How much supervision is enough? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 150 Old 04-29-2011, 08:13 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Yeah, my ds is 27mo, and the furthest I've gone while he's in the bath is to grab a towel off the back of the door.  He won't be left alone in the tub until he's at least 4 probably, and then I'll have to re-evaluate and see how I feel.

 

Children can drown in 1inch of water.  It's not a risk I'm willing to take with my ds's life whatsoever, and it WOULD be a HUGE problem with CPS if they were ever called

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#122 of 150 Old 04-29-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Thandiwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Where the wild things are...
Posts: 2,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

sos, my little ones started bathing by themselves at around 14 months. now, of course I keep my ears on them and go check on them with my eyes every 5 minutes or so, but my children were brought into this world with awareness and raised with awareness and so if I tell them the bathtub is slippery and they shouldn't stand in it, for the most part they don't.



Have you read THIS story?  This woman's 13 month old child died in the tub alone.  She thought it was okay.  She checked on the child. 

 

Fwiw, I have a 14 month old child, and he still slips around with me *right there.*  I would shudder to leave a child that young alone in the tub.  There have been times when he has reached for a toy and slipped under.  Please think long and hard about this.  It's such a small thing to do differently, and it could make the difference between life and death.  Why take the chance, y'know?  I'd really be so sad to hear something unexpected and tragic happened.

 

cocoanib likes this.

 

joy.gif Wife to  geek.gif,  mama to  reading.gif,   guitar.gif, fly-by-nursing1.gif, and thumbsuck.gif - bonus mommy to  loveeyes.gif!  homebirth.jpghomeschool.gifnovaxnocirc.gif

Thandiwe is offline  
#123 of 150 Old 04-29-2011, 10:06 PM
 
Tjej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: a beautiful place
Posts: 1,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Well, I don't leave the cleaning products lying around.  I do have pens around (my guess is that ink is toxic, but hey, maybe it isn't).  My point about poisons lying around is that we DO lock up our chemicals and have other precautions that are not necessary in a primitive society, purely because of how we live.

 

The bathtub thing is really something for you to reconsider.  My DD was 3 and a half and on a dock at our cabin.  I was at the other end of the dock, she was bending over and playing with the water, I suggested she be more careful/move back or lay down because it is deep.  She hadn't gotten back yet and fell in.  If I had not had my eyes directly on her I would not have known where she was or what happened.  It was totally silent.  I got her out quickly but still needed to get the water out of her.  A kid in a tub might make noise splashing but still, how would you know it wasn't fun splashing. 

 

My kids are pretty good about understanding their limits too.  I let them experience their own fear of heights or other things.  I don't hover.  I let them stir stuff too.  BUT I also am mindful of danger and don't put them in situations that could be tragic by their small-child inability to see the bigger picture or lack of impulse control or being physically incapable of saving themself.

 

Tjej

Tjej is offline  
#124 of 150 Old 04-29-2011, 10:41 PM
 
katelove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,756
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

Ok, I just want to say that The Continuum Concept doesn't advocate leaving babies alone in the bath. I'm actually quite surprised that I've had to write that sentence headscratch.gif

 

Jean Liedloff observed that babies and young children in the Yequanna tribe were quite aware of their personal limitations and of hazards in their environment. She felt that be constantly "warning" children of danger that it became a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. Tell a child "Carefull! Don't fall." and you've put the idea of falling into their head therefore they fall kind of thing.

 

Another part of it is that they spend their pre-mobile lives observing the rest of the tribe. So, by the time they're active they've already spent 6 or so months watching their family *not* walk through the fire pit etc and they copy that behavior.

 

Yet another factor is that they don't live in nuclear families. So, when they bathe in the river, it is with a whole group of children of various ages and the older ones care for the younger ones.

 

It is my opinion that TCC has a lot of valuable insights for naturally minded parents but, of course, most of us don't live in tribal circumstances so adaptations need to be made.

 

I have noticed from my own experiences that my baby is quite aware of her physical limitations. I avoid "be careful!" as much as I can (although it slips out occasionally) and she manages herself very well and rarely gets herself into a situation she can't get out of.

 

 


Mother of two spectacular girls, born mid-2010 and late 2012  mdcblog5.gif

katelove is online now  
#125 of 150 Old 04-30-2011, 04:59 AM
 
AllyRae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Glad to hear that.  I feel like whenever someone on here decides to parent their child in a way that is dangerous or neglectful, they cite this book saying "Well, we believe in TCC, so it's ok".  It gives the impression that TCC is a manual for how to neglect and endanger your child.  Glad to hear it's really just people misinterpreting the book and using it falsly to support bad decisions.  

