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#481 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 12:45 AM
 
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So Calm, you said that you can't overdose on probiotics... I have these Strawberry flavored Acidophilis wafers. It says it's for adults, 1 tablet 3x day. It's Lactobacillus aciophilus and Lactobacillus Bifidus. It says 115 mg per wafer and the front says "one billion organisms guaranteed" (it doesn't say if that's per wafer or per bottle). I was giving them to DD and DS, even though it says it's for an adult, because it's a probiotic (and thinking you can't overdose on them). Turns out, they have corn in them, which is what was causing DD's "folliculitis" rash. But DS can have corn. So even though it's an "adult dose", is it okay to give a child acidophilus in that amount? He's the one that failed the saliva-yeast test with me.

Also, you mentioned something about having a lot of sauerkraut but I can't figure out what you were responding to in someone else's thread. How much saurkraut is "alot"? I just made a batch last week and I've been having some every day (my Threelac still hasn't arrived). But I'll eat as much as I need to if it will help kill the yeasties!! I'm 6 days without antibiotics -- this is the longest time off antibiotics in two and a half YEARS, without a UTI). I'm taking potassium, Candex, acidophilus (I was taking the ABx support probiotic but I ran out a few days ago) and doing my "alkalize the body" thing with lemon in my water all day, and cut out a lot of the meats, and doing more leafy greens, and not much fruit or sugar (the sugar is the hardest part for me) and eating saurkraut (my kefir didn't work).

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#482 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 12:51 AM
 
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Kjbrown, I believe we have those exact probiotics and they are a chewable white disc about the size of a nickle. I give those to ds and take some, if I am in a hurry.

I was wondering about you today. Glad to hear your update.

What happened with your kefir? I love my kefir.


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#483 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 12:54 AM
 
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Yes, they sound like the same ones (mine are made by American Health). So I'm not hurting my kid by giving her "adult medicine" right? I thought probiotics were okay for kids...

I made coconut water kefir. None of the kids liked it. I didn't like it either. Even in a smoothie. And after only 1 day in the fridge (after the counter time) it smelled REALLY gross. So I don't know if I did something wrong. I have the other packets in the fridge. The only other thing I can do is water kefir since I don't know what else I can grow it in.... unless coconut milk?

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#484 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 02:57 AM
 
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And I'm sad because [not allowed for discussion :]. I feel so misunderstood!
Are you kidding? Did you send a message to someone to let them know what it is? I will send a message too!! Who do you think I should PM?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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#485 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 04:25 AM
 
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Wow, I'm having a lightbulb moment!!!
I can't make it through this whole thread right now but I want to add my anecdotal reply.

DD1 was born vaginally, although my midwife gave me an antibiotic since my water had been broken so long. She has milk intolerance, other suspected intolerances, mild allergies.

DD2 was born via emergency c-section. She has asthma and all kinds of tummy troubles. Very "acidic" smelling loose poo several days a week. She also has a huge problem with dairy so we are dairy free as much as possible.

Both of my girls have behavioral issues that I am going crazy trying to figure out, as I know they are related to whatever is going on in their little bodies. I'm looking forward to reading the thread.
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#486 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 05:32 AM
 
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babblingbrook i hope that you can figure out how to help your little ones.

i think that the healing the gut tribe and the sticky called the healing the gut cheat sheet in health and healing would be really helpful for you.

also in my experience eliminating allergins "as much as possible" is not enough. it usually needs to be 110%.
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#487 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 10:12 AM
 
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I made coconut water kefir. None of the kids liked it. I didn't like it either. Even in a smoothie. And after only 1 day in the fridge (after the counter time) it smelled REALLY gross. So I don't know if I did something wrong. I have the other packets in the fridge. The only other thing I can do is water kefir since I don't know what else I can grow it in.... unless coconut milk?
We do water kefir here and we all just love it (and my friend as well who is a total Mt. Dew addict). After I do the initial brew I put a small amount of juice in (like 1 c for 1 gallon of kefir) and referment for 24 hrs and then refrigerate. Yesterday I tried pomegranate (100%) and it is great as well. My reasoning is that is more good than harm to the yeast since the juice is a small amount.

