NOT AGAIN! (warning: possible controversal vax reaction mentioned that is NOT up for debate) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Background: There is a long drawn out story I could go into but I will spare you the details lol Basically DD had a ton of "intolerances" as an infant and then they magically got better when we stopped vaxing. ( I now a lot of kids have real intolerances I just think hers were a reaction to the vax b/c we eliminated everything and were basically down to just lettuce and she was still bleeding in her intestines and 3 months after we stopped vaxing for unrelated reasons she was completely healed) She was absolutely fine and we could eat anything with no issues. Then at her 15 m/o visit we were sort of talked into doing just HIB all alone and the day after that she got her first ear infection followed by 5 more in just 5 months... (whether or not you think it is vax related is irrelevant I am just posting how it actually happened) So we switched peds and are going to a holistic pedi now. He thinks a lot of what she has been through was vax related and we are working with him to re-build her immune system and things like that. Since she got another double ear infection a few days ago he said she probably has a dairy allergy now. (20 m/o now)

 

Current: So now we are eliminating all dairy. (which we ate little of anyway) I am wondering if it is more if she directly eats it or if I have a little and it's in my BM if that would effect her? The only thing I really want is my coffee creamer which has sodium caseiate (sp) which is milk derived...do you think  having that in my coffee will cause a reaction? It doesn't have any other dairy products in it and is lactose free...even though I know lactose doesn't matter with an actual allergy.


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#2 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 08:10 AM
 
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Other moms probably have better advice, but here's my two cents. My LO has a strawberry allergy. She gets hives; it's a pretty clear allergic reaction. I, however, can eat strawberries & nurse her, and she has no reaction at all.

 

Does your doctor think she has an allergy to lactose or casein? Or is he just using the word allergy to mean it causes disruption in her body, ie increased mucous buildup in the sinuses which impacts the ear canal and eventually leads to an infection? If I were you, I would clarify that. I had a friend whose child was allergic to casein and it was obvious -- it sent him into anaphylaxis, and is definitely not something I would experiment with. If you're comfortable with a little experimentation, you could eliminate dairy for a while and when your DD is well, try the coffee creamer and see what happens. 

 

Your post is interesting on a personal level. As a child, I had chronic ear infections. Like years of them, all the time. I also had upset stomach and other gastrointestinal upsets, but I just thought that was normal. Years later, as an adult, I cut out dairy (related, actually, to the friend's child who was seriously allergic, we ate together a lot), and voila, no more upset stomachs! I was lactose intolerant & never knew it till then. I wonder now whether all the ear infections were related? 

 

Anyway, good luck and I think it's great you're being so proactive with your child's health. Hopefully you'll be able to have your creamer. It's those little pleasures that make the day, isn't it? 

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#3 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 08:40 AM
 
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I guess if it were me, I'd switch to a dairy-free creamer temporarily until you see whether or not her issues clear up. Then introduce the creamer back in & make sure she does OK with it. Otherwise, if her issues don't clear up, you'll never know if it's because it wasn't actually dairy-related, or if she was reacting to the creamer in your milk...

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#4 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 03:26 PM
 
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I went dairy free when I was nursing my DD (she has IgE allergies).  I used an awesome coconut milk creamer made by So Delicious (at Whole Foods). 

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#5 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I use it but it's just not the same I usually use the international delight french vanilla. I HATE the so delicious FV creamer. I can stand the regular but then I add a bunch of sugar...I went dairy, egg, (first beef then progressively)meat, corn, strawberry, soy, lentil, gluten, nut, seed, citrus free for about a year before and it was absolute hell.


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#6 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 08:58 PM
 
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If you are TESTING her reaction to dairy in her diet and in BM, you need to cut out the creamer.  When you live with a dairy allergy, it will depend.  If she is truly allergic, I would lean towards eliminating.  Our DD has had severe dairy allergies since forever, but this might not be your daughter.  DD is also allergic to corn, but we let her have a handful of popcorn or a peppermint candy once in a while because her reaction is very mild.  Same goes for the rice syrup in her favorite non-dairy ice cream.  (We both are allergic to rice.)  And I'll eat one piece birthday cake with eggs in it and corn starch-powdered-sugar-frosting on top without much trouble and---yum!  But woe unto me if I indulge in another piece!

     So, being always diligent, just go with what works for your DD.  Her reactions may increase, or fade, but either way so much is trial and error and every body is different.

 

P. S.  If she has had reactions to vaccines, has she had egg yet?  I honestly don't remember which vaccines use eggs (flu, I know) but I might be wary if that was the case.


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#7 of 21 Old 05-30-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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You could try coconut milk or almond milk just to be sure.

