Curing Cavities with Nutrition - Page 19 - Mothering Forums
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#541 of 861 Old 07-07-2008, 01:35 PM
 
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babsigirl, you will want to keep an eye out for infections and abcesses. Those are very serious and IMO it would be wise to treat immediately. Also, make sure that you are monitoring other teeth for decay (including the first white stage).

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#542 of 861 Old 07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sapientia View Post
I have a big cavity I want to heal-also would just like a good supplement-I am planning on getting butter oil, cod liver oil...but do I need a mineral supplement on top of that?
According to the Weston A Price Foundation:
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The proper way to take in minerals is through mineral-rich water; through nutrient-dense foods and beverages; through mineral-rich bone broths in which all of the macrominerals--sodium, chloride, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium and sulphur--are available in ready-to-use ionized form as a true electrolyte solution; through the use of unrefined sea salt; and by adding small amounts of fine clay or mud as a supplement to water or food, a practice found in many traditional societies throughout the world.
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Also, what else is butter oil good for? I mean, how else does it affect the body?
Butter oil is thought to contain vitamin K2, which is thought to play a role in dental health, bone health, heart health, and the brain.

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#543 of 861 Old 07-07-2008, 02:07 PM
 
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Well, Im confused about xylitol in general. Some people are saying it works, others are saying that sugarless gum with xylitol is bad for teeth.
There is lots of research on xylitol and it can play a very important role in dental health. I definitely believe that it played a role in arresting dd's ECC, especially because she is a picky toddler eater who refuses most WAP foods so we couldn't go the totally dietary route. The readily available sugarless gum that contains xylitol (what you would find in drugstores and supermarkets) has lots of other cr@p ingredients and I would not recommend it. What you are looking for is products with high xylitol content and few other ingredients. Use candies or gum, aiming for a total of 5 g per day spread out throughout the day after meals and snacks. We've been using Spry candies, but we'd like to upgrade to European made birch derived ones. Xylitol acts in many ways, one of which is to alkalinize the mouth, creating a mineralizing environment. You can also alkalinize your saliva by adopting an alkalinizing diet...but that requires some commitment.

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#544 of 861 Old 07-07-2008, 02:20 PM
 
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Denali,

CLO:
I would suggest ordering this CLO from The Vitamin Store - "all United States orders will be charged a flat shipping fee of CAN$21.95". If you order enough CLO for the year for the whole family, the shipping won't be too bad.

butter oil:
I would suggest looking into a local source of organic butter -- does that exist where you live? Call the dairy and find out if the cattle are pastured right now. If so, stock up on butter for the year and freeze it. That butter will contain the same vitamin K2 as butter oil contains (though in slightly less concentrated quantities).

minerals:
Read my previous post about that. Get to know some hunters (if you don't know any already) to get access to organic game bones for free and start making stock . You can superconcentrate the stock and freeze it in ice cube trays -- the best mineral supplement you'll find.

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#545 of 861 Old 07-08-2008, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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K2 has also been show to help asthma in one study.
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#546 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 08:46 AM
 
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OK, I'm determined to read this entire thread - I started to two years ago, but now I've got ds with holes in the front of two of his teeth, so I'm getting serious!

I've got a quick question for now - Where I live (in Israel), raw milk is simply not available. I've been looking since we moved here almost three years ago. Perhaps I could talk to a farmer directly, but there is a huge language barrier, and the few times I've tried, people have just thought I was a nut job. Sigh.

The only milk that I have found in the supermarkets - it's SO weird - is ultrapasturized homogonized milk. I forget what homogonized means but I think I've read that it's actually worse than pasturization. I don't know. Oh, and I've only seen 3% and 1%. ?!?! Weird, no? Should I even bother getting this stuff? Or is it just useless?

The cheese situation is pretty much the same - made from the same milk. Butter, I'm not sure about. I'm a new vegan (sigh, could go off on a whole tangent there) and I kinda feel like I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to do whatever it takes to help ds's teeth. I'm also preggers, and I haven't even thought of what I should be taking for this babe. I know I'm vegan but my midwife STRONGLY suggested that I start taking fish oil so I'm doing taking capsules (bad vegan, I know!). It's all so overwhelming!