 

FWIW, I'm huge on cultural anthropology and I think other cultures can teach us huge lessons.  But one also has to be able to decipher when the ideas learned are not actually generalizable to our own culture.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post

Ok, I just want to say that The Continuum Concept doesn't advocate leaving babies alone in the bath. I'm actually quite surprised that I've had to write that sentence headscratch.gif

 



 


~Brandon Michael (11/23/03), Jocelyn Lily Nữ (2/4/07, adopted 5/28/07 from Vietnam), Amelia Rylie (1/14/09), & Ryland Josef William (9/7/05-9/7/05 @ 41 wks). 
AllyRae is offline  
#126 of 150 Old 04-30-2011, 06:46 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm so guilty of the "be careful!" refrain...

I catch myself sometimes but I think I say it way too often...

 

 

Drowning I believe is one of the biggest causes of death for kids under 5...Pools are so dangerous to little kids specifically because it is so silent. Besides drowning my DD could very easily turn the water on and burn herself or slip and crack her head...She still slips all over the place at almost 2...

 

Like I said before about TCC, I love the book, I love the theories behind it but I take it and modify to work in this world and for my family. I'm not living in a tribe somewhere where the babies are watched by everyone. It's just me and I only have 2 eyes. 

 

We didn't babyproof at all though. Didn't lock up cleaning products (although we only have a few anyway and they aren't as toxic as some)...Ever since DD could/crawl walk I've just made it clear what can and cannot be touched. I feel like I got lucky too though, she isn't a kid who has ever really put stuff in her mouth or stuck her fingers in things she shouldn't.

Ldavis24 is offline  
#127 of 150 Old 04-30-2011, 08:04 PM
 
lightinmyhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

ok, before everyone continues to be judgmental, let me clarify.  My toddler is most often bathing with her older sister, and when they aren't bathing together her sister's eyes and ears are on her as well as mine.  I am never out of ear shot and constantly checking on her to see that she's ok.  Both of my girls are advanced for their ages and are often mistaken for being older than they actually are, so I do have a bit more trust in their abilities but at the same time recognize their vulnerability and would never do anything that would endanger them.  Also, turning your back on a child on a dock is not at all comparable to walking away for a few minutes when they're in a bathtub, I would never, EVER not be holding the hand of a small child near a large body of water, let alone turn my back for any reason whatsoever.  The way that I parent my children is neither dangerous nor neglectful, it is with much awareness and consciousness of both their abilities and limitations.  I also understand that we live in a different culture than those in TTC, I like the spirit behind the book, I'm not trying to be literal here.  I would never dream of taking my eyes and ears off of my babies like the women in the tribe do, because yes, there is an entire tribe of people with their eyes and ears open to all the children and it is an entirely different environment.  I'd also like to mention that I just spent the evening with relatives who have a toddler 6 weeks older than my youngest and I wouldn't turn my back on this particular child for even an instant, I wouldn't think it was safe at all in any environment in any circumstance, every child is different and this particular one is into everything and seems to have no sense of danger or ability to have forethought.... she's also still pretty uncoordinated and unsteady whereas my toddler has been holding her own head up since about 2 weeks and has developed fine motor control far superior to that of her peers and at a much earlier age than even that of her older sister.  I am not some uneducated moron who read TCC and got some wild ideas in my head that I try to implement in an entirely different society, I am a highly intelligent, educated, amazing, dedicated aware mother who read the book, loves the spirit behind it, and tries to consciously apply what works for my family and adapt that application to the individual needs and abilities of my very bright yet obviously uniquely individual children.  

lightinmyhands is offline  
#128 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 06:37 AM
 
SilverFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 877
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My daughter is 14 months old and is fully capable of sitting happily in the tub playing with her toys for a moment or two while I do a quick chore. In the year+ I've been bathing her, I've never seen her do anything reckless, and the one or two times I've seen her slip and fall (exclusively because i got in her way, interestingly) I've been very happy to see how she dealt with it and recovered. I'm not sitting down at the computer, precisely because i am aware it can be a time suck, I'm not turning on the vacuum or going out of hearing range (not that it's even possible in our tiny apartment). I'm well aware that drowning is a potential risk, just as I'm aware of many potential risks in everyday activities that we take for granted, but it is a risk I have weighed and so I am comfortable with the way I deal with it. It clearly isn't for everyone. There are going to be many many many situations where I will need to decide if I'm comfortable with the potential risks for my daughter, and honestly, for every single one, I could probably find someone who thinks the risks are too high, or find a scary news story predicting the results of said action.
SilverFish is offline  
#129 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 07:32 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I just don't understand when people try to justify leaving a child under 2yo in a bathtub alone.  It's one of the most dangerous things you can do.  Children near large bodies of water should be wearing life jackets. 

 

I very strongly believe that when a child (particularly one that is just barely a year!) is left alone in a bathtub, its neglect.  And its very dangerous - whether you think so or not - it is.  Period.  There really is no justifying it, b/c its dangerous. 

 

Even when children are advanced physically (mine was walking at 8.5mo and is now talking like a 4yo), its dangerous b/c children are nothing if not unpredictable, and you never know when the first slip will happen.  You never know when an older sibling will turn on the hot water instead of the cold and scald themselves, or when they'll turn on the water and fill the tub too full.