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#8 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I never drank dairy milk she is still Bfing. We use all the So delicious products. We were using grassfed butter and cheeses and I tried giving her some organic (stonyfeild) yogurt. She eats eggs almost everyday. I definately think if it is an allergy it's dairy b/c after she stopped the vax reactions we still didn't eat dairy. DH kind of pushed that it would be ok if we did butter and cheese from grass-fed cows (I am against the industrialization of dairy and meat) so we had a little here and there and she didn't have any problems for a couple of months until she got the HIB vax then she has consistently been getting ear infections one after the other.

 

I bought some so delicious creamer, suppose I will just have to get used to it again. I think avoiding obvious dairy isn't so hard it's more all the hidden stuff. If we go visit someone I have to diligently check everything. Tomorrow we are going to a B-day party at a Chinese buffet! What can we eat there? Maybe lo mein or something? I don't think they normally cook with butter right?


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#9 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 06:59 AM
 
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I never drank dairy milk she is still Bfing. We use all the So delicious products. We were using grassfed butter and cheeses and I tried giving her some organic (stonyfeild) yogurt. She eats eggs almost everyday. I definately think if it is an allergy it's dairy b/c after she stopped the vax reactions we still didn't eat dairy. DH kind of pushed that it would be ok if we did butter and cheese from grass-fed cows (I am against the industrialization of dairy and meat) so we had a little here and there and she didn't have any problems for a couple of months until she got the HIB vax then she has consistently been getting ear infections one after the other.

 

I bought some so delicious creamer, suppose I will just have to get used to it again. I think avoiding obvious dairy isn't so hard it's more all the hidden stuff. If we go visit someone I have to diligently check everything. Tomorrow we are going to a B-day party at a Chinese buffet! What can we eat there? Maybe lo mein or something? I don't think they normally cook with butter right?


From my experience, Chinese is one of the 'safest' in terms of dairy-free food. smile.gif You'll probably still be best off asking beforehand but I have never personally seen dairy used in any Chinese foods I've tried... although I have seen random things like pizza in their buffets eyesroll.gif and so watch out for Americanized dishes... and most desserts...

Sorry you can't have your good creamer greensad.gif Hopefully you can reintroduce it quickly & she won't have a problem with it!!

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#10 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 07:23 AM
 
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DS1 had vaxes for the first 9 or so months (at which time I quit work to stay home, educated myself further re: vax and STOPPED vaxing!!). DS1 was a very colicy/cranky baby. He was exclusively BF, but still seemed to "react" to alot of stuff. Once he weaned, he kept getting rashes (face, legs mostly) and we figured out he is sensitive to wheat, corn and soy as well as pasteurized dairy. He CAN, however, tolerate (and enjoy!) RAW cow's milk with no reaction. I think it also helps that it's been nearly 4 yrs since his last vax and we have worked HARD to get his gut healthy (probiotics, etc, etc).

 

FWIW, DS1 has had allergy blood and skin tests that came back as "no allergies"....BUT if you LOOK at my kid he LOOKS like he has allergies (when he's reacting) - he has the dark under eye circles, snot, etc that are not from lack of sleep or a "cold"!  DS1 and I both are now gluten free (which seems to help!) and we work hard to keep his gut healthy.

 

As far as the vax....well, I have little doubt that had we continued to vax ds1, he would now either have autism or adhd or something along those lines. No, i am NOT saying the vax CAUSES those....HOWEVER, in my ds1's case, the gut is the base of the immune system and a vax disrupts that system. I believe that continued disruption would have triggered more problems for us. So, do I feel you are valid in your thought that the vax could have caused / exacerbated gut problems / ear infections - absolutely! (side note: as a pp mentioned, I too had CONSTANT ear infections as a kid (from birth to probably 10is) and now have a hearing loss in one ear b/c of it....now, you've got me wondering if that was due, at least in part, to vaxes!!??!!)

 

I am sorry your lo has to deal with (and that you have to!). Good luck to you mama!

 


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#11 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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See I am afraid her reaction will be a lot worse when she does wean. We believe in CLW but I do want to TTC soon and I do have AF back but I am worried my milk will dry up. It already takes a huge plummet when I have AF and she flips piut every single feed b/c my supply dips so badly.


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#12 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 08:17 AM
 
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See I am afraid her reaction will be a lot worse when she does wean. We believe in CLW but I do want to TTC soon and I do have AF back but I am worried my milk will dry up. It already takes a huge plummet when I have AF and she flips piut every single feed b/c my supply dips so badly.



Her reactions to dairy or to vaxes? Or both? And why would weaning have an affect? Because of the immune boosting properties of nursing being missing? (Totally serious question, not snarky!).

 

I've been re-reading your posts. You mention that you had a few months of eating dairy and her nursing and she was just fine. Then the vax, the ear infections, and now no dairy again because the naturopath suspects dairy allergy. He might be right, but why the few months of health with dairy then? Can you have her tested? Or is she too young? It seems to me that your life would be much easier if you had as many irrefutable facts as possible, rather than just speculations. If anything, it seems like her immune system was taxed by the vax, leading her to succumb to an ear infection. From what you've said, *I* wouldn't automatically jump to dairy allergy. 

