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#121 of 1043 Old 09-08-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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Just jumping in here. My 4 year old daughter has a constantly bloated stomach & red girl parts. She also has lots of gas. She also has loose stools. The ped. seemed unconcerned and said sometimes kids grow out of these things.

So does this sound like it could be yeast. Didn't occur to me before but now I'm wondering if I should try something like the threelac.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#122 of 1043 Old 09-09-2008, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Calm View Post
Nathenial, I'd love to know how your results come out. What symptoms does your son have when he reacts? Is it skin, digestive, or a mixture of a few things?
Often a mixture of things. Difficulty falling and staying asleep. Stool - greenish, watery, mucous, gelatinous, explosive - sometimes with bright red blood specs. Rash, rarely eczema (only a little bit behind his ears sometimes and armpits). Behavioral - extremely clingy (cannot be put down for even a second, and you have to constantly be moving around with him), easily annoyed.
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#123 of 1043 Old 09-09-2008, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Often a mixture of things. Difficulty falling and staying asleep. Stool - greenish, watery, mucous, gelatinous, explosive - sometimes with bright red blood specs. Rash, rarely eczema (only a little bit behind his ears sometimes and armpits). Behavioral - extremely clingy (cannot be put down for even a second, and you have to constantly be moving around with him), easily annoyed.
Geez, that sounds just like my son. I bolded the parts that he also had/has. The poos are resolved, it's good to get the good smell and consistency back, they smelled like vinegar pretty badly when they were the freakish type. I guess yeast wanna make vinegar no matter WHERE they are! His skin is clear except for his scalp, which is being more stubborn.

He had his first threelac yesterday and another dose today. Yesterday he poo'd twice and wouldn't nap, but had his best night time sleep yet. My daughter started it yesterday also and went to bed with a headache.

That's the update so far.

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#124 of 1043 Old 09-09-2008, 11:27 PM
 
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Does anyone know if it's better to give Nystatin with or without food or does it not matter?
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#125 of 1043 Old 09-09-2008, 11:48 PM
 
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What will negate it is an allergic child that was born to a provably non-yeasty mother and the baby was not exposed to steroids or antibiotics.
Well, I've already posted to this thread. But I think I fit the bill here. I did have yeast early (12 weeks?) in pregnancy, but beat it back so I had no symptoms by the time the birth rolled around. No antibiotics during pregnancy, delivery or after. Completely non-drug, vaginal birth (with exception of pitocin given after birth to deliver the placenta - wasn't prepared to consent to that and it just sorta happened). EBF (except for sips of sterile water given by DH to combat hiccups) for 6 mos.

During the last 8 Weeks of pregnancy, I swam in a chlorinated pool 2-4 times a week. I had read that swimming in chlorine keeps the group B strep at bay. Maybe it kills the good bacteria, too?

And the tap water we drink, while Brita-filtered, has some chlorine left, right? Is that enough chlorine to kill the good bacteria in your gastrointestinal tract and/or vagina?

DS, 10/07. Allergies: peanut, egg, wheat. We've added dairy back in. And taken it back out again. It causes sandpaper skin with itchy patches and thrashing during sleep. Due w/ #2 late April, 2012.

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#126 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 12:54 AM
 
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So, I'm coming to this thread because my problems weren't solved over this past year or two, despite the fact that my allergic dd (the one who had abx during labor) is doing quite well now. I've been on rounds and rounds of abx during my life. As a child and teen, I seemed to always be sick with strep or a sinus infection. Even had my tonsils out. Sooo, fast forward to college when I started to eat better. I was sick much less at that point. I had two babies without interventions, both without any problems. I've had OALD since my first baby, but still, they weren't affected gut-wise. Then, dd had abx at birth (and now I'm recalling that I had them the year I got pg with her for a UTI, too).

She's had all kinds of issues, including food allergies, yeast rashes, eczema. We used Threelac with her and the rashes went away. I took it, too, because she was nursing. I thought we were out of the woods as far as yeast (and have up until now). I did all the gut-healing things during my latest pregnancy with my lo. He was born at home, no interventions, abx or anything, but his poo is green and mucusy and now, I realize, sometimes vinegary. He's developed a spot of eczema on his arm in the past 2 or 3 weeks (it's the size of a pencil eraser, but it still triggers my inner alarm). The only thing I can think is that my yeastiness was passed to him. He doesn't have yeast rashes like dd did, though.

I'm free of all major allergens now; 5 days ago, I cut gluten and eggs (the last of the big ones). Ds's skin patch has cleared and he had a bm for the first time since I cut those two foods (I was pretty sure one of them was the culprit). It was mostly normal. Mucus was VERY minimal, and it was creamy and yogurty like it hasn't been for a long time (he's 4 mths old).
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Vinegar contains many chemicals which kill bacteria but leave yeast alone. Vinegar is added to bread dough to keep the numbers of bacteria down and the yeast numbers high in the bread dough. Vinegar will do the same in your intestine, kill bacteria and leave yeast alone.

