Hospitalization/General Anesthesia - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 195 Old 06-05-2002, 09:12 AM
 
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At this point we are using some remedies to try and rid her system of the CRAP they use. Also one concern is the stainless crown And the nickel content. The dentist OF COURSE said its completly safe YA right and also told me the mercury fillings were safe and had to fight with him NOT to use it. I just got done sending him a package full of info on the dangers of them filling with silver fillings (MERCURY). I am sorry if i sound hostile I am just angry, sad, scared and mad the medical community doesnt recognize the dangers of the stuff they use for our kids. And i have watched her change and all the dentis could say is OH i am sorry i have NEVER seen this before i dont know what to say. So i am gonna give it alittle time with the homeopathy and then move on to other treatment. I can say this i dont care if all her teeth fall out i will NEVER do it again I would have rather had her toothless.
thanks for letting me vent
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#92 of 195 Old 06-05-2002, 12:10 PM
 
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Have you talked to the anesthesiologist? Maybe he/she would be more knowledgeable about this type of reaction. I tried doing some web searches last night to see if there is anything out there related to this but I couldn't find anything at all. However, I did find I lot of articles about side effects and reactions (none of them neurological, though) at a website for a anesthesiology journal, so maybe the anesthesiologist would have more resources.
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#93 of 195 Old 06-05-2002, 09:30 PM
 
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What kind of anesthetic did they use on you daughter? Was it through an IV? My dd is going in on friday and they are using oral sedation for four fillings and I am so worried about it. It is interesting what you said about your instinct and not following it. I feel the same way, my instincts are telling me not to, but I can't help but feel that her teeth are part of her overall health, and I want them to be healthy and start with a clean slate. I am torn. I took Smilemomma's advice and got some Young Living's Peace and Calming and some Roman chamomile oil so I hope that eases some of my dd's anxieties. I am going to use some too as well as some rescue remedy for the both of us. Pray for us this friday. Thank you.
And Chevy, I will be praying for daughter as well.
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#94 of 195 Old 06-06-2002, 09:22 AM
 
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She was sedated by IV. We tried to prepare her but she is so young i am not sure she understood. We are alwasy telling her how pretty her teeth look and she will smile and stick her tounge out at me. Again I do also feel that it was important for her overall health but its hard to see your child act like this after a procedure. I must add that Chaela was always a HIGH need child very hard to please and nursed every 20 min the first 6 mo of life and still doesnt eat a whole lot of solids she is very needed on me still today at almost 18 mo where as my other kids at this age were like "leave me alone mom"

She may just be mad but its been so long already i figured she be over it by now.

MAMAINHARMONY I will pray for your sweet on I am sure she will be fine. I think chaela is a rare occurance. But i do believe in mommies instict and i will be sure to follow it more closly but sometimes its hard to decide the differ between it and plain fear.
I wish you the best please update me.
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#95 of 195 Old 06-06-2002, 11:51 AM
 
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It is interesting that you said she is high-needs to start with; my son who had IV anesthesia also didn't react very well to it. He wasn't acting exactly like your daughter, but he is older, 4.5. I wonder if they are simply very sensitive to the stress and trauma of it all, due to being high needs/spirited to start with. I have heard other reports, from friends with high-needs/spirited children, that their children had unexpected reactions to being anesthisized.

My son is still showing some effects of his procedure (it's been a couple months); the most obvious being his reaction when he skins his knee or breaks the skin in any way. He absolutely will not let us LOOK at it even (seriously, if we even glance his way, he starts screaming!) and insists he is NOT hurt. He seems to be afraid that we will take him to a doctor. He also talks about "tooth pullers" a lot (he had extractions) which just gives me chills. We have a pair of scissor-type tweezers that I think I'm going to replace because he is absolutely convinced that they are "tooth-pullers." I have no idea if that is what real tooth-pullers look like and I've been afraid to find out.