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#13 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 09:18 AM
 
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My son got his 5th DTaP dose at age 5 (which I really wrestled with, and have since regretted) and has basically been sick ever since a mild but noticeable reaction.  He's had stomach issues and constant congestion and coughing.  At first it just seemed like virus after virus.  He was tested for pertussis and parapertussis.  He had a sinus x-ray and chest x-ray.  He was tested for allergies, and has none.  But we've figured out through trial and error that he IS lactose intolerant.  I truly believe that the vaccine reaction triggered something in him, perhaps the first string of illnesses, that messed up his gut.  I really don't know, but lactose intolerance doesn't run in our family and he never had issues with dairy prior to the vax.

 

We've never figured out why he's always congested or why his skin has become very dry, but I know in my heart that it was the vaccine, because he did have a reaction and all this happened very shortly thereafter.

 

Anyway, in your case, I would try the dairy elimination but also pursue allergy testing just to make sure.  Best wishes!


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#14 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well assumably to dairy. A lot of kids with allergies or without once they are weaned from BM have severe reactions (which yeah I assume is from the immunocological benefits). I read about it all the time like a 3 y/o weans and then they suddenly have horrific eczema or something. *I* too feel like it is from the vax but it could be that the vax caused the dairy allergy, IMO. I have not had her formerly tested she is 20 m/o so I don't think she is too young but IDK what do they do a scratch test? Does that hurt? I am not sure she would co-operate considering she puts up a 30min fight for a rectal temp...She is very spirited thumb.gif
 

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Her reactions to dairy or to vaxes? Or both? And why would weaning have an affect? Because of the immune boosting properties of nursing being missing? (Totally serious question, not snarky!).

 

I've been re-reading your posts. You mention that you had a few months of eating dairy and her nursing and she was just fine. Then the vax, the ear infections, and now no dairy again because the naturopath suspects dairy allergy. He might be right, but why the few months of health with dairy then? Can you have her tested? Or is she too young? It seems to me that your life would be much easier if you had as many irrefutable facts as possible, rather than just speculations. If anything, it seems like her immune system was taxed by the vax, leading her to succumb to an ear infection. From what you've said, *I* wouldn't automatically jump to dairy allergy. 



 


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#15 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I totally agree his issues could be from the vax. Our ped has been a ped for over 40years and *he* believes that vaccines make a lot of kids a lot sicker. He explained to me that some kids bodies seem to react to the vaccines and cause all kinds of illnesses. When we did vax on schedule since 2 m/o she was constantly sick. Fevers all the time, virus after virus, cold after cold, vomiting, intolerances, she had rotovirus 3 times before she was 6 m/o and she was fully vaxed for it on schedule! We were lucky if she went a week without being sick and she was an EBF, stay at home baby, born vaginally in a birth center. (I guess if they are born vaginally it is suppose to give them a better immune system?) No one could explain it. She had little seizures during day sleep so whenever she napped she would be twitching and screaming in her sleep like a night terror. When we stopped vaxing it all just disappeared a few months later. I absolutely saw it as a miracle and of course none of it was linked to vax according to her ped at the time....I feel like such an idiot for giving her the hib. I should have trusted myself but I let fear get the best of me and now my baby is in pain again and I feel like everything is falling apart. bawling.gif I wish I could take it back so badly.

 

My mama instincts seemed to be hesitant of adding the dairy back anyways. IDK like I felt it in my gut to expect something to happen so who knows..
 

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My son got his 5th DTaP dose at age 5 (which I really wrestled with, and have since regretted) and has basically been sick ever since a mild but noticeable reaction.  He's had stomach issues and constant congestion and coughing.  At first it just seemed like virus after virus.  He was tested for pertussis and parapertussis.  He had a sinus x-ray and chest x-ray.  He was tested for allergies, and has none.  But we've figured out through trial and error that he IS lactose intolerant.  I truly believe that the vaccine reaction triggered something in him, perhaps the first string of illnesses, that messed up his gut.  I really don't know, but lactose intolerance doesn't run in our family and he never had issues with dairy prior to the vax.

 

We've never figured out why he's always congested or why his skin has become very dry, but I know in my heart that it was the vaccine, because he did have a reaction and all this happened very shortly thereafter.

 

Anyway, in your case, I would try the dairy elimination but also pursue allergy testing just to make sure.  Best wishes!



