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#121 of 143 Old 08-26-2002, 03:14 PM
 
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Carmen, their opinion is that while pg, a woman should NOT receive the intense flouride treatment during a cleaning regardless.

We are on well water and our dentist doesn't think any of us need supplements b/c we get flouride from daycare, work, school, etc.

BUT...my friends' dentists push fluoride at every opp'y.
It's tough to know.
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#122 of 143 Old 08-26-2002, 04:02 PM
 
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BusyMommy-

Are you get flouride supplements at these places from someone? Or is it in the water and that is what she is referring to?

If it is the later, then what about communities where there is no flouride in the water like here where I live?

Do children not need flouride at all for their teeth?
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#123 of 143 Old 08-28-2002, 06:57 PM
 
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Research from India shows that fluoride
can make people sick; but improved diet and complete fluoride withdrawal can relieve symptoms, according to the May-June, 2002, "Molecular and Cellular
Biochemistry."(a)

Fluoride's harmful health effects, except to teeth, are rarely studied in the U.S. and, in fact, are often discouraged(b). Also never studied, incredibly, are the most widely-used artificial fluoride chemicals Americans drink daily(c) -- silicofluorides, derived from fertilizers, purposely added to water supplies, at about 1 milligram fluoride per quart of water, in an attempt to reduce tooth decay.

In areas of India, where food and water are naturally fluoride-abundant,severe fluoride toxicity is common and manifests as debilitating and disfiguring diseases(d). Well-known is that fluoride excess irreversibly cripples bones and crumbles teeth (fluorosis).

Lesser-known are early fluorosis warning signs, or soft tissue toxicity, whose manifestations and resulting clinical complaints are reversible with a diet adequate in calcium, vitamins C, E, other antioxidants and withdrawal of all fluoride sources (the intervention), report researchers Madhu Bhatnager
and Professor (Dr.) A.K. Susheela, the CEO and Director of India's Fluorosis Research and Rural Development Foundation.

Susheela and Bhatnager examined ten patients (6 males, 4 females; ages ranging from 8-60 years) having clinical symptoms suggestive of fluoride poisoning. Blood, urine and drinking water samples were collected. Water samples contained 0.l4, 0.38, 0.90, l.06, 2.00, 1.74, 3.00, 5.80, 26.07 and 29.00 milligrams fluoride per liter (approximately a quart). Some patients
with fluorosis consumed safe water but ingested fluoride through food and/or other fluoride sources.

After a year on the intervention, serum and urine fluoride levels dropped significantly with patients' complete relief from joint pain and rigidity, polyuria (frequent urination), polydipsia (constant thirst), muscle weakness, and gastrointestinal complaints, some alleviated after only 10-15 days.

Dr. Susheela researches fluoride extensively (http://education.vsnl.com/fluorosis/publication.html). In this study, Susheela and Bhatnager write: "It is now an established fact that fluoride ingestion over a period of time can affect the structure and function of cells, tissues, organs and systems resulting in a variety of clinical manifestations. (For example

1) aches and pain in the joints, i.e. neck, back, hip, shoulder and knee without visible signs of fluid accumulation

2) non-ulcer dyspepsia such as nausea, vomiting, pain in the stomach, bloated feeling or gas formation in the stomach, constipation followed by diarrhea

3) polyuria (frequent urination) and polydipsia (excessive thirst)

4) muscle weakness, fatigue, anemia with low hemoglobin level

5) complaints of repeated abortions/still birth

6) complaints of male infertility with abnormality in sperm morphology, oligospermia (spermatozoa deficiency in the semen), azoospermia (spermatozoa absence in the semen) and low testosterone levels."

Susheela and Bhatnager recommend physicians consider fluoride toxicity for the above-listed patient complaints and/or any loss of shine or discoloration in the patient's front row of teeth, which may be due to dental fluorosis.