OK, back to reading page 7 of this thread. Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom.
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#547 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 02:21 PM
 
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sunshinestarr, all commercial milk is homogenized -- but in Canada, "homogenized" on commercial milk also means that the fat content is standardized to 3.5%. Homogenization means that the fat globules are very small and suspended within the milk. It's supposed to be less digestible that non-homogenized milk, which is hard to get unless you are getting it from a cow or a specialized dairy. We can get pasteurized "standard" milk that is not homogenized - it separates into thick cream on top and lower fat milk on the bottom.

I don't want to attack your choice, but I am not convinced that the vegan lifestyle is optimal for maternal or dental health. The WAP dietary guidelines give an idea of a diet which some believe is optimal for dental health.

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#548 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 02:53 PM
 
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Do you suggest that I not bother trying to get ds to drink this milk or eat this cheese? Is it just nutritionally empty?
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#549 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 03:28 PM
 
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sunshinestar, unfortunately we have btdt with my 2 youngest and cavities.Although we were not vegetarian, we started cutting out a lot of carbs like pasta which really are filling but nothing more and eating more "real foods" and more traditional diet foods which have helped especially bone broth and fish oil. right now it is so hot ...I just can't even think of bone broth but I would make it and then use it as a base or starter for all other dishes.
my younger kids are "gluten free " also due to gluten intolerence so that helps too.

Last year we spent the whole summer in Israel and we just loved this organic raw goats yogurt called (I think) "givat Olam" it is from somewhere in the shomron and is really yum, my kids had this everyday. maybe you can get some where you are or in Jerusalem ,or the area. They may also have raw milk and cheese etc;
HTH
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#550 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 03:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Denali View Post
One more question....I read that most use the perfect prescription toothsoap, but a couple wrote they use the Dr Bronner soap....just personal preference, or is one better than the other...?

Oh, and one more (after that, I'll go to sleep, I promise ):

If I want to order a variety of xylitol products (e.g. spiffy wipes, candies, xylosweet powder, etc.), is there a website that carries all? I found only various websites with EITHER wipes OR the xylosweet OR the candies.....


I used to use toothsoap which I love, but it started to get $$$for us so I started using dr.bronners and in my opinion works as well but costs way less
I never really bothered with all the different zylitol products since my youngest was then to young to chew gum so I just get the tooth gel and they are happy to brush and "chew" 3 times a day and they always ask for "more"
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#551 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 04:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Adding greens, such as gentle tasting romaine, to kid smoothies would be a nutrition boost. Anything juice or blended is easier for body to digest. Just be careful of spinach or kale and the like, they are not to be eaten raw.
Saw this a few pages back.. Why not eat raw spinach or kale?

Thanks!

Mombh- I had NO idea that there was raw goats milk and cheese and stuff here!! Thanks so much!
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#552 of 861 Old 07-13-2008, 05:12 PM
 
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Whew! I read all 28 pages!! Where's my prize?!?!
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#553 of 861 Old 07-14-2008, 04:49 AM
 
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ss's, they sell the goats' milk here (in my town, anyway) in even the most boring of supermarkets. I'm sure you can find it there ...
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#554 of 861 Old 07-14-2008, 05:24 AM
 
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ss's, they sell the goats' milk here (in my town, anyway) in even the most boring of supermarkets. I'm sure you can find it there ...
Is it raw?
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#555 of 861 Old 07-14-2008, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sunshinestarr View Post
Saw this a few pages back.. Why not eat raw spinach or kale?

Thanks!

Mombh- I had NO idea that there was raw goats milk and cheese and stuff here!! Thanks so much!
They are high in oxalic acid, interferes with mineral absorption.