 

Don't believe me?  Read this:  http://stakerzxposed.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-02-02T13%3A06%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=20

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#130 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 07:40 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

I just don't understand when people try to justify leaving a child under 2yo in a bathtub alone.  It's one of the most dangerous things you can do.  Children near large bodies of water should be wearing life jackets. 

 

I very strongly believe that when a child (particularly one that is just barely a year!) is left alone in a bathtub, its neglect.  And its very dangerous - whether you think so or not - it is.  Period.  There really is no justifying it, b/c its dangerous. 

 

Even when children are advanced physically (mine was walking at 8.5mo and is now talking like a 4yo), its dangerous b/c children are nothing if not unpredictable, and you never know when the first slip will happen.  You never know when an older sibling will turn on the hot water instead of the cold and scald themselves, or when they'll turn on the water and fill the tub too full.

 

Don't believe me?  Read this:  http://stakerzxposed.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-02-02T13%3A06%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=20


I'm hoping you meant "on" not "near"...I would totally agree with them needing life jackets ON water (as in they are on a boat)...That's just common sense..

 

Making a toddler wear a life jacket "near" water is ridiculous. So every time I take my kid to the beach where I watch her closely she should be wearing a life jacket by that logic..We live within 300 yards of a pond, I guess I should have had her in a life jacket outside in the yard??....There is such a thing as over kill and that is it. Just watch your kid and it will be a non-issue.

 

Ldavis24 is offline  
#131 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 08:45 AM
 
lightinmyhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

every parent has to weigh the risks for their own children and find their comfort level.  Life is risky, living is dangerous, it is our job as parents to minimize the dangers of life, but not to wrap our children up in little bubbles.  I've got relatives that won't buy their children a trampoline they so desperately want because they believe they could fall off and get injured... where does this stop? where is the line?  When do we all stop worrying so much and start living?  Those of you that are so worried about a moment alone in the bathtub  for someone else's child that you don't even know, do you get in cars with your kids? with or without a safety seat, motor vehicles are very dangerous things and car accidents happen all the time. " In the United States during 2005, 1,335 children ages 14 years and younger died as occupants in motor vehicle crashes, and approximately 184,000 were injured. That’s an average of 4 deaths and 504 injuries each day."  " There were more than 3300 unintentional drownings in the United States, an average of 9 per day.(CDC 2006)

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention "

 

So, as you can see, drowning is a serious concern, though from my research family pools are the big culprit..... but driving your child around in a car is also a very risky activity and I don't doubt that most if not all of you own vehicles and probably cell phones.... who talks on the phone while driving with their kids in the car? sends a text message? navigates using googlemaps?  you no doubt trust in your own driving abilities, the safety of your vehicle, the time of day and weather conditions in which you are driving,  weigh the risks for your family and decide that the risks are worth that trip to the mall or supermarket or grandma's house.....  no one is calling you neglectful, are they?  Even though you are willingly, and frequently, putting your family in a potentially dangerous situation all for the convenience of getting somewhere faster.  Just food for thought.

Youngfrankenstein likes this.
lightinmyhands is offline  
#132 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 09:29 AM
 
AKislandgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

 

 

I very strongly believe that when a child (particularly one that is just barely a year!) is left alone in a bathtub, its neglect.  And its very dangerous - whether you think so or not - it is.  Period.  There really is no justifying it, b/c its dangerous. 

 

I totally agree with this!  There simply is no way to justify leaving a baby alone in a bathtub.
 

 

Thandiwe likes this.

Sue, Mama to Fiona Aileen (2/1/09) and  Maeve Penelope (10/7/11) familybed2.gif cd.gif
 

AKislandgirl is offline  
#133 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 11:39 AM
 
AllyRae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


No offense, but being 'extremely advanced' doesn't mean being drown proof.  I realize that on MDC, there seems to be a disproportional number of 'extremely advanced' children, but at 14 months old, there really isn't a good way to determine extremely advanced.  14 months old is a BABY.  A baby can be advanced in some areas but lack the maturity, body strength, or wisdom in another.  My son, who was ahead on motor skills (and could hold his head up from the first day he was on this planet, was sitting unasssisted at 3 months old, and was walking before a year old, and who has an actual real IQ test results of 142, as done as part of his autism assessments), still slipped in the bathtub and began choking on the water at AGE *4*.  FOUR!  THREE YEARS after learning to walk.  Over 3 1/2 YEARS after learning to sit alone.  He STILL slipped in the bathtub and ended up with his face under the water.  Thankfully, but 4, he had the strength to pull himself up, but I was right there next to him.  A BABY doesn't have that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