If interested, please read the rest of the article with references here:

http://www.orgsites.com/ny/nyscof/_pgg1.php3

The New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation (NYSCOF) created this news release, retains the copyright and grants permission for its posting. Also NYSCOF encourages the passing on of this information anywhere for the purposes of educating others. No permission is required.
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#124 of 143 Old 08-28-2002, 11:09 PM
 
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We don't allow fluoride treatments at the dentist. No mouth rinses with fluoride either, and we use bottled water. The kids started school today and came home with a paper asking if we wanted them to have WEEKLY fluoride rinses. YUCK. NO thanks!
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#125 of 143 Old 10-25-2002, 09:51 AM
 
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my dd is scheduled in january for OR dental work --to fill several cavities --she is 28 months old.


i wanted something to do to slow down what is happening in her mouth and i haven't stopped night nursing --our ped dds looked into options for us and suggested carefully wiping on Gel-kam after nursing.

i looked up gel-kam and it says for ages 12 and up... should i worry --is this OK for a 28 month old??

me 71, dh 68, dd 00, dd 04
blissfully figuring out how to coexist while homeschooling and living in the woods of northern michigan
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#126 of 143 Old 11-01-2002, 02:37 PM
 
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#127 of 143 Old 11-08-2002, 12:57 AM
 
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#128 of 143 Old 11-13-2002, 02:45 PM
 
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I just couldn't quite slog thru all the dental archives. Next time I take dd to the dentist, I was thinking of refusing the fluoride treatment. I want to be able to back myself up with some info on why exactly. After reading all the old threads, I am even more confused! We do have fluoride in the water, but I believe it is less than 1 ppm, because there is a big debate going on about whether to add more to bring it up to "recommended levels." We drink filtered tap water (but not reverse osmosis), bottled juice, and various fresh, frozen, and canned food. She uses mostly non-fluoride toothpaste (Tom's), especially now that Silly Strawberry is available in a fluoride-free formula. So she's probably not getting *that* much fluoride, but I'm thinking maybe it's enough. Should I let them do the treatment, or no? Why? (Of course, I know I have to decide for myself, just looking for educated opinions)

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

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#129 of 143 Old 11-14-2002, 12:27 AM
 
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#130 of 143 Old 11-14-2002, 12:31 AM
 
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...you just don't want to waste any time slogging through archives when you could be getting your post count up....
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#131 of 143 Old 11-14-2002, 06:24 PM
 
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Dang! Busted!!

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

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#132 of 143 Old 12-03-2002, 04:15 AM
 
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hi smilemomma, long time no talk

so are you saying that the kind of flouride you'd get a perscription for and squirt in your kid's mouth twice a day could be harmful? i have absolutely beautiful teeth (every dentist i've ever been too calls over all their assistants and in-office colleagues to look, no kidding), just one cavity my whole 32 years of life (and it was in a wisdom tooth). and i had all the flouride treatments as a kid (the topical kind) plus the sealant (which i will definitely get for my kids, after 22 years or more some of it is *still* on my teeth). in any case, dd's new dentist perscribed a flouride supplement and i have been holding onto the Rx, waiting for more info (he sort of poo pooed my concerns).

argh. what to do.

sorry to make you work so hard, honey. i really appreciate your answer.
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#133 of 143 Old 12-06-2002, 10:41 PM
 
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Yes, yes, Jennifer, I remember your ds!

I'm glad that's all it is! (the hypoplasia, I mean). I'm sorry he reacted to the visit, and sorry for you that the guy was so rude to you, but it's a good outcome. Now at least you have some time to find another, nicer dentist!

Hope this helps!
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#134 of 143 Old 12-10-2002, 10:06 PM
 
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I'm curious about the flouride you get via Rx from dentist's office, too. Thanks for asking Bunny's Mama. My ds went to the dentist for the first time today @ 18 months & has enamel hypoplasia on 2 front top teeth. I'm concerned about the flouride gel.