Happily Married to my : 11 yrs- Mama to wild-eyed monkey boy 7-04, fiery little girl 4-07, and the happy smiley baby that sleeps 11-09!
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#488 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 11:12 AM
 
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CM,

What's your recipe for the initial brew? Do you really do a gallon at a time?

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#489 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 11:58 AM
 
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I do 2 half gallons at a time- so yeah a gallon at a time. I use 1/4 c of sugar (turbinado) per qrt. and that is it. I don't add anything else, I have read you are supposed to add ginger or lemon or both, but I have never gotten around to it. I cover it w/ paper towels or cloth first brew, then strain the grains and then brew w/ the lid firmly on top.

Happily Married to my : 11 yrs- Mama to wild-eyed monkey boy 7-04, fiery little girl 4-07, and the happy smiley baby that sleeps 11-09!
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#490 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 12:00 PM
 
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Calm, my DS can't have cane sugar but he can have maple syrup (which he has 2 morning with millet pancakes and buckwheat pancakes). That's the only sweetener he gets, and he doesn't do much fruit (1 day out of 4 he can have grape juice). He does eat a ton of meat though. Is that okay for a yeast diet, or should I try to cut out the maple syrup as well? I've been putting the oregano oil on his feet (tried giving it in water but that didn't go over well). And even though DD passed the saliva test, she has intolerances, and she's my c-section baby so should I be treating her as if she has yeast? I've been rubbing the oregano oil on her feet too. That's all I'm doing so far for them (since I haven't gotten my Threelac). DS gets the acidophilus. DD doesn't get it anymore!!

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#491 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 12:38 PM
 
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So to say that the eos are our allergy cells is bogus, and missing the point. The technical way to look at eos is to say they are "raised during allergic responses".

Their real job is to... brace yerself... fight parasites. A raised eos result most often means your body is fighting a parasitic infection. In an attempt to reference this, I googled eosinophilia and parasitic infection and got many hits, this is one of them (I don't vouch for this site, it's just one of the results):

To explain how parasites cause cancer takes a lot more room and energy than we have here. I can recommend some books on the subject, books that also contain the cure. But we won't go that route unless you learn that you are on that route for sure. In the meantime, we can confidently say you indeed are fighting something, and this something is messing up your gut. It is almost certainly located there.

It may be yeast. But I think it is more likely a power punch combo of that and some other nasties, as your eos are pretty darn high.
ok, im sorry to rehash, but i have been trying to read through every piece of information and advice thoroughly so as not to miss anything. i feel everything people have offered me here and on my thread is very valuable info! calm, i would love some recommendations for reading on the topic of cancer caused by parasites. i did look at the website you posted last night, but i need more time to read it.
we are well into our second week on fluconazole for yeast and now i am hoping to tackle the poss parasites. i have not had another eos count done yet, but will on friday. i already have calls into my holistic ped and my current oncologist for recommendations for second opinions.
i know that you addressed this already with chlobo, but we have such a difficult time taking herbals that dd doesnt react to via my bm (so far she reacted to milk thistle, licorice root for her reflux, a gripe water that contains:dillweed seed oil, caraway seed oil, cinnamon bark oil, clove bud oil, cardamom seed oil). so i am trying to figure out if there is any treatment for the possible parasites that might be more easily tolerated than others for dd. i know anybody can be allergic to anything, but have you found any of these herbals more often tolerated in your experience?
i looked at the olive leaf oil which looks really promising and Black Walnut Green Hull, Cloves & Wormwood leaves and flowers which might be a problemo, considering you seem very wary of the wormwood during bf and dd has already reacted to something containing cloves.