Anyway, I agree with smilemomma about re-connecting with her as much as she will allow. When my son gets hurt & freaks out the way he does, the only thing that will eventually calm him is to quietly talk about how he doesn't have to do anything he doesn't want to and that no one will touch him if he says no. When she's not terribly upset you can talk to her about how it's okay for her to be mad and angry about what happened. I know she's very young but she can probably comprehend a least a little.
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#96 of 195 Old 06-12-2002, 04:07 PM
 
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JMO, but I wouldn't take the risk just for something cosmetic. It's far better to teach our children to love ourselves the way we are and to be accepting of other's differences too. I wouldn't do it.
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#97 of 195 Old 06-15-2002, 12:19 AM
 
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Hi,

I've been reading these forums for a few months, but just registered so I could ask this question. I searched through the dental archives but didn't see this particular question addressed directly; please forgive me if I missed it!

A few weeks ago, I noticed brown staining on my toddler's molars. Since my older son had a regular scheduled appointment coming up, I brought both of them in. To my huge shock and dismay, we discovered that my younger son has four cavities -- one on the back of a chipped front incisor, one on a molar chewing surface, and two on the cheek sides of his bottom molars, where I had noticed the staining. He also has an area of weak enamel on another molar that the dentist would like to fill preventatively. The dentist is calling this defective enamel.

The dentist originally wanted to do the work in the hospital under general anesthesia, but when I mentioned that we don't have dental insurance and have a huge deductible for regular health insurance, he suggested that it would be cheaper to do it in his office, bringing in an anesthesiologist to perform i.v. sedation. Both the dentist and our pediatrician are telling me that the risks of general anesthesis and iv sedation are comparable. The cost difference is about $500, certainly a good chunk, but not enough to me to justify ANY increased risk.

This is a large pediatric dental practice; they bring in this anesthesiologist twice a month, and they're about five minutes away from the hospital. Are there any questions I need to be
asking? If cost were no consideration, what would you do?

I'm also assuming that we actually NEED to do something or risk even bigger problems lster; the dentist is planning to do a full exam and x-rays while my son is under, so there's always the possibility that he'll find more decay when he's not trying to get a screaming toddler to open his mouth and cooperate! My husband wants to try to delay treatment if possible, but I know that the cavity on the back of the chipped tooth is already fairly large, so I don't think we can arrest the progress. He's sooooo little, and he's going to need these baby teeth for so much longer...

Sorry this message is rambly. I'm really just freaking out and wanting to know the safest treatment option for my baby.

Amy
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#98 of 195 Old 06-16-2002, 01:22 AM
 
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Amy, breathe, breathe! I can see that you have thought this out very thoroughly, and clearly you are a loving, well-researched mama who wants the best for her baby. I agree totally that the work needs to be done, and I admire your strength in pursuing good health for your baby, even at discomfort for yourself. That is truly mother love.

Blessings to you, Amy, and welcome to the boards! It's a wonderful place.

Best of everything to you and your little one, and please come back and let us know how it went. So many moms are looking down this same path with you, join hands -- you have a sisterhood of strength here.
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#99 of 195 Old 06-16-2002, 03:35 PM
 
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Thank you so much for your reply, Smilemomma! You really targeted the kinds of questions I have about the sedation and its safety; unfortunately, when I do a web search on the topic, I end up with all sorts of technical articles with information on mortality and morbidity that leave me absolutely hyperventilating. It makes me feel a lot better to realize that the setup they have in the office is the best possible design.

I'm going to ask for a phone consultation with the anesthesiologist, and I'll prepare a list of questions, then I want to get this scheduled as quickly as possible. I was reading through the dental archives and you have provided SO MUCH information on decay, its causes, and prevention; I hope that once we get everything fixed, I can apply all of it so we're never in this situation again.

It is clear from the archives that you devote an extraordinary amount of time and energy to these boards, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate this your efforts and this wonderful resource! My computer time is usually limited to reading because I am usually nursing while online and I'm the world's slowest one-handed typist, but I'll definitely let you know how everything turns out. Thanks again!

Amy
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#100 of 195 Old 06-18-2002, 02:54 AM
 
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I have a similar situation with my son who's 30 months. I got a second opinion first. We've decided to take him for check-ups every few months, watch very carefully and hopefully hold off until he's able to cooperate and fully understand what's happening. The only thing we are doing is brushing religiously (we weren't before) but we are doing this without flouride. I would get a clear answer on if you can take some steps (ie. brushing more) and keep a very close eye on the teeth. I'm not doing anything that requires sedation for something "preventative". If it beomes timely I will. I may be off target re your question but I can relate.

