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#181 of 216 Old 09-16-2007, 09:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Wolfmeis View Post
No, I think (God help me again) that environmental toxins, traffic exhaust, the whole living-in-America pollution thing is what's doing this to us.
Popping in late to this thread, but there is speculation that pollution (toxins, pesticides, etc.) in the air, soil and water is partially the reason for the increase in allergies in the last 50 years or so. Makes sense to me because these substances are an assault to the immune system - which is especially fragile in babies and toddlers.

The immune system gains strength as a child matures. Children who are susceptible to allergies benefit by delayed introduction to foods until their immune system is able to cope more effectively. Of course, very little can be done about the environmental pollutions that we all breathe and live in if we are in an area that's highly polluted.

Beyond this, there is also medical research that points to specific brain wiring that makes a person more allergy prone. While the basic structure of the brain is similar among humans, there are many, many variations. For example, gifted persons are more likely to have allergies than non-gifted folks. Giftedness is seen to be (partially) hereditary.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the brain plays a major component in allergic reactions because it recognizes a particular substance as a threat, thus giving off histamines?

I think there is a lot that you can do to help prevent allergies, as has been discussed on this thread. And there is a lot that can not be helped such as genetics and living in a world that is more polluted than was 50+ some years ago. But I see the bottom line as being that because we are all unique and different individuals, our individual bodies have so many variations, even living under the best circumstances, eating the "right" foods, etc. is no guarantee that our children would be allergy free.

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#182 of 216 Old 09-20-2007, 10:19 PM
 
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this was really interesting. but while i can not give my kids vax and antibiotics (my 2yo has never received any of either), i'm not going to put my kids in daycare just to build their immune systems.

are there any other ways to expose them to bacterial infections? my 2yo i'm sure is exposed, he runs around playing with our cat, dog and chickens as well as climbing under things and laying on floors where ever we are. but how do you expose an under 3mo old (which the references show is so important)?? is just being around people enough? i don't freak out when people touch dd hands, unless they just went to the bathroom (and haven't washed their hands yet) or i'm in a hospital.
I don't think daycare in itself is necessary, how about playgroups and the local park... just exposure to other kids in general.

I also think what that article is trying to say that the major illnesses might be necessary for a child's immune system development: chicken pox, measles, whooping cough, etc. They may play a role in educating our immune system, if fought off healthfully (ie. by a well nourished body with good balance of gut flora). And that vaccines themselves not only disallow the immune system a workout, but also skew it to overreact to more common things (TH1 vs. TH2 dominant).
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#183 of 216 Old 09-20-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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And AFAIK animals, apart from domesticated pets and animals -- who incidently are fed, for the most part, inappropriate diets, don't have allergies.
Certain animals not getting allergies (or several other diseases) are thought to be b/c they make their own vitamin C. Our genes changed long ago due to high C in our foods. Not making C spared glucose, so by natural selection the mutants were superior. And thus we modern day humans no longer have the enzyme to produce ascorbic acid on demand.
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#184 of 216 Old 09-20-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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Certain animals not getting allergies (or several other diseases) are thought to be b/c they make their own vitamin C. Our genes changed long ago due to high C in our foods. Not making C spared glucose, so by natural selection the mutants were superior. And thus we modern day humans no longer have the enzyme to produce ascorbic acid on demand.
I know this, as per Irwin Stone's theory. Do guinea pigs get allergies also? The thing is if humans ate a suitable diet we would have sufficient vitamin C without having to take large amounts of SA. One theory I have heard is allergies can be caused by the lack of enzyme-mutations to digest cooked minerals. Back I come to raw animal fats and especially raw meat!

