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Old 01-16-2011, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sitting still isn't usually an issue from my experience, from the experience of the doc that did it and from talking to others that have done it.  It takes under a minute.



 



dd wasn't traumatized in the slightest.  ds didn't enjoy it.  However I wasn't with him and for him I think he was more afraid than anything.  we talked a lot, used homeopathy and flowers and it's really been fine.  He used gas on both as well as novocaine.



 



I'd say it took a week to look as though nothing had happened.  2 days before I could slack on remedies.  We did a lot to help it though and I will say the doc was pretty suprised.  I used homeopathy, cell salts and two herbs.  They fussed initially so I increased the potency of the remedy and never heard about it again-except for first thing in the morning for two days following the procedure (which would have been the case with meds too after a good night's sleep.)



 



I'm certainly not saying there isn't an underlying nutritional issue...just that a mechanical issue can exacerbate that and prevent you from seeing swift changes.



 




 



But we're talking a squirmy baby here, getting close to 10mo. He doesn't sit still for much of anything!

And yeah, that's the way I'm seeing it too, that you need the nutrition and the mechanics, and that either alone won't solve the issue by itself.

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Old 01-16-2011, 10:54 AM
 
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Kotlow in Albany is the guy I'd talk to.  He doesn't seem to have issues with any age.  He even deals quite a bit with autistic children he said (and compliance wouldn't be the strong suite there.)  He may use gas to chill babes out a bit, dunno.  I'd ask.  I had ZERO expectation that either of my kids would sit.  We talked a lot about it beforehand.  I was very, very suprised.  But he does these every day (I liked that) so it's not like he's struggling with an unfamiliar situation...he has experience with all ages.  I went up with a 2 week old as well (not mine) and there were toddlers in there waiting as well.  He has skills, I guess.  LOL.

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Old 01-16-2011, 11:08 AM
 
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wow his doesn't seem super tight, but as a baby it was in between his two front teeth. wow wow. bolded ones are so my ds!! (need to look up the last one not too sure what it means notes.gif)
 

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hmmm, I'm not sure I'm fully aware of all the issues that are affected.  for sure I can speak to:

 

digestive function

reflux

sinus difficulties

breathing

coordination

balancing the autonomic nervous system

 

there are more, I just can't think right now so I'll be back,  The maxillary frenulum also does seem to affect structure-so the shape of the palate as well.  It's all connected and I was certainly skeptical, but I've seen it make a difference so I called uncle.  Doing the revision changed the way my daughter stands.  I kid you not.  One of the first things I noticed as well (aside from the clear speech changes-which weren't really a *problem* for her) was that her muscles relaxed.  She was hypertonic until she got the revision.  This is in the report from our doctor to the person that performed the procedure.  I'm really suprised at what it affected.

 

They released the entire maxillary frenulum.  For her (and my ds) it went between their teeth and back into their palate.  They released all of it up to basically where the lip meets the gums.  It was kinda hilarious (and yes, I'm sure I'm going to hell for this) right after.  For the first week she couldn't figure out what to do with her lip...there was so much more movement!  She really stumbled, and startled each time she smiled.  Her smile TOTALLY changed.  Of course at 6 she had really integrated things so this was a major change.

 

Ds is 4 and things changed a TON for him, but more in the realm of speech/breathing.  I can't say his structure changed as much as hers, but it did a bit.  Hers was just unbelievable.  She also has a tic, and within a week it diminished in frequency by about 65%.  I'd say it's 80%  better at this point.  The docs believe that the anchoring caused a neurological delay.  The hope is that she'll now be able to progress past that block.  That is what we seem to be seeing.  Time will tell.  She's had it for several years so it will take some time to resolve.  Who knows if it ever will completely.




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Old 01-16-2011, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Kotlow in Albany is the guy I'd talk to.  He doesn't seem to have issues with any age.  He even deals quite a bit with autistic children he said (and compliance wouldn't be the strong suite there.)  He may use gas to chill babes out a bit, dunno.  I'd ask.  I had ZERO expectation that either of my kids would sit.  We talked a lot about it beforehand.  I was very, very suprised.  But he does these every day (I liked that) so it's not like he's struggling with an unfamiliar situation...he has experience with all ages.  I went up with a 2 week old as well (not mine) and there were toddlers in there waiting as well.  He has skills, I guess.  LOL.



