Toddler dentistry questions...fillings, papoose board, etc. - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 45 Old 02-03-2010, 08:58 AM
 
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I took my DD in to the dentist with already-pretty-bad cavities just before her 2nd birthday. We had to do another "initial visit" with that dentist at a second office, where our insurance would cover the work (it didn't at the first place, so we paid out of pocket for that). He seemed OK, and competent enough... except that he didn't remember us from one visit to the next, and recommended getting the teeth filled/pulled/etc ASAP under sedation, but couldn't give us an appointment to have it done locally.

Anyway, today we're off to a third initial appointment, at Children's Hospital, which takes half a day to get to, but at least I know they have the facility to treat her. It's so stressful!
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#32 of 45 Old 03-04-2010, 01:22 AM
 
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Just discovered tht there was a new posting......so what happened at the children's hospital?

Anyone else have any updates, new discoveries, new thoughts, etc.?

I am ashamed to admit, this whole thing has stressed me out so badly that I just "put my head in the sand" and did nothing for a few weeks. Procrastinating at its best

I still don't know what to decide. Right now my problem is that the dentist had recommended the work should be done very soon, but we're going out of country for a month in April. So now I'm wondering whether to squeeze the surgery in BEFORE the trip (if yes, what kind...sedation or GA)...or just wait and see until afterwards (especially since I'm still not 100% comfortable with the extent of work he recommended).

I'm tentatively leaning towards waiting, but I'm also afraid something might happen during the trip, maybe triggered by the flying etc.?

So....even if no one has any new insight, just share where you're at in your struggles and commiserate
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#33 of 45 Old 03-04-2010, 11:28 AM
 
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I think it is really important to act cautiously but quickly, I know what the heck does that mean right? For us we got multiple opinions to make sure that the diagnosis and treatment plan were accurate and to make sure we felt totally comfortable with our dentist. We chose GA because our son was only 2 and there was NO WAY the work would have been done well under the in office, plus they don't have the kind of things on hand the hospital would if he did have a reaction to the sedative, also I don't really go for the idea of concious sedation that will allow for such thrashing and screaming that he would need to be strapped down but somehow he wouldn't remember. It was all scarey, really scarey.

It took us 6 mos to find the dentist and cycle through opinions and in that time the decay went from being white spots that looked like small pieces of food I had missed to being big-almost over the whole tooth, brown grooves. Toddler tooth decay can progress very quickly and infections are very dangerous and can threaten adult teeth as well as causing pain. Take the time you need to make the best choice for your family but keep in mind that as time goes by things will get worse so don't just try to ignore it or hope somehow your lo will be ready to start loosing teeth naturally before treatment would be necessary-btdt.
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#34 of 45 Old 03-05-2010, 08:12 PM
 
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Thanks for sharing your experience

I am also leaning toward GA because of all the things you mentioned. I'm just not at the point where I can fully commit to it (also I have to do some more research about the financing.....will have to see whether this dentist will classify the GA as "necessary", so that our health insurance will help with the hospital costs )

I wish we had another ped dentist around here so I could get a second opinion. There's one I've heard of in the next "big city" but he has an 8 month waiting list for new patients so that's out of the question. There's no one else out here.

We have been working on halting his decay ever since he was about 9 months old (he'll turn 3 in May). So his decay is already in the brown/black stage. In that light, would you try to get things done before our out-of-country trip in April, or would you wait until we get back in May and set it all up for then?
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#35 of 45 Old 03-06-2010, 05:08 PM
 
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If he is in the brown/black stage I would get it done ASAP to minimize the chance of infection from abcesses that can travel up the vulnerable root of the tooth and present complications in their extraction as well as pain for the little guy.

I sympathize with you so much and I am so sorry that you are going through this.

Some things that might help you emotionally s...

My son was up and running around the house the same night of the procedure and eating way too many popcicles and jello cups. He also had homemade chicken soup-with everything cooked a little extra- that same night and thought it was funny when chicken kept falling out if he smiled. Within the week he wanted to get back to the park.

I played up that it was so totally awesome that he was already making room for his big boy teeth to come in when most kids have to wait unitl they are way older like one of his older cousins, he said he felt like a big man.

He eats whole apples, corn on the cob, and subs. I don't know how but he does it.

They don't make you change out gauze all the time, they use a foam and there was no need for pain relievers which is a relief from what I expected.

It will be hard to loose the smile you are used to but they still smile and its goofy and cute. Making sure that we kept all of the scarey feelings to our selves kept him positive too. Kids don't really seem to care, its mostly adults that freak out and we stay cool about it and he says "don't worry look [points at his bottom teeth] i still have teeth, its ok" lol. He has actually had a couple of occasions when a kid will FREAK OUT excited because they had the same work done and think its awesome to have silver teeth(stainless steel not mercury).

