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#61 of 1043 Old 09-01-2008, 06:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kalamos23 View Post
Someone mentioned the possibility of an epidural also having abx added - is this a common thing?
I don't believe so.


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#62 of 1043 Old 09-01-2008, 06:56 PM
 
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Calm could you address the candida? (and NAET)

And I'll chime in with water kefir advocacy: http://www.weim.net/homeovet/Docs/water%20kefir.pdf

Jane, want to chime in about CLO? I can never recall the latest, "Blue Ice" high vitamin CLO? with *natural* vit A, not palmitate, I think. (caution lead/mercury contaminants in some CLO

Firefaery, want to chime in about grain/gluten free options? And hit the homeopathy/energy alternatives for the allergies! We do classical homeopathy and it has significantly helped dh's allergies.

Jane, enzymes? I'm still trying to understand them.

Anyone have suggestions for whole food vitamin supplements without the latest *lead* concerns?


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#63 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 02:45 PM
 
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Calm could you address the candida? (and NAET)

And I'll chime in with water kefir advocacy: http://www.weim.net/homeovet/Docs/water%20kefir.pdf
Thank you for this! I am going to just start out with the starters from Body Ecology. I am feeling too "stupid" to go beyond that just yet. I hope to "graduate" to the better stuff down the road, once I get a handle on this kind of thing.

Jane
:yawning: :Mama to Erik (11) ASD:, Severe Dyslexia, Julie (8) asthma, eczema and Christopher 17 mo NT so far and unvaccinated :
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#64 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 03:32 PM
 
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Jane, enzymes? I'm still trying to understand them.


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nak

i'm not Jane (though she's so awesome I wish I was) but the "enzymes for autism" book by karen defelice is excellent. Don't be fooled by the title, it's really all about enzymes.
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#65 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 04:33 PM
 
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thanks for the kefir link. I have some dried kefir crystals I need to resconstitute & I lost the directions.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#66 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 04:40 PM
 
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I don't think everyone's issues are due to yeast overgrowth. But I sure as sh!t know when I see someone with yeast overgrowth.
How do you know? I don't have any of the classic red flags but I have had two babies who were extremely sensitive. Neither have any dx IgE allergies (yet) but are clearly sensitive to something. Despite months of an elmination diet & taking CLO, glutamine & probiotics (for me) & probiotics & clo for my son, he still has mucousy, green poops, occassional blood, and sleeps horribly. Also, we've started trying a few solids & they always come out undigested.

I'm wondering if we could have a yeast issue. It's one thing I haven't addressed.

Jane - are the yeast enzymes safe while breastfeeding? Safe to give to a 1 year old?

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#67 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jane (rominick), have you tried nystatin? If you take a look at this pdf (you can read the article as it is, but I recommend opening it as a pdf via the right hand menu so you can see the tables and results easier):
Effectiveness of nystatin in polysymptomatic patients. A randomized, double-blind trial with nystatin versus placebo in general practice

I don't think that link is working, try it this way:

http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../full/18/3/258

Also, the diet I recommend isn't the typical one on some levels. The BIG no no's on the diet I follow are:
No malt and malt derivatives (eg, barley malt in cereals, maltodextrin, etc)
No vinegar (including ketchup and other things with vinegar)
no dairy or gluten

That's the first step. If there is no improvement with the nystatin and those changes, you take it a step further. Just one taste of vinegar or malt however, can bring symptoms back.

I have tweaked all that to include probiotics. Even if they haven't worked in the past, I recommend you try them WITH nystatin. The reason is because:

a. only 2% of most probiotics survive the digestive process to make it to the colon;

b. those that do survive go straight through because they have nowhere to stick to - the bowel wall is covered in yeast!

So you can take probiotics till the cows come home to no avail, until you wipe that bowel wall clean of yeast.

Don't bother too much with acidophilus, although it has its uses and will clear out clostridia, it lives in harmony with candida. A good lactobacillus or other bacillus will acidify the colon and stick happily to the wall and doesn't like candida.

I recommend threelac as a probiotic. It has three specially chosen bacteria that kill yeast, one is like a tornado and passes straight out, doesn't stick. But it really does a great job of killing yeast. The other two colonise. It is a Japanese product that has encased the bacteria in a protective shell of vitamins and stuff. 80% of Threelac makes it to the colon. They say Threelac alone can be taken without changes to the diet. I wouldn't recommend it, although for the lazy of us, it's a good choice for that reason.