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Unfortunately, I haven't even had a chance to suggest any kind of nourishment in this thread. I mean to and then I get caught up in something else here :. As the main thing (particularly in cancer, actually) is to eradicate the invaders, I always go for the kill. However, the need for nourishment is massive.

I did see one theory that says the nourishment is taken up by invaders before it gets to you, and this intrigued me and also explained why malnourishment was occurring in those it logically shouldn't be. Another reason to rid the body of them to make best use of the food/medicine.

FF, I'm interested in knowing your position on that. On large parasites or a large infestation, particularly in the gut, and how that affects assimilation. How to treat assimilation without first eradicating the invader that is not only front line, but damaging the organism's ability to assimilate?
i am interested in this too. i keep hearing from family and in other places that you need to starve out cancer and parasites. is this true? doesnt it make you more likely to succumb to cancer and parasites if your body is depleted?
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#492 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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So I was reading on one of the alternative lyme boards that I visit that they believe that you can eradicate parasites by using a salt/vit c protocol. You take large amounts of both together and they cause the parasites to die.

Can anyone tell me why this would be bunk? It just seems to easy to work.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#493 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 02:03 PM
 
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I sent them an email explaining my website. Did they even look at it? I mean, I do have a page that links you to books that I've found helpful, on amazon, that I supposedly get a dime for if someone buys it, which no one has ever done. I don't know if that's what makes it a business. I've been adamant about NOT making any money off other people's troubles so I was very upset that someone thinks I'm trying to profit from it. I just want to help other mamas and it made me come unglued last night. Irishmommy is who sent me the private message saying she took out my link.
I just PM'ed her- just reiterating that it is a link for your PERSONAL blog, and that it is a huge service to all the mamas in the Allergy forum, so we would really appreciate her returning the link.

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So I was reading on one of the alternative lyme boards that I visit that they believe that you can eradicate parasites by using a salt/vit c protocol. You take large amounts of both together and they cause the parasites to die.

Can anyone tell me why this would be bunk? It just seems to easy to work.
That sounds just too easy to be true! I could even do that.... would love to know more.

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
geek.gif I blog about our life with food allergies and eosinophilic disorders.
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#494 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 02:12 PM
 
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it does sound too easy. could it be safe? i can take sea salt and vit c both.
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#495 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 02:53 PM
 
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Oooh, I'm interested in the sea salt-vitamin C protocol too. We can't do cloves, or most oils, or olive (don't know about olive leaf). Wormwood is certainly AWESOME medicine and a staple (topically) in our home.

chicken3.gif   We're remote ECing, unschooling, free ranging goat dairy farmers.  

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#496 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 02:56 PM
 
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here is one of the websites that talks about it. There must be a reason why this would be bad for you but I don't know enough to know why.

http://www.lymephotos.com/

It talks specifically about lyme but I've read about parasites in other places which escape my sieve of a mind at the moment.

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#497 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 03:02 PM
 
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it does sound too easy. could it be safe? i can take sea salt and vit c both.
well, this does help in the removal of halogens and I have read it before for parasites. I have no experience with it for that purpose, but it's certainly widely used in treating iodine deficiency.

Is in Doctor Simonici that attributes pretty much ALL cases of cancer to yeast overgrowth? Anyone? I am going to go and pull up what I can on that. He has had astonishing success in treating this way.

Another person that I personally have been looking to in terms of info on cancer is Hamer and he has ALOT to offer. His work is fascinating and has come up again for me in researching sequential therapy.

