3 years old next week and still talking gibberish - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 50 Old 05-11-2012, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Let me start with she hears just fine. In fact she hears way too well when I'm trying to sneak around. She knows when the fridge is opened, she knows when I open an animal cage. She hears REALLY well. She understands really well. I can explain to her and she can follow instruction. She has a handful of words she uses regularly, but when it comes to teaching her new words and trying to get her to repeat things her response is "No." Teaching her to say please was awful. When she is hungry she says eat and repeats it getting angrier if I don't immediately go help her find food or if I start asking her specifically what she wants "crackers, strawberries, etc" She wants me to go into the kitchen so she can point out what she wants. She is getting frustrated at her lack of ability to communicate. I need some new methods to help her communicate. We tried signing when she was smaller, but she never really cared for it. there were only 3-4 signs she ever used. She will talk for two minutes straight in her own language and sometimes I'm pretty sure she is speaking english, sometimes I can even figure out the sentence she says! But it's so hard for anyone else to understand her. DH didn't really start talking till 3 so I haven't been that worried about it, but here we are she's three. My other two started talking in full sentences WAY early and I've always heard it's not unusual the more you have for them to talk later cause siblings talk for them.

 

She does sing jingle bells :p Hence why I'm really not thinking it's a developmental problem more that I need some new methods to help her cause the methods I used with my other two aren't working with her. Thanks


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#2 of 50 Old 05-11-2012, 05:21 PM
 
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That would worry me. What does your pediatrican say?
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#3 of 50 Old 05-11-2012, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Once again, not worried, looking for other tips and tricks other than pointing out everything and saying the word associated with it.


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#4 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 12:24 PM
 
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Picture cards?

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#5 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 06:35 PM
 
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Once again, not worried, looking for other tips and tricks other than pointing out everything and saying the word associated with it.

 

I'm sorry, but I think you should be worried. What your daughter is doing is outside the bounds of typical development. She's not learning words and she has real trouble articulating. She's getting frustrated and what you're doing isn't helping.

 

She needs to be evaluated by a professional speech-language pathologist. You  need to figure out what's causing her not to be able to speak. It could be hearing even if she can hear some things. Speech is in a certain frequency range and if she has trouble hearing in that range, language will be hard. It could be tongue tie, mouth shape, a neurological issue, or something like apraxia. How you help your child will depend on what the issue is, and sometimes it takes a while to figure it out.

 

You need more than "tips and tricks" . You need to know WHICH tips and tricks to work on. Typically developing children don't need to have their parent teach them explicitly. The fact that your daughter does, the fact that it's hard for her (which is why she says "no") screams that there's something more going on. If she could do it with what you're doing, she would. She can't, so it's time for outside help. For kids this age that see a speech-language pathologist, the SLP works with them for a bit every week, and then you'll get stuff to work on at home. Every decent SLP that I know works with the parents.


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#6 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, sorry let me start over a little bit, when I say handful I would say there are 50 words or so she says regularly, there are a half a dozen or so phrases she uses regularly. She speaks, but when she doesn't know what to say she resorts to gibberish and our methods of trying to teach her the words she is looking for aren't working. That is why I was reluctant to post anything on this cause I figured this was the reaction I'd get! I am not worried, I feel like she is functioning perfectly normal for her. I believe forcing children into a mold is wrong, she can progress at her pace. If I were concerned about where she was I would consult a specialist, but I am not. I am simply looking for alternative ideas in teaching words. I am the one here with my child who witnesses this behavior day in, day out, and feel plenty confident to say she is just stubborn and thinks not saying the word I am asking for is a game especially the way she giggles and laughs at me while I am saying the word repeatedly and she continues to say no. The times she gets frustrated is when it has to do with food or abstract things like please. She starts out giggling and laughing about me trying to get her to say it, then when I refuse to give her said object she throws a fit, then eventually relents and says please.

 

Thanks cyclamen :) We have a bunch of books that are kinda the same thing a few objects w/ the word on each page, but maybe cards would be better since there is only one object per card.