So when you have the power punch combo of the yeast grower, malt, and the antibacterial, vinegar, you are never going to clear yeast without a struggle. The western diet pretty much relies on those two things, you'll discover that yourself when you try to avoid them.

In nature, yeast and bacteria usually live together. When one lives without the other, this imbalance allows one of them to get out of control. Also, when they are together, yeast fights bacteria by producing antibacterial chemicals. That is one reason why you find antibacterial chemicals in places you find yeast.

However, I am not sure if this is the same for ACV, but I would steer clear of it while trialing the avoidance of vinegar. Make it the first vinegar challenge you do.
I'm curious about this, since vinegar is such a good yeast killer outside of the body. Why is it bad inside? And isn't the gut supposed to be more acid than alkaline (or am I backward on that?)? But like I said, ds's poo does smell vinegary.

[QUOTE=WuWei;12118609]I think there were a couple of homebirths upthread. But, it is an interesting premise to consider, no "foreign" bacteria/antibacterials introduced into the birthing process (by an outside midwife), and the microbial benefits to baby...
/QUOTE]

Yes, HB for my latest lo, but I guess the years of abx couldn't be overcome.

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Ok, I found these sites on treating babies directly with threelac and oxygen elements. I am NOT advocating or recommending it. Just so's we're clear. But for those who are interested, as I was, in finding out if it can be done, here are a couple of links:
.
But what if it isn't yeast? What would the effect of the Threelac be? FWIW, I think it's a great thing and my dd used it when she was 1 1/2, but I don't think I would use it on a lo. I'll have to see how easily I can purchase some contraband nystatin

Random thoughts and questions: I've read many conflicting things about "yeasts" and I wish there was some agreement. For example anti-candida diets often say to cut out yeasts. But since there are so many kinds and they have different purposes, and in food, the yeast is supposed to be dead when you eat the cooked food, I'm not sure who to believe. For example, we make only sourdough bread and it's from our own natural starter that was made with yeasts in the air, no commercial yeasts. Is that a bad thing? Is it only bad when you're dealing with a yeast problem, but not when you're healthy? How can a dead yeast hurt you? And what about fermented foods lke kefir? Sorry for the run-ons!

Oh, and how long does yeast treatment last? Since it's hard to identify that one has it, how can you know when you don't? The threelac people say that you should continue on maintenance indefinitely. ??

Jane, do you take digestive enzymes at meals even while treating yeast with Candex or Threelac or should you wait for some duration of treatment?

Also, I wanted to bring up something that happened. I was taking Digest Gold with every meal until this summer when we went on vacation. I forgot my enzymes so I went to a hfc and bought what they had in stock, Enzymedica Digest. Well, I've only been taking 1 at meals and figured it wasn't too different than Digest gold. I went online today because I had a niggling feeling that it might be part of the problems my ds is having with what I'm eating. Found out it's significantly weaker than Dig Gold and it has 4 fewer enzymes. I really wonder if this is part of the picture of my ds reacting. ?? I don't know the answer, but I'm back on Dig Gold today (it's been in my cupboard, I just wanted to use up the Digest first).

ETA: Even with my ds's improvement in these past 5 days, he is gassy and so am I (tmi). I've been eating a lot of raw vegs and fruits, beans and meat. I think the raw things aren't digesting well for me and are having an effect on ds. The stronger enzyme should help, but I probably need to cook my foods instead of eat raw for a while.
Okay now I'm
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#127 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I've already posted to this thread. But I think I fit the bill here. I did have yeast early (12 weeks?) in pregnancy, but beat it back so I had no symptoms by the time the birth rolled around.
The only problem is, you can't know for sure you had no yeast. No symptoms doesn't mean no yeast, unfortunately.

I didn't get any thrush/yeast symptoms with my pregnancy, but pregnancy itself causes yeast overgrowth for most of us, as progesterone helps it grow. They assume that is why it overgrows when you're on the pill, the progesterone. So although I had no symptoms, I had it. It is with hindsight that I can say that.

I was sooo sick in my late teens/early twenties. Back then I had no idea why, but I had chronic fatigue and was a wreck, migraines, nausea, bowel issues - you name it I had it. I had CAT scans, all kinds of tests and saw about 11 different doctors and resigned myself to believing myself a hyperchondriac.

My history was, I was the most healthy child and teen, I never got sick. I didn't get any vaxes yet I was the only one who never caught the diseases. I didn't get colds or flu. I was indestructible, so my mother tells me. I got pregnant at 18 and terminated in shock and fear, which of course, meant antibiotics. The clinic put me on the pill, which I was on for the following five years. I got allergies, hayfever to be precise. And slowly my health deteriorated and there seemed no reason why.