Like I always say, probiotics are pointless if you haven't stripped the intestines of the bad guys. Then those probiotics will stick. If you can't afford Threelac (most expensive probiotic I've found), then nystatin with your own probiotic does a better job anyway.

Mammo, re the strawberry, it would depend on if it is real strawberry or not, and if the reaction is worth the benefit. Sore and bleeding gums can also be low iron and some other things.

As the cells in the gut are turned over every 12 hours, gut healing should occur in 24 hours, esp with the use of L-glutamine. In other words, any "leaks" should be puttied over fairly quickly. I noticed this in my son, overnight his skin cleared completely when I hammered the yeast in his gut. I figure it is because the bowel wall sealed (no yeast clawing at it anymore) and therefore aggravating proteins no longer seeped through.

In children, I believe curing the infection is more important than anything else. It's kind of like a bacterial infection - we don't put off taking the hard core treatment in favour or dealing instead with the symptoms of the infection. We instead take antibiotics if necessary, or at least hit their little systems with whatever it takes to remove the offending infection first, and then we treat symptoms and bring the body back to health. If your little'ns have a yeast infection it should be the priority - kill it off with a yeast antibiotic or with the appropriate treatment of your choice.

Always take nystatin with antibiotics, so that you kill both the yeast and bacteria and your gut stands a chance of recolonising in a balanced way again.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#68 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 08:39 PM
 
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Jane, want to chime in about CLO? I can never recall the latest, "Blue Ice" high vitamin CLO? with *natural* vit A, not palmitate, I think. (caution lead/mercury contaminants in some CLO...

Anyone have suggestions for whole food vitamin supplements without the latest *lead* concerns?
Yes, the only CLO's I know and rec is Radiant Life, Blue Ice or the budget version Twinlab (which has half the A & D so need to have organ meats in diet or other good source of these vits, or just take more). Twinlab can be had at IHerb.com for $5 bottle.

We pick and choose our whole food source vits: the CLO, some from www.drrons.com like liver for B complex and zinc, and acerola or amla powder for vit. C, kelp power for iodine. Otherwise we depend on food. What is latest lead concern?
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#69 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 08:43 PM
 
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nak

i'm not Jane (though she's so awesome I wish I was) but the "enzymes for autism" book by karen defelice is excellent. Don't be fooled by the title, it's really all about enzymes.
OH your own self is pretty great too

Pat,
Karen DeFelice's website is very good esp the page on Yeast/Bacteria www.enzymestuff.com and her recent book "Enzymes for Digestive Health and Nutritional Wealth" is a bit more comprehensive. She also has a Yahoo group you can scan.

I would encourage anyone to try enzymes before trying yeast killers, they are so gentle and very effective IME.
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#70 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 08:51 PM
 
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Jane - are the yeast enzymes safe while breastfeeding? Safe to give to a 1 year old?
Yes while bf'ing. Liz Lipski of Digestive Wellness says digestive enzymes are safe for babies but I don't think she specifically addressed for yeast killing purposes. I would imagine that the only concern would be a reaction to the specific ingredients? And not giving too much to overwhelm the body with exotoxins from die off. Perhaps DeFelice has addressed in her Yahoo group? or you can post a question there too.

When I had thrush while bf'ing, Candex knocked it down in 2 days. I keep reading new messages on that big huge thrush thread and get so frustrated no one seems to be trying them.
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#71 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 09:19 PM
 
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How long should I plan on taking Threelac? Ds is sensitive to citrus, but DH and I decided that it is work the small exposure to help kill the yeast that we are both suffering from. But, I would not want to use it for more than a couple of weeks, because of his sensitivity. We have been struggling with this for almost 2 1/2 years, with new allergies adding as time goes on. We need to fix this.

So while taking Threelac, I don't need to take another probiotic?? When I am done with Threelac should I go back to my own probiotic (haven't really found one that works very well.)

Should I take Threelac and Nystatin at the same time?

I want to find enzymes that meet our needs and restrictions. Should I wait to start taking them until after doing Threelac?

Calm, how long do you think the strict diet is necessary? A few weeks or longer? I use vinegar in our diet a lot because we can't have citrus or tomatoes - but I can avoid it.