If its a children's hospital they are also willing to flex to best accomodate your child. When mine screamed "i want my mommy!!!" and no one could hold him still and got his pulse ready to exit the 190s they brought me into recovery and when his pulse dropped below 150 within a minute of hitting my arms, they disconnected all the crap that was bothering him and sat with us. I sang to him and he fell asleep.

He was not nursing anymore-very newly weaned at a little over two. But I know some mothers who were still nursing pumped before hand so that after the procedure they could offer it in a cup until the lo would be ready to nurse.

I hope that is helpful, sorry if its too long.

His procedure took 4+ hours. I used that time to cry A LOT. But when he came out all of the decay was gone. We didn't have to think about it anymore, the other teeth were safe. And, happily, a year later his cleaning went great and no cavities, yay! So it did work, it did address the problem.
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#36 of 45 Old 03-07-2010, 10:13 PM
 
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When you say it's i the brown/black stage, do you mean it was white denting and has progressed to brown grooves, or do you mean it was decayed, and now the decay is covering over with the (increasingly) black & glossy sealing stuff that Nagel mentions in CUre Tooth Decay (that is a sign of healing)?

If I saw it continuing to decay, but slowly, I might put it off some more. If it was continuing to decay rapidly and I was about to go out of the country for a month, I'd lean strongly towards getting the work done before leaving. If it was not continuing to decay, and/or was healing, I would not get it done now, although I'd be fastidious about continuing to eat real, whole, nourishing foods while away, and make that an important part of my trip planning.

I'd also get really familiar with the C protocol - vitamin C & restoring nutritious eating has taken care of our abscesses (which, again, are not a danger in themselves, they are only the body's response to a growing infection and when properly done, they contain it beautifully & without pain) every time, whether with teeth or an infected bite on ds' leg or an infected wart on a girly toe. And pack my SAP & bioflavonoids, for sure.

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I am ashamed to admit, this whole thing has stressed me out so badly that I just "put my head in the sand" and did nothing for a few weeks.
That has been my response to this dental nightmare more times than I can count, too. s: It's so tough, and it sucks, but one thing that helps me is to keep in mind that they're teeth. TBTG it's not cancer or something equally tragic.
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#37 of 45 Old 03-07-2010, 10:20 PM
 
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It will be hard to loose the smile you are used to but they still smile and its goofy and cute. Making sure that we kept all of the scarey feelings to our selves kept him positive too. Kids don't really seem to care, its mostly adults that freak out and we stay cool about it and he says "don't worry look [points at his bottom teeth] i still have teeth, its ok" lol.
So, so true. My son's decay happened so fast (while I was trying to get the dentist to do something about it and she (who was a sub) said he was "too young" and by the next visit, the four front top teeth were GONE to the gumline) that he has an amazing vampire smile, lol. But as much as it makes *me* want to cry, it's important to keep that to myself, and I encourage relatives to, too - he doesn't know, notice, or care at all at age 2, and I doubt he'll care as he gets older as long as no one else makes any kind of deal about it to him.
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#38 of 45 Old 03-07-2010, 10:29 PM
 
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Ds hasnt had his top 4 teeth since he was 2y2m and it has been a non issue for him or anyone else. The other kids just assume that he lost those teeth like they will eventually and adults dont even seem to notice.

His decay started as soon as those teeth came past the gum line and within 8 months they had broken off to the gum and he got abcessed so they where pulled in office with just local and me and the hygenist holding him down. It took less than a minute and I have no regrets about it.

I wasnt willing to risk his life under GA just to have 4 teeth removed.

 
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#39 of 45 Old 03-07-2010, 10:57 PM
 
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Both of our kids had extensive early decay.

The first one had two fillings and a crown at age two. The second had four fillings by age three.

With DS1, he was going to a ped dentist who used in-office sedation by injection. There were things we didn't like about that practice though...parents were not allowed to stay in the room and the practice was not supportive of breastfeeding - and we left it when I couldn't get DS2 in for an appointment sooner than a month away after I found a large brown hole on the backside of a front tooth.

So now we go to a different ped dentist. I like this practice much better. He does use the papoose board, and does not do in-office sedation (except nitrous oxide) because he does not feel it is safe. He told me that if he needs to do work that is extensive enough for sedation beyond nitrous and novacaine, he wants a real anesthesiologist taking care of the anesthesia and monitoring the patient, so he can focus on the dental work, so he does those cases in a hospital. For quick procedures he uses nitrous and novacaine in his office. He does use the papoose board with a body wrap for very young kids who cannot hold still or who will fight the entire procedure, or who just feel more comfortable wrapped up. At age two, our son fit all three of those. His cavities were wide but shallow - very quick to clean and fill, and we agreed that the risk of general anesthesia was not justified.

