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#181 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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so ive been talking with mt a little through email and im kind of excited about the possibility that too much vit a could be causing the eosinophilia. its just another possibility, kwim?
as it turns out, i was taking more than recommended dose and i didnt even realize it . i was taking about 2 tbsp of the twinlabs clo per day which she feels could be enough to create toxicty. the dosage is 1-3 tsp per day and i just figured 2 tsp is roughly a tbsp and id take a little extra because of bf. at least it is something to consider and i stopped taking it when my onc asked me to a couple weeks ago so im praying maybe my bloodwork will be slightly improved today (praying and fingers crossed). boy, wouldnt i feel like an arse?!
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#182 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 11:23 AM
 
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Is there any benefit to using Dr. Ron's or Green Pastures fermented CLO, or is the regular CLO fine?
Just wanted to throw in to this fabulous discussion that fermented CLO has more concentrated nutrients, as a result of the fermentation. It also has higher proportions of D to A, and it has more E and K2 than normal CLO. The D/A ratio and K2 levels are the most important differences, imo.

A bottle of it costs more, but will last you longer because the doses are smaller. The doses are about half the amount of normal CLO dosing to get the same or better levels of nutrients -- they include a measuring syringe to help you measure the amount you need.

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#183 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh, thats really good to know! ummm, how does it taste? really taste?
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#184 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 11:59 AM
 
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Just popping in. I asked our classical homeopath for recommendations for you and CS. Here is her note. It wasn't clear if she knows of Martin Keane in Tampa, or not.

Florida: nobody in Tampa but many all over Florida. Miranda Castro in Fort
Lauderdale is excellent: (954)532-3636

Washington, Seattle: Judyth Reichenberg-Ullman or Robert Ullman at
(425)774-5599


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#185 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 12:05 PM
 
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Pat,

Can you ask is they know someone in the Boston area?

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#186 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 12:43 PM
 
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Washington, Seattle: Judyth Reichenberg-Ullman or Robert Ullman at
(425)774-5599


Pat
Thanks Pat!!

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#187 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 12:44 PM
 
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I believe Robin Murphy is still in the Boston Area. You may want to see how far Paul Herscu is from you. HE teaches in Amherst, but he may take patients in other places as well.

Those are both very well known classical homeopaths and authors.
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#188 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 12:44 PM
 
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so ive been talking with mt a little through email and im kind of excited about the possibility that too much vit a could be causing the eosinophilia. its just another possibility, kwim?
as it turns out, i was taking more than recommended dose and i didnt even realize it . i was taking about 2 tbsp of the twinlabs clo per day which she feels could be enough to create toxicty. the dosage is 1-3 tsp per day and i just figured 2 tsp is roughly a tbsp and id take a little extra because of bf. at least it is something to consider and i stopped taking it when my onc asked me to a couple weeks ago so im praying maybe my bloodwork will be slightly improved today (praying and fingers crossed). boy, wouldnt i feel like an arse?!
That's really interesting. And annoying that it's not something that doctors know... Keeping my fingers crossed for your blood test today- when will you get results?

Mom to DD1 (10/07) and DD2 (3/11)
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#189 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 12:46 PM
 
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Hmmmm, I would think if A toxicity was the cause your liver enzymes and sec. IgA would have been elevated too....please let us know.
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#190 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 01:28 PM
 
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Wow, FF, thank you so much for sharing your story, and for sharing your wisdom here with us. What is so amazing is how through all of it you were able to maintain staying aligned with your true self, and trusting what you believed. You are so right that we need to follow our heart and gut about what is going on. I regret that I didn't trust myself in the past, but what I must focus on know is that I can and will find my way through, and that somehow we will all be better for it. I do think we want life to be normal and easy, but that wouldn't be too exciting, huh? I have crazy ideas of forgetting I know anything and pretending it is all normal, and feeding my kids donuts and cereal for breakfast, but really, that is not what I would want either. Thanks FF, and all the mamas here, for sharing your wisdom and your experience, and helping me to figure this out.

ellasmama, I am so glad you feel good about cancelling the biopsy. I am eager to hear more about the CLO. Keep us posted.
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#191 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 02:16 PM
 
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as it turns out, i was taking more than recommended dose and i didnt even realize it . i was taking about 2 tbsp of the twinlabs clo per day which she feels could be enough to create toxicity. the dosage is 1-3 tsp per day and i just figured 2 tsp is roughly a tbsp and id take a little extra because of bf.
I "measure" this way with our Nordic Naturals CLO also. Does yours have added Palmitate A?