I think I have more questions, but need to research some more.


eta: just read JaneS response about enzymes. I think we will get them right away while we plan our strategic attack, which maybe we won't have to do.

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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#72 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When I had thrush while bf'ing, Candex knocked it down in 2 days. I keep reading new messages on that big huge thrush thread and get so frustrated no one seems to be trying them.
I hear that.

I also like enzymes, which apparently break down the yeast shell effectively. I take them separately and they are in my oxygen elements. I take them sometimes to help digestion and sometimes between meals for the yeast factor.

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#73 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Cross post. I'm just cooking at the mo, and taking quick reads so I'll come back.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#74 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 09:51 PM
 
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Do you think there is harm in taking Candex if it turns out yeast isn't a problem? I have no idea but I think its worth a try.

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#75 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:07 PM
 
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I can't think why it would. Bad bacteria and viral issues are also in the gut flora mix, so I would think of all of them as being a problem and transition to proteases too after a while. I can't imagine that only yeast would be a problem? I think one of my major issues was viral, I had mono as a college student. Viruses live amongst flora too and resurface from time to time. When I did proteases and then olive leaf extract it really helped me.

It was just by chance that I tried OLE. It was after I had a wisdom tooth out and our holistic dentist px'd it (and enzymes too, love him!) ... and after a week of that I was like, wow I feel fantastic!
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#76 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:07 PM
 
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Yes, the only CLO's I know and rec is Radiant Life, Blue Ice or the budget version Twinlab (which has half the A & D so need to have organ meats in diet or other good source of these vits, or just take more). Twinlab can be had at IHerb.com for $5 bottle.

We pick and choose our whole food source vits: the CLO, some from www.drrons.com like liver for B complex and zinc, and acerola or amla powder for vit. C, kelp power for iodine. Otherwise we depend on food. What is latest lead concern?
What about Garden of Life CLO? It's listed on the Weston Price site.
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#77 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How long should I plan on taking Threelac? Ds is sensitive to citrus, but DH and I decided that it is work the small exposure to help kill the yeast that we are both suffering from. But, I would not want to use it for more than a couple of weeks, because of his sensitivity. We have been struggling with this for almost 2 1/2 years, with new allergies adding as time goes on. We need to fix this.

So while taking Threelac, I don't need to take another probiotic?? When I am done with Threelac should I go back to my own probiotic (haven't really found one that works very well.)

Should I take Threelac and Nystatin at the same time?

I want to find enzymes that meet our needs and restrictions. Should I wait to start taking them until after doing Threelac?

Calm, how long do you think the strict diet is necessary? A few weeks or longer? I use vinegar in our diet a lot because we can't have citrus or tomatoes - but I can avoid it.

I think I have more questions, but need to research some more.


eta: just read JaneS response about enzymes. I think we will get them right away while we plan our strategic attack, which maybe we won't have to do.
I'd suggest avoiding totally, all malt and vinegar for a week and see if you get improvement. Maltodextrin is in so much, and barley malt is what our kids eat for breakfast each day! What a way to kick start those yeasty chemicals messing with our babes each morning. Malt was designed to feed yeast in beer, nothing feeds them better than malt. No wonder they fall asleep at school. Get off those things altogether and see if that alone gives improvement.

I think it is an individual thing, how much of a diet and how long on it. Some people get all their symptoms return, of itchy skin, migraines, you name it, if they have some vinegar or malt. Some can return happily to normal eating (not that vinegar and malt are found naturally, not the way companies are making some products!) and get no effects. You'll have to experiment. It also will depend on the strength of your immune system. Take the yeasty burden off it, and the parasites too if possible, and it will usually then be able to keep the rest in check regardless of what you eat within reason.

But I also think the big whammo diets are overkill. They are also hard to maintain, so only rarely does someone stick to it long enough to see results. Each person is different and we should all start off slowly to find what level gives us relief. Malt and vinegar is a good place to start, and for some autistic kids, this is enough to see profound change for instance. But then some of us need to go a few steps further, AND kill the yeast, AND install new bacteria (probiotics) before we can relax symptom free.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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#78 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Forgot... you *can* take nystatin and threelac at the same time. But WOWZA, you'll get serious die off! I'd do it, but I'm into *extreme* health experimenting. I'm like the skydiver of the naturopathic set. And yes, take another probiotic at the same time if you can afford it. We have many MANY different strains of bacteria in us, the more the merrier.