It isn't until a decade later that I learned why. And oh lord how I wished I'd learned sooner! I was obsessed with health, so at 21 I became a naturopath and by 25 had left the country to apprentice with some of the world's finest in the field. IMNSHO

In Japan, while learning from a kick a$$ energy healer who communicated to me in sign language cos he didn't know English, I felt better than I'd ever felt. I was going easily to the toilet, I gained weight, my face got colour, and I had E.N.E.R.G.Y! It would be several years before I worked out why, but you get to know faster: their diet is totally different to ours in Japan. It is much less conducive to yeast growth, and they eat fermented foods with every meal.

Tip: try an umeboshi plum, which is a digestive ferment, with meals, bursting with enzymes and goodness!!

Anyway, scroll around a few years and many health lessons later and it all started to make complete sense to me. Every time I got pregnant (even if I miscarried), and every time I had ABX, I went downhill. My hormones got messed up and I ended up with endometriosis, surgery for ovarian cysts and a parasitic cyst on my spleen that could have ruptured if it grew much more.

So when my son broke out in eczema and his scalp in fungal dermatitis it was a no brainer to me that we were plagued with yeast again. I had NO symptoms. But that means nothing. Honestly, that is not the yardstick with which to measure this. If you are breastfeeding and your child has symptoms of yeast, then you both have yeast. Either that or somehow you managed to superwoman past it and only the baby got it.

And I doubt that.

From experience, I'd go so far as to say, if you have ever been pregnant, been on the pill, had abx or steroids, then you have a yeast overgrowth. And you're just lucky if you don't have symptoms. Yet.

It comes and goes. It ebbs and flows. It rises and falls. All on its own it will do that, with no treatment at all. That's why sometimes you feel great and other times you feel pus. I had knocked my yeast back many times, unknowingly, through diet and lifestyle. in fact, during my meditating Buddhist years, I felt great, so obviously just mindset can beat the buggers.

But to have control of it, to decide when you will suffer and when you won't, then you have to treat. Naturopaths, doctors, they all told me that my son didn't have yeast, doesn't have yeast and that I don't have yeast. Tests show no yeast. But I don't care what they say, because the proof is in the pudding. When I treat my yeast, my physiology changes. When I treat his, he heals. Is that a coincidence?

Chinese, I've read your post and have stuff to say... but have rambled myself into a corner here so I'll come back to it..

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#128 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So, I'm coming to this thread because my problems weren't solved over this past year or two, despite the fact that my allergic dd (the one who had abx during labor) is doing quite well now. I've been on rounds and rounds of abx during my life. As a child and teen, I seemed to always be sick with strep or a sinus infection. Even had my tonsils out. Sooo, fast forward to college when I started to eat better. I was sick much less at that point. I had two babies without interventions, both without any problems. I've had OALD since my first baby, but still, they weren't affected gut-wise. Then, dd had abx at birth (and now I'm recalling that I had them the year I got pg with her for a UTI, too).

She's had all kinds of issues, including food allergies, yeast rashes, eczema. We used Threelac with her and the rashes went away. I took it, too, because she was nursing. I thought we were out of the woods as far as yeast (and have up until now). I did all the gut-healing things during my latest pregnancy with my lo. He was born at home, no interventions, abx or anything, but his poo is green and mucusy and now, I realize, sometimes vinegary. He's developed a spot of eczema on his arm in the past 2 or 3 weeks (it's the size of a pencil eraser, but it still triggers my inner alarm). The only thing I can think is that my yeastiness was passed to him. He doesn't have yeast rashes like dd did, though.

I'm free of all major allergens now; 5 days ago, I cut gluten and eggs (the last of the big ones). Ds's skin patch has cleared and he had a bm for the first time since I cut those two foods (I was pretty sure one of them was the culprit). It was mostly normal. Mucus was VERY minimal, and it was creamy and yogurty like it hasn't been for a long time (he's 4 mths old).
Oh what a relief. He should be able to eat regularly one day, his gut will heal, you are an amazing mama so he has a better chance than some.


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I'm curious about this, since vinegar is such a good yeast killer outside of the body. Why is it bad inside? And isn't the gut supposed to be more acid than alkaline (or am I backward on that?)? But like I said, ds's poo does smell vinegary.
I am totally guessing, keep that in mind, but... I think that because it contains both antiyeast and antibacterial chemicals, that is why it is a good all purpose household item in that way. But internally, you don't want to do that, you want to preserve the good guys so candida (or clostridia or any other opportunistic nasty) grows in the spaces left behind by those deaths. It contains those chemicals apparently because of the natural war between the two of them. Yeast produce pretty effective antibacterial chemicals and that is why you don't want to ingest it. The fact that it probably also contains antiyeast chems doesn't really negate the fact that you would also take in antibacterials.