ok, before everyone continues to be judgmental, let me clarify.  My toddler is most often bathing with her older sister, and when they aren't bathing together her sister's eyes and ears are on her as well as mine.  I am never out of ear shot and constantly checking on her to see that she's ok.  Both of my girls are advanced for their ages and are often mistaken for being older than they actually are, so I do have a bit more trust in their abilities but at the same time recognize their vulnerability and would never do anything that would endanger them.  Also, turning your back on a child on a dock is not at all comparable to walking away for a few minutes when they're in a bathtub, I would never, EVER not be holding the hand of a small child near a large body of water, let alone turn my back for any reason whatsoever.  The way that I parent my children is neither dangerous nor neglectful, it is with much awareness and consciousness of both their abilities and limitations.  I also understand that we live in a different culture than those in TTC, I like the spirit behind the book, I'm not trying to be literal here.  I would never dream of taking my eyes and ears off of my babies like the women in the tribe do, because yes, there is an entire tribe of people with their eyes and ears open to all the children and it is an entirely different environment.  I'd also like to mention that I just spent the evening with relatives who have a toddler 6 weeks older than my youngest and I wouldn't turn my back on this particular child for even an instant, I wouldn't think it was safe at all in any environment in any circumstance, every child is different and this particular one is into everything and seems to have no sense of danger or ability to have forethought.... she's also still pretty uncoordinated and unsteady whereas my toddler has been holding her own head up since about 2 weeks and has developed fine motor control far superior to that of her peers and at a much earlier age than even that of her older sister.  I am not some uneducated moron who read TCC and got some wild ideas in my head that I try to implement in an entirely different society, I am a highly intelligent, educated, amazing, dedicated aware mother who read the book, loves the spirit behind it, and tries to consciously apply what works for my family and adapt that application to the individual needs and abilities of my very bright yet obviously uniquely individual children.  


 

And for the person that quoted automobile accidents...that's faulty logic.  The number of children who ride in cars is much much MUCH higher than the number of children left unattended in the bathtub or around pools/lakes/ponds.  I would like to see the proportions--the proportion of children who ride in a car on any given day who are injured/killed vs the number of children who are left unattended near water on any given day who are injured/killed.  The number of drownings is extremely high, per your own quote, especially since the majority of parents do NOT allow their infants around water unsupervised. So, it stands to reason that a child is far far far more likely to be killed if around water unsupervised than they are to be injured in an automobile accident.  The relative risk of death via an automobile accident is far less than the relative risk of death via drowning in a bathtub for an unsupervised infant.  And even if an infant was in a crash, a properly restrained infant will survive almost every crash.  An infant who is improperly restrained in a car crash will likely not survive.  An infant who slips under the water while a parent is at arms length will likely survive.  An infant who slips under the water and is under the water for even 30 seconds to a minute will likely not survive.

 

Add to it, often, ground transportation is a necessity, not a luxury.  There are justifiable reasons to transport an infant in a car.  There is not a single valid justifiable reason for leaving an infant unattended in a tub.  You can just avoid bathing a baby if you have something else to do.  There is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, more important for a parent to be doing during an infant's bath than to be in that room.  Seriously, posting on MDC, doing the laundry, drinking coffee, or doing the laundry are NOT worth an infant's life.


~Brandon Michael (11/23/03), Jocelyn Lily Nữ (2/4/07, adopted 5/28/07 from Vietnam), Amelia Rylie (1/14/09), & Ryland Josef William (9/7/05-9/7/05 @ 41 wks). 
AllyRae is offline  
#134 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Drummer's Wife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of Enchantment
Posts: 11,823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1 yr old's being left in the bathtub alone - even for *only* 5 minutes - and on another thread leaving a 5 yr old home alone... I have no idea how parents justify this type of negligence, much less feel comfortable posting about it on the Internet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ribboncesarean.gif cesareans happen.
Drummer's Wife is offline  
#135 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post




I'm hoping you meant "on" not "near"...I would totally agree with them needing life jackets ON water (as in they are on a boat)...That's just common sense..

 

Making a toddler wear a life jacket "near" water is ridiculous. So every time I take my kid to the beach where I watch her closely she should be wearing a life jacket by that logic..We live within 300 yards of a pond, I guess I should have had her in a life jacket outside in the yard??....There is such a thing as over kill and that is it. Just watch your kid and it will be a non-issue.

 

 

Well, at hte beach is one thing, as the water is shallow close to shore, and gets deeper - they won't be in over their heads the second they touch the water.  On a boat or dock I think they should be *wearing* a lifejacket - b/c if they fall off the dock you might not see it, but a lifejacket would keep them afloat and you can pull them out.  On a boat, they definitely need to be wearing one.  My ds will wear one at my parents dock for a good long time, but thats b/c he's a daredevil and would walk right off and I worry I might not be able to find him (I'm a former lifeguard, and a very good swimmer - but I worry about being able to see him in the lake)

 

ETA - I only frequent lifeguarded beaches, and if I feel like I'm not being as attentive as I need to be (b/c of chatting with friends, of talking on the phone) I will put my ds in a lifejacket, but no, I don't think that every trip to the beach requires a lifejacket.  When small kids who can't swim are on docks though, they need lifejackets.