Can also check with WAPF chapter leaders in Israel
http://www.westonaprice.org/localcha...ex.html#israel
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#556 of 861 Old 07-14-2008, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sunshinestarr View Post
Do you suggest that I not bother trying to get ds to drink this milk or eat this cheese? Is it just nutritionally empty?
There is some evidence ultra pasteurized is even worse than pasteurized b/c of the high heat shocks the milk and reduces nutrients. Homogenized fat has been linked to heart disease. I'd keep looking for an alternative, good luck!
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#557 of 861 Old 07-15-2008, 03:10 AM
 
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Thank you, Jane!
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#558 of 861 Old 07-15-2008, 02:15 PM
 
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Does anyone know anything about the Child's Life brand?

I have been giving DD the Multi-Vitamins/Mineral and then also the CLO. She actually loves the CLO (15 months) as it has a strawberry flavour. She's not as keen on the vitamins though as they taste and smell very vitaminy.
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#559 of 861 Old 07-15-2008, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Does anyone know anything about the Child's Life brand?

I have been giving DD the Multi-Vitamins/Mineral and then also the CLO. She actually loves the CLO (15 months) as it has a strawberry flavour. She's not as keen on the vitamins though as they taste and smell very vitaminy.
The CLO is much too low in A and D. Chemical versions of vitamins act very differently in the body than food based nutrition, and some are toxic (retinyl palmitate, D2).
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#560 of 861 Old 07-15-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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But as a supplement, is this brand ok? DD is just learning to eat so there is no way I can rely on her getting nutrition (beyond breastfeeding) from a wide variety of foods high in A and D.

Is it this particular brand of CLO that is low in A and D or is that CLO in general being lower than what's available from particular food sources?
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#561 of 861 Old 07-16-2008, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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But as a supplement, is this brand ok? DD is just learning to eat so there is no way I can rely on her getting nutrition (beyond breastfeeding) from a wide variety of foods high in A and D.

Is it this particular brand of CLO that is low in A and D or is that CLO in general being lower than what's available from particular food sources?
It's lower than other brands... stripped of CLO's natural vitamin levels. The vitamins could also be the chemical forms added back, as other companies do. IMO it's not worth it. I don't know it's heavy metal or PCB content either.

Once I learned how important high levels of A & D are to many processes in the body, I would give only high vitamin CLO like Blue Ice or Radiant Life or at the very least my favorite budget CLO...Twinlab... but with organ meats and pastured egg yolks and grassfed dairy, as other sources of A & D.

There is also evidence that giving polyunsaturated fatty acids without a full complement of vitamins A and D are rendered unstable and create free radicals in the body. A & D play important roles with the fats as they are assimilated. Another example of once you start fooling around with anything natural, processing food in some way, there is a consequence. There is a reason why natural cod liver oil is such a beneficial supplement for teeth, bones, immunity, etc. and the benefits are from both the fatty acids and the vitamins.

You will provide a good amount of A and D in your bm if your diet is high in them... such as the traditional diets containing approx. 50,000 IU of A and 5,000 IU of D. It is always stated that bm doesn't contain "enough" vitamin D... but recent studies out of Harvard indicated enough D was transferred through bm if the mother took 6,000 IU a day. Which is approx. the amount traditional diets eat or the amount exposing your whole body to the sun at certain times of the year! This says a lot to me about how wise traditional diets are and how our bodies are designed... not that "breastmilk is deficient in D so let's give them a chemical supplement".

If you take enough high vitamin CLO and other sources of nutrients, it will benefit her. Omega 3's, like all other fats, are directly increased in bm if eaten by you.
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#562 of 861 Old 07-16-2008, 01:46 PM
 
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I posted somewhere back in this thread and I have tried to skim it over the past two days...here's our updates, it's getting much worse, not better.

13yo: only has 3-4 cavities right now, will need to have braces, her teeth are not coming in well, on the x-rays you can see them, they look like someone just threw them in there! She has had numerous fillings and probably 6-8 teeth pulled out, plus she tends to have extra fragments of teeth that come in and look like abscesses that need removed.