Also, this sounds silly, but if you get city water that's been treated via reverse osmosis from the Culligan machines, does it still contain flouride?
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#135 of 143 Old 01-01-2003, 04:46 AM
 
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#136 of 143 Old 01-02-2003, 12:06 PM
 
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Thanks, Smilemomma!
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#137 of 143 Old 01-05-2003, 05:10 PM
 
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Just wondering.......
My ds is 9mo and has teeth comming in all over. Where we live I hve to carry in spring water. I was wondering if it is worth buying the bottled fluordated water for him. He is 99% breastfeed-but he loves taking sips of water out of a cup. Plus his dads family has a history of "bad teeth", so it makes me more concerned.
Thanks,
~Tamara
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#138 of 143 Old 01-06-2003, 01:31 AM
 
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Ragdoll, the spring water may also be fluoridated; call the company and ask!

There is also a thread devoted to fluoride (and another devoted to preventing cavities) in the dental archives.

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#139 of 143 Old 01-08-2003, 06:18 PM
 
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Thanks for responding. Our spring water is literally out of the earth herself. We bottle it as it comes out.
I'll check out the other thread.
Thanks again,
Tamara
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#140 of 143 Old 01-08-2003, 09:10 PM
 
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Ragdoll, that's where natural fluoridation comes from! It is absorbed from the rock. Your spring water may still contain fluoride, it is present naturally (in sometimes surprisingly high amounts, some communities actually *reduce* the fluoride in their water) in water. You are actually a little more likely to have a higher-than-recommended dose if your water is not processed at all. Out West especially.

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#141 of 143 Old 06-29-2004, 02:59 AM
 
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Hello everyone,

I am browsing thru this thread because I am suddenly overtaken with guilt about my lack of care for my 11mo dd's teeth... I brush a little bit but mostly she just chews on the brush. It's hard with her to get her to sit still to do any sort of personal care stuff, but now that she is also eating lots of solids along with bf, I should be way more careful!

Smilemomma, you and some others were wondering about natural sources for flouride. The reader who mentioned calc flour (the homeopathic tissue salt) was right on. Also, the tissue salt calc phos, (calcium phosphate) is also very good for supporting bone and teeth fortification and proper formation, alignment, etc. It's a great thing to take during teething.

The absolute best source of natural flourine that I've read about (I am a natural health store buyer so I read a lot about these subjects) is green tea! Even with a small baby, you can give them some decaffeinated, weak green tea in a sippy cup. (The japanese sencha tends to have less caffeine and a milder taste, than the Chinese or gunpowder variety). I think that some other herbal beverages contain flourine as well. Interestingly, green tea is also very antibacterial, helps with mouth odor (not that that's an issue in most babies though!), and is just overall very healthy. One of the best natural toothpastes (that periodontists often even prescribe their patients who shop at our store) uses green tea as a main ingredient.

Black tea has flourine too but it has tannins that are not good for the teeth, causing stains etc, and it's much higher in caffeine. I imagine white tea also would be good, as it has many properties of green but a much lighter and more fruity/floral taste, and less caffeine even than green. And more antioxidants!

Also regarding the use of Vitamin C, Smilemomma said that "vitamin c is ascorbic acid". Not all vitamin C is in that form, and not all forms of C are so corrosive to tooth enamel. Calcium ascorbate (ester-c) and ascorbyl palmitate (c-ester... yes, they are different) are much gentler on the teeth as well as tummy, and are absorbed much better, although the first one is much better for kids. That is the "buffered" form of c, and a lot of research shows that mineral ascorbates are highly absorbable and beneficial. You can get kid's "Emergen-C" packets (flavored naturally with strawberry powder and containing other vitamins in good forms, it makes a fizzy drink!) in most health food stores.

Also thyme essential oil is one of the most antibacterial. It is strong though and should be highly dilute. Interestingly, even good old lavender is antibacterial. Oregano oil works too but is too strong for kids under 3, in general.

