Reaction to kale?! - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
kullrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Milton, MA
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quick question for everyone...We had scaled Ava's diet back to turkey, apples, sweet potatoes, squash, rice cereal and pear to try and see how her skin responded (she was still having some breakouts now and again, plus the redness/cracking at ankles and behind knees). We had done this for a couple of weeks and decided to slowly add some new things. I talked to our naturopath and we decided that kale would be a good next step (something green, but not gassy like brocolii; which we had tried in the past).
SO she has had kale a couple of times over the past several days. 1/2 an ice cubes worth on Wednesday, 1/2 on Thursday then yesterday she had 2 ice cubes worth. Before she went down last night she took a very loose green poop and had the worst rash on her bum and vagina that obviously hurt her since she cried bloody murder when I cleaned her up. Another bm in the middle of the night that was not as loose but huge. Same response when I cleaned her, then this am another watery poop (looked like urine but I knew it wasn't becuase of the color).
Coule she possibly have an allergic reaction to kale or is it more likely that it was just too much fiber all at once and that caused the loose stool, which in turn caused the redness? There was no skin reaction at all - ironically her skin looks better today...
Also, any tips as to what I can use to alleviate the discomfort? We have a weleda diaper cream that I've been using. Should I avoid wipes (we use Seventh Generation) and use luke warm water instead?
She is 10 months old and has never had diaper rash or bowel issues; despite her allergies. She is acting totally fine otherwise and no fever. I should add she is teething and just got off a bad cold last week...
Thank you all in advance!
kullrich is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 03:06 PM
 
Punchy Kaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 1,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Kale is moderate in oxalates. Have you looked into oxalates in her diet yet? It can be very irritating to the intestinal tract. Sweet potatoes are high in oxalates. Do you give her any probiotics? If you wanted to try a low oxalate diet you could try maybe acorn squash, yellow split peas (cooked very well), turkey or lamb, turkey broth/stock, avocado, cooked peaches.

You can give her a bath with a lot of baking soda (try 3-4 cups), that will help ease the itch. You can also try small amounts of epsom salts in the bath, start slowly because if she is detoxing something that is irritating her system it will come through her skin and could irritate it more. So maybe start with 1 Tablespoon.

Here is a list of oxalate status in foods:
http://www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm

We create our own reality.
Punchy Kaby is offline  
#3 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 03:19 PM
 
elmh23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where it's hot!
Posts: 9,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Honestly, for a 10 month old, I would just stop giving her solids. Breastmilk or formula are all that are necessary!

As for the diaper rash, if you could get her some air that helps a lot. Also for my kids, oatmeal baths work wonders, but if she reacts to that don't do it. I'd stop using any cream on her, jic it is irritating her. Water instead of wipes would probably help, but for my dd it made it worse (we could only use Pampers and Kirkland brand wipes with her.)

Good luck!

Mama of three.
 
elmh23 is offline  
#4 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 03:25 PM
 
caedmyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I highly doubt the fiber had anything to do with it. It's possible that she didn't digest the kale, which might cause account for the color of the stool, but stool changes and diaper rash are an indication that she's reacting to the food itself. IMO it's pretty unlikely that she's actually intolerant to the kale itself, but food chemical sensitivities are pretty common, as Nolansmum mentioned. You might also look into salicylate or amine reactions (they're naturally occurring food chemicals)--her current diet is pretty low in food chemicals without the kale.

Also, since she has problems with allergies and eczema, IMO it would be a good idea to take the rice cereal out of her diet. Babies don't produce the enzyme that they need to digest grains until they are at least a year old, and grains can do a lot of damage to their guts if they eat them too early, particularly in a baby who already shows evidence of gut damage (food intolerances and eczema).

And if she's nursing, have you checked your diet to make sure nothing has changed there?
caedmyn is offline  
#5 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 04:06 PM
 
Chinese Pistache's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Under a shady tree, you and me
Posts: 5,854
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree with the others. For someone with a compromised gut due to food allergies, they can become very sensitive to food chemicals like salycilates and amines. The list I have doesn't specifically list kale, but spinach and other dark greens are high in food chemicals. I would work on healing her gut with probiotics, among other things. I'm assuming your diet is as clean as hers? It would need to be if you're bfing. You would probably also benefit from a regimen of probiotics, digestive enzymes, fish oil, etc.
Chinese Pistache is offline  
#6 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
kullrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Milton, MA
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
First, thank you so much for all of this information - it is very helpful.
A couple of thoughts..

First, she is still going to bathroom after every meal/bottle. It is very pale green and liquidy and smells very potent (sour almost). No fever, no apparent gas and she is in a great mood - except when we have to change her and clean her bum. She is eating and drinking well.

It is interesting that my naturopathic doctor recommended the kale based on the oxalate information you all provided. Ava has been eating a lot of sweet potatoes which haven't seemed to bother her to date; but perhaps it has contributed to our inability to get her skin full clear. I don't know anything about oxalates and their impact on the system so I will read more about it tonight.

I had posted the other day about our probiotic situation. The one our doctor recommended (entrin children's probiotic by emerson ecologics); which was supposed to be allergy free, listed on the webiste that it might contain trace amounts of dairy and soy (she's allergice to both) so I am holding off until I can pick up another brand at whole foods this weekend.

I stopped breast feeding at 6 1/2 months. I was not happy about it but her system was reacting to everything and I had literally cut every known allergen out of my diet (and was diligent). She is now on alimentum formula. It killed me to stop breast feeding but I really felt it was in her best interest.
As I mentioned she has never ever had a diaper rash so this is new to us. I'll try the baking soda in the a luke warm bath tonight and see if that helps.