 

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#136 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 12:25 PM
 
sweetpeppers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Medford, NJ
Posts: 847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I have no problem letting my son play outside by himself. I encourage it. He's 4 now, and I think it is an essential part of growing up. For a younger kid, I would make sure I was in hearing distance-for his comfort, not because I think there is something inherently dangerous about playing outside.


my toy shop on etsy.com: wooden baby keys, natural bathtub toys, wooden animals, little kitchens, waldorf dolls...also check out my blog about saving money, creating things, and natural living
sweetpeppers is offline  
#137 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 12:35 PM
 
Youngfrankenstein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

 My toddler is most often bathing with her older sister, and when they aren't bathing together her sister's eyes and ears are on her as well as mine.  I am never out of ear shot and constantly checking on her to see that she's ok.  Both of my girls are advanced for their ages and are often mistaken for being older than they actually are, so I do have a bit more trust in their abilities but at the same time recognize their vulnerability and would never do anything that would endanger them. 


This sounds like my dd.  Usually she is bathing with her older sister and I am still near them most of the time.  When she is bathing alone, she's 17 months, I'm mostly there but I will hang a towel up or grab her jammies for 60 seconds.

 

From your other post it seemed like she was in there alone and you were off doing other things. It sounds like you're normal! :)

 


Mama to 4. winner.jpghomebirth.jpg
Youngfrankenstein is offline  
#138 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 01:16 PM
 
lightinmyhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

YoungFrankenstein, I understand how my first post sounded, sometimes I don't proofread before posting.  No, I am not leaving her completely alone in the tub while I'm off tending to other things.  She almost always bathes with her 7 year old sister, and when she's alone in the tub I will only leave to get pj's or grab a towel or let the dogs outside to potty... and my house is not big enough for me to ever get very far no matter what other stuff I may be tending for a moment, so I am always within earshot and will run to any sounds of splashing or quiet.  I also did some calculating of time as our lives have been hectic since my youngest was born and we have moved several times and I was wrong on the age, it was closer to 18 months before I felt comfortable leaving her for a few moments and she was always in the tub with her sister then. I do appreciate you recognizing what I was trying to say...and not so immediately jumping to paranoid conclusions.  And Ally...ground transportation is a luxury and not a necessity as many, many families do not own or have access to vehicles and I myself was carless for 3 years and we walked/biked everywhere we needed to go and I felt that to be a much safer option for my family than riding in a car, though owning and using the car is mighty convenient.  And I understand that car accidents aren't always fatal, but I was in an auto accident as a teenager that left me in a coma for a few days and head injured and hospitalized for a month and recovering for many months to come.  I learned in that in an accident  death is not the only awful thing that can happen and I would never want either of my girls to have that experience or anything similar and any time we enter a vehicle we are taking that risk. 

lightinmyhands is offline  
#139 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 01:27 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post



 

Well, at hte beach is one thing, as the water is shallow close to shore, and gets deeper - they won't be in over their heads the second they touch the water.  On a boat or dock I think they should be *wearing* a lifejacket - b/c if they fall off the dock you might not see it, but a lifejacket would keep them afloat and you can pull them out.  On a boat, they definitely need to be wearing one.  My ds will wear one at my parents dock for a good long time, but thats b/c he's a daredevil and would walk right off and I worry I might not be able to find him (I'm a former lifeguard, and a very good swimmer - but I worry about being able to see him in the lake)

 

ETA - I only frequent lifeguarded beaches, and if I feel like I'm not being as attentive as I need to be (b/c of chatting with friends, of talking on the phone) I will put my ds in a lifejacket, but no, I don't think that every trip to the beach requires a lifejacket.  When small kids who can't swim are on docks though, they need lifejackets.

 


 

You do realize I basically said what you said about the boat?headscratch.gif...Absolutely need to have one a boat. Legally there needs to be at least one life jacket for every person on the boat although adults aren't required to wear them...

 

I grew up playing at my grandparents house with their pond and dock...I bring DD to visit and she is almost 2...I don't make her wear a life jacket for the 2 minutes we are standing on the dock. If she can't behave and not go too close to the edge then I either hold her hand or pick her up...I think a life jacket for just standing on a dock is overkill, but that is just me...

 

Hmm I never notice if there is a life guard at our beaches (although there often are) because I am hypervigilant in my focus on at the beach all the time. I spend most of the time obsessing about DD getting too much sun (she is super fair skinned, practically transluscent) and reapplying sun screen to her. I'm a former swimmer here too...Ligeguard at the town pool and swim team teen...It is one of my favorite activities.  

Ldavis24 is offline  
#140 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 01:37 PM
 
APToddlerMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

 Those of you that are so worried about a moment alone in the bathtub  for someone else's child that you don't even know, do you get in cars with your kids?

