She has 10 cavities... I feel like I just got kicked - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 07:27 AM
 
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Try not to feel bad about the situation!  I am one of those moms with one child who has had TONS of teeth problems, and another without ANY cavities!  People are just different, children are no exception.

 

Our regular dentist found our dd's cavities, and referred us to one pediatric dentist who insisted on general anesthesia --- which would cost $5,000 or something absurd like that!

 

We got a second opinion.  And we waited.  We simply didn't want to spend that amount of money.  It seemed so excessive.  This was 2 years ago.  She got some of her teeth treated with just mild numbing to the gums.  It worked fine, she has never had any fears of the dentist.

 

Now she is 5 years-going on six.  She has developed new cavities (yikes!), but we are going to a different pediatric dentist who is going to treat them in a more normal way (that means, not GA!).  We are actually in the midst of this treatment now.  She has another appointment in 2 weeks.  My suggestion is just to look around for other dentists, and other options. 

 

 


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#32 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 09:19 AM
 
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I have a 5-year old who was found to have "4 cavities" and the dentist referred her to a pediatric dentist to do one tooth as a stainless steel cap. This was the tooth that was almost completely eroded. It couldn't be saved, but I could only see a small erosion on one of the other teeth, and nothing on the remaining two. After strapping her to a papoose board and hooking her up to the gas, the dentist came in and proceeded to completely traumatize my little girl. (She was only 4 at the time.) First they said I'd have to wait outside, to which I completely refused. Then they said I couldn't be near her to comfort her, I had to stay at the back of the room. After that, she naturally started to get upset, and when they started the procedure she started squirming and trying to move her head. Next thing I know, the dentist (supposedly this well-respected pediatric specialist) abruptly went from calm and soothing to commanding and scary - he got right in my daughter's line of sight and yelled, "STOP MOVING! You will have to hold still or this is going to HURT YOU!" I freaked out and nearly shouldered the assistant out of the way to get to my daughter, who immediately began to scream around the mouth guard. Ignoring the dentist, I put my hands on her temples and began to gently stroke and talk quietly into her ear, reassuring her and keeping myself from snatching the nearest heavy instrument to smack the dentist with. He made this disgusted sound because I was there but was able to finish quickly. Then he threw down his instrument, ripped his mask off and tossed it down, and said I'd have to schedule a hospital visit for the remaining three teeth, he wouldn't touch her unless she was under general anesthesia.

O. M. G.

The nurse thanked me repeatedly for helping hold my DD still, but never apologized for the dentist. She must have been used to that kind of behavior. I took my DD to a different dentist for a follow-up and was told that only one more cap would be needed, which they could do right there with no papoose board, and the other two spots on her teeth were way too small to worry about. But the first dentist was going to yank all those teeth!

She was obviously terrified before the next procedure but the staff was amazing. They sang to her, danced toys above her eyes, told jokes and let me stay right there to hold her hand. It helped that she wasn't strapped down either.

Just about a month ago, one of those "spots" was discovered to have eroded enough to require another cap. This was yet another dentist, but they were as amazing as the 2nd. No restraint, only a little gas, and the dentist made silly noises and told stories to her about her "princess" tooth he was giving her.

Personally, I am terrified of dentists due to a very traumatic procedure done when I was 18. I have to say, though, I am glad my daughter seems to have been reassured after that first terrifying event. She did cry when they tried to clean her teeth last time, but eventually relaxed and let them do it for her.

Both of my boys have perfect teeth (well, in comparison). No fillings, anyway. My son's got a few issues not related to decay and will eventually need braces but he's great at the dentist. Way better than me!! I got my first two fillings ever last year and I was a trembling, retching nervous wreck before the procedure!

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#33 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 11:46 AM
 
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Wow, I cannot believe some of these stories! I take my kids to the Ped dentist. They're awesome with the kids - cartoons, toys, treats, huge fish tank, and lots of time taken to explain what everything is. I wish it was more holistic, but I'm super happy with the atmosphere. My 4 year old had one small cavity. She's a wimp to begin with, so I knew she would not be happy. It took 3 of us to hold her down, and the dentist did her thing, while talking calmly to her and trying to explain what was happning. I held her hands, there was a dental assistant who held her head, and one had to come in a lay over her and whispered softly in her ear. She still freaked out, but they were done quickly and gave her a popsicle when she was done. She's been for a check-up since, and had no issues with being back at the Dentist. In fact, she often asks when she can go back!