I will say that this is the area in which Calm and I tend to differ so I will let her take the reigns on the whole parasite issue. I will offer what I can but honestly my views on this and my successes are not something most people are willing to think about.
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#498 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 03:11 PM
 
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i am interested in this too. i keep hearing from family and in other places that you need to starve out cancer and parasites. is this true? doesnt it make you more likely to succumb to cancer and parasites if your body is depleted?
You need to starve out parasites in that you need to create an environment in which an overgrowth of parasites is no longer beneficial to you. They are there because they are working. Now, is it what you want? NO! It is my stance (pretty firmly, actually) that parasites are only an issue when an imbalance is created. They are there in response to the imbalance. There have been several papers published on this recently. Now, the answer is to starve them out so that they no longer need to be there...but what does that look like? There are several regimens that I have found to be effective. We can talk more about that if you like. I'll go grab some papers and post.
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#499 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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The Worm Turns



By MOISES VELASQUEZ-MANOFF
Published: June 29, 2008
In the early 1990s, Joel Weinstock, a gastroenterologist, encountered a puzzle. The prevalence of inflammatory bowel disease (I.B.D.) across North America increased markedly during the 20th century. Many thought that "bad" genes would eventually explain the spike, but Weinstock didn't buy it. In areas where fewer than two generations ago the I.B.D. incidence might have been as low as 1 in 10,000, it was now 1 in 250. A defective gene couldn't spread that quickly, he reasoned. It had to be something in the environment. But what? Stumped, Weinstock tried turning the question around. Instead of asking what triggered I.B.D., he asked what, before the 20th century, protected against it?

At the time, Weinstock, then at the University of Iowa, was editing a book on parasitic worms. These worms, or helminths, have a paradoxical effect on the host. Rather than induce inflammation, which is the body's typical response to invasion, the intruders calm the host immune system. They force a peace, scientists think, to avoid eviction and keep the host - their home and food source - as healthy as possible. As Weinstock considered the I.B.D. puzzle, he wondered if immune manipulation by worms could incidentally protect against other diseases.

Comparison of the prevalence of I.B.D. and surveys of worm-infestation rates revealed a telling pattern. About 10 years after improved hygiene and deworming efforts reduced worms in a given population, I.B.D. rates jumped. Weinstock had his hypothesis: after a long coevolution, the human immune system came to depend on the worms for proper functioning. When cleaner conditions and new medicines evicted the worms from our bodies, the immune system went out of kilter. "Hygiene has made our lives better," says Weinstock, now at Tufts University. "But in the process of eliminating exposure to the 10 or 20 things that can make us sick, we're also eliminating exposure to things that make us well."

At the time of Weinstock's initial musings, epidemiologists had already dubbed this notion "the hygiene hypothesis": as improved hygiene reduced exposure to certain infectious agents, the immune system began malfunctioning. By the late 20th century, autoimmune disorders, characterized by the body's defenses attacking some aspect of the self, had increased markedly, and allergic diseases, defined by an overblown immune response to nonthreatening substances, afflicted almost half the people in the developed world.

If eliminating worms led to an increase in disease, could re-introducing worms actually treat these diseases? In mice, the answer was yes. Worms were used to "inoculate" against mouse asthma, Type 1 diabetes, multiple sclerosis and I.B.D. But how to re-worm humans? We got rid of them for a reason. Too many worms can lead to anemia or obstructed bowels. The wrong kind can cause considerable suffering, even death.

Weinstock spotted a prime candidate on pig farms. Pig farmers are chronically exposed to Trichuris suis, the pig whipworm, and tolerate it with no apparent side effects. (This is not the potentially dangerous worm found in undercooked pork.)

In 2005, he published results from two human studies. After ingesting 2,500 microscopic T. suis eggs at 3-week intervals for 24 weeks, 23 of 29 Crohn's patients responded positively. (Crohn's disease belongs to the I.B.D. family, which also includes ulcerative colitis.) Twenty-one went into complete remission. In the second study, 13 of 30 ulcerative colitis patients improved compared with 4 in the 24-person placebo group.

Scientists around the world are intrigued. Several large studies are under way. Trials using T. suis eggs on patients with multiple sclerosis, Crohn's and hay fever are beginning in the United States, Australia and Denmark, respectively. In Germany, scientists are planning studies on asthma and food allergies. Other European scientists, meanwhile, plan to replicate many of these experiments with Necator americanus, a human hookworm.