Re acid, the gut is acidic and so is vinegar. However, vinegar has an alkalising effect on the body. So much so that some people wake and drink apple cider vinegar to alkalise first thing. I don't know if this effects the gut in this way, but I wouldn't think so. I don't think its pH has much to do with why it is a no no.
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But what if it isn't yeast? What would the effect of the Threelac be?
The effect of threelac, if you can believe this, is simply probiotic. It isn't a chemical or anything, just specifically chosen strains of bacteria that target candida and then two of the three stick to the wall and help recolonise. The effect if you don't have an overgrowth then, would be minimal, and perhaps just add some beneficial bacteria if you had room for them.
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FWIW, I think it's a great thing and my dd used it when she was 1 1/2, but I don't think I would use it on a lo.
I wanted to use it on my son but I used nystatin instead so I could use infant probiotics on him. But by six months, their gut flora has matured and now I give him threelac, and eighth of a teaspoon a day. I also give him one drop of oxygen elements a day in one ml of water, twice a day. He is pooping out of control, but that will level out eventually.

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I'll have to see how easily I can purchase some contraband nystatin
let me know how you go with this as I am looking to get some. I have some here that I got via a prescription but it is full of lactose and other crap I don't want to ingest. I took it anyway, but now it is shelved while I'm on threelac. I hope to get some nystatin in the pure form at some stage.

Quote:
Random thoughts and questions: I've read many conflicting things about "yeasts" and I wish there was some agreement. For example anti-candida diets often say to cut out yeasts. But since there are so many kinds and they have different purposes, and in food, the yeast is supposed to be dead when you eat the cooked food, I'm not sure who to believe. For example, we make only sourdough bread and it's from our own natural starter that was made with yeasts in the air, no commercial yeasts. Is that a bad thing?
I wouldn't think so. You are a good thinker, I see where you're going in your thoughts and it makes sense. It is true that all these things are in the air, so some sensibility has to be used when making these diet decisions. I often think some people are on too strict a diet for them individually.

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Is it only bad when you're dealing with a yeast problem, but not when you're healthy?
The taxation on the immune system is so great when it is dealing with yeast that our modus is to alleviate the stress as much as possible. The immune system alone could tackle yeast in many cases if just given no extra burden. But yeast is a hardy fighter, and has many tricks to evade the system. So even healthy people would be "healthier" if they ate according to our biological needs. Can any westerner be considered in optimal health anymore really? Apparently we used to live to 250 years of age, and some cultures today are well into centurion before they kick the bucket so we fall well short of that. We all could be much healthier so I think that being healthy may just be that we need to go these extra miles on a more regular basis.

In similar news, I have read about indigenous peoples such as our Aussie Coories and the Native Americans and they never stopped doing cleanses. Parasite cleanses were a part of their whole life, not just something they did once plagued with symptoms and then ceased until plagued again. No, they did it while still symptom free. They also did/do many other types of cleanses, using smoke, water, and sauna type situations such as "sweat lodges". Our culture, on the other hand, has no such thing. We have tried to take on some of these things but on the whole, we struggle with our health because we want to make healing a one stop deal, where we do some cleanse, then we are free to eat rubbish and laze around. Health, true health of body mind and soul, is a full time, life time commitment. I've actually heard people complain that they'd have to take threelac once a week for life to maintain freedom from yeast overgrowth while still indulging their taste sensations. I've never heard of maintenance so simple and yet we complain about it.

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How can a dead yeast hurt you?
Good question. I believe bread yeast is fine as it is dead. It is only a problem for the severely infested candida sufferer. And this is again because of the chemicals and reactions in the body to yeast, more than ingesting those yeast to populate cos as you say, they're dead.

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And what about fermented foods lke kefir?
Much like vinegar is bad cos both anti bacterial and antiyeast chems are in it, good biotics in fermented foods are ok because they are in balance and are good guys, for the most part. They will contain the bad chemicals, and this is the reason they have been banned from most candida diets. But there has been much success in using fermented foods to treat an overgrowth so they have been reconsidered. They are generally good guys, and I think that's why, even though they have some baddies in it. Other yeasts will crowd out candida and take its resources, and this is a good thing. Other bacterias will crowd out clostridia and other baddies, also a good thing.

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Oh, and how long does yeast treatment last?
If you want to be symptom free, it lasts until you are. If you want optimal health, it lasts a lifetime. Just in smaller doses, a couple of times a month in a mini treatment.

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Since it's hard to identify that one has it, how can you know when you don't? The threelac people say that you should continue on maintenance indefinitely. ??
If you are already symptom free, it would be very hard to tell when you aren't infected anymore. You'd have to get in tune with your body and literally "trust your gut" for that one. To enjoy a glass of wine and a bowl of sugar again I'd just keep threelac or some other balancer of your choice on hand and treat regularly to be on the safe side.