Unless you have some sort of unimaginably gifted 14 month old, the likes of which none of us have ever heard of even, I think it is fair to say that it isn't safe to leave a 14 month old in the bathtub.  Period. We don't have to know the child to know it is a terrible, foolish idea.

 

As a reference point, I know a family who lost a child about that same age to drowning in a *bucket*...barely filled...of water.  They hadn't even considered the potential risk, which I wouldn't have either had I not known what happened. 

 

Have you read the book The Glass Castle?  The parenting in that book sounds a lot like what you're advocating for.  It might be an interesting read.  Things didn't turn out that great for the kids.  I think they would have preferred some more supervision.  When you don't supervise your kids properly, bad things happen.  Sometimes, really bad things.  Like a 14 month old drowning in the bathtub. 

APToddlerMama is offline  
#141 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 02:05 PM
 
crunchy_mommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,501
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

ground transportation is a luxury and not a necessity as many, many families do not own or have access to vehicles and I myself was carless for 3 years and we walked/biked everywhere we needed to go and I felt that to be a much safer option for my family than riding in a car, though owning and using the car is mighty convenient.


I assume you've never lived in an area like I live... There are no stores within walking distance, biking is not an option because the stores are all on a big highway (not remotely safe for bikes, I tried once!), and there are no buses or anything... Having a car IS a necessity for me, if I ever want to get to work or buy food or clothes (nevermind any leisure activities that involve leaving the house)... Most people work 20-60 or more minutes (by car) from their home... Even if you want to go for a hike here, you need to get in the car and drive to the hiking trails! Maybe in many areas a car is a luxury, but here it truly is necessary.
TheSlingMama likes this.

Co-sleeping is really wonderful when your child actually SLEEPS!! familybed1.gif
crunchy_mommy is offline  
#142 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 02:14 PM
 
lightinmyhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

APT.... I did go back and say in my last post that I've had a hectic year and after some recalculations and thinking on where we were located at different times, turns out I was off on the age and she was closer to 18 months...and not completely alone, bathing with her older sister with my ears constantly on them and my eyes checking with much frequency.  I do know that in spite of being advanced for her age she is still young and needs a lot of supervision.  I have heard of lots of horrible things happening to kids that I would never, ever want to occur in my home.... and I do take many precautions to safeguard against dangers, even the most obscure.  For instance, to jump in on this beach/life jacket conversation, I don't take my two girls to the beach alone, I feel as if the ocean is just too big and too crowded for me to have the only pair of eyes on my them, even with lifeguards, so my DH and I take the girls to the beach together.  I also don't allow them to play with water unsupervised when they play outside together as there are buckets and kids do sometimes drown in them, but in my home, with my parenting ears on them at all times and me checking on them constantly, I feel my girls are fine in a bathtub for a few minutes together while I let the dogs outside to potty or clear the dinner table (which in my house is literally just a few paces from the bathroom).

P.S.  I don't think the glass castle is at all relevant as it seems like the parents in that book were suffering from some extreme mental imbalance, all the way down to the theft and the heavy drinking.  

lightinmyhands is offline  
#143 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 03:21 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: the Circle K
Posts: 6,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

APT.... I did go back and say in my last post that I've had a hectic year and after some recalculations and thinking on where we were located at different times, turns out I was off on the age and she was closer to 18 months...and not completely alone, bathing with her older sister with my ears constantly on them and my eyes checking with much frequency.  I do know that in spite of being advanced for her age she is still young and needs a lot of supervision.  I have heard of lots of horrible things happening to kids that I would never, ever want to occur in my home.... and I do take many precautions to safeguard against dangers, even the most obscure.  For instance, to jump in on this beach/life jacket conversation, I don't take my two girls to the beach alone, I feel as if the ocean is just too big and too crowded for me to have the only pair of eyes on my them, even with lifeguards, so my DH and I take the girls to the beach together.  I also don't allow them to play with water unsupervised when they play outside together as there are buckets and kids do sometimes drown in them, but in my home, with my parenting ears on them at all times and me checking on them constantly, I feel my girls are fine in a bathtub for a few minutes together while I let the dogs outside to potty or clear the dinner table (which in my house is literally just a few paces from the bathroom).

P.S.  I don't think the glass castle is at all relevant as it seems like the parents in that book were suffering from some extreme mental imbalance, all the way down to the theft and the heavy drinking.  



A member here almost lost her DD a couple of years ago because she did the exact same thing. She came back to the tub after letting her dog out and her DD was face down with her big brother still in the tub. After a while in the hospital, she came home and didn't seem to be suffering from long term effects but still. The baby almost died.

lalaland42 is offline  
#144 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 03:33 PM
 
AKislandgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,057
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Weather your child was 14 months or 18months makes NO DIFFERENCE! It is still extremely dangerous and neglectful.

Drummer's Wife likes this.

