion that it was related. I doubted my own judgement bc dh has been giving me some grief for experimenting so much (his word). I am feeling better today so I will stay the course and definitely avoid the drink. It's funny though, I have never had symptoms that I attributed to any food sensitivity or intolerance. I started on this path bc of ds's issues and figured that my gut was not great in order to have a kid (the girls too but not as bad as him) with such a messed up gut. Now I clearly reacted to thus drink that was most likely a gluten exposure. I also can not eat chocolate or any amount of caffiene (killer headaches). This started after I cleaned up my diet and started on probiotics. Maybe I felt so regularly bad back then that did not realize any reactions. I dunno

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Old 06-22-2011, 02:10 PM
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De-lurking for a moment to ask about gut flora population. 100 trillion is the number a few folks have mentioned here, and I am wondering if there is a reference for that? (Tried to click on the Sciencemag article linked, but can only see the abstract without a subscription.) Wikipedia eyesroll.gif says: "The human body, consisting of about 100 trillion cells, carries about ten times as many microorganisms in the intestines." So, that would be 1000 trillion. I don't know why this is sticking for me and don't have a real sense of numbers that big. But am plotting an attack on the bad guys and thinking about dosage. Even 600 billion seems small in the face (I suppose bacteria don't actually have faces, but i digress) of 1000 trillion.

The other question I have is about strains. Does it really matter what we use? One or six or more? Are the b. strains bad as the SCD folks seem to think? Is the goal to establish colonies of the strains used or is the goal to let the supplemented strains outmaneuver the unwanteds long enough for the good stuff that is there to repopulate itself?

I suppose I may be overthinking this, but I need to work though it for myself.

On another note, I have been building up my intake of calcium bentonite and in 5 days or so have seen a reduction of redness and itchiness on my face (a sign of a food reaction for me) and elimination is slightly improved. Whatever happens with the probiotics (when I get there) I am grateful for this tread for introducing clay into my life (and my insides).

 

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