 


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#34 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 04:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SeekingSerenity View Post

I have a 5-year old who was found to have "4 cavities" and the dentist referred her to a pediatric dentist to do one tooth as a stainless steel cap. This was the tooth that was almost completely eroded. It couldn't be saved, but I could only see a small erosion on one of the other teeth, and nothing on the remaining two. After strapping her to a papoose board and hooking her up to the gas, the dentist came in and proceeded to completely traumatize my little girl. (She was only 4 at the time.) First they said I'd have to wait outside, to which I completely refused. Then they said I couldn't be near her to comfort her, I had to stay at the back of the room. After that, she naturally started to get upset, and when they started the procedure she started squirming and trying to move her head. Next thing I know, the dentist (supposedly this well-respected pediatric specialist) abruptly went from calm and soothing to commanding and scary - he got right in my daughter's line of sight and yelled, "STOP MOVING! You will have to hold still or this is going to HURT YOU!" I freaked out and nearly shouldered the assistant out of the way to get to my daughter, who immediately began to scream around the mouth guard. Ignoring the dentist, I put my hands on her temples and began to gently stroke and talk quietly into her ear, reassuring her and keeping myself from snatching the nearest heavy instrument to smack the dentist with. He made this disgusted sound because I was there but was able to finish quickly. Then he threw down his instrument, ripped his mask off and tossed it down, and said I'd have to schedule a hospital visit for the remaining three teeth, he wouldn't touch her unless she was under general anesthesia.

O. M. G.

The nurse thanked me repeatedly for helping hold my DD still, but never apologized for the dentist. She must have been used to that kind of behavior. I took my DD to a different dentist for a follow-up and was told that only one more cap would be needed, which they could do right there with no papoose board, and the other two spots on her teeth were way too small to worry about. But the first dentist was going to yank all those teeth!

She was obviously terrified before the next procedure but the staff was amazing. They sang to her, danced toys above her eyes, told jokes and let me stay right there to hold her hand. It helped that she wasn't strapped down either.

Just about a month ago, one of those "spots" was discovered to have eroded enough to require another cap. This was yet another dentist, but they were as amazing as the 2nd. No restraint, only a little gas, and the dentist made silly noises and told stories to her about her "princess" tooth he was giving her.

Personally, I am terrified of dentists due to a very traumatic procedure done when I was 18. I have to say, though, I am glad my daughter seems to have been reassured after that first terrifying event. She did cry when they tried to clean her teeth last time, but eventually relaxed and let them do it for her.

Both of my boys have perfect teeth (well, in comparison). No fillings, anyway. My son's got a few issues not related to decay and will eventually need braces but he's great at the dentist. Way better than me!! I got my first two fillings ever last year and I was a trembling, retching nervous wreck before the procedure!


After a similar experience with my son--the freaking out while "sedated" for dental treatment--I insisted that any more dental treatments he gets will be done under general anesthesia.  Check with your medical insurance--there may be a clause in which the anesthesia is covered (ours was due to our son's disability-autism; and it is also covered for kids under a certain age) if you end up deciding to go that route.  Our biggest issue was finding a dentist that we could afford (read, does amalgams, since insurance will cover those 80% and composites 0%--not even 80% of the amalgam price and we pay the difference x 8 teeth).  We took him to the local university--they used silver caps on his teeth.  He went in and an hour later was out, a bit woozy, but aware and eating a popsicle and once he could walk on his own, we could leave.  If you are in Washington, the University of Washington school of dentistry and Seattle Children's has a program for "low income"-read: under $8000 per month income--to cover any procedure at 100% after what your insurance covers.  You could check your local area for a similar financial need program, if you qualify.  Had there not been that program, I discovered that we had been looking at over $12,000 out of pocket. 
 