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#185 of 216 Old 09-21-2007, 09:10 AM
 
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I also think what that article is trying to say that the major illnesses might be necessary for a child's immune system development: chicken pox, measles, whooping cough, etc. They may play a role in educating our immune system, if fought off healthfully (ie. by a well nourished body with good balance of gut flora). And that vaccines themselves not only disallow the immune system a workout, but also skew it to overreact to more common things (TH1 vs. TH2 dominant).
You know, sometimes I wonder if taking large doses of vitamin C to ward off things like cold and (non-serious) illnesses might be counter-productive by not allowing the immune system to develop properly. Any thoughts on this?
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#186 of 216 Old 09-21-2007, 09:13 AM
 
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Certain animals not getting allergies (or several other diseases) are thought to be b/c they make their own vitamin C. Our genes changed long ago due to high C in our foods. Not making C spared glucose, so by natural selection the mutants were superior. And thus we modern day humans no longer have the enzyme to produce ascorbic acid on demand.
Personally I think there's a reason why we don't produce our own vitamin C--I don't think it's an error, I think it's an inherent design. Perhaps we simply don't need as much vitamin C as animals do (when eating a proper diet), particularly since we have the capability to "supplement" with foods high in vitamin C if necessary during an illness. It would be impossible to prove that humans ever had the capability to create their own vitamin C, researchers merely guess that we did because of the similarities in genes.
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#187 of 216 Old 09-21-2007, 04:28 PM
 
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You know, sometimes I wonder if taking large doses of vitamin C to ward off things like cold and (non-serious) illnesses might be counter-productive by not allowing the immune system to develop properly. Any thoughts on this?
This is an interesting point. I believe colds and flus are detoxes and if you let them run their course the body will be cleansed and the better for it. The thing is people fell the need to treat these detoxes, so taking high levels of a synthetic vitamin like C will give you a vitamin high and make you feel better. I am all for ample supplies of vitamin C, but while I do suggest people take supplements, it really is better to get the C in a natural form. My favorite vitamin C boost is 2 or 3 oranges juiced with a raw egg or two and some raw, unheated honey.

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#188 of 216 Old 10-22-2007, 01:40 PM
 
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hey folks, i could use some help. i have a 16mo ds who's allergic to eggs, milk, and beef (but mildly---he gets an itchy face rash that's worse in the winter if he eats them). it took us forever to discover what he was allergic to, or even that he was allergic (we thought it was just his sensitive skin + drool reacting to the cold winds in boston, since it was better if we stayed inside a few days), and now we've found he reacts if i eat beef or eggs (but he's fine if i have milk---thank goodness!).

SIL just pointed me in the direction of the gut healing thing (i'd never heard of it before) and it makes so much sense; i'd love to start *something* immediately to help him heal while we're off all the allergenic foods. i already believed it likely that he'd outgrow those allergies, now it seems like i can do something to help him along.

*but* i've read the "healing the gut tribe cheat sheet" and this thread and am still not entirely sure where to start. i'm pretty sure we should have probiotics, but it's not clear to me which, or which of us (both?) should be taking them, or how to make sure they're dairy free, or what.

would it be best to go to some sort of dr (or ND?) are NDs covered by insurance?

thanks for any info or guidance you may be able to provide,

elly
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#189 of 216 Old 10-23-2007, 12:13 AM
 
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Welcome, Ellyzoe! I'm sure Jane S or someone will pop in soon to steer you in the right direction. I'd say you both ought to be on probiotics as well as some cultured foods. DD2 cannot have dairy, soy or sugar so am looking in to making yogurt from coconut milk. I am finding for us at least, that yeasts are connected to our flora imbalances and possibly the allergies as well. Anyway, welcome.

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#190 of 216 Old 10-23-2007, 04:22 PM
 
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coconut milk seems like a really lovely dairy sub for lots of cooking etc, the only problem is that it's so expensive! where have you found it affordable? (it's almost $2 a can ($1/cup!) at my whole foods).

i did pick up some probiotics, so at least it's a start. i'll have to look into what can be cultured that isn't milk.
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#191 of 216 Old 10-23-2007, 10:47 PM
 
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Allergies are not inherited.