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#7 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 08:55 PM
 
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Okay, sorry let me start over a little bit, when I say handful I would say there are 50 words or so she says regularly, there are a half a dozen or so phrases she uses regularly. She speaks, but when she doesn't know what to say she resorts to gibberish and our methods of trying to teach her the words she is looking for aren't working. That is why I was reluctant to post anything on this cause I figured this was the reaction I'd get! I am not worried, I feel like she is functioning perfectly normal for her. I believe forcing children into a mold is wrong, she can progress at her pace. If I were concerned about where she was I would consult a specialist, but I am not. I am simply looking for alternative ideas in teaching words. I am the one here with my child who witnesses this behavior day in, day out, and feel plenty confident to say she is just stubborn and thinks not saying the word I am asking for is a game especially the way she giggles and laughs at me while I am saying the word repeatedly and she continues to say no. The times she gets frustrated is when it has to do with food or abstract things like please. She starts out giggling and laughing about me trying to get her to say it, then when I refuse to give her said object she throws a fit, then eventually relents and says please.

 

Thanks cyclamen :) We have a bunch of books that are kinda the same thing a few objects w/ the word on each page, but maybe cards would be better since there is only one object per card.

 

My DS was a lot like this, and honestly, it seemed like he just didn't want to. And he didn't, until we backed off. I stopped trying to come up with ways to get him to say things, and he just started saying them. That was when I jumped on opportunity.. the biggest part of teaching my DS words has been positive reinforcement when he started saying them. I've never been able to figure out WHAT made him start talking, he just did. He had about 25 words at 2.5 y/o. At that time, we communicated mostly by pointing. And gestures, and him taking me to the things he wanted, etc. And then woke up one day around 31 months talking. I was really surprised to find out just how many names of things he knew (but had never said). But with the talking came a lot of gibberish. Since then, he has expanded his vocabulary only when he seems to want to, and I just affirm that what he's saying is correct. "Uniform?" "Yes! That is Daddy's uniform. Awesome. I didn't know you knew that word." Same with pronunciation improvements... when he switched from calling it a "pen-pen" to "penny"... "A penny? Very good. You say that word just like a grown up!" Just try to find ways to point out the positive aspects her speech brings to your life. If she asks you for an apple, tell her how easy it is for you to get her the things she wants when she tells you with her words. I try not to dwell on it, only acknowledge language when I notice new words and sounds. We visited family last weekend and they were all reporting to me that they can really understand everything my DS says now (he is 3 years, 9 months) which is an incredible improvement from just 6 months ago when mostly DH & I were the ones who knew what he was saying. I too believe that every child just develops differently. DS didn't speak really at all, as of last February. Now the only sounds he doesn't make very well are "f" and "s" which are very common in young children, and the way he talks... dizzy.gifblahblah.gif goes on and on and on and on all day. 

 

 

And side note, I'm not disregarding the value of SLP's, I just think there is a wide variety of normal, especially before a child reaches school age. I felt a SLP could possibly have helped DS' speech but would have heightened his anxiety (and therefore probably wouldn't have helped his speech all that much) and wasn't worth the trade off at such an early age. 


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#8 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 10:17 PM
 
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Okay, sorry let me start over a little bit, when I say handful I would say there are 50 words or so she says regularly, there are a half a dozen or so phrases she uses regularly. She speaks, but when she doesn't know what to say she resorts to gibberish and our methods of trying to teach her the words she is looking for aren't working. That is why I was reluctant to post anything on this cause I figured this was the reaction I'd get! I am not worried, I feel like she is functioning perfectly normal for her. I believe forcing children into a mold is wrong, she can progress at her pace. If I were concerned about where she was I would consult a specialist, but I am not. I am simply looking for alternative ideas in teaching words. I am the one here with my child who witnesses this behavior day in, day out, and feel plenty confident to say she is just stubborn and thinks not saying the word I am asking for is a game especially the way she giggles and laughs at me while I am saying the word repeatedly and she continues to say no. The times she gets frustrated is when it has to do with food or abstract things like please. She starts out giggling and laughing about me trying to get her to say it, then when I refuse to give her said object she throws a fit, then eventually relents and says please.

 

Thanks cyclamen :) We have a bunch of books that are kinda the same thing a few objects w/ the word on each page, but maybe cards would be better since there is only one object per card.

 

How is getting therapy to help reduce her frustration "forcing her into a mold"? I'll repeat: Children who can talk will talk.  Both giggling and saying 'no' can be signs of avoidance. What the heck does "normal for her" mean? Our son, when he was 5, couldn't pedal a tricycle, couldn't balance, couldn't hold a pencil and refused to walk barefoot anywhere. This was 'normal for him'. It was also impacting his life. He couldn't play with the other kids like he wanted to. He wasn't frustrated so much as he was avoiding social contact. Occupational therapy helped him in ways that I could never imagine. Instead of being afraid to go outdoors in the summer, he enjoyed summer. He went from a child with no friends to a child with a few friends. He's an introvert. He's never going to have more than a couple friends. I'm not forcing him into social interactions, I made it possible for him to engage with the children he wants to. I'm not one to say "oh this isn't normal, better start therapy". But when something that's outside the bounds of typical development starts to induce frustration, it's time for help.