Now I am confused, because some places I see Palmitate as "natural" and other places as synthetic. Does someone have a reference? My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that you can't overdose naturally occurring vit A. But, you can overdose synthetic vit A. ???

I understand that the ratio of vit D and something else, vit C? maybe are relevant still.

Any links? I'm worried about od'g ds on vit A now with my CLO pushing. Our NN CLO says "no added Palmitate"


Ok, found this: Today, almost all Vitamin A Palmitate is synthetically produced. http://www.dairy-house.com/index.php?p=67

Pat

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#192 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 02:49 PM
 
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oh, thats really good to know! ummm, how does it taste? really taste?
It tastes bad. Really bad. I won't lie to ya.

But I have the raw fermented kind, which has no flavoring. They do make a flavored fermented type, as well. Maybe you can start there. And they do make non-gelatin capsules.

The A to D ratio of fermented CLO is 3500 i.u. of A to 600 i.u. of D, per 1 ml. There are about 5ml in a teaspoon. So a quarter-teaspoon would give you about 4375 A and 750 D. (The regular CLO ratio is 5000A to 500D.) HTH!

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#193 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:03 PM
 
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My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that you can't overdose naturally occurring vit A. But, you can overdose synthetic vit A. ???

I understand that the ratio of vit D and something else, vit C? maybe are relevant still.
I don't have any links for you, but this is my understanding, too. (Actually, now I'm remembering that it is possible to overdose on natural A from polar bear liver -- there was a thread about that a while back in H & H, maybe it has some links in it.)

But the "fractionated" synthetic A just doesn't seem to have the benefits, and does have the dangers. This article describes the dangers of synthetic A, but doesn't have very good references, unfortunately.

What's the A/D ratio of your Nordic Naturals? I don't know much about the NN brand, but I thought I had heard that they processed the oil in the right way so as not to lose the natural A & D.

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#194 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:10 PM
 
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http://www.mothering.com/discussions...lar+bear+liver

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#195 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:12 PM
 
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#196 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:18 PM
 
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Does anyone know if Carlson's CLO has synthetic Vit A? I bought some a while ago (for myself and the child's for DD) and it wasn't cheap, but I will toss it if I have too. I did order some Dr. Ron's so will use that going forward but would like to use up the Carlson's first (or make DH take it). Also, can babies take the adult stuff at a reduced dosage?

Sorry for the off topic post!
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#197 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:21 PM
 
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Apparently at one time (when the company was sold) they did use synthetic A. I contacted them several times about this situation and eventually did get an answer that (to the best of my recollection) was that it always had naturally occuring A. When the buy out happened they did start to switch but due to the massive outcry they then went back to keeping it natural. I *think* Carlson's is okay in that respect.
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#198 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:22 PM
 
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I "measure" this way with our Nordic Naturals CLO also. Does yours have added Palmitate A?

Now I am confused, because some places I see Palmitate as "natural" and other places as synthetic. Does someone have a reference? My understanding, correct me if I am wrong, is that you can't overdose naturally occurring vit A. But, you can overdose synthetic vit A. ???

I understand that the ratio of vit D and something else, vit C? maybe are relevant still.

Any links? I'm worried about od'g ds on vit A now with my CLO pushing. Our NN CLO says "no added Palmitate"


Ok, found this: Today, almost all Vitamin A Palmitate is synthetically produced. http://www.dairy-house.com/index.php?p=67

Pat
lol....I had the same source down below! Great minds...
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#199 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:25 PM
 
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What's the A/D ratio of your Nordic Naturals? I don't know much about the NN brand, but I thought I had heard that they processed the oil in the right way so as not to lose the natural A & D.
Nil vit D, essentially. 0.25-5% with a significant amount of vit A: 13-30% per tsp. But, no *added* palmitate.

The fermented CLO sounds healthy. Doesn't sound like it would help ds though, who protested changing brands to Carlson's lemon even. :-/

What is that cinnamon one that JaneS talks about?


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#200 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:28 PM
 
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Thanks for the links ladies. That last one was a new one for me. I found this too. OT for ff: regarding vit A and vaccinated children and autism: http://www.bhare.org/newtx.html


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#201 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 03:37 PM
 
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I saw that too. Maybe we should organize a dueling google search.

I think you are probably thinking about the Blue Ice cinnamon. Dr Ron sells it.
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#202 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:02 PM
 
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Does anyone know if Carlson's CLO has synthetic Vit A? I bought some a while ago (for myself and the child's for DD) and it wasn't cheap, but I will toss it if I have too. I did order some Dr. Ron's so will use that going forward but would like to use up the Carlson's first (or make DH take it). Also, can babies take the adult stuff at a reduced dosage?