If you've inherited a tendency to become allergic then you've only inherited a genetic predisposition. You have not inherited the disease. A genetic predisposition is nearly inconsequential: it means only that you have a gene that encodes a protein that interacts with environmental factors in a way that increases the probability of developing allergies. Neither the gene nor the gene's product causes the situation. The genetic predisposition is neither necessary nor sufficient for the development of the allergy. The determinants of allergic disease are not genes but things that act on genes (and gene products). And these things are not inherited.

There's also an epidemiological way to prove that allergies are not inherited - and that's to look at the change in rate of allergic disease over time. The rate of inherited diseases does not change significantly over time (for many reasons). But allergies have dramatically changed: allergies are proportionally at least ten times higher today than a century ago. That increase can not be related to genes because our genes have remained constant over that time - our current genes and genetic predispositions existed 100 years ago in the bodies of our ancestors. But back then they didn't cause allergies.

Allergies are not written into our genes. Allergies are programmed onto our genes by the environment that pervades us. That doesn't mean allergies are evitable. The ubiquitous conditions in which we live force the probabilities in favor of developing the allergic phenotype in more and more children. It's often biologically programmed before birth, but it's not written in our genes.

If you've got the genes for redhair you have an inherited genetic predisposition for skin cancer. But whether or not you get skin cancer has next to nothing to do with your genes. This seems obvious. But let's remove the ozone layer, wait a hundred years and then take note that skin cancer now runs very distinctly in families with fair skin, especially redheads. The gene is now definitively linked to skin cancer. But it's still not genes that are causing the disease. And no way is it an inherited disease. It just seems like it because the real cause is ubiquitous and not evitable.
Wow! Thanks for typing that. I really didn't look at things that way but now I will.

So what do you hypothesize that the catalysts are for developing allergies?

What do you think about "allergy shots" ?
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#192 of 216 Old 10-25-2007, 12:56 AM
 
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coconut milk is 2.50+ here. nak
insider, that is really helpful to remember. As I understand it, allergies are autoimmune; which is interesting because in _Changing the Course of Autism_, the author says that auto immune issues usually crop up in families that have an autistic child. DH's sister is autistic, his brother has allergies, nephew has asthma/allergies, niece has some metabolic issues, and dd has food sensitivities. DD is sensitive health-wise, and I've always felt that if she'd had vaccines, she may have had major issues.
So for me, it's interesting considering that neither she nor I have ever had a vax or antibiotic, she didn't have solids til eight months, and I bf til 18 mos and she still has allergies. I vaccilate between frustration that this didn't work, apparently, and thinking it'd be much worse had she had any of those. Who knows?:

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#193 of 216 Old 11-03-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ellyzoe View Post
hey folks, i could use some help. i have a 16mo ds who's allergic to eggs, milk, and beef (but mildly---he gets an itchy face rash that's worse in the winter if he eats them). it took us forever to discover what he was allergic to, or even that he was allergic (we thought it was just his sensitive skin + drool reacting to the cold winds in boston, since it was better if we stayed inside a few days), and now we've found he reacts if i eat beef or eggs (but he's fine if i have milk---thank goodness!).

SIL just pointed me in the direction of the gut healing thing (i'd never heard of it before) and it makes so much sense; i'd love to start *something* immediately to help him heal while we're off all the allergenic foods. i already believed it likely that he'd outgrow those allergies, now it seems like i can do something to help him along.

*but* i've read the "healing the gut tribe cheat sheet" and this thread and am still not entirely sure where to start. i'm pretty sure we should have probiotics, but it's not clear to me which, or which of us (both?) should be taking them, or how to make sure they're dairy free, or what.
Sorry I came back so late... you may already know this but...
There's a step by step to do list at bottom of first post in the HTG thread which I have found the most helpful in our journey. There is also a monthly thread in Health and Healing that would be the best place for continuing these questions.
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#194 of 216 Old 11-03-2007, 11:46 PM
 
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Sorry I came back so late... you may already know this but...
There's a step by step to do list at bottom of first post in the HTG thread which I have found the most helpful in our journey. There is also a monthly thread in Health and Healing that would be the best place for continuing these questions.
I'm having a hard time finding the HTG thread (I've found the cheat sheet, but not just a HTG thread). Any chance you could give a link to it?