 


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#16 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 04:34 PM
 
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I guess I don't understand why your doc thinks she may be allergic to dairy if she was doing fine on dairy before. Just because she got another ear infection? My son got ear infection after ear infection before age 2. Our ped said it was normal for some kids and to wait over the summer after he turned two for his ear canal to grow and see if waiting fixed the problem. He never had another ear infection. Jumping to a dairy allergy seems kind of drastic for a problem so many kids have.
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#17 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it's b/c dairy causes that problem for so many kids...FF fed babies get a lot more ear infections b/c it is dairy...he is an allergen specialist too


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#18 of 21 Old 05-31-2011, 05:48 PM
 
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Typically, scratch tests do not always have positive results when they are that little - we had a little guy who seemingly had a lot of allergies (environmental and possible food) and when he was tested at 18 months, he didn't have any positive reactions.  He had a lot of ear infections and ended up getting tubes (which really saved him).  Our ped allergist said at that time that a lot of kids don't have reactions to skin prick tests at that age, but that ages 3-4 is the 'age of emergence' when a lot of allergies really take hold.

 

We got him tested when he turned 4, and he was highly allergic to most of the environmental things they tested him for, and 17 of the 30 foods they tested him for...interestingly enough, not dairy on either of the 2 tests. 

 

While dairy can cause ear problems, it can also be an allergy/intolerance to something else.  We've removed those 17 things and his GI issues are largely resolved. 

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  Our ped allergist said at that time that a lot of kids don't have reactions to skin prick tests at that age, but that ages 3-4 is the 'age of emergence' when a lot of allergies really take hold.

 

 

 

This has been our experience as well.  Dairy was a no-brainer, but she clearly had an almond allergy that didn't respond to a skin test at 2, but did at 4.  Also, about 4yo a wheat allergy kicked in big time and she was clear on her test at 2 and seemed to do alright (though I realize now that this had always been a mild allergy.  She always got red around the mouth eating soy sauce.  She has sensitive skin, so I dismissed this.  But now, on wheat-free tamari we have no redness.

      So, if you have an intuition that dairy could be a problem, there is no reason you have to introduce it, and many reasons to put off reintroducing it until later.

      Immune systems are so weird and touchy.   My DH just reminded me about a woman who gets a severe (histamine) skin reaction to cold air!  And both my DD and I have pretty good case of a condition called dermographism, a histamine reaction to being touched.  So, yes, since the point of a vaccine is to stimulate the immune system, it is perfectly likely that in some instances the immune system can react in unpredictable ways--overreacting to an otherwise mild allergy, for instance.  Or, like weird cross-reactions between some environmental allergies and foods (the body of a person allergic to ragweed, say can mistake a blueberry for ragweed pollen and initiate an immune response).  

      Go with your gut feelings on this.

     Enjoy your Chinese food!  No dairy, but hidden allergies are wheat (in soy sauce) peanuts (in the peanut oil) and shellfish (oyster sauce) and of course corn (starch).  
 

 


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#20 of 21 Old 06-02-2011, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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UGH we didn't even do Chinese food! We get there all ready to go and turns out the did a cook out instead without even telling us...DD and I ate MSG laiden yellow rice and most likely GMO corn for dinner....I brought a small veg cake (I couldn't find just dairy free) and we had that too. Then MIL says "oh don't you want ice cream?"

 

Everyone thinks I am just "over reacting" about this whole "allergy thing". (just like when we did elimination diet before for intolerances I would find someone sneeking DD pieces of cheese!) IDK why anyone would think that eliminating food was fun and easy and let me tell you completely made up for no reason!


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#21 of 21 Old 06-02-2011, 06:09 PM
 
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I have told everybody that I will always be responsible for my and my DD's dinner when we are out.  I make a point of eating before I go so I don't either go hungry (I am NOT Sweet when I am hungry!) nor do I eat what I know I shouldn't.  And I always bring dinner for her, or feed her before we go.  I also always have a special treat that she can eat when everyone is diving into dessert.  No one around me is like the people you described.  I would be livid if anybody handed my DD cheese when I told them she is allergic!  Luckily, she is old enough now that she knows what to turn down.

     Some folks are sooooo sure that it's "just" lactose intolerance.  No, her throat closes up and she vomits.  Even so, some "just" intolerant kids have excruciating pain from dairy (so, what the hell?????!!!!!!!!!).  Even with lesser allergies I would still be pissed if they were offered to her on the sly.  We spread those out so that she doesn't get into an "allergic fog" as I call it, being well familiar with it in myself, of being so overwhelmed by not-so-severe allergies that your body feels sluggish and awful and you don't even recognize individual symptoms any more.  I gained 10 pounds after I stopped eating The Big Ones, even though I was eating less!  Imagine that my gut was so overwhelmed with crud that I wasn't even absorbing CALORIES let alone nutrients.  How this would affect a child, I can only imagine.

     I feel so frustrated for you.  I hope that people will finally respect your observations and assessments as the person who knows her best.

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