 

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#35 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 07:22 PM
 
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Oh man, I'm so glad to see I'm not the only one in this situation! My seven-year-old twins have perfect teeth with no problems ever, but I took my five-year-old to the dentist today and found out he has four cavities. I have periodically gotten cavities since I was a child. Even now as an adult following a TF diet and always being compliment by the dentist on how very clean my teeth are, I still have had a cavity in recent years. My DH, on the other hand, is the only one in our family who eats junk food and drinks soda every day and has never had one cavity. Clearly my poor DS is taking after me. I mentioned something on facebook about it obviously being at least partially genetic, and a dental hygienist friend of mine replied that that was wrong, and that it has to do only with how you care for your teeth and whether or not you eat junk. Well excuse me, but my son's teeth are well cared for, and he eats almost NO junk ever! I was pretty upset at the fact that she was implying that it's my fault for not caring for his teeth properly. Ugh! Anyway, I'm going to look into some of the advice that I've read in this thread--maybe go for a second opinion, especially if I can find a more holistic dentist in the area. Thanks!


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#36 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 08:42 PM
 
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http://www.curetoothdecay.com/baby_bottle_tooth_decay.htm

 

Buy the book.


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#37 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 09:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzybaby9 View Post

http://www.curetoothdecay.com/baby_bottle_tooth_decay.htm

 

Buy the book.



okay, i just have to chime in here. that website is all about buying the book and the author uses an atrocious example of why the bacteria in our mouths aren't capable of causing cavities by comparing it to meat being unrefrigerated or sugar being unrefrigerated and how the meat rots (due to bacteria) and the sugar doesn't.

 

that sort of comparison is so scientifically invalid that it boggles my mind. controls? variables? it's not even inoculated with the bacteria that he is supposedly talking about!

 

if you use pubmed or google schoolar you can see that there are a huge number of results for studies that do study the bacteria in very specific conditions to try to increase understanding about the process.

 

i would highly recommend not buying the book but instead pursuing treatment along with dietary changes. good luck!

 

 

 


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#38 of 52 Old 04-13-2011, 09:08 PM
 
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okay, i just have to chime in here. that website is all about buying the book and the author uses an atrocious example of why the bacteria in our mouths aren't capable of causing cavities by comparing it to meat being unrefrigerated or sugar being unrefrigerated and how the meat rots (due to bacteria) and the sugar doesn't.

 

that sort of comparison is so scientifically invalid that it boggles my mind. controls? variables? it's not even inoculated with the bacteria that he is supposedly talking about!

 

if you use pubmed or google schoolar you can see that there are a huge number of results for studies that do study the bacteria in very specific conditions to try to increase understanding about the process.

 

i would highly recommend not buying the book but instead pursuing treatment along with dietary changes. good luck!

 

 

 


You've visited the website, but haven't read the book. Am I right?

 

"Pursuing treatment along with dietary changes"- of course. The book outlines many dietary changes. That's why I recommended it.

 


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#39 of 52 Old 04-14-2011, 06:32 AM
 
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Oops.


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#40 of 52 Old 04-14-2011, 07:58 AM
 
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Your DD is 5?  My 5 year old has had numerous fillings and my 8 year old has had even more.  My 5 year old was 3 before I could talk my regular dentist into seeing her.  My kids are more cooperative than most adults so YMMV but they have had all their fillings while awake.  My son was put under GA at 31 months for 4 extractions that we opted for rather than caps (front teeth).  We are now dealing with some side effects from him not having teeth for 5 years.  He was awake for his last extraction.  They have had novicane (or whatever) for back teeth and none for front teeth.  My little girl saw a pediatric dentist at age 2 for fillings in her 4 front teeth.  She sat on my lap and calmly held her mouth open for 45 minutes while they placed "strip crowns."  I took her to my dentist when the strip crowns failed (all of them).  

 

So, we have awful teeth.  I don't have any advice there.  I trust my dentist.  I frequently take my kids in when I see spots and he says they're nothing to worry about yet.  Anyway, when we need lots of fillings, we schedule slightly longer appointments every week until they're done.  We might go weekly for a month.  *shrug*  My kids are used to it since we have to go through it every 6 months.


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#41 of 52 Old 04-14-2011, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had a nice reply thanking everyone and sharing more thoughts, but then my Internet connection died and I lost the post. Sigh. So consider yourself appreciated, since I don't think I have the brain to go back and try to redo it :)

 

DD went to the holistic dentist today, and got the worst cavity filled. Unfortunately the rot may have gone down to the root. He thinks it might be ok but there's a chance. Kicking myself that I didn't deal with this months ago.