That was a really interesting post, btw. Don't ever be sorry, it all helps me, and no doubt others. You'd be surprised how many people read these threads but don't post. Thanks to you.

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#129 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 05:41 PM
 
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Thanks for answering, Calm.

The whole discussion is so interesting. I guess it would be better if it was merely hypothetical and not a reality for so many of us
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#130 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 07:14 PM
 
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The yeast issue has been weighing heavily on my mind since it has become such a prominent topic in this forum lately.

We hadn't been to see our doc in about 6 to 8 weeks as it is difficult to get there. But we went on Monday. I asked her about yeast and told her how some I've heard online are taking nystatin and such. She told me I don't want to do that. Her take on it is that if you support the body with the right diet, including pro-biotic food, it can get back into balance. She said something to the effect that the yeast keep the bacteria from getting out of control and you wouldn't want to kill them all off.

Sometimes I feel like she can't take us all the way home. Yet she's brought us this far.

Also, yesterday, my dh met an ND in her 50s. She claimed to have had eczema for years and then cleared it all for good with gut healing about 10 years ago, never having changed her diet. She is much closer to us than the other doc, who is only going to practice through the end of this year. I may give this new one a call.

It has gotten chilly here the last several days. I've been telling myself we did NOT heal due to the incoming warm weather last spring, but due to the gut healing we had done. Today my skin on my hands feels tight and itchy. The baby was scratching yesterday too. I am starting to panic. I.cannot.have.another.winter.like.the.last.one.we. will.not.survive.

~Tracy

Rockin' mama to Allison (9), Asher (5) and Alethea (3), head over heels in love with my sexy husband, Tony.

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#131 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 07:43 PM
 
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The yeast issue has been weighing heavily on my mind since it has become such a prominent topic in this forum lately.

We hadn't been to see our doc in about 6 to 8 weeks as it is difficult to get there. But we went on Monday. I asked her about yeast and told her how some I've heard online are taking nystatin and such. She told me I don't want to do that. Her take on it is that if you support the body with the right diet, including pro-biotic food, it can get back into balance. She said something to the effect that the yeast keep the bacteria from getting out of control and you wouldn't want to kill them all off.

Sometimes I feel like she can't take us all the way home. Yet she's brought us this far.

Also, yesterday, my dh met an ND in her 50s. She claimed to have had eczema for years and then cleared it all for good with gut healing about 10 years ago, never having changed her diet. She is much closer to us than the other doc, who is only going to practice through the end of this year. I may give this new one a call.

It has gotten chilly here the last several days. I've been telling myself we did NOT heal due to the incoming warm weather last spring, but due to the gut healing we had done. Today my skin on my hands feels tight and itchy. The baby was scratching yesterday too. I am starting to panic. I.cannot.have.another.winter.like.the.last.one.we. will.not.survive.

~Tracy
If you see that new doctor, please let us know what she says.

I sympathize with your questions about gut-healing. In some ways I'm so glad I'm done having babies because I just do not want to go through this again. Not to mention the guilt I feel over the crappy start my kids are getting from my broken body and the resentment I feel over said broken body. Ugh.
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#132 of 1043 Old 09-10-2008, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The yeast issue has been weighing heavily on my mind since it has become such a prominent topic in this forum lately.

We hadn't been to see our doc in about 6 to 8 weeks as it is difficult to get there. But we went on Monday. I asked her about yeast and told her how some I've heard online are taking nystatin and such. She told me I don't want to do that. Her take on it is that if you support the body with the right diet, including pro-biotic food, it can get back into balance. She said something to the effect that the yeast keep the bacteria from getting out of control and you wouldn't want to kill them all off.

Sometimes I feel like she can't take us all the way home. Yet she's brought us this far.

Also, yesterday, my dh met an ND in her 50s. She claimed to have had eczema for years and then cleared it all for good with gut healing about 10 years ago, never having changed her diet. She is much closer to us than the other doc, who is only going to practice through the end of this year. I may give this new one a call.

It has gotten chilly here the last several days. I've been telling myself we did NOT heal due to the incoming warm weather last spring, but due to the gut healing we had done. Today my skin on my hands feels tight and itchy. The baby was scratching yesterday too. I am starting to panic. I.cannot.have.another.winter.like.the.last.one.we. will.not.survive.

~Tracy
Tracy, please try a yeast kill. You have nothing to lose. I've followed your struggles and I want to help you so badly. I bolded that part in your quote to mention something I keep saying on these forums but have to repeat (cos who the hell can be arsed reading all through a thread... not me that's for sure ). The problems are thus:

1) Candida is one type of yeast, and is not friendly, it is not meant to be there, it does nothing for our body but take take take. It claws into our bowel leaving holes for proteins to slip through, causing allergies. It turns fungal, spreading throughout the body. It has receptors on it's surface that are exactly like our own body's receptors, fooling the immune system, so it cannot be killed off. It keeps the immune system so busy that it has trouble with any extra burden. If you have killed off bacteria, then you need to kill off yeast, it's that simple. Your doc fails to realise that yeast get out of control FAR more easily and often than bacteria, so saying that you don't want an imbalance, (of more bacteria than yeast) is, frankly, ridiculous.