Thanks!

Sus

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#195 of 216 Old 11-06-2007, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=782163

Michelle: wife to J, mom to M (2001), E (2003), C (2005), S (2007) and O! (2009) And someone new in 2011!
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#196 of 216 Old 01-19-2008, 04:20 PM
 
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"The Probiotics Revolution"
by Dr. Gary Huffnagle, research immunologist and professor of internal medicine at U of Michigan Medical Center with 20 years of experience.

I have referred to him above I think with respect to his animal studies: showing that manipulating the gut flora can cause allergies to appear and disappear. He writes more about his research in this book and reiterates many of my very important key points about this issue. Which I'm thrilled to see coming from someone with impeccable credentials!!

-our intestinal flora

functions like another organ in the body equal to the heart or kidneys in importance.

-the gut makes up 70% of our immune system.

-good bacteria line all mucus surfaces: nose, respiratory, gut. They are a key function of our immune system, and first line defense against allergies; their number is 10x the amount of cells in our entire body.

-babies are designed to get their intestinal flora from the mother (vaginal birth and bf'ing). Antibiotics greatly upset this inheritance as well as the mother's probiotic health. The "Antibiotics Revolution" post WWII have just resulted in a gradual increase in the amount of allergies and asthma reaching epidemic proportions. He clearly places much of the blame for allergies on antibiotics. He doesn't quote human studies except his own experiences with mold allergies and sinusitis in himself and peanut allergy in his daughter (both overcome with help of probiotics and prebiotics).

Huffnagle recommends a very intensive plan for probiotics, 30 billion per day in supplements if facing a health challenge, plus food sources. Most interesting to me was the role of dietary phenols in supporting probiotic growth but he also goes into other foods acting as prebiotics.

press release on Huffnagle's book: http://www.med.umich.edu/opm/newspag.../allergies.htm

interview: http://www.allergymoms.com/modules/w...ndex.php?p=360

website: http://sitemaker.umich.edu/huffnagle...lution___book_

article with Huffnagle and Kelly Karpa (author of my other favorite book explaining the interaction of the gut flora and immune system, Probiotics for Breakfast)
https://www.holisticprimarycare.net/...7A1B72B468F9F9
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#197 of 216 Old 01-19-2008, 09:48 PM
 
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Hi Jane,

Nice to see you. I was wondering which probiotics you use? Also, how did you decide on Enzymedica enzymes? I know a lot of people use Houston so I was curious. Also, did you develop your enzyme protocol from the enzymestuff website? Or on your own?

I have an appointment with a Naturopath next week and I am hoping against hope that she will be able to guide me on this journey because I am somewhat lost.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#198 of 216 Old 01-20-2008, 12:50 AM
 
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I'm pretty much sticking with homemade yogurt (adding various super strains to it) and kefir, but I've liked Jarrow EPS and Natren too. DS does very well on Enzymatic Therapy Pearls, they are easy to take.

Yes, www.Enzymestuff.com info has been invaluble. I'm very interested in systemic enzymes and their support of the immune system in addition to digestive health. We started using Enzymedica's products more after I read Karen DeFelice's new book. And also b/c they have Digest Gold, which is equivalent to 2 of Houston's Zyme Prime (get at www.Iherb.com). I also like that Candidase has high proteases too.
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#199 of 216 Old 07-10-2008, 05:59 PM
 
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`Whew! I just read this whole thread! I'm new...been reading the TF section for a while,a nd I'm all fired up about probiotics. A few really, really weird questions...