I'm guessing you don't mean Albany, CA.  Got any rec's for people in california (or minnesota or texas)?


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Old 01-16-2011, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, dh and are actually having a productive conversation about this!

 

He's finding stuff about the front frenulum correcting itself around age 10, or when the permanent teeth come in.

http://books.google.com/books?id=pqhzzcjCFH4C&lpg=PA306&ots=nWd7V21SXd&dq=Frenulum%20Labii%20Superioris%20normal&pg=PA306#v=onepage&q=Frenulum%20Labii%20Superioris%20normal&f=false

 

Any way to tell what will correct and what won't?

 

And for the science project folk (cough*tanyacough), any ideas on showing fluid flow with various barriers in place?  I think dh could use a visual on this one.


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Old 01-16-2011, 12:31 PM
 
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here's a link with some information (not totally complete) on the potential impact without correction:

 

http://www.tonguetie.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=3

 

This is a hard one, because people only know what they're taught and this isn't something that's been taught.  It's something that has come into the public eye in the last few years, but the results speak for themselves.  The people in the forefront are the ones with the answers.  For so long in many areas of medicine people just go with the status quo and look at things through their own lens.  TT is NOT just a breastfeeding problem....but many will still say that it is.  So it's not always enough to simply look at the widely accepted stance.

 

Someone said that even Dr. Kotlow a few years ago said that if breastfeeding was going well not to worry about a tight frenulum.  He's certainly not saying that now. 

 

I'd contact him and see if he has anyone in your area that he could refer you to.  That and just review the information.  If it makes sense to take action, then it makes sense.  If not, then perhaps just stay open to new evidence.

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Old 01-16-2011, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, from his website:

 

 

 

I think this is *exactly* the sort of thing dh is looking for.  Can't wait till he gets home!  Thanks love.gif


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Old 01-16-2011, 07:34 PM
 
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he really has a lot of great info.  I'm glad you found it helpful!

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Old 01-16-2011, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah.  Holy moly.  Dh and I had a civil conversation, he did some research on his own, he listened to my explanations, I framed things in ways he was responsive to (engineering fluid dynamics vs 'someone online said') and neither one of us got super stressed or defensive.  And now... he's on board with finding someone to do this 'revision.'  We both think calling it a revision is odd, though shy.gif

 

I think I'm crediting glutathione letting me keep my cool so it could be an organized and rational conversation.  I heartbeat.gif glutathione.


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Old 01-16-2011, 07:55 PM
 
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and it loves you!

 

Yes, it's odd language, but it's the proper language.  It's not a cut, as no scalpel is used.  It's a revision.  Took me awhile too, I totally get it.

 

Congrats.  Dh and I were totally anti procedure.  It took me seeing results to come around.  He took longer cause he's not in the clinic, ya know?  He's sold now.  It was a long drive, it was stressful, but it was worth it.  I do, however, understand the significance of a civil discussion.  Yay.

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Old 01-19-2011, 09:53 PM
 
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PB, I'm hoping to get at least 3 of my children "revised", lol, very soon. 7 yrs, 2 yrs and 4 mos. Can you please share the exact things you used before and after to help with the healing/pain/etc.?


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Old 01-19-2011, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wanted to update - between the cell salts, the vitamin D direct to ds, and focusing on sips of water and xylitol gel as often as we think about it, his teeth look about the same as they did several days ago. That definitely beats looking worse at the end of the day than that same morning! eta: and lots of biotin for me and a bit direct to ds too)
joy.gifjoy.gif
And I have a couple leads for someone who will likely do the revisions. I think choosing to actually go through with it is going to be one of those moments where suddenly I actually feel like a grown up parent. It's going to be tough greensad.gif


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Old 01-20-2011, 06:44 AM
 
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PB, I'm hoping to get at least 3 of my children "revised", lol, very soon. 7 yrs, 2 yrs and 4 mos. Can you please share the exact things you used before and after to help with the healing/pain/etc.?