2) Our diet is full of yeast growth factors and antibacterials. Therefore, just in our day to day life we tip the balance in favour of the yeast. We need to completely change our life and diet or we need to keep on top of the yeast, one or the other. And it is much too hard to stay on a bacterially friendly/yeast squashing diet, and really, who wants to?

3) Probiotics will do NOTHING if you have no room left for them on your gut wall. This is why probiotic treatments often fail. You have to make space for the good bacteria, or they are in one end and out the other. Bacteria and yeast stay in our gut by "hooking" into the thin mucosal lining of the colon. Our lining is totally covered as protection from invaders - if they can't hook in, they can't stay and make us ill. This is a major part of the bacteria's job, to act as a fort. Now, you cannot take probiotics and do one iota of good if they can't find room in that fort - neither good guys nor bad guys can find room. If that wall is made up of predominantly yeast, your lining is a mess, you have less good guys helping you digest and well, the list goes on.

They have to be removed, to make room, THEN add probiotics.

4) diet takes WAY too long to be effective. You can kill off the same amount of yeast and start rebalancing in days with a yeast killer with what would take you MONTHS on a diet. Diet is effective maintenance. It is a very slow treatment, however. This is like saying:

"Oh, you have a bacterial infection in your throat? Go on a bacteria free diet and in a few months you'll feel great and your body will be back in balance!"

This may be true, but what do doctors and naturopaths do instead? KILL THE BACTERIA!! That's the sensible thing to do when infected. (naturopaths using herbs and whatnot and docs using antibiotics, but both have the same motive) You can die from a bacterial infection, and you can die from a yeast infection. People die from both all the time, world over. Both can also cause your life much drama. Imagine a child with a chronic bacterial infection of the lung. Would you tolerate that? Of course not. Why tolerate a yeast infection of the gut, mouth, vagina, or skin? I will never understand why doctors treat yeast as though it is no big deal and jump all over bacteria as though it is king, giving advice like, oh yeast, yeah, just change your diet. The same thing can be said for bacteria because an infection is based in poor diet and lifestyle but the best move is always the fastest move. Then worry about cleaning house and installing new good guys, eating well and so on.

5) You can't "kill them all off". Well, you could technically, but you can't in reality because of the way candida evades the system. Tests have shown that in mammals that previously had no candida, when it is introduced into their body, no matter how you try to remove it it is never fully eradicated. This is in an organism that never had candida before, where the candida is not meant to be (such as in a human body). You also can't kill them all off for other reasons such as the air we breathe is full of yeast and bacteria, the food we eat is moldy (most fruit is covered in fungus, no matter how fresh).

The thing we want to do is make sure that when you kill off bacteria you also kill off yeast - always take nystatin when you take antibiotics. The other thing we want to do is make sure that the re population of the gut is with our digesting bacterias, not so much yeast. That's when probiotics are useful, when you have space for them.

Are you able to do threelac, Tracy? Or oxygen elements? Or oil of oregano (I haven't done this one, but I keep hearing good things)? I recommend threelac cos the only diet change you need to do with it is less sugar - a limit of ten teaspoons a day of sugar. They are specific strains of bacteria chosen to target candida. Therefore, you leave most of the other things alone in the gut and also repopulate in the spaces with those bacteria in threelac. "If I were you", I'd eat green leafy foods, mountains of them, and roast pumpkin and brown rice, and take threelac, three sachets a day, one ml of oxygen elements a day divided in the doses, nystatin for a week 500000IU per day (nystatin is optional, as I will get wicked die off if I take it with threelac, and I recommend another probiotic also if I take nystatin, one with bifidos and as many as I can get in one bottle. Some probiotics boast up to 8 strains). I would also look at those links I posted about treating babies and children and just cut to the chase.

In two weeks I could be over the die off, in one month I could be symptom free. Then restart the supps etc.

In the meantime, try doing NAET home treatment I posted. If you get no success, see a professional NAET practitioner and get those allergies removed. You still must heal the gut though, as NAET only treats allergies, not the cause.

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I sympathize with your questions about gut-healing. In some ways I'm so glad I'm done having babies because I just do not want to go through this again. Not to mention the guilt I feel over the crappy start my kids are getting from my broken body and the resentment I feel over said broken body. Ugh.
I feel the exact same way, guilt & all. Although some, small, insane type A part of me wants to have a baby & do it right (no gut issues). How crazy is that?