Sorry for the off topic post!
This is old news, but specific to Carlson's: http://onibasu.com/blog/2005/04/cod-...-contents.html

The Carlson's site does not identify whether Vit A or Vit D is *added*.

Can't recommend about babies. The Weston Price infant formula does include CLO. http://www.westonaprice.org/children/recipes.html




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#203 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:07 PM
 
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So basically steer clear of polar bear, seal and Husky dog liver.


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#204 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:09 PM
 
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ellasmama, we've been chatting while you were getting your bloodwork. How did it go?


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#205 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:15 PM
 
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The only concern *I* know of for infants (and this is only really relevant as I know it for babies under 6 months.) in ingesting CLO with naturally occurring A and D is that they can be hindered developmentally with too much EPA. This is not generally an issue in high vitamin CLO ( I don't think) because you don't take enough to have it be a great source of DHA or EPA. I don't know if there's too much out there on this.
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#206 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just popping in. I asked our classical homeopath for recommendations for you and CS. Here is her note. It wasn't clear if she knows of Martin Keane in Tampa, or not.

Florida: nobody in Tampa but many all over Florida. Miranda Castro in Fort
Lauderdale is excellent: (954)532-3636

Pat

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That's really interesting. And annoying that it's not something that doctors know... Keeping my fingers crossed for your blood test today- when will you get results?
thank you again, pat . im thinking of going with the nd i found in tampa that ff thought might be ok. we are a few hours from ft. lauderdale here.
i went and had my blood work done, but i wont know the results till monday 2pm. i am so hopeful...

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Hmmmm, I would think if A toxicity was the cause your liver enzymes and sec. IgA would have been elevated too....please let us know.
i was worried about that too. mt just wrote me again and said that she forwarded everything i told her to her doc friend who is a professor and he said he definitely thinks it would be the clo!?! i am floored.

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It tastes bad. Really bad. I won't lie to ya.

But I have the raw fermented kind, which has no flavoring. They do make a flavored fermented type, as well. Maybe you can start there. And they do make non-gelatin capsules.

The A to D ratio of fermented CLO is 3500 i.u. of A to 600 i.u. of D, per 1 ml. There are about 5ml in a teaspoon. So a quarter-teaspoon would give you about 4375 A and 750 D. (The regular CLO ratio is 5000A to 500D.) HTH!
welp, i think i might stay clear of the clo for a little while, but i could gag down 1/4tsp of your rancid-tasting fermented clo in the future
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#207 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The only concern *I* know of for infants (and this is only really relevant as I know it for babies under 6 months.) in ingesting CLO with naturally occurring A and D is that they can be hindered developmentally with too much EPA. This is not generally an issue in high vitamin CLO ( I don't think) because you don't take enough to have it be a great source of DHA or EPA. I don't know if there's too much out there on this.
wow, that is really important! i wish there were more info on this!
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#208 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 04:26 PM
 
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Interesting. I can't wait to hear the results! As an aside, I quit pushing the CLO on my daughter about 3 months ago- because I was afraid it could interfere with her learning to eat and I didn't want to make her aversive with the fight. About 2 months ago she started to get markedly better... of course there are alot of different facets going on in our healing, but now I have to wonder if leaving CLO behind didn't help somehow? I just reintroduced it to her a few days ago and she drank it willingly, once. She didn't want it last night. Hmmm.

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#209 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 05:03 PM
 
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The only concern *I* know of for infants (and this is only really relevant as I know it for babies under 6 months.) in ingesting CLO with naturally occurring A and D is that they can be hindered developmentally with too much EPA. This is not generally an issue in high vitamin CLO ( I don't think) because you don't take enough to have it be a great source of DHA or EPA. I don't know if there's too much out there on this.
So what would you recommend for an infant (6 mo old)? Would you give CLO? DD's pediatrician has recommended we give it to her, but she said to give Carlson's for kids or Nordic Naturals for kids.
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#210 of 338 Old 11-20-2008, 05:11 PM
 
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I personally would, and have. Dd had CLO from about 1 month as she had demyelinization issues. I would give the high vitamin stuff though, it's what our ancestors took. When my grandmothers talk about taking CLO as kids it was the HV stuff. To me there's no reason to mess with that. Plus the A and D is essential.

Dd couldn't have the HVCLO at first because she needed the EFA/DHA. We had to get a specific brand that was high EFA/DHA low EPA preparation. It had very little vitamin action going on.

Unless your kids are really needing the EFA's I'd go high vitamin.
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