Will do-here's a cut and paste from something I sent another interested mama:

 

 

So remedies to have on hand IMO are hypericum, arnica and bryonia.  I alternated hypericum and arnica at 1m for the first day.  By day two I moved to arnica and bryonia 200c which I kept up for 2 days, then went to 30c.

 

My kids (6 and 4) also did a solution of hypericum and calendula in water (10:1 water to tincture) and rinsed with it 6 times a day.  I gave them straws, and had them sip, swish and spit.  I took them outside and let them find things to spit on (so it would be fun!)  This helped heal, cleanse, reduce pain and maintain mobility in addition to the exercises they did every waking hour.

 

They did beautifully and never needed OTC meds.  My only misstep was that I thought 200c would be high enough for the first day.  I'd have been up a creek had I not had the 1m to fall back on.

 

I did also use cell salts-ferrum phos and mag phos in their water.  Could have just done the 5 phos combo.  I did intentionally stay away from silica and calendula as remedies as I didn't want the wound to heal too fast.  I suspect that with both increasing cellular mitosis we could have had more discomfort during the healing process.

 

HTH!

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Old 01-20-2011, 08:34 AM
 
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It looks like I am here as well. We live in Serbia, Europe. My son (2 yo) has cavities on his upper front teeth, and after failing to heal them, I went to several dentists. Guess what? I just came back from the dentist. He said that, if only I'd stop breastfeeding, his cavities will stop. He is refusing to drill and fill them, because it is against their policy with young kids who can't behave well in the dentists' chair. They can't or won't do general anesthesia.

 

So I guess I am on my own. My son has decay on his upper front teeth and the ones next to them (1 and 2). We're ordering xylitol, and not quitting breastfeeding greensad.gif


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Old 01-20-2011, 12:46 PM
 
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Good for you with not quitting breastfeeding, Mittens.  From all the research I've seen, it seems to have nothing to do with tooth decay.

 

Are there other options for dentists where you live that you can try?  I found a great dentist who understands that I don't want fluoride in my dd's mouth and agrees (not saying every mom here agrees, just that you can find a dentist who agrees with your philosophies, perhaps one who won't blame it on bfing).

 

Good luck.  We go to our holistic physician tomorrow (1 hour 20 mins away, but so worth it) to talk to him about teeth, allergies, growth, etc.  I'm hoping I will come away with a bevy of new and useful info, and that it will help turn things around.

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Old 01-20-2011, 03:13 PM
 
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If there is a structural anomaly and breastfeeding is an issue then that doesn't mean the answer is to quit.  Just my two cents.  I think it's okay to acknowledge that it can play a role, but that doesn't mean that you need to quit.  It means you need to assess the alternatives.  The research that actually does discuss the issue of breastfeeding and decay is fairly new, reasonable and not a reason to stop.  It's more a why than it is a directive.

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Old 01-20-2011, 04:48 PM
 
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Good for you with not quitting breastfeeding, Mittens.  From all the research I've seen, it seems to have nothing to do with tooth decay.

 

Are there other options for dentists where you live that you can try?  I found a great dentist who understands that I don't want fluoride in my dd's mouth and agrees (not saying every mom here agrees, just that you can find a dentist who agrees with your philosophies, perhaps one who won't blame it on bfing).

 

Good luck.  We go to our holistic physician tomorrow (1 hour 20 mins away, but so worth it) to talk to him about teeth, allergies, growth, etc.  I'm hoping I will come away with a bevy of new and useful info, and that it will help turn things around.


The dentist I saw today went as far as to tell me that I could go to the state clinic for pediatric dentistry, which is part of their faculty, to hear that I was wrong and he was right, BECAUSE that is where he was taught that the only two reasons for decay are sugar and poor hygiene. It's crazy. The dentists all say that general anesthetic cannot be used (because of the risks, presumably?), yet a friend was told her two year old needed GA for an eye exam by an optometrist, because they can't sit still at that age. Anyway, the conclusion is - there are no dentists who will take a differing view. He said they start filling at age 4 or 5.

 

I really, really don't want my boy to have rotten teeth - I just want a filling!