Do you knowledgable mamas think it might be wise to let my 7 mo. old, exclusively bf ds (all he's had has been some cod liver oil on my finger and probiotic capsules to gum on) eat/chew on/otherwise somehow injest some of my milk kefir grains? I could rinse them really well, since he hasn't has dairy yet. I could cut them in tiny bits. I think he would find their soft puffy sliminess fun (or at least, more interesting than he is likely to than at any other age!). Is this a brilliant idea, or not?

Also--regarding the probiotic capsule I've been letting him gum everyday--it's Sedon Labs i-flora multi-probiotic...did I mess up, b/c I read here that infants should just get bifidus? Have I colonized him w/ too much stuff--it advertised 16 strains! Or...is this awesome that I've been doing this? I admit, I have wondered as its dissolved in his mouth how much will actually make it to his gut. It is expensive. Would maybe my exciting give-the-baby-grains idea be better than this capsule. OR (I'm sorry, I know this is probably a horrible idea--have to ask though!)--do people ever put probiotic capsules, like, in the other end? Would that do anything?

Well, thanks for tolerating me and I look forward to your insights!!!
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#200 of 216 Old 07-11-2008, 10:01 PM
 
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Wow, old thread! Actually, this is one of my favorite threads at MDC and I have it bookmarked

I don't know about the kefir grains, but re: probiotics. Infants don't just have bifidus, but it is the primary bacteria in their gut. If I were you, I would buy one for infants/toddlers the next time you get some.
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#201 of 216 Old 07-13-2008, 12:19 AM
 
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Milk kefir is a traditional weaning food in Russia... I think you'd have to use your mama intuition on that, I haven't seen specific research on it.

The reason why healthy bf babies (the norm) are bifidobacterium dominant is that breastmilk has a special kind of lactose that favors its development, in addition to the mammary gland secretion of bifido. Babes do have lactobacillus strains. So it's possible that he is bifido dominent anyways due to what he is eating. Does his stool smell like curried yogurt?

Yes, I have read about "putting probiotics in the other end" ... and also injecting human stool of a healthy person too! There is a clinic in either NZ or AUS that has success with this and colitis/IBD patients. Just how important the gut flora is only beginning to be discovered. But I digress...

I don't think it's determined whether probiotic enemas definitely work, since there is peristalsis to deal with, and in adults large intestines and small intestines are colonized by different probiotic strains (bifido is dominent in large intestine in adults, lactobacillus in small).

Whether probiotics taken by mouth survive to reach the intestines seem to be determined by stomach acid, a growth medium and hardy strains. I have read to have food in the stomach to be a buffer against acid, not take prob. between meals ...and then vice versa, you should take between meals. I seem to be reading with the more researched strains, with food is better. Basically follow manufacturers testing. With babies, they have less stomach acid anyways. And make sure the probiotics are a good quality strain. I agree with CP, get an infant one such as Natren Life Start, Natren Bifido Factor or Pharmax Neonate. The latter two are dairy free.
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#202 of 216 Old 07-13-2008, 12:32 AM
 
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Wow, neat~I didn't know my mamary glands were secreting bifido. Yay!

And yes, his poo smells like curried yogurt I think, dh thinks its more like curry brie!

I am think about giving his some milk kefir, or even bits of milk kefir grains--maybe I'll cross-post around and get a consensus...I do have a good feeling about it...I had rubbed a little kefir on when he had a little diaper rash once and it seemed so soothing, so I think it agrees with him...
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#203 of 216 Old 07-23-2008, 03:43 AM
 
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what if the poos smell like vinegar?

They are also green and full of mucous, just in case that info is relevant.

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#204 of 216 Old 07-23-2008, 11:50 AM
 
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what if the poos smell like vinegar?

They are also green and full of mucous, just in case that info is relevant.
It could be an overgrowth of yeast. Are you giving allergy-free probiotics? I'd probably start there.
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#205 of 216 Old 10-02-2008, 05:48 PM
 
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http://www.medindia.net/news/view_news_main.asp?x=15120

Kefir, a traditional fermented drink, is generally used as a weaning food. The researchers found that it has "friendly" bacteria that may function in obstructing the pathway involved in allergic responses.