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#79 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:17 PM
 
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What about Garden of Life CLO? It's listed on the Weston Price site.
Vitamin D is too low IMO for gut healing. Most people are D deficient even if they are getting "enough" sun.
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#80 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:18 PM
 
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What is latest lead concern?
Thanks for the info.

Just when you thought things were alright, the FDA throws another wrench in the chain! They have found LEAD in vitamins, of all places!!!!

Are You Being Exposed?
<http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/lead-vitamins-08\
2803?src=nl&mag=tdg&list=dgr&kw=ist
>

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I'd suggest avoiding totally, all malt and vinegar for a week and see if you get improvement. Maltodextrin is in so much, and barley malt is what our kids eat for breakfast each day! What a way to kick start those yeasty chemicals messing with our babes each morning. Malt was designed to feed yeast in beer, nothing feeds them better than malt. No wonder they fall asleep at school. Get off those things altogether and see if that alone gives improvement.

I think it is an individual thing, how much of a diet and how long on it. Some people get all their symptoms return, of itchy skin, migraines, you name it, if they have some vinegar or malt. Some can return happily to normal eating (not that vinegar and malt are found naturally, not the way companies are making some products!) and get no effects. You'll have to experiment. It also will depend on the strength of your immune system. Take the yeasty burden off it, and the parasites too if possible, and it will usually then be able to keep the rest in check regardless of what you eat within reason.

But I also think the big whammo diets are overkill. They are also hard to maintain, so only rarely does someone stick to it long enough to see results. Each person is different and we should all start off slowly to find what level gives us relief. Malt and vinegar is a good place to start, and for some autistic kids, this is enough to see profound change for instance. But then some of us need to go a few steps further, AND kill the yeast, AND install new bacteria (probiotics) before we can relax symptom free.

ack! maltodextrin is a malt. sigh I just found a yummy food based vitamin C my boys and I can take. maybe we can take it in the future, just not now. We are gluten free so we already avoid other malt products because I've always assumed they were gluten based. DH wants to know why vinegar is yeast growing.

I am learning so much and am starting to feel a little hopeful.

thanks everyone

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I'd suggest avoiding totally, all malt and vinegar for a week and see if you get improvement.
Even RAW apple cider vinegar???


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#83 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 10:34 PM
 
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Are any of these safe for breastfeeding?

Grapefruit seed extract
Oil of oregano
Olive leaf extract
Caprylic acid
Pau d'arco
Garlic

thought I'd give the enzyme/herb thing a try.

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#84 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 11:13 PM
 
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Even RAW apple cider vinegar???


Pat
this is what we use. it would be awesome to not have to avoid it.

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#85 of 1043 Old 09-04-2008, 11:36 PM
 
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I think Threelac has more citrus than I am comfortable with (DS reacts to citrus).
I am trying to figure out what to use now.
What does everyone think of oil of oregano?? Calm mentioned that she wasn't sure if it knocked out the good guys too, that is concerning.
Maybe we should just use nystatin

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#86 of 1043 Old 09-05-2008, 12:19 AM
 
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I'm behind in this thread and haven't read everything but wanted to comment on our experience with OoO. It didn't seem to kill our bad guys. DD is having gorgeous poops after a one week trial on OoO to rule out yeast. We did continue with probiotics during the trial though.

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#87 of 1043 Old 09-05-2008, 09:40 AM
 
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It didn't seem to kill our bad guys.
Did you mean it did kill them? Did you give directly to LO? How much? i'm thinking some sort of trial can't hurt.

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#88 of 1043 Old 09-05-2008, 02:41 PM
 
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Sorry. I was braindead yesterday after a 5 hour drive to town plus three hours in a doctors office. I meant to say that it didn't kill our GOOD guys. The ND recommended 1 drop in the morning and 1 drop at night. Taslyn LOVED the flavor. She's such a spicy girl...

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#89 of 1043 Old 09-05-2008, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think Threelac has more citrus than I am comfortable with (DS reacts to citrus).
My son was allergic to citrus. His skin broke out and his poos went freaky if I ate lemon or grapefruit (I never tried another citrus, but no doubt the same would have happened). We got him tested and treated with NAET. I can give you the basic treatment protocol for NAET, but I strongly suggest a practitioner, and if at all possible, those using the frequency generators. This is where we go: Renew You Centre for Wellbeing and Longevity. Contact them (Australia) and see if they have a partner clinic near you.