Parents are invited to stay through the whole procedure at this practice. Both times (two sets of fillings) I held him in my lap in the chair with a nitrous mask on for a few minutes, then we transferred him to the board and wrap. I was at his feet and talking to him the entire time. He was not happy but I did not expect him to be, and I felt strongly after DS1's crown that I wanted DS2s decay to be addressed ASAP. I was not willing to wait until he was "ready" to be agreeable to having dental work done and have his teeth rot away in that time, or use general anesthesia for such quick fillings.

This dentist is very supportive of breastfeeding, including extended breastfeeding, okay with alternative vax schedules, very thorough in his work, and his office is a very positive place where the whole staff does their best to help the kids be relaxed and have a positive experience. He uses the papoose board for safety and security, and does his best to have the kids calm along with being wrapped. The board worked well for our son, keeping him safe and allowing the dental staff to do their job as quickly as possible. If I had to do it again, I wouldn't change a thing.

I came back to add that GA can also be a bit traumatic. Both of our kids have each had two surgeries under GA and both times they were pretty unhappy for at least 30 minutes after coming out from under. Also from my own experiences I hate the feeling of coming out from under GA. I would look at GA for a very long or involved dental procedure, but other than keeping a kid from having to be awake through a long procedure, I don't see it as less traumatic than using nitrous oxide and a papoose board when necessary for a quick procedure.

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#40 of 45 Old 03-07-2010, 11:46 PM
 
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I wish I could have found a dentist like yours laundrycrisis but I ended up having to use the one who has a no parent in the room policy It was either that or GA and for me GA was not an option.

I talked to every ped practice in my area 6+ of them and every single one that did in office sedation had the no parent policy. Now that ds's work is done I will not go back to that practice again. From here on out our family dentist can do the work with nitrus and novicain.

 
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#41 of 45 Old 03-08-2010, 04:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Denali View Post
My dentist said pretty much the same thing today. They usually let the parents help hold the kid down, but he said "we also have a board to help if necessary" (which I told him I didn't like )
He also said that due to the drugs he uses for "conscious sedation", the kids won't remember at all afterwards. But it's hard for me to believe that struggling for an hour won't traumatize them in some way

He said he'd still prefer in office sedation to general anesthesia in the hospital since there are fewer risks involved.....and I don't know what to think or to decide
we had in-office sedation, no parents allowed with my ds at 1-1/2 for some fillings and it sucked. it was hard to get him to drink the sedative and hard to watch them take him away.

we did ga at a surgery center for my dd at 20 months and it worked like a dream. she had an anesthesiologist dedicated to her, her dentist had been doing it a long time and she was under for less than an hour. she woke up easily unlike my ds who was drowsy/passing out all day and her teeth are fixed.

it helped that my dentist was awesome and all about trying to prevent the decay with xylitol and mi paste and also stated that ideally we could lessen breastfeeding but that he understood that didn't always happen. he also wanted us to be able to keep it from progressing until she was old enough for nitrous and novacaine but when he said that we weren't going to be able to make it we decided to fix her teeth while there was still enough healthy tooth to make a cap and before it got to her roots.

i'm so glad we did. she can eat apples and smile and she's not in any pain nor are her roots damaged because we caught it in time.

best of luck mama!

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#42 of 45 Old 03-10-2010, 08:34 AM
 
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Thanks to all of you for sharing your experiences
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Originally Posted by eternamariposa View Post
If its a children's hospital they are also willing to flex to best accomodate your child. When mine screamed "i want my mommy!!!" and no one could hold him still and got his pulse ready to exit the 190s they brought me into recovery and when his pulse dropped below 150 within a minute of hitting my arms, they disconnected all the crap that was bothering him and sat with us. I sang to him and he fell asleep.
That's one thing I don't like about the GA option: It's not a children's hospital (there's none in our area), and the dentist already said that I would not be allowed to be there when he wakes up in recovery. Judging from my own experience at the same hospital (he was born there), they are pretty inflexible when it comes to rules and regulations

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Originally Posted by eternamariposa View Post
He was not nursing anymore-very newly weaned at a little over two. But I know some mothers who were still nursing pumped before hand so that after the procedure they could offer it in a cup until the lo would be ready to nurse.
Oh, with my son, it's probably not the milk he wants but the comfort of "boobie"

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Originally Posted by NatrlCatholicMama View Post
When you say it's i the brown/black stage, do you mean it was white denting and has progressed to brown grooves, or do you mean it was decayed, and now the decay is covering over with the (increasingly) black & glossy sealing stuff that Nagel mentions in CUre Tooth Decay (that is a sign of healing)?
Good question.....I'm not sure.
A few of the teeth with smaller spots are in the active decay phase, i think, with brown grooves.
The top 4 teeth (the worst ones, that are almost down to the gum line) seem to be in an inactive phase with black color....I guess I'll have to finish reading the 'cure tooth decay' book to understand it better