This milk drink also prevented the antigens found in food to pass through the intestinal wall.


http://www.foodsciencecentral.com/fsc/bulletin-ff-free

Russians give their babies milk kefir diluted with water when they're as young as 4 months old.


"Milk kefir and soymilk kefir may be considered among the more promising food components in terms of preventing food allergy and enhancement of mucosal resistance to gastrointestinal pathogen infection."
http://allergy.immunodefence.com/200...lp-f.html#more


'Feeding babies kefir may help to protect against some food allergies.'
ETA: http://www.bio-medicine.org/biology-...ergies-3993-1/



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#206 of 216 Old 10-02-2008, 06:27 PM
 
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http://www.medindia.net/news/view_news_main.asp?x=15120

Kefir, a traditional fermented drink, is generally used as a weaning food. The researchers found that it has "friendly" bacteria that may function in obstructing the pathway involved in allergic responses.

This milk drink also prevented the antigens found in food to pass through the intestinal wall.


http://www.foodsciencecentral.com/fsc/bulletin-ff-free

Russians give their babies milk kefir diluted with water when they're as young as 4 months old.


"Milk kefir and soymilk kefir may be considered among the more promising food components in terms of preventing food allergy and enhancement of mucosal resistance to gastrointestinal pathogen infection."
http://allergy.immunodefence.com/200...lp-f.html#more




Pat
This is really fascinating. Do you know if milk kefir and water kefir produce the same type of bacteria and yeast? I just wonder if water kefir has the same effect on the body (IgE and IgG, etc.). I keep meaning to buy some water kefir grains and start drinking this. I'm feeling much more motivated now!
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#207 of 216 Old 10-02-2008, 06:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache View Post
This is really fascinating. Do you know if milk kefir and water kefir produce the same type of bacteria and yeast? I just wonder if water kefir has the same effect on the body (IgE and IgG, etc.). I keep meaning to buy some water kefir grains and start drinking this. I'm feeling much more motivated now!
The short version is that water kefir has about 30 microbials. Milk kefir about 37. Kombucha has about 27 microbials. Coconut (young Thai coconut) water kefir has additional benefits from enzymes and other micronutrients (from the coconut water), etc. Goat's milk kefir is most easily digestible after coconut milk kefir, from my understanding. I could search for 15 minutes and find references. But, that is the gist.

The studies regarding obstructing allergic gut leaking were done with milk kefir. They don't know what aspect of the kefir is beneficial yet.

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#208 of 216 Old 11-11-2008, 08:12 PM
 
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Bumping.

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#209 of 216 Old 11-11-2008, 11:07 PM
 
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Does anyone want to point me in the right direction to make some soy milk or coconut water kefir?

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#210 of 216 Old 11-12-2008, 01:16 AM
 
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Does anyone want to point me in the right direction to make some soy milk or coconut water kefir?
We do raw Guernsey cow's milk kefir and grape juice kefir with milk kefir grains. Neither of my guys who are intolerant of dairy have an issue with those.

Making water kefir is a bit trickier, but I haven't made it. The "Kefir_Making" yahoogroup is my resource: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kefir_making/

Also, the "Got Kefir?" thread here is amazing. It has a bunch of recipes for using kefir also. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=203282 It has everything you ever wanted to know about kefir. And links to the King of Kefir: Dom in AU: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefirpage.html

You can get kefir grains (water and dairy), or yogurt starter (no yogurt maker required) from Dogmom, an MDC member. http://www.culturesforhealth.com/zen/

There are many current threads about making kefir on the Tradional Foods forum.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=997581
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=997319
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ht=water+kefir
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ht=water+kefir

Store bought raw, organic kombucha has signficant quantities of Saccharomyces Boulardii which helps to recolonize the gut and displace candida. Consider it also for a healthy gut. Or make homemade kombucha, but again that is trickier.

For ease, dairy kefir can be done by a child of three years old even. I like simple.


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