 

A 3 year old with 50 words and a few phrases is behind. That's about what a typical 18 month old is doing. As she gets older, she's going to want to communicate with other children. They have no patience for a child they can't understand. She's not going to be able to play pretend games with kids at the playground. She's not going to be able to negotiate roles. At 2, this is no big deal. At 3, it starts to become one. If she reaches 4 and she's talking like a 2 year old, how is that going to impact her?

 

I'm going to bow out now because you clearly don't want this message. But I'm putting it here for others who might read.


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#9 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 10:30 PM
 
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I'm sorry this isn't what you want to hear, but I completely agree with Lynn.  My daughter is the same age as yours and neither she nor any of her friends speak like you are talking about.  I would be very concerned if she was that far behind normal.  I know that there is a huge range of "normal", but delays often don't just resolve themselves.

 

Please consider talking to her pediatrician and/or getting a speech evaluation.  What's to lose by doing so?  I had a speech evaluation for my son when he was 3 because he was behind his peers.  By the time the evaluation sessions were completed (over a couple of months), he had a language explosion and was caught up.  I was still glad I went through the process.  And he was a much better speaker than how you are describing your daughter.

 

She is frustrated.  Pointing instead of using words, speaking gibberish, being unintelligible are things that are making your life and hers more difficult.  It sounds like it's time for professional help.


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#10 of 50 Old 05-12-2012, 11:01 PM
 
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I think identifying the source of her problem is the first step.

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#11 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 05:48 AM
 
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Just for comparison's sake (and I know we should never compare kids), DS2 went through speech therapy. He had about 50 words and a handful of sentences at 24 months, and that was still considered delayed. At 31 months now, he's talking ... and talking ... and talking. He probably has a vocab of 500+ words (I would guess likely more, but it's hard to keep track), has 5-word complex sentences, can pronounce most sounds, and is pretty intelligible. Guess what? He's still a tad behind his peers mostly because he doesn't always take the time to use words when he needs to communicate and will revert to signing, screaming, pointing.... He can and should talk, but won't always. All his little 2.5 y-o friends talk way more. We've opted to not do speech therapy (also we didn't qualify anymore when he was last assessed and found to not be delayed enough), but I am keeping a close eye on his progress. Progress is key.

 

Your DD, at 3, is where my DS was at 2, and he was delayed. I'd be concerned, if not worried. Seeking out help will not hurt. If it doesn't help, you can always stop.

 

As for tips and tricks, I found that ''trying to help'' was having the opposite effect on my DS. The more I tried to get him to communicate, the more frustrated he got (look for my previous posts on this). What worked for us was seeking help to make sure there were no underlying issues (I was concerned about apraxia because he seemed unable to talk, not so much autism but I still inquired about the possibility), and once we knew he was likely ok developmentally, we just kinda sat back and watched him take his sweet time. Again, progress is what you want, even if it comes slowly.

 

Good luck!

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#12 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My DS was a lot like this, and honestly, it seemed like he just didn't want to. And he didn't, until we backed off. I stopped trying to come up with ways to get him to say things, and he just started saying them. That was when I jumped on opportunity.. the biggest part of teaching my DS words has been positive reinforcement when he started saying them. I've never been able to figure out WHAT made him start talking, he just did. He had about 25 words at 2.5 y/o. At that time, we communicated mostly by pointing. And gestures, and him taking me to the things he wanted, etc. And then woke up one day around 31 months talking. I was really surprised to find out just how many names of things he knew (but had never said). But with the talking came a lot of gibberish. Since then, he has expanded his vocabulary only when he seems to want to, and I just affirm that what he's saying is correct. "Uniform?" "Yes! That is Daddy's uniform. Awesome. I didn't know you knew that word." Same with pronunciation improvements... when he switched from calling it a "pen-pen" to "penny"... "A penny? Very good. You say that word just like a grown up!" Just try to find ways to point out the positive aspects her speech brings to your life. If she asks you for an apple, tell her how easy it is for you to get her the things she wants when she tells you with her words. I try not to dwell on it, only acknowledge language when I notice new words and sounds. We visited family last weekend and they were all reporting to me that they can really understand everything my DS says now (he is 3 years, 9 months) which is an incredible improvement from just 6 months ago when mostly DH & I were the ones who knew what he was saying. I too believe that every child just develops differently. DS didn't speak really at all, as of last February. Now the only sounds he doesn't make very well are "f" and "s" which are very common in young children, and the way he talks... dizzy.gifblahblah.gif goes on and on and on and on all day. 