9yo: has had many teeth filled, maybe 8? Also had an abscess a few months ago that we had pulled. Now she is having lots of pain in one of her molars, it's a baby tooth, you can see the permanent coming in, but the cavity is running into the nerve and it looks like it might even be causing damage to her permanent tooth below. She has at least 6 cavities that need filled besides that large one. And she is in constant pain.

6yo: 9 cavities, 3 baby root canals, and 6 crowns was the diagnosis. His teeth look horrible, his breath is horrible and he has had 2 abscesses pulled, and 6 cavities, plus I had the back teeth sealed to try to help. the cost is going to be about 2K, plus he will need spacers, one of his permanent teeth is trying to come in sideways, it's pushing on a baby tooth and because of it not coming in, the bottom corresponding tooth is now too high, setting his bite off, so we opted to have the baby tooth pulled.

2, almost 3yo: his teeth are HORRIBLE. He has to have work done on 20 teeth, he has had a really bad abscess that we had to have removed 2 months ago, it came on so suddenly and severely, we thought we were going to have to admit him for IV antibiotics. His teeth are rotten looking, black, his front teeth look like classic bottle rot. they want to do his work under general in the hospital, costing over 5K, our insurance will pay for most, leaving us 1K, still alot.

So, there's the latest with their teeth. we are wondering if we should try to treat without the surgeries and fillings or if we are taking too big a chance that the permanent teeth will be damaged or we will continue having emergency abscesses.

I feel overwhelmed at all the suggestions and changes. The kids hate taking supplements, hate the weston price type food (heck, they won't even eat soup for goodness sakes!), they still get junk food at school or bible camp or whatever, don't drink much juice, my 9yo doesn't eat or drink any dairy, the boys will drink a little milk if I flavor it, but they don't like to just drink milk (and I can easily get raw milk). forget kombucha or kefur or organ meat or fermented stuff, it just doesn't get eaten, they'd rather starve!

So any advice would be great, I am going to reread the thread looking for a few ideas to implement, but I am frustrated.

I have read a connection between gluten allergy and this kind of enamel problem, I had them tested (blood, full panel, I ordered it myself) and they were negative. I tried to convince everyone to try to eat gluten free, but no one wants to do that if they aren't have stomach issues and don't know. so I am thinking of ordering the tests from enterolabs, but they are expensive, to do the full panel, which I would want to do, is 399, i believe? each?

Has anyone else seen a correlation between the two?

thanks!
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#563 of 861 Old 07-17-2008, 05:17 AM
 
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I couldn't read that and not send you a . That's a lot of stuff. I'm sorry you have to deal with all that!
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#564 of 861 Old 07-17-2008, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow Barb, that is overwhelming, I'm so sorry. I personally wouldn't try to change such serious issues with nutrition only. Weston Price did have patients this bad, but he was able to put them on a perfect diet, with large spoonfuls of HVBO and HVCLO. The pain and the abcesses sound like they need immediate attention to me.

Could it be possible that you all also very vitamin D deficient? That alone can explain the enamel problem. Did you supplement while bf'ing? Us northerners need to be very concerned about that. It seems like each successive child has suffered worse. The vitamin D - 25 OH (D) - blood test is very easy and should be covered by ins.

What about raw milk/egg/cream/fruit smoothies? (You are *so* lucky living in PA... our raw milk comes from a family farm in your state!) I would make all grains, potatoes, casseroles with bone broth. I would literally bribe them to take high vitamin cod liver oil, see if the cinnamon or other flavors of Blue Ice would work. High vitamin butter oil would be easy to hide under regular butter on bread (don't heat it).