Good Luck.
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#101 of 195 Old 06-19-2002, 04:17 PM
 
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My 20month ds has decay on two front teeth
(one of which hasn't even come in all the way)
and 4 cavities on molars. The dentist wants
to try to cap the front and fill the molars. Is this
a good idea? Also he suggested ga, or we
could try morphine ( a shot in the gums) Ds
also screamed in terror when dr. examined his
mouth. Can I ask what anyone else would
do in this situation?
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#102 of 195 Old 06-26-2002, 02:51 AM
 
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chevy974,

How is your little one?
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#103 of 195 Old 06-26-2002, 01:14 PM
 
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Thanks for asking she is about the same no worse. the temper tantrums and the sitting in the corner is still there and she does still flap of the hands. I think this is something we are just gonna have to learn to deal with. she will still just sit with head down like she is sad. It breaks my heart.
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#104 of 195 Old 06-26-2002, 02:12 PM
 
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I can think of no words that are appropriate... My heart aches just to think of it. Have you posted any of this to the Health & Healing or Parenting Issues Forums? It sounds so much like symptoms in the Autistic spectrum. I remember reading posts from Stacie about her dealing with it.
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#105 of 195 Old 06-26-2002, 08:05 PM
 
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We are using homeopathy whcih i think has helped her some. YOu know what the worst of it all is My instinct told ME NOT TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!! and i went against that I thought maybe i was just being over anxious I tend to be paranoid about medical issues.
So now on top of a already difficult child she is kinda a high need kid now this. ARGGGGGHHHHHH
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#106 of 195 Old 06-28-2002, 02:58 AM
 
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*sigh*. A few months ago I noticed a brown spot on my toddler's teeth that I couldn't brush away (my first thought was that it was just a little bit of food that was stuck, but no such luck). We've brushed her teeth every night since before her first birthday, but we didn't start using toothpaste until recently -- she doesn't understand how to rinse and spit, and since I have fluorosis on my own teeth, I'm paranoid about it. We nurse at night, of course.

We finally saw the pediatric dentist today. We had to see a regular dentist first and get a referral; I liked the regular dentist a lot (when I talked about how she starts out the night in her own bed, but wakes up at some point and comes in with me and dh, the dentist said, "sounds like my kid") but I liked the pediatric dentist rather less. Still, it was a non-traumatic appointment for dd. The dentist was low-key and friendly and made her laugh, and she opened her mouth for him and didn't mind the funny foam thing he used to keep her mouth open while he looked at her teeth.

He says she has three or four cavities, including the one I spotted, all in her front teeth. And, we have two options for treatment:

1. Drill and fill, no anaesthesia. He said that novacaine injection is traumatic enough for a child this age that she'd probably throw a fit and not let him work on her teeth. He said that he probably would not be able to get ALL the decay but that he'd be able to get enough of it to stop it from getting worse. He would then fill the cavities with fluoride fillings -- I've been reading through the archives for the last two hours, and I can't find ANYTHING about fluoride amalgam. Does anyone have any idea what he was talking about here?

2. General anaesthesia. If he put her under completely, he would also be able to do x-rays, and to seal all her teeth. She has four molars in right now. We wouldn't be able to schedule this until September at the earliest, so she might even have her two-year molars by then.

I have to say, I am totally freaked out by both options. I have actually had a cavity drilled without novacaine, but it was a teeny-tiny cavity and I really felt no pain at all. Dh, on the other hand, had a cavity drilled WITH novacaine and insists from this experience that "novacaine doesn't do anything," as he felt an awful lot of pain anyway. Since I've also had a tooth drilled with novacaine -- as well as a whole bunch of routine extractions done as a kid with novacaine (they were supposed to help my teeth come in straighter) -- I told dh that they must just not have given him enough.