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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Calm you are giving us really good information. As I have journeyed on this path, the more I have learned, the more confused I have gotten, the more I needed to learn. You have clarified a lot to me here.
thanks

Children deserve the respect of puzzling it out.
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Calm,

I'm now wondering about yeast b/c me & my kids have been unable to heal. What do you think? Here are my kid's symptoms:

DD - 4.5 yrs
Redness on her labia
periods of frequent urination
red cheeks (all the time it seems)
Tons of air in her digestive system (distended tummy)
Lots of gas
Very loose stools (usually has stomach pain before pooping)
Very emotionally volatile
Vacilates between irritability & euphoria

She is already gluten & dairy free. I suspect some other allergens or sensitivities. She is supposed to have ALCAT testing done when I can get her to agree to the blood draw.

DS - 1 yr
Mucousy green poops
Redness around the anus
Really bad sleep
Constantly growling stomach
Dry skin
Congestion

I have been on an elimination diet for about 9 months now and done gut healing for both of us. He's improved some but not nearly enough. We're slowly introducing solids.

Me -
Constipation
DAndruf/itchy scalp
Gas

If I decide to treat us, what would be best as I'm still breastfeeding DS and I can't take anything that will upset his system. But at this point, I feel I have nothing to lose. I've been to 2 naturopaths & neither have helped.

Mom to DMI & Silly Apple
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#136 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just a quickee, I'll be back shortly. I just learned via pm that some probiotics contain maltodextrin. Apparently rice maltodextrin. This contains maltose. Which is malt. Which is a nono. She was putting it into her child's water bottle so he was getting a steady dose of a yeast growth product all day. Other well meaning mama's may also be doing something like this. Perhaps the probiotic effect outweighs the malt affect, I cannot say for sure. But I do think another probiotic, when you have the choice, may be better.

Some maltodextrins may not actually contain malt, as I have found this: maltrin
Quote:
# MALTRIN® maltodextrins are not produced from and do not contain malt products.
Just something to check on your probiotics.

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#137 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:11 PM
 
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Any UCs out there having all these problems with the allergies?
yup.
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#138 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:15 PM
 
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Get the ND to double check the nystatin. The only damage it can do to your liver is the die off, which any anti-parasitic/anti-yeast will do anyway. It cannot cross membranes, ie, isn't absorbed. Tell me how the OoO goes as I have considered it many times.

Jane, what autoimmune problems do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

Nathenial, I'd love to know how your results come out. What symptoms does your son have when he reacts? Is it skin, digestive, or a mixture of a few things?

Gotta run, baby awake...

Ditto this, it's Diflucan that is a nightmare for the liver. As Calm said, Nystatin is quite gentle on the liver, barring die-off but that's going to happen with any effective treatment.
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I feel the exact same way, guilt & all. Although some, small, insane type A part of me wants to have a baby & do it right (no gut issues). How crazy is that?
Umm, that's what my lo is! Kidding! I wanted him regardless, but I was hoping that gut-healing was going to keep us from a replay of food allergies and leaky gut. So far, it's not lookin' so good. . .
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Ditto this, it's Diflucan that is a nightmare for the liver. As Calm said, Nystatin is quite gentle on the liver, barring die-off but that's going to happen with any effective treatment.
FF, did you find a doctor to prescribe oral nystatin? I'm afraid that without any conventional signs of yeast (like rashes or thrush), I won't get a doctor to prescribe something for my lo.
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#141 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:25 PM
 
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I ordered it from the UK because I didn't want what's available in the US. I got a powder and mixed the suspension myself. When I researched it this sounded like the best option.
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#142 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:26 PM
 
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Calm, I asked this before on the other thread, but I'm wondering where you stand on heavy metals? It's useless to treat yeast if metals are present. What do you think?
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#143 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:38 PM
 
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Calm, I asked this before on the other thread, but I'm wondering where you stand on heavy metals? It's useless to treat yeast if metals are present. What do you think?
Now you are depressing me...


Pat

I have a blog.
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#144 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:39 PM
 
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Oh, Pat!!! Don't be! They are very easy to test for, so you can know quite easily. Inexpensively too.
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#145 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 07:57 PM
 
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I've been out of this discussion for awhile but...
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I ordered it from the UK because I didn't want what's available in the US. I got a powder and mixed the suspension myself. When I researched it this sounded like the best option.
(bolding mine) Would you mind sharing where exactly? I've always wondered about online pharmacies etc. I am sure so many of them are fine but just have no way of knowing which ones. I'd consider that very valuable information! TIA
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#146 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Calm,

I'm now wondering about yeast b/c me & my kids have been unable to heal. What do you think? Here are my kid's symptoms:

DD - 4.5 yrs
Redness on her labia
periods of frequent urination
red cheeks (all the time it seems)
Tons of air in her digestive system (distended tummy)
Lots of gas
Very loose stools (usually has stomach pain before pooping)
Very emotionally volatile
Vacilates between irritability & euphoria

She is already gluten & dairy free. I suspect some other allergens or sensitivities. She is supposed to have ALCAT testing done when I can get her to agree to the blood draw.