Sue, Mama to Fiona Aileen (2/1/09) and  Maeve Penelope (10/7/11) familybed2.gif cd.gif
 

AKislandgirl is offline  
#145 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 04:18 PM
 
AllyRae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6,391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

LOL, I live 25 minutes (driving) from the nearest city.  I live 20 minutes from the grocery store that carries the allergen free foods we have to eat.  We are an hour (driving) from the kids' pediatrician, and there is not a pediatrician in our town (not even a wal-mart or target or anything in our town).  We are 20 minutes from my son's school, a school with no bus transportation.  DH is 30 minutes from work.  The nearest hospital is a 20 minute drive.  We live in a town with no access to public transportation.  I'd say driving is not just a luxury unless you live in an area that, at minimum, has a bus system.  Oh, and our very rural subdivision has deed restrictions against horses, so we can't just up and ride our horse into town... ;-)

 

ETA:  And yeah, we're talking about babies, and not adults.  Had you been an infant in an infant carseat, the car accident might not have been as serious.  Teens can slip and hurt themselves in the tub too (and some have even died).  But those are freak accidents that are not the result of someone's lack of supervision (assuming you were wearing a seat belt).  We're talking about the risks that happen when the infant isn't properly restrained in the car or supervised in the bath.  Accidents can happen on a bike too, so it's not like you're risk free on the bike obviously.  But a freak accident when you took proper precautions is much rarer than an accident that happens when someone's not taking appropriate precautions.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

YoungFrankenstein, I understand how my first post sounded, sometimes I don't proofread before posting.  No, I am not leaving her completely alone in the tub while I'm off tending to other things.  She almost always bathes with her 7 year old sister, and when she's alone in the tub I will only leave to get pj's or grab a towel or let the dogs outside to potty... and my house is not big enough for me to ever get very far no matter what other stuff I may be tending for a moment, so I am always within earshot and will run to any sounds of splashing or quiet.  I also did some calculating of time as our lives have been hectic since my youngest was born and we have moved several times and I was wrong on the age, it was closer to 18 months before I felt comfortable leaving her for a few moments and she was always in the tub with her sister then. I do appreciate you recognizing what I was trying to say...and not so immediately jumping to paranoid conclusions.  And Ally...ground transportation is a luxury and not a necessity as many, many families do not own or have access to vehicles and I myself was carless for 3 years and we walked/biked everywhere we needed to go and I felt that to be a much safer option for my family than riding in a car, though owning and using the car is mighty convenient.  And I understand that car accidents aren't always fatal, but I was in an auto accident as a teenager that left me in a coma for a few days and head injured and hospitalized for a month and recovering for many months to come.  I learned in that in an accident  death is not the only awful thing that can happen and I would never want either of my girls to have that experience or anything similar and any time we enter a vehicle we are taking that risk. 



 


~Brandon Michael (11/23/03), Jocelyn Lily Nữ (2/4/07, adopted 5/28/07 from Vietnam), Amelia Rylie (1/14/09), & Ryland Josef William (9/7/05-9/7/05 @ 41 wks). 
AllyRae is offline  
#146 of 150 Old 05-01-2011, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
artekah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hi everyone, I'm the OP. Wow, this thread sure took an interesting turn!

I just wanted to thank you all for your responses and let you know I'm reading them all, albeit slowly from my phone.

Interesting that people jumped straight to my *dog* as being a risk factor, as that's something I hadn't even considered! With my particular toddler, my particular dog and situation I definitely feel the dog's presence in my back yard only made things safer, because I know he would instantly alert me to any danger, be it a person walking into the yard, another animal, or what have you.

My dog has never bitten or even threatened to bite any person or any other dog, ever. He barks a lot but otherwise is almost comically timid. The only time I can imagine him biting would be (possibly) to defend my DS. He's not an old or sick dog (he's 2) and he's ridiculously tolerant. On top of that my DS is really good about not pestering him, especially when he's outside because he's busy exploring!

So yes, while I acknowledge the possibility of him biting my DS, I'd say it's about as likely as a random person on the street biting my DS. Or even less likely, really.

However, what a PP mentioned about the danger of "friendly fire" did give me food for thought. I can see how it would be possible for the dog to knock him over or something while playing. So I am going to be cautious about that.

I'm not in denial about dogs. I was bitten by a dog as a child. I used to have a dog who, while she was a total sweetie, I would *never* trust her alone with a small child. I do think I know my child and dog well enough to trust the situation, especially when I'm within earshot, can walk to the window and see them at any time, and could get out the door literally within 30 seconds! Thanks to those who gave me the benefit of the doubt!

It sounds like aside from the dog issue, most people think sending DS out to play is fine, but obviously it would depend on the particular child and the setup of the particular yard, which is pretty much what I was thinking. So thanks!

PS. As for the gate latch issue, not really a concern for us at this point. Our guy would have to be at least a foot taller to reach that, and it's always locked, and he doesn't show any interest in latches yet. For him it's more about finding cool rocks to show me. lol.gif
artekah is offline  
#147 of 150 Old 05-02-2011, 05:41 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

good for you op...our dog did totally send dd flying once when she was chasing a ball but that was us throwing her a ball and dd ran in the way... when it is just dog and dd it is as you said...dd is exploring, the dog laying in the sun catching some rays, very mellow.