 

She had novocaine and she did really good. DH and I were both in the exam room with her the whole time, and DH even held her hands. (Since I don't see that well, some of the traditional "mommy" jobs fall to him).

 

The dentist didn't seem to feel that all the cavities needed to be filled, at least not now. Unfortunately I'm not clear on how many more he intends to do, but it sounds like 3 or 4 more.

 

We asked his opinion on flouride, and he said that while he prefers to avoid chemicals and toxins, that "the science is in" on flouride and that topical applications have been shown to provide a benefit. He's against flouride rinses and "vitamins" as well as flouridated water, but he recommends flouride toothpaste. I don't know any more about it than I did yesterday but I do trust his opinion and I know he's not just spouting the accepted opinion but had actually done the research. So DH and I are going to switch to a flouride toothpaste for all of us. Not that we expect miracles or anything. DH and I grew up on flouride toothpaste and we still had tons of cavities anyway.

 

So that's pretty much it. We're still grain- and sugar-free but I am thinking since the bacteria are already there, we're looking at a future with a lot of dentist visits.

 

Oh, and thank you to everyone for not kicking me while I was down. I told exactly 3 people IRL about the cavities, the responses were:

 

  • "Don't you brush her teeth?"
  • "You DO brush her teeth, don't you?"
  • "And that's why you should use flouride."

 

So I'm batting 0 for 3 in the "supportive people IRL" camp. I'm not even going to tell my mother.


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#42 of 52 Old 04-14-2011, 07:42 PM
 
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You've visited the website, but haven't read the book. Am I right?

 

"Pursuing treatment along with dietary changes"- of course. The book outlines many dietary changes. That's why I recommended it.

 


sorry, there's no way i was going to give my money to someone that was suggesting something so obviously inaccurate.

 

i mean, if you think that something else (other than our modern theory of bacterial growth producing acid) is going on, that's fine, but if you're going to try to use a "scientific" example, then make sure it's scientific. there are bacteria that grow in pretty much every possible condition that you can find on the planet. there are bacteria living in hydrothermic vents that are capable of synthesizing what they need to survive from minerals that would be toxic to many other organisms. there is absolutely no reason to make any sort of connection between meat rotting at room temperature and sugar staying the same, to what happens in your mouth.

 

if this is the sort of example that is promoted, well, then i would be distrustful of other examples and conclusions being drawn by the author.

 

besides, i found a wealth of dietary changes here on MDC in the TF forum and on various blogs for free. there's no need to give your money to someone for the same material. there's even a thread here on mothering that's all about healing cavities.

 


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#43 of 52 Old 04-14-2011, 07:47 PM
 
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missed your last post!

 

i just wanted to say yay for a first visit that went at least moderately well and a care provider that you trust. my amazing dentist also had us do a fluoride application, but only in his office. he also promoted mineral paste (MI Paste is the brand) that has calcium and phosphate in a specific ratio that is supposed to help remineralize your teeth.

 

so, that's another provider that is generally crunchy that also supported topical fluoride. (no pills or washes or anything though).

 

positive thoughts for strong teeth!


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#44 of 52 Old 04-15-2011, 05:25 AM
 
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I wanted to add that I like alot of the dietary changes recommended in the cure tooth decay book but not enough to get others to read through the lies. I know first hand as he took some of my info unknowingly to me that turned out to be totally wrong and made it public for others to read as how to get better teeth. Now it could hurt others.