But at any rate, I really don't want dd to be hurt. I asked the dentist how they know when they've drilled far enough that they really have to stop because it's going to hurt the kid too much to continue, and basically it sounds like they stop when the kid shrieks in obvious agony.

I read some of Smilemama's posts where she talks about working on small kids without anaesthetic, and she says they do really well. How do you know when you're about to hit a nerve? Seriously. My dd is generally a pretty easy-going child and does NOT scream loudly unless she's really in pain, so I have no doubt that it will be clear that her hysteria is due to "time to stop drilling" and not just "okay, I've had enough of this." (Her usually "I've had enough of this" protest is to say, "all done! all done!")

On the other hand, I also really don't like the idea of putting her under GA. Reading the story from the mother whose child came out of it severely traumatized didn't make me feel any better about the idea, and I already know there are risks (like, kids can die just from the GA....though I know so few people who have gotten through life without having to go under GA at least once, it seems like if you are someone who will die from GA, you're probably doomed anyway!)

I forgot to ask about nitrous oxide and I didn't know anything about chloral hydrate until I started reading this thread. I can see the virtue of NOT numbing up a kid this young, though, because of the "chewing on their numb cheek" issue. My very first routine extraction, I was old enough to understand the instruction not to chew on my lip, but it was such a weird sensation I did it anyway. I regretted it later and didn't do it again.

Anyway. Can anyone give me some advice about this? I went through the archives but it seemed that most people were told their child would HAVE to go under GA because the work needed was so extensive, or else it wasn't presented as an option. Lots of kids were also given IV sedation -- which wasn't presented to me as an option.

I think I mentioned that if we go the GA route, it won't be done until September, so I'll have months and months to worry about it. If we go the no-anaesthesia route, he could treat her in as little as two weeks. Ughhhhh. I'm so bummed about this whole thing. I had NO cavities as a kid -- despite nursing at night as a toddler -- and only three cavities as an adult.
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#107 of 195 Old 07-01-2002, 09:29 PM
 
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Look further.

I have pretty bad teeth, and my dentist didn't believe in novocaine for "little cavities." As a result, I'm still dealing with dentist phobias. Beyond very very tiny, it hurts like hell on me, and novocaine definitely helps. Mostly, I feel nothing at all (I just had all my amalgams replaced with composites, and that's a lot of work in my mouth )

My dd (almost 3) just had one cavity on a front tooth filled, with Versed (an oral sedative, which "takes the edge off" the experience. My dd is feisty, and I get the impression it would take more edge off for your dd than for mine). She also got novocaine, and thanks to the Versed that shot hardly bothered her at all. Check my thread on the story, "how Audrey got her tooth back."

GA sounds maybe a bit big for your case, especially since she sounds cooperative. If you can think they can do the procedure in half an hour, I'd probably not go for that. I would insist on novocaine, though. Some people have more sensitive teeth than others, and you don't know till you find out (that sounds like a Yogi Berra-ism )

Do her teeth hurt her? If so, the cavities are likely pretty deep. And if not, I'd still go with novocain (but can you see that I'm a wimp?)

Does your dentist offer oral sedatives or nitrous? I feel that without the sedative, my dd's experience would definitely have been more traumatic. Hope this helps ~ good luck!
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#108 of 195 Old 07-01-2002, 09:30 PM
 
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BTW: Why, if you like the regular dentist more than the ped dentist, not stay with him/her? I've heard that even smilemomma is a regular dentist!
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#109 of 195 Old 07-01-2002, 09:46 PM
 
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My dd (almost 3) had one front tooth filled and capped, with novocaine and Versed (oral sedative). It was doable, but she definitely didn't like the experience.

For 6 teeth, including 4 in the back, I'd go GA despite all my worries about her being under. It seems like a lot of work, and a long sit. And I wouldn't really want to give a 20-month old a taste of morphine, either
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#110 of 195 Old 07-02-2002, 11:20 AM
 
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Milesmom, thanks for your feedback. After my husband and I discussed this, we decided to go for a second opinion. Another pediatric dentist examined my son today and has a somewhat different treatment plan. This dentist noted that the back of a second incisor is also decayed, and thinks the two decayed incisors that look chipped are actually the result of defective enamel. This dentist noted defective enamel on all four molars as well, but doesn't feel that the small amount of decay there requires treatment, since the defective enamel is on the cheek side of the smooth part of the molars, not on the chewing surface, and can be brushed well.