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Old 01-20-2011, 05:10 PM
 
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I think that's absurd.  I know plenty of dentists that will do twilight, or even just nitrous to facilitate filling a child's teeth.  I'm so sorry.  I really hope you find someone with a brain and a heart.

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Old 01-30-2011, 08:16 AM
 
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PB, I'm hoping to get at least 3 of my children "revised", lol, very soon. 7 yrs, 2 yrs and 4 mos. Can you please share the exact things you used before and after to help with the healing/pain/etc.?


Will do-here's a cut and paste from something I sent another interested mama:

 

 

So remedies to have on hand IMO are hypericum, arnica and bryonia.  I alternated hypericum and arnica at 1m for the first day.  By day two I moved to arnica and bryonia 200c which I kept up for 2 days, then went to 30c.

 

My kids (6 and 4) also did a solution of hypericum and calendula in water (10:1 water to tincture) and rinsed with it 6 times a day.  I gave them straws, and had them sip, swish and spit.  I took them outside and let them find things to spit on (so it would be fun!)  This helped heal, cleanse, reduce pain and maintain mobility in addition to the exercises they did every waking hour.

 

They did beautifully and never needed OTC meds.  My only misstep was that I thought 200c would be high enough for the first day.  I'd have been up a creek had I not had the 1m to fall back on.

 

I did also use cell salts-ferrum phos and mag phos in their water.  Could have just done the 5 phos combo.  I did intentionally stay away from silica and calendula as remedies as I didn't want the wound to heal too fast.  I suspect that with both increasing cellular mitosis we could have had more discomfort during the healing process.

 

HTH!

Thank you! And one more Q? Would you do this same thing with the baby (now 4 months old)?
 


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Old 01-30-2011, 08:49 AM
 
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at four months 200c might be enough since there's less tissue.  I'd want the 1m on hand though in case.  But yes...same deal minus the spitting of the calendula/hypericum!

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Old 01-31-2011, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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An update:  we found a local orofacial myologist, and she's going to try to help us find someone locally who will do the frenectomy.  We also had an appointment with a holistic dentist, who confirmed that the frenum is tight and referred us to a pediactric dentist who will do the procedure under general anesthesia once he's older.  In the meantime, he said to continue rinsing milk off and applying xylitol, and sold us some MI paste.  Anyone have thoughts on the MI paste?  I'd use it in a second if it weren't for all the preservatives in it.


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Old 02-26-2011, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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AND his front tooth is broken and it's bothering him.  I think we're choosing to do baby root canals and cap them under general anesthesia.  Just typing that out makes me sick.  We have an appointment for the 7th, but this dentist is refusing to cut the frenum.  While I search out all our local treatment options, what are our pain management options?

 

bawling.gif


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Old 03-21-2012, 03:52 PM
 
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AND his front tooth is broken and it's bothering him.  I think we're choosing to do baby root canals and cap them under general anesthesia.  Just typing that out makes me sick.  We have an appointment for the 7th, but this dentist is refusing to cut the frenum.  While I search out all our local treatment options, what are our pain management options?

 

bawling.gif



is there any update? how is your LO doing?


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Old 03-21-2012, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow.  That was a little over a year ago, and we ended up capping the front four, and the dentist *did* cut the frenum.  Then the new teeth, molars that hadn't even erupted yet then were decaying and painful, so we did a second trip, getting the rest capped a few months later (july?)  Now his 2nd year molars are coming in, and he'll be 2 next week.  Good reminder to crank up the cell salts for him!


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Old 05-01-2012, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Panserbjorne View Posthmmm, I'm not sure I'm fully aware of all the issues that are affected.  for sure I can speak to:

 

digestive function

reflux

sinus difficulties

breathing

coordination

balancing the autonomic nervous system

 

Hey could someone take a look at these pics of my boys? I came across this thread and  I saw the picture of Theloose DC frenulum - it looks so much like my first DS.

 

I've been told we have MTFR issues. Also both kids have reflux, digestion problems, food allergies and sinus problems. My first also may be diagnosed with ASD shortly. It has been a mystery why even with meds and changes in food these children still have reflux.

 

Heres DS1 - 3 years old (Got that one while he was napping!)

035.JPG

 

Here's DS2 8 months old.

 

028.JPG


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