 

 

And side note, I'm not disregarding the value of SLP's, I just think there is a wide variety of normal, especially before a child reaches school age. I felt a SLP could possibly have helped DS' speech but would have heightened his anxiety (and therefore probably wouldn't have helped his speech all that much) and wasn't worth the trade off at such an early age. 

 

Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for. Since we moved and my working with her went to the back burner she has been saying more. The singing Jingle Bells thing just started a month ago cause sisters were singing it. I hadn't really put those two things together till you posted this. She's added a bunch of words since we moved and maybe that's exactly why cause I'm not trying so hard. She has picked up all the recent words from her sisters.

 

MDC used to be a place where people could come looking for alternatives, that was after all the point of MDC for those that are looking outside the mainstream for answers. If my mama instincts were going off that something was wrong, then I would look for a mainstream answer. She just came up to me and asked "milk chocolate please." That's the first time she's ever asked me that, usually she just says milk repeatedly till I get up. She is progressing it's not like she has been at a stand still since a year and a half. She gets along fine with her peers, dispite not talking much. Playdates, gymnastics, etc she is able to get along fine. Mostly because she is a listener and a watcher, she is a quiet kid and I'm fine with that! MIL repeatedly tells me DH didn't give her a spontaneous sentence till he was 4 and he is fine, quiet, but fine. Where we both are getting frustrated is in the food dept. I just wish she would tell me what she wants to eat instead of me playing 20 questions with her. I don't want to put my kid through a bunch of unnecessary interventions. The ped wanted to put DD2 through testing because she wouldn't "perform" for her and there were some things she wanted her to do that I knew she couldn't. She's fine and I knew that then. I can tell you right now DD3 is not going to perform it's not in her personality.

 

So for anyone else wanting to suggest testing, thanks, but your post is not necessary. I think anyone who comes across this thread in the future has enough posts on that to work with. For anyone else with anecdotes or suggestions on alternative ways of teaching words your posts are greatly appreciated, thanks!

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#13 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just for comparison's sake (and I know we should never compare kids), DS2 went through speech therapy. He had about 50 words and a handful of sentences at 24 months, and that was still considered delayed. At 31 months now, he's talking ... and talking ... and talking. He probably has a vocab of 500+ words (I would guess likely more, but it's hard to keep track), has 5-word complex sentences, can pronounce most sounds, and is pretty intelligible. Guess what? He's still a tad behind his peers mostly because he doesn't always take the time to use words when he needs to communicate and will revert to signing, screaming, pointing.... He can and should talk, but won't always. All his little 2.5 y-o friends talk way more. We've opted to not do speech therapy (also we didn't qualify anymore when he was last assessed and found to not be delayed enough), but I am keeping a close eye on his progress. Progress is key.

 

Your DD, at 3, is where my DS was at 2, and he was delayed. I'd be concerned, if not worried. Seeking out help will not hurt. If it doesn't help, you can always stop.

 

As for tips and tricks, I found that ''trying to help'' was having the opposite effect on my DS. The more I tried to get him to communicate, the more frustrated he got (look for my previous posts on this). What worked for us was seeking help to make sure there were no underlying issues (I was concerned about apraxia because he seemed unable to talk, not so much autism but I still inquired about the possibility), and once we knew he was likely ok developmentally, we just kinda sat back and watched him take his sweet time. Again, progress is what you want, even if it comes slowly.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the post, this is what I'm interested in hearing, people with personal experiences, not just people chiming in because they can.