However, he definitely thinks the two incisors and a small cavity in the chewing surface of one molar need to be filled. He uses chloryl hydrate in his office, administered by himself, while the other dentist is proposing iv sedation administered by an anesthesiologist. I'm off to read through the archives for information on chloryl hydrate, and I've got a call in to my pediatrician for his opinion on the different anesthesia, but I would love any input from Smilemomma or anyone else with experience with the different methods!

OT, but as the nurse was giving me instructions on how to prepare for the procedure if we end up deciding to use this dentist, she mentioned no food or drink after midnight. I asked about nursing. Her response? He's too old to nurse anyway, I should have weaned him at one! Grrrrrr.....
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#111 of 195 Old 07-03-2002, 12:36 AM
 
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Firstly, I'm so sorry for the anxiety you are feeling. It's just awful having to decide stuff like this. My first child had her 4 front teeth removed at 18 months of age. Because she has many allergies, we were afraid to do anesthesia of either sort. Instead we used novacaine. I held her down while they worked in her mouth for the longest 9 minutes of my life and hers while I prayed out loud. With my second child, we found tooth decay at 14 months. I decided to attack the decay right off. We drilled and filled the teeth again while I held her down for 2 minutes - that's all it took! Again she has allergies, even worse than her sister. Then since 14 months of age, we pay to see the dentist every 4 weeks. Several times we have coated her teeth with fluoride, as much as I hate to do that. Again, that takes about 60 seconds and I just hold her down. Every time I have had to hold my children for a procedure, this is how it works. I sit with my knees touching the dentist's knees. I hug my child. Then I bend at my waist, placing the child's head on the dentist's lap upside down. Then I move my head out of the dentist's way but my hands still hold my child's hands. I tell the child everything that is happening and actively empathize with them. "This is scary. There's going to be a sound - it's called a drill. It will scrape the nasty bugs off your teeth. That hurts but it's almost done. Your teeth are clean! ..." Then I nurse the child as soon as possible. I hope that helps.
A couple of other thoughts:
- often a 2nd opinion can be obtained for free or for a small fee.
- does your child have allergies? especially allergies to meds?
- if you chose general, then you will be separated from your child. In most hospitals, you are separated until your child is conscious and CALM! How long would that be for a 20 month old in an unfamiliar place with a sore mouth!
- if you chose general, they will not be permitted to have anything by mouth for some period of time before the surgery. That could make for a rough night if they night nurse. (And no amount of "but breastmilk is a clear liquid, look at these studies..." would convince the MD's in Boston otherwise.)
- if you chose to have anesthesia in the dentist's office, then look up the dentist in the web. See if you can find complaints against them. I saw some scary show on TV about dentists doing anesthesia when really only anesthesiologists should do it.

Again, I'm so sorry you have to travel this road too.

Rachael
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#112 of 195 Old 07-03-2002, 12:47 AM
 
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oops -newbie mistake. you got a second opinion already.

Also, with just fillings, why do any sedation? Why not just work on one tooth at a time? Laura at 20months now actually likes the dentist. We see him so often she sees him and smiles saying "toothies". Katherine at this age was terrified but her experience of tooth extraction was much worse. Just a filling is not so bad. I would suggest that you ask the dentist how many minutes the procedure will take. Then decide what risk you really want to take for that amount of time. I'm sure that in your gut, you will know what to do.

Also, read the latest Motherine - awesome article on caries. For fish oil, try Coromega. My children love the supplement - beg for it!

Rachael
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#113 of 195 Old 07-04-2002, 03:23 AM
 
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Yep, I'm a "regular dentist" alright, except that I won't berate you for nursing! . You should go with whoever you are comfortable with, and whoever your daughter is comfortable with. That's going to count for a lot!

Simonee, you need a job? Wanna be my "cyber dental assistant"? The pay sucks but the appreciation is big!

