Braces For Widening Pallat and Fixing TMJ?? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 12 Old 11-14-2008, 03:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What do you guys think? Do you think braces can erally help widen the pallat and raise my back teeth to help with tmj? I met with a dentist who says it can but the braces are very expensive ($7,000-$9,000). And while I can do a payment plan, it's way too expensive.
Anyone have any stories or insight?
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#2 of 12 Old 11-14-2008, 03:31 AM
 
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I always thought palate widening was done with some other type of appliance, not braces. But I really don't know. My uncle told me it only works on the "young" but I don't know what age he considers that to be. I do think if you had it done correctly it would help the TMJ. Maybe you could get some feedback from some former patients of his? Or get a second opinion? I would search for a biological or holistic dentist...maybe you already did that.

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#3 of 12 Old 11-14-2008, 12:27 PM
 
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Are you sure the TMJ is just due to structural issues? I ask because it would be a huge disappointment to do all this work and not get relief. I've got relatively mild TMJ problems, and I eventually figured out they're most likely related to my amalgam fillings. It's not uncommon for in people with mercury toxicity. So I expect my tooth grinding and TMJ discomfort (at times it's been pain, but now I'd just say some discomfort) to get a lot better in the next year or so. Not sure if this could be an issue for you, but something to keep in the back of your mind.
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#4 of 12 Old 11-15-2008, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the replies. The dentist I contacted was a holistic dentist, but looking for others in my area to get a second opinion.
Tanya..I don't think I have heavy metal issues. I did a hair test (While BF before I knew better), but it didn't show anything except for high uranium which Cutler said was still in normal range. I don't believe I ever had silver fillings, maybe a long time ago like 20 years(I'm 30), but not from what I remember. Other than that it woiuld be environmental exposure and/or vax's. I plan on getting pregnant in a few months so chelation wouldn't be an option. But I will definitely keep the heavy metals in my mind when I'm trying to figure this all out.
I did read an article on WAPF by Raymond Silkman, DDS and everything in it applies to me. The bump on the nose, respiratory problems, crowded teeth, constant chapped lips, seeing the line on the lip between inside and outside of the mouth, etc. Here's a link to the article. http://www.westonaprice.org/healthis...velopment.html
Now I'm just waiting to call his office on monday to see if he thinks anything can be done at 30.
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#5 of 12 Old 11-18-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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I think the only problem with a hair test while nursing is that it's more likely to fail one of Cutler's rules (it may tend to look all-low, with many of the essential elements going to the left). Other than that, I think it's accurate.

I'm not sure what other causes of TMJ are out there, just wanted to throw out this one. I saw an osteopath who did CST for a bit, it didn't do anything for me, but in general I've heard that sometimes helps. But if you've got more permanent structural stuff (vs just alignment) then it seems like you'd get the same results as me.
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#6 of 12 Old 11-18-2008, 09:47 PM
 
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My SIL had/has TMJ and it was corrected through CST. She said she was in constant horrible pain. Now she doesn't have any.

My DD had a palate expander when she was 8. It was not braces. It was an appliance for the top of her mouth, and we had to "wind it" each night which opened it up, and then, since they're still growing at that point, the palate is filled in with new cartilage. It was impressive. I know other kids that have had top and bottom expanders. I don't know any adults who've had it but that doesn't mean they don't exist. But because it's so expensive, I would look into CST first.

Kathy, mother of 3, wife of 1. My new recipe blog: www.kathysrecipebox.wordpress.com (no longer searchable by allergen, but at least it doesn't have a virus!)
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#7 of 12 Old 11-18-2008, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I did try CST for a while but it didn't help all that much. It made me feel better for a little while but then it came back in a few days. At $145 a session the braces might be cheaper. I emailed Dr. Silkman and waiting for his response, hopefully I get one.
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#8 of 12 Old 11-23-2008, 07:13 AM
 
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I'm on the same boat - 8 yr old dd has severe crowding issues and our holistic dentist wants to use Orthotropics or "Biobloc" appliances to widen the palate and guide the growth of the jaw. It seems like the results may be promising but I have a few issues with the approach. I remember that Cutler recommends the use of nickel free wires for orthodontic appliances (series 200 which is nickel-free instead of 400 which contains nickel). I also believe that acrylics and plastics are part of the manufacturing process of the Biobloc appliance and can't be avoided. I aksed about titanium and ceramic but it doesn't seem to be an option. Another Biobloc dentist suggested gold but I think it may not be 24k gold wire but an alloy that may contain nickel or other harmful metals and be equally bad plus more expensive. I also want to be absolutely sure that breaking the roots of the front teeth won't be an issue, which seems intuitive since the Biobloc appliances won't apply compression forces as conventional braces do. Also the cost of the treatment is extremely prohibitive - about $7000 I'm wondering if chelation (Cutler's protocol to resolve mineral transport issues) and supps like VitK2 and A,D,C plus macrominerals would produce good results without the need for ortho work.
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#9 of 12 Old 11-23-2008, 02:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommymama View Post
I'm wondering if chelation (Cutler's protocol to resolve mineral transport issues) and supps like VitK2 and A,D,C plus macrominerals would produce good results without the need for ortho work.
Do you know or suspect that you've got a heavy metals problem? His impaired mineral transport is related to mercury, and his approach to chelation will help if you've got something like mercury, arsenic, lead (if you use dmsa) and stuff like that. I think getting heavy metals out is very worthwhile for many, many varied health reasons but I don't think it would do much if that's not a part of what you've got going on.