I would cut out the junk food and send your own snacks based on whole soaked grains, grassfed beef jerky, salmon jerky, raw cheese and nuts. If their systems are already so acidic, more sugar is going to keep them from remineralizing and the problems will never have a chance to resolve. I know it's hard to be different, but I have only 1 young child and not 5 already used to junk food so I can't imagine how difficult it's really going to be. I would try to explain it to them and get them to understand it all. It will be an important life lesson for them learning to care for their bodies. (Not that you don't already... you know what I mean I hope? )

Not sure what to say about Enterolab if there is no gut problems. Do you feel that its a factor or do you feel nutritional history would explain it? I think you have to use your mama intuition on that one. It's wicked expensive isn't it... maybe you can just test your little one? I would call and ask them for a discount, explaining your situation.
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#565 of 861 Old 07-17-2008, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh and Dr. Ron's organ meat capsules are very easy to take, might those be an option? www.drrons.com Do they like shellfish? clams, mussels, oysters.
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#566 of 861 Old 07-17-2008, 06:12 PM
 
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firstly

I have also read about a connection between gluten intolerence and enamel/ teeth problems. I don't know enough about that and I assume that it could be connected to the fact that gluten intolerent kids don't nesessarily absorb enough zinc, b vitamins , magnesium, etc; it may also be that they have leaky gut etc;
my youngest 2 are both gluten intolerent and they both had a bunch o cavities and decay. youngest ds had 2 teeth that came in as a baby stained and mishaped. those teeth are o.k. though they just look a little off color but we havn't done anything to them , hopefully they will fall out in the next yr or so. we did treat 4 of his molars and they were done in office, in 3 visits, and he has 2 smaller cavities that right now the dr. said we can wait and see. I don't think that the diet and xylitol reversed any decay(although it might have) but it definately did stop it in tracks , since he got this diagnosis at age 3 and we didn't treat him till he was comfortable sitting and going to the dentist etc; so he didn't get any further decay in over a year and no more cavities.
I did the enterolabs for myself after some of my kids were positive through bloodwork. The only test I did was the gluten one and it was just over $100.
I don't know if the price has gone up or maybe you are talking about a test that tests for more than just gluten intolerence?
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#567 of 861 Old 07-17-2008, 06:18 PM
 
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yeah, I would just do gluten intolerance. That is not that pricey. There is a connection between gluten allergies and lack of enamel (dd had none) but it's simply about gut damage, and I think more people are actively damaged by gluten than anything else....

Hope you get some answers, mama. That's a tough space to be in. I'm sorry.
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#568 of 861 Old 07-22-2008, 06:29 PM
 
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We took DS (2.5) to the dentist and he has the beginnings of 4 cavities. I have read through this whole thread and most of the suggestions I see have to do with eating meat or meat by products - we are vegetarian. We do use eggs, butter, cheese but do not have the $$$ to buy the butter oil that is being suggested. DS is an extremely picky eater and (I believe) is gluten intolerant. Taking all of those things into consideration, what would you suggest, wise ones? :

I have bought xylitol to use in baked goods instead of sugar.
We bought some spry toothpaste but he says it is too spicy. As of yet he won't let us use the infant tooth gel - I think it scares him
He won't take vitamins, so any capsules are out. Smoothies are a no go, so I can't hide stuff in them. Is CLO easily hidden in a drink?

Thanks so much, and sorry for all of the questions

Mommy to a wonderfully passionate little one
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#569 of 861 Old 07-22-2008, 06:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by babsiegirl View Post
I've been searching for a dentist with Weston Price inclinations, but haven't been able to find one. We're in Portland,OR, but I'm willing to find someone in another state who would be interested in email or telephone consultation. Anyone have experience with such a dentist? So far, the only pediatric dentist I've brought my daughter to (with her sad little breastfed, cavity ravaged teeth) told me to stop breastfeeding and had never even heard of Weston Price!
If you are still looking for a pediatric dentist we took DS to Dr. Allen(Allan?) Pike in Beaverton and liked him. I am not sure if they do email or telephone stuff but it may be worth a try. ETA: I am not sure if he knows anything about Weston Price or not, but his attitude about DS' teeth was respectful and he did not try and push fluoride when we said we didn't want to do it.

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#570 of 861 Old 07-22-2008, 07:54 PM
 
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I give CLO to DD but the one I have is strawberry flavoured. According to a PP, the CLO might not be the best, but DD loves it, so far. I put it on a spoon and she takes it but recently started using a syringe, which she takes. I need to look into the spry toothpaste and zylitol.
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