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#14 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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How is getting therapy to help reduce her frustration "forcing her into a mold"? I'll repeat: Children who can talk will talk.  Both giggling and saying 'no' can be signs of avoidance. What the heck does "normal for her" mean? Our son, when he was 5, couldn't pedal a tricycle, couldn't balance, couldn't hold a pencil and refused to walk barefoot anywhere. This was 'normal for him'. It was also impacting his life. He couldn't play with the other kids like he wanted to. He wasn't frustrated so much as he was avoiding social contact. Occupational therapy helped him in ways that I could never imagine. Instead of being afraid to go outdoors in the summer, he enjoyed summer. He went from a child with no friends to a child with a few friends. He's an introvert. He's never going to have more than a couple friends. I'm not forcing him into social interactions, I made it possible for him to engage with the children he wants to. I'm not one to say "oh this isn't normal, better start therapy". But when something that's outside the bounds of typical development starts to induce frustration, it's time for help.

 

A 3 year old with 50 words and a few phrases is behind. That's about what a typical 18 month old is doing. As she gets older, she's going to want to communicate with other children. They have no patience for a child they can't understand. She's not going to be able to play pretend games with kids at the playground. She's not going to be able to negotiate roles. At 2, this is no big deal. At 3, it starts to become one. If she reaches 4 and she's talking like a 2 year old, how is that going to impact her?

 

I'm going to bow out now because you clearly don't want this message. But I'm putting it here for others who might read.

 

Look, I'm sorry your kid has developemental problems, but that's no reason for you to be rude and yes you are saying "it's not normal, better start therapy." Thank you for bowing out because I think you're answers are better put on a thread that is more reflective of your child's experiences because that is no where near what I am experiencing with mine.


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#15 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 06:56 AM
 
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edit :)

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#16 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 08:09 AM
 
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Well, for future posters then, I want to say that ds' SLP (he was 7 yo though) wasn't an ordeal smile.gif, and it didn't involve being in a hospital gown or needles. I think that people also tend to get hung-up on the word "specialist"; that the issue they are having isn't significant enough for a "specialist" -- but they just have a lot of knowledge about particular area, which can save you time and fustration. Evaluations for children involve a lot of play, the younger the child the more play involved. For us, just about the sweetest lady I ever met came to our house once a week to work on ds' two articulation issues and pragmatics last summer (ds misses her love.gif); ds had previously had an evaluation elsewhere. One thing the SLP did did was to give pictures with words on it and ds would paint (because he didn't want to use crayonswink1.gif) the pictures as they talked through the words. She also played board games with him to help with social reciprocity and pragmatics.

 

*You could always use an SLP just as consult service for yourself and not to actually work with your dd.*  If you had one who could come to your house around a meal time she may be able to observe the issue you are having without interacting with your dd. However, sometimes children are willing to learn from others what they won't from us shrug.gif.

 

On the topic of evaluations and "performing"--I don't think your pediatrician is a good representation of how it might go with an SLP. Peds come with their own "baggage" to a child, are time crunched, and are not speech specialists. We had an OT come to our home to evaluated ds when he was 6yo. Ds wasn't particularly interested in her at first so she just sat with me on the couch and we discussed my concerns about ds while ds and dd (4yo) played with legos on the floor. From time to time she would ask ds a question, or ask him to write something for her; she listened to him talk about legos and starwars, and observed how he interacted with dd and myself. I wondered how much she could really understand that way but her report showed an excellent understanding of ds. 

 

Having been through a few evaluations, I can say that very good evaluators can usually get what they need with what the child is willing to offer and they back off if the child is uncomfortable.

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#17 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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cyclamen - thanks for your response (I got to read it in my email before you changed it).

 

Emme - thanks, maybe contacting one would be a good idea to get some pointers. One of my sisters used a speech therapist for two of her girls, they had a tongue problem. Surely they would know someone that could give me some pointers.

 

It's not a label that I am worried about, but an unnecessary label. The ped we went to with DD2 was very adament about how DD2 was behind and something was very wrong, which was absolute crap. DD3 is a very happy, very engaging kid, but what I am worried about is she is not like that with everyone. It has taken her three months to come around to the gymnastics teacher where she would have anything to do with her without me right beside her and she still wants me within sight most of the time. She is very attached to me and doesn't like new adults. She is great with family members and loves all the kids she meets but detests new adults. I am concerned about an over reaching diagnosis. I have two sisters who used to be teachers and tons of experience with young children. They are not concerned because she is spot on in every other way, they agree she talks when she wants to, but mostly she just doesn't want to.