Quote:
Originally Posted by NatrlCatholicMama View Post
I'd also get really familiar with the C protocol - vitamin C & restoring nutritious eating has taken care of our abscesses (which, again, are not a danger in themselves, they are only the body's response to a growing infection and when properly done, they contain it beautifully & without pain) every time, whether with teeth or an infected bite on ds' leg or an infected wart on a girly toe. And pack my SAP & bioflavonoids, for sure.
I don't know anything about the vit. C protocol, except for what you wrote in another posting, but will research it

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Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
It took less than a minute and I have no regrets about it. I wasnt willing to risk his life under GA just to have 4 teeth removed.
That's true for short procedures...unfortunately for my son, it'll be about an hour of dental work, which I find a quite long time

Quote:
Originally Posted by laundrycrisis View Post
This dentist is very supportive of breastfeeding, including extended breastfeeding, okay with alternative vax schedules, very thorough in his work, and his office is a very positive place where the whole staff does their best to help the kids be relaxed and have a positive experience.
Wow...seems you really lucked out with him

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Originally Posted by laundrycrisis View Post
I would look at GA for a very long or involved dental procedure,
Would you consider an hour "very long"?
The extractions are supposed to take only a few minutes, the rest is for the crowns etc. The dentist said that ds is "on the verge", meaning that right now I still have the choice between sedation and GA, but if it got any worse, he'd definitely have to have GA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayaMama
we had in-office sedation, no parents allowed with my ds at 1-1/2 for some fillings and it sucked. it was hard to get him to drink the sedative and hard to watch them take him away.
I'm glad that our dentist allows the parents in the room.....the entire thing is hard enough as it is

Again, thanks to everyone.....I'll keep you posted about our developments, too
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#43 of 45 Old 03-12-2010, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi everyone,

OP here! I'm really glad everyone has come and talked about their experiences, options, and fears. We're reaching the end of a journey that started 6 months ago.

Since my original post, we have seen five additional dentists. Our insurance company changed providers, so after finding a dentist we loved, we had to start from scratch. We've seen four pediatric dentists and two primary dentists. All agree that 3 root canals and a filling are unavoidable.

I've read up on biological dentistry and Weston Price. I love the ideas, but there is no biological dentist near me and I can't afford to pay anything out-of-pocket.

So yesterday we made the decision: on April 5th we're taking DS in for oral sedation and nitrous oxide. He'll have 3 pulpotomies and a filling. We had a choice between doing this and GA in the office, which would have cost over $1,000. Our insurance does not cover GA in hospital. Our pediatrician wasn't comfortable with GA in office, so we're going with the sedation. At least we don't need extractions.

I am scared, scared, scared, but we need to do this. Of the four teeth that need work, one is now broken and another is chipped. I keep feeling like I somehow did something wrong, but I know that's not the case. DS has preemie caries and there's not much I could have done to prevent it.

I'll let you know how things go in April. Please think good thoughts for us.

"In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer"
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#44 of 45 Old 03-12-2010, 04:25 PM
 
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I know exactly the fear you are having. DS did the sedation in office twice and both times the hardest part turned out to be getting the meds down. Some advice take a medicine dropper or syringe with you. Here they dont provide one and it was very hard to give ds the meds the first time with the little cups. Almost dropped them when he moved away. Take your time giving the meds it took 15 minutes both times for me to get it all down ds because he was trying to gag after each little bit. Doing it slow helped him so much with that. I was able to let him rinse and spit after each tiny bit I gave him but he was old enough to know not to swollow.

I also had the guilt but honestly ds's teeth came in bad it had nothing to do with what I did or didnt do despite dentists trying to blame nursing. If that where true then both my kids would have had bad teeth since they nursed exactly the same way until weaning at the exact same age. It is just one of those things that happen genetics I think are a big part of it.

 
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#45 of 45 Old 03-13-2010, 04:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Denali View Post
Would you consider an hour "very long"?
The extractions are supposed to take only a few minutes, the rest is for the crowns etc. The dentist said that ds is "on the verge", meaning that right now I still have the choice between sedation and GA, but if it got any worse, he'd definitely have to have GA.
I would feel like an hour would be a long time for me to be in the chair (I had four wisdom teeth extracted under local with no nitrous - it was a very long hour), but I can mentally handle it. If it was a young child who was going to be pretty calm, with nitrous, it might still be pushing it. If it was a young child who was going to be really unhappy and/or the nitrous was not working, I would think that was too long. I would probably want to split that procedure up, or do it under GA. I felt like getting the nitrous working was really important, and then getting the work done quickly.

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