And back original topic, that news is great Loahaire about your dd. I am anti fluoride, but i must confess that I had tooth issues with a tooth near my old root canal and my dentist put a fluoride paste directly on it and the tooth has never done better. What can I say, I would totally do it again. I can now eat cold food as before I couldn't. And it was just a painful tooth all the time. Now it isn't. So it taught me a lesson on immediate tooth help.
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#45 of 52 Old 04-15-2011, 12:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingSerenity View Post

I have a 5-year old who was found to have "4 cavities" and the dentist referred her to a pediatric dentist to do one tooth as a stainless steel cap. This was the tooth that was almost completely eroded. It couldn't be saved, but I could only see a small erosion on one of the other teeth, and nothing on the remaining two. After strapping her to a papoose board and hooking her up to the gas, the dentist came in and proceeded to completely traumatize my little girl. (She was only 4 at the time.) First they said I'd have to wait outside, to which I completely refused. Then they said I couldn't be near her to comfort her, I had to stay at the back of the room. After that, she naturally started to get upset, and when they started the procedure she started squirming and trying to move her head. Next thing I know, the dentist (supposedly this well-respected pediatric specialist) abruptly went from calm and soothing to commanding and scary - he got right in my daughter's line of sight and yelled, "STOP MOVING! You will have to hold still or this is going to HURT YOU!" I freaked out and nearly shouldered the assistant out of the way to get to my daughter, who immediately began to scream around the mouth guard. Ignoring the dentist, I put my hands on her temples and began to gently stroke and talk quietly into her ear, reassuring her and keeping myself from snatching the nearest heavy instrument to smack the dentist with. He made this disgusted sound because I was there but was able to finish quickly. Then he threw down his instrument, ripped his mask off and tossed it down, and said I'd have to schedule a hospital visit for the remaining three teeth, he wouldn't touch her unless she was under general anesthesia.

O. M. G.

The nurse thanked me repeatedly for helping hold my DD still, but never apologized for the dentist. She must have been used to that kind of behavior. I took my DD to a different dentist for a follow-up and was told that only one more cap would be needed, which they could do right there with no papoose board, and the other two spots on her teeth were way too small to worry about. But the first dentist was going to yank all those teeth!

She was obviously terrified before the next procedure but the staff was amazing. They sang to her, danced toys above her eyes, told jokes and let me stay right there to hold her hand. It helped that she wasn't strapped down either.

Just about a month ago, one of those "spots" was discovered to have eroded enough to require another cap. This was yet another dentist, but they were as amazing as the 2nd. No restraint, only a little gas, and the dentist made silly noises and told stories to her about her "princess" tooth he was giving her.

Personally, I am terrified of dentists due to a very traumatic procedure done when I was 18. I have to say, though, I am glad my daughter seems to have been reassured after that first terrifying event. She did cry when they tried to clean her teeth last time, but eventually relaxed and let them do it for her.

Both of my boys have perfect teeth (well, in comparison). No fillings, anyway. My son's got a few issues not related to decay and will eventually need braces but he's great at the dentist. Way better than me!! I got my first two fillings ever last year and I was a trembling, retching nervous wreck before the procedure!

 

hug2.gif

 

Stories like this really piss me off.  I am so sorry to hear.

 

The mouth is such an invasive orifice that should be treated like our lower half should be.  Urgh!  I have assisted soooo many folks that have had terrible experiences.  Suffer PTSD, all of it. 

 

A ton of DDS's don't get that. 

 

I always looked for kind eyes while interviewing for a new job.  If their eyes show kindness/love/compassion you most likely will have a good experience. 

 


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#46 of 52 Old 04-15-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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sorry, there's no way i was going to give my money to someone that was suggesting something so obviously inaccurate.

 

i mean, if you think that something else (other than our modern theory of bacterial growth producing acid) is going on, that's fine, but if you're going to try to use a "scientific" example, then make sure it's scientific. there are bacteria that grow in pretty much every possible condition that you can find on the planet. there are bacteria living in hydrothermic vents that are capable of synthesizing what they need to survive from minerals that would be toxic to many other organisms. there is absolutely no reason to make any sort of connection between meat rotting at room temperature and sugar staying the same, to what happens in your mouth.

 

if this is the sort of example that is promoted, well, then i would be distrustful of other examples and conclusions being drawn by the author.

 

besides, i found a wealth of dietary changes here on MDC in the TF forum and on various blogs for free. there's no need to give your money to someone for the same material. there's even a thread here on mothering that's all about healing cavities.

 


I don't have the time or energy to argue over the internet, sorry.

 

I will say this- the book and author are backed by the International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology (IAOMT), members of the American Dental Association (ADA), members of the California Dental Association, as well as the Biological Dental Association (BDA). The President of the Holistic Dental Association (HDA), Dr Timothy Gallagher, also backs the book and wrote the Foreword... I wasn't impressed with that website- I was quite turned off, actually. However, the book is excellent, IMO.