When scientists unravel how helminths manipulate the immune system - work is already under way - Weinstock foresees new worm-based drugs. But that may be a long way off, he says. Anyway, the pill approach risks missing the greater lesson. As he says, "We're part of our environment; we're not separate from it." It's a simple observation with profound implications that are changing how scientists view the human organism. The dawning realization is this: You are not just your genetic self. You are a community of interacting organisms. This You ecosystem includes the bacteria that outnumber your genetic cells by 10 to 1, various fungi, viruses and just maybe a few parasites as well. Disturb or remove any key player, and the whole system can come unbalanced.

Moises Velasquez-Manoff is a writer living in New York.
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#500 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 03:19 PM
 
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#501 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 06:36 PM
 
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So FF, are you saying you don't think we should eliminate parasites? Wouldn't they just repopulate after treatment and possibly in more appropriate numbers?

Or are you saying we need to fix the things that allowed the overgrowth & the body will take care of the overgrowth itself? If so, how do you know what caused the overgrowth?

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#502 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 06:48 PM
 
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I'm more in the second camp. This is also where I think homeopathy can be invaluable (becuase of the inherited miasms) however for me I would prefer to make the adjustments and allow the body to regulate. Not everyone feels that way. It can detract from your quality of life, and if that's the case then I don't think it's the road to follow. And, with kiddos you can't force them so it depends alot on that dynamic too.

To address the first point, no. I think if you wipe out the flora then opportunistic bugs will take hold preventing a healthier population. Calm has done a great job explaining the pH thing and that's a huge part of this. What's the point of wiping things out if you aren't willing to change your lifestyle/diet to support the new environment?

I'm not saying this is the be all end all article either, just one perspective. But it happens to be mine as well. We have disagreed about this before on this thread and I respect Calm's opinion, but we do not share it. I do not think eradicating yeast is necessarily the best choice, as I have said there are things that can sequester it in the body and certain nutritional deficiencies that foster the growth of yeast. Why wipe it out if you don't address those things? It's just going to come back. I feel the same about parasites-and yes. I have dealt personally with them as I have with yeast. I'm not theorizing in the absence of experience.

So, I'm not in favor of a parasite overgrowth, but I do feel that it's pointless most of the time to eradicate them without addressing the cause. I know I'm a broken record, but if you don't what's the point? Environment matters. Ecology matters. You need to address the whole and IMO that is not separate from the energetic mental aspect.
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#503 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 06:51 PM
 
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adding....remember that old Susun Weed thread? I started off on that saying she isn't wrong-but not because of her conclusion. I don't think that yeast is a helper in that we should cultivate it and give it a permanent home. I think it's a tip off that things aren't right and that we have work to do. I think the same about parasites. I just worry that important (essential) aspect gets lost in the battle cry.
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#504 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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I totally understand what you are saying, but, for the love of a duck, how does one figure out know what caused what, what is the root of the problem and how to fix it? And what do you do if you are fairly ill/depleted in the short run while you are waiting for the long term fix?

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#505 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:00 PM
 
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I do not think eradicating yeast is necessarily the best choice, as I have said there are things that can sequester it in the body and certain nutritional deficiencies that foster the growth of yeast. Why wipe it out if you don't address those things? It's just going to come back.
Firefaery - I'm sorry if I missed this in a prior post, but how exactly do you suggest dealing with the yeast? I am pretty sure I have a yeast problem. In addition to scoring highly on some questionaires, I just got back IgG test results and tested positive to brewers and bakers yeast. The materials that came with the results say this indicates a sensitivity to yeast, mold and ferments and suggests an anti-yeast diet. My homeopath (who is also DD's pediatrician) has told me to take nothing that could be suppressive, which includes a lot of the things posted on this thread. She said I could do bone broth, probiotics, CLO, and GSE for gut-healing and yeast if I tolerate it ok. What are your thoughts on this?
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#506 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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I also have a question for Calm. I finally took the zinc test you mentioned a while ago and the zinc had absolutely no taste. I take it this means I am zinc deficient. How much should I take as a supplement? What exactly does zinc do and what symptoms will a deficiency cause?
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#507 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:30 PM
 