I've also read interesting stuff about cranial-sacral in addition to the vit/min supplementation and detox work if it's needed. And, there's been a really interesting discussion in the Allergies forum on tongue tie and teeth and palate issues, and lifelong digestion (and cranial-sacral after tongue ties are corrected).

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...941070&page=28

In case any of the discussion is of interest.
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#10 of 12 Old 11-24-2008, 05:46 AM
 
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Hi Tanya,

Thanks for the thread - interesting read! I believe that ny dd suffers from mercury poisoning although I've never done a DDI hair analysis to confirm that. However, just by putting 2 and 2 togther I think it's evident that mercury and perhaps other toxic metals plus yeast overgrowth plus food allergies are issues for us. I had a mouthfull of mercury during my pregnancy and had a lot of fillings removed (supposedly safely by using IAMOT protocol) while breastfeeding. Also dd was born in 2000 and the shots she's received most likely contained mercury. I'm contemplating undergoing Cutler frequent low dose chelation protocol because while dd does not show signs of classic autism she does exhibit adhd innatentive type traits, along with signs of impaired mineral transport, food allergies, restricted diet, candida overgrowth and other problems including the crowded teeth, posterior tongue tie, shape of the cranium and last but not least dental decay (which I firmly believe is also related to the factors above). Needless to say I don't want to "fix" the problem with a head gear and conventional braces. I think Biobloc along with mercury detox, CST and vitamin/mineral supplementation will do a much better job of fixing those things in the long run.

Marilia
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#11 of 12 Old 11-24-2008, 01:02 PM
 
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I am always fascinated... did you put together the pieces of what's going on? Even seeing my health problems, and seeing that my son (2nd child) had some odd, somewhat troubling stuff going on, I don't think I ever would've figured out mercury (and various other heavy metals and probably assorted other toxic chemicals--I think I collected weird stuff for a long, long time). I found a great healthcare provider who linked everything--this was just so out of my realm of possibilities.

My 1st child "hides" it well--she has a metabolism like my husband, for her it's just some inflexibility and overreactions--subtle stuff that I didn't realize was affected til it was gone (but she fails 2 of Cutler's counting rules--she's the only one we've tested). My 2nd has more classic stuff, albeit subtle too, his immune system is (was? this fall is much better) weak, food allergies (ours are pretty minor, I feel very lucky), head-banging, stuttering, some other stimming (head-shaking, some toe-walking, like that), and we need to be gfcf for him (and for me).

As for fixing all this--I am hoping to do something similar along the lines of looking into whether we should address what I think is a tongue tie, and CST along with (probably after) biomed and Cutler-style chelation (we're doing that now, though slowly on the chelating part). We don't have tooth decay, I have to assume part is luck and part is all the supplements (biomed plus Price's A, D, and K2).

Hey, not sure you've seen it, but there's a Chelating Mamas thread around...
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...435848&page=31

It helped me, just in getting a feel for the process and how to balance things. ... Your name is familiar, if I blanked on a previous conversation, I'm sorry, I have a hard time keeping track of screen names. Too much else on my mind.

ETA: Okay, I went and looked, and hi! Found you on that thread I (uselessly) linked.
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#12 of 12 Old 11-25-2008, 07:32 AM
 
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Tanya,

Yeah, I got started on the research by reading the Chelating Mamas thread and then reading Cutler's "Amalgam Illness", Huggins "Uninformed Consent", Dr. Bock's and Dr. McCandless biomed books and by subscribing to the "Autism-Mercury", "Dental Chelation", "Adult Chelation" and "Frequent Dose Chelation" yahoo groups among other things. I found interesting info regarding orthotropics and evidence to support it:

http://www.zedpr.co.uk/prof-john-mew...-orthotropics/

For adults I've heard Crozat or ALF would be the best alternatives, along with CST/chiro and nutritional support. I've also heard that conventional ortho can be a contributing cause of TMJ too.
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