 

Be mindful.

 


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#47 of 52 Old 04-15-2011, 01:20 PM
 
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Please get a second opinion. This happened to me before with a dentist who really liked other people's money and scare tactics.  Not saying that is the case here, but just telling you that possibility does exist. 


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#48 of 52 Old 04-16-2011, 05:45 PM
 
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I'm glad things went well.
 

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Originally Posted by laohaire View Post

Oh, and thank you to everyone for not kicking me while I was down. I told exactly 3 people IRL about the cavities, the responses were:

 

  • "Don't you brush her teeth?"
  • "You DO brush her teeth, don't you?"
  • "And that's why you should use flouride."

 

So I'm batting 0 for 3 in the "supportive people IRL" camp. I'm not even going to tell my mother.

You mean nobody said "What are you feeding her?" That's what I hear!
 

 

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#49 of 52 Old 04-16-2011, 10:36 PM
 
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Oh my g-d.  That chart is crazy.  Thank you. My DP has a tooth (#18) which is cracked, and half of it fell out, and had (has?) an infection in it, which we're trying to scrape the money to fix.  He's also had horrible pain in his left shoulder (which is related to #18 on the first chart), and has issues with being overly (self) critical.  I read it to him and we both looked at each other and were like holy crud.  That said, not sure how to afford getting the tooth pulled. (well, more of a problem is getting a fake tooth put in after...)

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Originally Posted by Xantho View Post

So glad to hear! 

 

Go raw milk!  I drank a ton when pregnant and I maybe have a swig a day now.  I am grain free as well. 

 

I wanted to add a chart that my ol boss used to pass out to new patients.  Completely makes sense. 

 

http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/Dentalinfo/toothorganchart.htm

 

Can't remember if I posted this link either.... been chatting in 2 forums about holistic DDS's.

 

http://www.iaomt.org/



 


Caroline, partner to J, post partum doula, kitchen manager, aspiring midwife, soon to be nursing student, mama to my furbaby, someday a mama to not so furry munchkins, G-d willing
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#50 of 52 Old 04-17-2011, 06:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magelet View Post


Oh my g-d.  That chart is crazy.  Thank you. My DP has a tooth (#18) which is cracked, and half of it fell out, and had (has?) an infection in it, which we're trying to scrape the money to fix.  He's also had horrible pain in his left shoulder (which is related to #18 on the first chart), and has issues with being overly (self) critical.  I read it to him and we both looked at each other and were like holy crud.  That said, not sure how to afford getting the tooth pulled. (well, more of a problem is getting a fake tooth put in after...)



 


I absolutely dig that chart.  It is amazing. 

 

Dental schools are a less expensive option.  You would be treated by a student but would have their instructor monitoring. 

 


'09   
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#51 of 52 Old 04-17-2011, 05:39 PM
 
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I know, but the only dental school around here is a long ways away, and it is really hard to get seen, can take a long time (like a few days), but he needs to go there anyways.


Caroline, partner to J, post partum doula, kitchen manager, aspiring midwife, soon to be nursing student, mama to my furbaby, someday a mama to not so furry munchkins, G-d willing
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#52 of 52 Old 04-27-2011, 09:32 PM
 
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I really think you should get another opinion.  There is a chain office in our town that is well known for claiming kids have cavities when they don't.  They have many bad reviews online.  You can google the dentist and clinic and see if anyone has said anything about this dentist if you are on the fence about trusting him.  My dd is actually going in for IV sedation tomorrow so she can have her cavities fixed, she has four on her teeth with weak enamel.  I was very reluctant and we tried to go the normal way, but she is just too nervous even with the nitrous oxide.  It is also more cavities than they can do in one sitting so even if she had done well the first time there would have been no guarantee after that (and I really think it would have gone badly) so the way we are going now is really the best option for her.  We had three opinions from dentists before we went with one and that was a good thing for us because the second dentist suggested things that really aren't supposed to be done to teeth that are just growing in.  Dentists should be honest, but there are a lot who aren't.  I think they may have different ethical standards than actual doctors.

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