I had to wait until his allergies were cleared to citrus, which was in our second band of treatments, so two weeks, and since then I've been able to eat citrus with no effect on DS. It's simply amazing. I've seen people recovered from anaphylactic shock in ten minutes with them. I'll make my next post a copy paste from another thread I wrote the protocol in.

Quote:
DH wants to know why vinegar is yeast growing.
Vinegar contains many chemicals which kill bacteria but leave yeast alone. Vinegar is added to bread dough to keep the numbers of bacteria down and the yeast numbers high in the bread dough. Vinegar will do the same in your intestine, kill bacteria and leave yeast alone.

So when you have the power punch combo of the yeast grower, malt, and the antibacterial, vinegar, you are never going to clear yeast without a struggle. The western diet pretty much relies on those two things, you'll discover that yourself when you try to avoid them.

In nature, yeast and bacteria usually live together. When one lives without the other, this imbalance allows one of them to get out of control. Also, when they are together, yeast fights bacteria by producing antibacterial chemicals. That is one reason why you find antibacterial chemicals in places you find yeast.

However, I am not sure if this is the same for ACV, but I would steer clear of it while trialing the avoidance of vinegar. Make it the first vinegar challenge you do.

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#90 of 1043 Old 09-05-2008, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is the standard treatment. The treatment we got starts with this, and then goes onto some more radical things that use machines that generate frequencies and resonance with the individual.

NAET Treatment

Be sure the person being treated is well hydrated.

Get the allergen, say... lemon juice. Put it into a glass container - I suggest an empty and clean baby food jar. Say, a teaspoonful.

Do not use plastic or metal.

(if nec, you could put it directly on the skin, but you must wash it thoroughly after the treatment as the allergen must be avoided for 25 hours. Not recommended.)

Put the jar so it is in the region of the baby's solar plexus (or if treating an older child/adult they can hold it there).

You are now going to stimulate all the meridians down the back either side of the spine. This is where every single body system meets in a powerful junction. It isn't too specific, just about an inch either side of the spine put two fingers (I use index and thumb) for an adult, and a little closer obviously for a baby.

Start at the shoulder level beside the cervical spine, and end at the tail bone.

Tap all the way down the spine in small increments. OR, wiggle the fingers, move down half an inch, wiggle the fingers again.

For a baby, do it about six times, spacing the fingers apart a little further each time, enough so you hit all the points.

For a child/adult, have them hold their breath the first time.
Second time, exhaling and holding.
Third time, panting.
Forth, normal breathing.

A few more times after that breathing normally, moving the fingers closer or further from the spine to cover all bases.

My practitioner then put the jar against DS's forehead, so go ahead and do it all again with it there although I haven't seen that in any other NAET treatment.

THEN: find the point L4 on the right hand between the thumb and forefinger. Slightly toward the forefinger. Massage that point for 1 minute clockwise. If you have an acupen, you can click that point instead.

Find this point on the left hand, same again.

Find the point on the left foot between the big toe and second toe, Ki1. Same as the hand.

Same on right foot.

Then back to right hand, forming a circle, ending where you started.

The points will be sore, work those sore bits if unsure exactly where the points are.

Avoid the allergen for 25 hours.

If you treat something like mould, then it won't stick because you can't avoid those allergens. You may have to do it somewhere unmouldy or wait until another season (good for pollen allergies). Some people wear a gas mask, no joke, for the 25 hours.

If you have severe reactions to an allergen, don't go and dive into the allergen to test it worked. Do a scratch test or see a professional to see if the body has stopped reacting negatively to the substance. You can test it with kinesiology, if you know how to muscle test. If it is an allergy that you can risk exposure to, go right ahead and see how you're reacting to it then.

This video I am linking is the woman who works at the treatment center I go to. She shows you how to do it to a sensitivity, but have a piece of paper as she uses many more points than the ones above so you'll want to jot them down.

NAET example


Give it a go and report back.

So I've said it out loud, if you get no results, see a professional NAET practitioner. Do NOT underestimate this or discard it if you personally cannot elicit the results in yourself. Practitioners exist for a reason, even though the protocol is available publicly.

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