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I also have a question for Calm. I finally took the zinc test you mentioned a while ago and the zinc had absolutely no taste. I take it this means I am zinc deficient. How much should I take as a supplement? What exactly does zinc do and what symptoms will a deficiency cause?
zinc deficiency is a culprit in suppressed immunity, slow hair and nail growth, lack of appetite and smell, depression, cell integrity amongst other things. Most adults do well around 30 mg a day, but in times of illness can take twice that. You CAN overdose on zinc, but if you can't taste it that's not likely-lol. I take about 50 mg a day as I am deficient. You can take a peek and see what you think about this.
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#508 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:35 PM
 
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Firefaery - I'm sorry if I missed this in a prior post, but how exactly do you suggest dealing with the yeast? I am pretty sure I have a yeast problem. In addition to scoring highly on some questionaires, I just got back IgG test results and tested positive to brewers and bakers yeast. The materials that came with the results say this indicates a sensitivity to yeast, mold and ferments and suggests an anti-yeast diet. My homeopath (who is also DD's pediatrician) has told me to take nothing that could be suppressive, which includes a lot of the things posted on this thread. She said I could do bone broth, probiotics, CLO, and GSE for gut-healing and yeast if I tolerate it ok. What are your thoughts on this?


I'm in complete agreement. I would do a diet modification and use nutrient supplementation. I would also wonder about metals if it's chronic. Just FYI brewer's yeast and baker's yeast aren't the same as candida. There's alot of controversy over those indications. Where those your only issues on the IgG panel?

You can look at the pH info, that should be perfectly fine with your homeopath. Is she treating you? What's your remedy? Do you have any symtoms of gut issues or yeast? I'm assuming yes, but what are they? Has she suggested ANY dietary modification? What does your current diet look like? How do you feel?
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#509 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:41 PM
 
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Are there online informational places that "teach" naturopathy? Sorry, I know it's OT, but there is so much information from you guys, and I want to READ more about it (as opposed to just going to another naturopath and them telling me something). I'm a studier/researcher, but I want reliable sources. I feel like I'm trying the many pronged approach because I'm trying to defeat the yeast (diet and supplement), make the body more alkaline (diet), cure my UTIs (supplements and the previous 2 things), plus heal my gut and my kids' guts. I don't necessarily want someone to say, "take this". I want to know the whys. There have been so many good things brought up on this forum the last few days, that I never questioned and never thought about (like getting 6 Rhogam shots with my 3 children; I never realized it was an option). I've got supplements lining my windowshelf and I want to know MORE!

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#510 of 1043 Old 11-17-2008, 07:42 PM
 
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I totally understand what you are saying, but, for the love of a duck, how does one figure out know what caused what, what is the root of the problem and how to fix it? And what do you do if you are fairly ill/depleted in the short run while you are waiting for the long term fix?
unfortunately you need someone competent helping you. I know that's been problematic for your family in terms of getting people on the same page. You've done ALOT. In your ds's case there was a structural issue which was dealt with...but pretty late in the game. That does affect gut function, but you had something going on for that to develop too. So really while ds needs help you probably have most of the clues in your own body. I still do wonder about metals in your case. There is something that isn't allowing you to be completely nourished though and that needs to be found. You are depleted-BIG TIME at this point. You have done most all that you can do without testing IMO. You need some answers. Either that or you just need a great practitioner that really understands what they are doing. Easier said than done, I know. I had high hopes for the integrative medical doc. Argh.
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