Ldavis24 is offline  
#148 of 150 Old 05-02-2011, 05:12 PM
 
Thandiwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Where the wild things are...
Posts: 2,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)



Quote:

Originally Posted by lightinmyhands View Post

but driving your child around in a car is also a very risky activity and I don't doubt that most if not all of you own vehicles and probably cell phones.... who talks on the phone while driving with their kids in the car? sends a text message? navigates using googlemaps?  


I own a vehicle and a cell phone.  There have been times I have talked on the phone while traveling (extremely dangerous), but I don't ever EVER text while driving (also extremely dangerous).

 

But here's the problem with your counter-attack and the biggest difference with the bath tub discussion: No one is sitting here saying it is safe to talk or text on the phone and drive. 


 

joy.gif Wife to  geek.gif,  mama to  reading.gif,   guitar.gif, fly-by-nursing1.gif, and thumbsuck.gif - bonus mommy to  loveeyes.gif!  homebirth.jpghomeschool.gifnovaxnocirc.gif

Thandiwe is offline  
#149 of 150 Old 05-02-2011, 05:33 PM
 
lightinmyhands's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


talking and texting while driving was only one of my points.... car accidents happen all the time, even without the involvement of cell phones.  I was involved in a pretty serious car accident as a teenager myself, and know first hand the dangers of motor vehicles.  I choose to drive my children places in a car because it is ultimately very convenient, this is a choice I as a parent make after weighing the potential risks/benefits.  just food for thought... 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thandiwe View Post



Quote:


I own a vehicle and a cell phone.  There have been times I have talked on the phone while traveling (extremely dangerous), but I don't ever EVER text while driving (also extremely dangerous).

 

But here's the problem with your counter-attack and the biggest difference with the bath tub discussion: No one is sitting here saying it is safe to talk or text on the phone and drive. 

 

 

 

 



 

lightinmyhands is offline  
#150 of 150 Old 05-29-2011, 09:45 PM
 
lemonapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

As to the original question, Absolutely. I wish we had the set-up you described! We move constantly, and haven't had a yard in over a year...what I wouldn't give!! When I was growing up, we always had a huge fenced in backyard, and my brother and I spent nearly all our waking ours outside without our parents..some of the best memories of my childhood! 

 

As to the bathtub issue...I'm sort of surprised at the responses.

 

I DO think that cars are more dangerous than leaving a child unattended for a minute or two in the bathtub. I also DO think that too many people placate themselves on the danger of cars by convincing themselves that they MUST live in their current residence that seemingly REQUIRES the use of a car. For the record, we are car-less and will probably remain so for the next few years. Because we are aware of this, we choose to live in areas where public transportation will meet our needs as a family. I realize that not everyone can up and leave their homes and jobs, but that doesn't make driving in a car Safer than it actually is. 

 

Now, back to the bathtub. What about the children...young children...who have been taught water safety? What about the toddlers who know to hold their breath under water...and demonstrate said skill often? What about the young children who know how to SWIM? And, really, just what about the children who are just plain CAPABLE of bathing for a few minutes by themselves while a parent or caretaker keeps an ear out...or checks in every few minutes? 

 

When we lived in Hawaii, there were four young toddlers...all around the age of 2 who knew how to swim. They wore floaties, and they went into the water as soon as they arrived at the beach...even though that meant they swam without their parents for a few minutes...and I mean, far out in the water. It was Lanikai beach...very calm...there parents were able swimmers and watching the entire time. The children knew water safety skills. I would imagine that those children were capable of bathing unattended in their bathtubs. And..probably capable well before the age of 2. 

 

My son learned a bit of swimming skill from these children and their parents, and would often 'swim' far out in the water wearing just floaties while I swam nearby. i felt no danger in those instances. 

 

My son (nearly 2.5) bathes most often wth my husband. But, infrequently, he asks to bath ALONE. I don't have a single bit of reservation about it. I know the capabilities of my child,and I trust him in the bath. I do NOT think that the bath is any more of a danger to him than a shower is to me...or a bath in a larger tub. To tell the truth, I've allowed him to bathe alone for a very long time exactly because I DO know my child and the bathtub is really the least of my concerns. 

 

Idk, you can't just apply a blanket age restriction to things. It's a major problem in our society, and I hate to see it. You can't possibly imagine a child under the age of 4 (as I think has been mentioned) bathing by themselves? Seriously? All it takes is ONE child who is able to do that safely for the entire age thing to just not apply. It's a thing to be decided family by family child by child. And, to get hysterical about it...and as judgemental as has been illustrated by this thread is awful!

 

 


My baby is a TODDLER?!!! 12-28-08       toddler.giffamilybed1.gifnovaxnocirc.gifblogging.jpg
lemonapple is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off