Good luck to you, I hope this helped a little!
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#114 of 195 Old 07-05-2002, 06:55 PM
 
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Chevy,
I am wondering how your little one is doing now. I read your post and I get the feeling that she might have had a strong reaction to one or a combination of dental materials that they used in her mouth. Little children are even more susceptible than adults when it comes to toxins. Have you ever heard of kinesiology or "bodyscan 2010" to figure out where your little angel's problem is coming from? Depending on where you live, I could try to put you in touch with a practitioner who could do some muscle testing on your daughter using you as a surrogate. This way, you could rule out if the problem is psychological or physical or both. Let me know if you want/need info. I'd be glad to help.
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#115 of 195 Old 07-05-2002, 07:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Smilemomma


Simonee, you need a job? Wanna be my "cyber dental assistant"? The pay sucks but the appreciation is big!

Uh... I have hardly enough time as it is... But I always like reading the stuff here, and try to reply whenever I feel I have something to say. I know how mysterious dental stuff is for ordinary people like me and most mothering mamas, and I've read so much here that I can sometimes point parents into the right (?) direction and offer support, of course. My own experience, and of course my recent experiences with dd's teeth, put me right there as a mama "who knows waaaay more about dental care than she ever wanted to"

Thanks though. I always look forward to reading your stuff!
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#116 of 195 Old 07-09-2002, 10:10 PM
 
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sorry it took so long to get back to you. yes i am interested I as well think it might be a reaction to maybe the stainless crown UGGHH that i argued i didnt want and was bad for her but of course they didnt want to hear. I called every where form here to colorado looking for a dentist to do an alternative and every one said NOPE. so any info you can send would be great you can email me direct chevy974@aol.com
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#117 of 195 Old 07-10-2002, 01:55 AM
 
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Smilemomma, thanks a lot for your advice. (And thank you, too, simonee.) I still don't know what I'm going to do As far as I can tell, the tooth doesn't hurt her (yet). I don't want to take her back to the 'regular' dentist just because, well, she's a VERY young child and I don't want someone who's not used to working with young toddlers trying to drill her teeth.
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#118 of 195 Old 07-11-2002, 02:26 AM
 
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Hi chevy,
I will have time this Sunday to respond and share the health stuff with you so you can help your dear little daughter. I will email you at the address you gave me. Until then, peace.
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#119 of 195 Old 07-11-2002, 06:16 AM
 
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Good luck. But how do you know this regular dentist is not used to working with toddlers? S/he at least has a kid, and seems to treat that kid right. That's two positive things right there.

But ouch what a terrible situation to be in. Again, lotsaluck.
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#120 of 195 Old 08-08-2002, 08:10 PM
 
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I went to get 3 teeth pulled today, 2 wisdom teeth and a molar. They don't use nitrous, which I prefer, so I agreed to have general anesthesia. They said they would use Demerol, Valium and sodium pentothal.

Anyway, as soon as I went under I apparently had some kind of horrible nightmare. I don't remember much but they said I was swearing at them and telling them all to go to Hell. I remember screaming my head off because I thought one of them hit me. I also thought I was tied to the chair. I was thrashing around a lot.

They swear that no one hit me, and I don't think I was tied down. It was probably all part of the dream. I don't know what could have brought this on. I've never had any kind of general anesthetic before, but I thought that stuff was supposed to make you relax. They said they gave me all they could, and that any more would have to be given in a hospital. They said they would not give me any more IV medications and that I'd either have to make arrangements to have it done in the hospital or just have it done in the office with a local.

So I used the local, which was excruciating. They didn't give me enough and I kept screaming "It hurts! I need another shot!" And all they could say was "You have plenty of Novocaine. It shouldn't hurt." And I tried to say "But I know it hurts because I feel it! You think I'm making it all up? Why would I do that?" But I had gauze and this rubber thing in my mouth, so they couldn't understand me. Thankfully it was all over in 15 minutes.

It scared me a lot and I hope I never have to do it again. They said only 2 wisdom teeth needed to come out, so I hope the others are fine being left in. I still don't understand what happened. Has anyone else ever had a bad reaction to an anesthetic like that before?
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