THank you again for all of your input; I really appreciate it.

PS: please don't judge me about the breast feeding decision - it was a very hard one to make and I beat myself up enough about it as it is!
kullrich is offline  
#7 of 15 Old 12-29-2007, 11:39 PM
 
Punchy Kaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 1,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know how hard it is to deal with food allergies, we have the same situation going on here. It is very frustrating dealing with such elusive intolerances.

Probiotics are very important especially because she is no longer breastfeeding. I would look into a probiotic made by Custom Probiotics. It is dairy free and soy free. http://www.customprobiotics.com/
There are others out there that are casein free but I am no longer familiar with them...

Do you give CLO and Omega 3 fish oil? These are very important in helping the body with inflammation. Digestive enzymes with meals would also help her digest food better.

The green poop sounds like she could have some bacterial overgrowth. Can you have her urine and her stool tested?

Have you tried going back to just alimentum formula? Does her rash completely go away or is it still there? Have you made changes to the environmental stuff like laundry detergent and a dust free bedroom?

We create our own reality.
Punchy Kaby is offline  
#8 of 15 Old 12-30-2007, 12:01 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 11,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Don't knock your ND just yet. There are so many things that *could* be happening she has no way of controlling for all of them. This was a reasonable next step (it is moderate in oxalates, not high) and you may have to work together based on the results. This is information. That's all.

You're getting good info here. I know it's frustrating! Hang in there.
Panserbjorne is offline  
#9 of 15 Old 12-30-2007, 12:13 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 11,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kullrich View Post
I had posted the other day about our probiotic situation. The one our doctor recommended (entrin children's probiotic by emerson ecologics); which was supposed to be allergy free, listed on the webiste that it might contain trace amounts of dairy and soy (she's allergice to both) so I am holding off until I can pick up another brand at whole foods this weekend.

!
You aren't going to have great luck at WF. The only couple I found that fit the bill were Natren's dairy free and one from Custom Probiotics. It is REALLY hard to get allergen free probiotics.
Panserbjorne is offline  
#10 of 15 Old 12-30-2007, 07:04 PM
 
caedmyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Food chemical sensitivities aren't very well known, so it's not really surprising if your naturopath doesn't know anything about them. IMO, though, salicylate sensitivity is a lot more common than oxalate sensitivity and would account for both your DD's multiple food intolerances/allergies (in animal studies salicylate intolerance led to development of food intolerances) and her seeming to react to everything when you were BF'ing. Here's a couple of websites on food chemical intolerances www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info
www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.com
caedmyn is offline  
#11 of 15 Old 12-30-2007, 11:01 PM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 11,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Food chemicals are being talked about quite a bit in naturopathy schools now...every program I looked at included them in the biochem classes. It's good to know that people are keeping up with the times. Also a good reason to see a recent grad!
Panserbjorne is offline  
#12 of 15 Old 12-30-2007, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
kullrich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Milton, MA
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks so everyone for your thoughts and I will continue to explore the food chemical sensitivities and discuss them with my ND. I really love my doctor and am so happy to be working with her.
The feedback I have received got me thinking about her last flare up from a few weeks back. We had given her a couple of new things - carrots, brocolli and prunes and she ended up with scaly red patches on her legs and trunk. I thought it was the carrots but my ND thought it was unlikely. When I thought about it more the prunes seem the much more likely culprit. When I looked at the container they were preserved with potassium nitrate (or sorbate - I got rid of the container so I can't double check). I bet the preservative is what might have aggravated her....
Ava slept through the night last night and only had one BM today. Her rash was definitely better today and didn't seem to bother her when she was changed.
This is definitely a hit or miss process and is taking quite a bit of patience but she is a millions times better than she was back in the summer. This forum is an amazing resource and I am SO glad I found it...
Thank you again and Happy New Year!
kullrich is offline  
#13 of 15 Old 12-31-2007, 10:07 AM
 
caedmyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,226
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dried fruits usually have sulphites in them, unless they're organic...sulfites don't have to be listed on the labels. Also, dried fruits are all very high in salicylates...and broccoli is high in amines and has a fair amount of salicylates, too. Food chemicals are in almost everything!

Anyhow, good luck with your search, hope you find the answers soon!
caedmyn is offline  
#14 of 15 Old 12-31-2007, 10:54 AM
 
Panserbjorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Great North
Posts: 11,992
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
People with thyroid issues can have pretty extreme allergic reactions to carrots (and anything else high in beta carotene.) It is also not an uncommon allergen. All three of my kids have issues with carrots. The older two blood tested allergic and my youngest had a near ANA reaction. It isn't a food chemical thing, it's a biochemical thing. There's ALOT to look at. Just don't discount anything and trust your mama instincts.
Panserbjorne is offline  
#15 of 15 Old 12-31-2007, 11:08 PM
 
Punchy Kaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Here there and everywhere
Posts: 1,787
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
People with thyroid issues can have pretty extreme allergic reactions to carrots (and anything else high in beta carotene.) It is also not an uncommon allergen. All three of my kids have issues with carrots. The older two blood tested allergic and my youngest had a near ANA reaction. It isn't a food chemical thing, it's a biochemical thing. There's ALOT to look at. Just don't discount anything and trust your mama instincts.
This is interesting, I haven't heard it before. Thanks for bringing this up!

We create our own reality.
Punchy Kaby is offline  
Reply

User Tag List



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off