DS - 1 yr
Mucousy green poops
Redness around the anus
Really bad sleep
Constantly growling stomach
Dry skin
Congestion

I have been on an elimination diet for about 9 months now and done gut healing for both of us. He's improved some but not nearly enough. We're slowly introducing solids.

Me -
Constipation
DAndruf/itchy scalp
Gas

If I decide to treat us, what would be best as I'm still breastfeeding DS and I can't take anything that will upset his system. But at this point, I feel I have nothing to lose. I've been to 2 naturopaths & neither have helped.
Sounds like it could be yeast. Either that or parasites. Dandruff is fungus, that's treated with antifungal shampoos (called "antidandruff" shampoos but they contain antifungals like zinc pyrithione and ketoconazole). So you do have a fungal problem. The question is do your children... and I'd say probably. It's worth treating.

I am treating DS with threelac and oxygen elements directly, whom I am breastfeeding (he is five months old). He has had explosive poos, like, totally maniacal poos since taking it! But digestive symptoms are a side effect. However, digestive symptoms are an effect of yeast in the gut. Either way, it will be upsetting the babie's colon, that's why I decided to treat directly.

You can use many different things to treat a baby, and even more things to treat yourself and your older child. I am an advocate of fast treatments, I don't like diet so much cos it is so slow. I do believe in diet for long term treatment and ongoing management, but as a front line yeast eradication, I don't believe it stands alone. It is necessary to eliminate sugar with all yeast treatments, to ten teaspoons a day. With threelac, they say that is all you need to do. With nystatin you must repopulate with probiotics. I also recommend avoidance of ALL vinegars and malt. If all those things don't bring change rather quickly, look into diet more, I can give more strict rules past the vinegar/sugar/malt rule if that is necessary. There are steps, and some like to jump to the strictest step first to get relief and then back peddle. If that is you, let me know and I'll tighten up your diet to fit a yeast killing program. Otherwise, eliminate the three big offenders, take a yeast killer and a probiotic. Give it two weeks to get rid of the worst of the die off. Then another two weeks to feel better. Although, if you are like us, you'll be better in a week, even though you are still having die off.

Yeast killers are:
Nystatin
Threelac
oxygen elements
oil of oregano

There are also herbs and garlic and whatnot. But I did all those and although I felt "something", nothing was like nystatin or threelac. Both my kids are detoxing on threelac right now, poor dd had bowel pain yesterday but that's because she doesn't drink enough water. So keep the kids hydrated to their tolerance level. Let them see that good food and water = relief. It can actually change their eating habits for life when they experience that synapse.

If die off is too severe, just slow it all down. Take a lesser dose of whichever killer you choose. Make a raspberry salad dressing for the older gal and entice her to gorge on green leafy veggies, like the various lettuces and bitters. Please soak all veg to be eaten raw in lugol's iodine first, or at least in some salt water or dilute hydrogen peroxide. Parasites can't be killed by washing alone, and we keep eating them on our raw food stuffs.

If you want to check up what is in threelac, you can find many pages online with it. There are some things potenially reactive to the allergic, such as lemon juice, and B vitamins. Nystatin is best bought in pure form, which I notice later in this thread can be bought from the UK aswell as Canada.

Gotta run again...

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#147 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 09:50 PM
 
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Just wanted to throw out that oil of oregano is not the best idea for a breastfeeding mom. It's generally contraindicated in pg and breastfeeding. The latter mainly because it is a great way to reduce supply FAST.

Nystatin and threelac would be preferable in a nursing relationship if you're going to do it.
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#148 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 10:07 PM
 
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I've been out of this discussion for awhile but...


(bolding mine) Would you mind sharing where exactly? I've always wondered about online pharmacies etc. I am sure so many of them are fine but just have no way of knowing which ones. I'd consider that very valuable information! TIA
MotherWren,
I will look it up for you. It was a one time thing a long time ago and I couldn't begin to tell you. I do have it written in my book from that year. As soon as I can I will look it up.
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#149 of 1043 Old 09-11-2008, 11:06 PM
 
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Yea, I agree. I was going to use OoO. But I decided against it for that very reason.

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Just wanted to throw out that oil of oregano is not the best idea for a breastfeeding mom. [...] The latter mainly because it is a great way to reduce supply FAST
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#150 of 1043 Old 09-12-2008, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Aha! Good to know. I've been sniffing around it for a while now, heard it is very good. More sniffs show it is actually an excellent yeast killer. But I won't be able to use it if it messes with breastfeeding.

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