I choose not to use flouride on my dd simply because I had such bad experiences as a child getting flouridated half to death by overzealous dentists... pills, varnishes, rinses, water, toothpaste...! Fortunately I'm still alive and not dead of a flouride-induced coma but I can definitely see the havoc it's wreaked on my teeth, which are pitted with ugly white and yellow spots. I have only had one cavity in my life, and it was under a loose brace bracket, but I probably inherited my dad's teeth... he never goes to dentists, grew up in post-WW2 germany where no one had any flouride anything, and his teeth are totally perfect and cavity free. Also my dh is from Africa and genetically, they seem to be prone to excellent teeth over there... he never had any cavities and didn't even use toothpaste or toothbrushes as a kid, they just chewed on special twigs and rinsed their mouth with water! When I was over there I saw the most beautiful and healthy teeth in the world. I am not sure why that is, but I am sure that it's not due to flouride, because they don't use any. I saw this over widespread areas. Generally when their teeth got bad it was due to illness or malnutrition. So overall I am not as worried about my dd's teeth as I could be, since she seems to have good genetics in that regard, although nothing is certain.

There are a lot of interesting things to consider as well about the whole dental thing. Has anyone here read Weston Price's research about dental health in third world countries and among poor Europeans? It's fascinating and spans over several generations. Most indigenous people had excellent teeth alignment and strength, and few cavities, until they started eating processed foods like refined sugars and grains, canned foods, etc. For example, the best teeth of all that he observed were in a small Swiss region where the kids drank fresh spring water and ate mostly whole grain, fermented breads and fresh cheese and butter. The second generation ate a lot of imported, processed foods. Their teeth started decaying!

Regarding flouride in general, I agree with smilemomma's ideas overall and think her point of view is a responsible and conservative one. I don't think flouride is the only nutrient (actually, it's not technically a major bodily nutrient, despite how it's presented) that is important in tooth and bone (after all tooth is just an extension of bone) health, and it's so hard to get "safe" flouride. If you read the warnings on most toothpastes, they say "if more than amount needed for brushing is swallowed, contact poison control center immediately!" Do I want to brush my child's teeth with poison? No, but I can understand, if she really were getting tons of cavities, I would consider it... I just see it as an option and possibly a more unsafe one than some others out there. Also I agree that flouride can have safe and unsafe forms. The form currently used is not very compatible with the human body, and is more toxic than perhaps one that's naturally occuring in food.

There are some foods that contain flourine but I don't remember them! Will keep you posted if I find out. In general it's present, I think, mostly in green type things, I remembered some green vegetables were rich in it.

BD
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#142 of 143 Old 06-29-2004, 03:10 AM
 
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ak, I just read the post describing flouride poisoning symptoms, and I have almost all of them! (after I was joking about it...)

<<1) aches and pain in the joints, i.e. neck, back, hip, shoulder and knee without visible signs of fluid accumulation

2) non-ulcer dyspepsia such as nausea, vomiting, pain in the stomach, bloated feeling or gas formation in the stomach, constipation followed by diarrhea

3) polyuria (frequent urination) and polydipsia (excessive thirst)

4) muscle weakness, fatigue, anemia with low hemoglobin level>>

well, I don't have all now, but I had fibromyalgia on and off for years and have frequent issues with neuralgias, muscle aches, random nauseous spells, and especially the 3rd thing on this list, which is the butt of many family jokes and annoyance from my dh, who can't understand how I can go through so much water and have it just run right through me, much to the inconveinece of road trips, subway rides etc... lol... I just wrote it all off as fibromyalgia issues, but maybe my hypercalcified teeth are only the tip of the ice berg??

Maybe I am being a hypochondriac, but now I am wondering if I should get a hair analysis or something! I really did get HUGE amounts of flouride as a kid and later on, dentists admitted that they goofed with me and gave me too much, which is why my teeth are all funky and stained now.

BD
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#143 of 143 Old 07-19-2004, 08:46 PM
 
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