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#18 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 10:12 AM
 
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For the OP some suggestions:

1. Two books have been HUGE for helping me get our DS (now 3.4) talking more.  "Play To Talk" and "It Takes Two To Talk" are great resources that have specific details about games and interactive styles.  The things they suggest have made a big difference for DS and have encouraged a burst of language.  Plus they are fun :) 

 

2. Pictures are great.  For our DS we have made a series of small notebooks with 4 pictures per page.  So, for example, we have a food book and I have taken pictures of the actual foods he eats.  So now, when he wants something to eat he can go get the food book and then point to what he wants (though to be fair he basically points to ice cream and only grudgingly points to something on the "lunch" pages when I refuse to give him what he really wants.)  I've done this with my iPhone, I just take a photo with the phone then it gets automatically sent to my cloud and i get it on the computer.  I use iPhoto and make a 4 per-page image, label then with the right word, print and use a quick laminating sheet to laminate it.  Hole punch and pop it into the notebook.  We've also got a schedule book with activities (park, pool, doctors, etc) which I use to show him where we are going or for him to pick where he wants to go when that makes sense.  We also have a book/video one that allows him to pick what book he wants me to read him.  These have helped his vocabulary grow leaps and bounds because I always say the word for what he points to.  So he sees the picture, hears the word and sees it written.  I think having photos of the real item we see in our daily lives has been so much better than some abstract line drawing of things.

 

3. Recasting - this is a technique where you basically follow the child's lead to help them expand their expressive language.  So for example, if you DD says "car!" while you are playing, you would repeat "car" then say "car go!".  Then wait and see what she says next.  The general rule is to repeat then add one more word than they say, then give them a chance to respond with something.  So when she starts using 2 words you would repeat those 2 words then respond with 3, etc.  It can also be used when she is mispronouncing something.  Rather than correct her, just recast the word correctly.  So if she said "caaaa" for car, then you would just say "car! car go!" so she hears it said properly.  Its simple though for me the hard part has always been waiting with an expectant look on my face.  I tend to "over" talk and not really wait in silence for a little while giving DS the chance to verbalize something to me.

 

Regarding the testing issue.  I think this sooooo complex.  Our son is language delayed and we got very worried when he was about 18 months and still wasn't talking.  Between 18 months and now we have been on an emotional roller coaster trying to figure out what is causing his delays.  That there are a large number of children who simply talk late is not something any specialist we saw told us.  That there are a million reasons for someone to talk late is also not something we were told. Instead, literally every specialist we saw told us DS is autistic we went a little crazy with a special ed preschool, therapies, etc.  Of course we were trying to figure out the root cause of his inability to talk.  We now know he has a fairly severe language disorder but has no other delays and is not on the spectrum. Looking back I have learned a number of things.  1. Before a child is 3 or 4 it is basically impossible to really know what is going on.  There can be clues, but when kids are so neurologically immature there are many things going on and even the world's expert can't really tell you the root cause.  2. Early intervention can make a huge difference for children.  BUT for children with moderate/mild delays, parents can in be just as good if not better therapists for their children with the right training and approach.  Working with a professional might make things more along more quickly, but children without a true disorder (kids who are really just "delayed") with catch up on their own without intervention from a specialist.

 

I often wonder if the round after round of evaluations, therapies, and my own incredibly high stress level really were the best thing for DS.  Looking back, I suspect that DS would be just as far along if not father if I had calmed down, did some research, learned how to work with his delay, and just spent all the time he was getting evaluated and therapies playing with him instead.  There is very good data to support the notion that parents can be just as good if not better therapists for their language delayed children (see Hanen training info for some of this data). 

 

Of course, it can be notoriously difficult to distinguish between a delay and a disorder - though one very good indicator of a simple delay is a parent or close relative who was also a "late talker".  So I guess I would personally have my child checked out if they were having expressive delays at 3.  In the absence of a receptive language delay and no other developmental problems, I would suspect verbal apraxia.  But there is a reason that children aren't even evaluated for developmental delays until 3 or 4 in many parts of the world, and the push for early intervention is a main reason why childhood developmental disorders are being diagnosed at much higher rates.  It used to be that children weren't out in the world until 5 or 6 and by then the vast majority of kids with delays (and NOT disorders) had just caught up.  If you feel confident that you child is just behind, then letting them grow up a bit before throwing them into the world of therapy and labels is your choice and I'm not willing to judge someone for listening to their gut about their own child.  Its not the road I would take, but I trust parents to know their children!

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#19 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks fiz! Thank you so much for telling me about those books, I'll go get them off Amazon right now! I really like the recasting idea I think that's something she would enjoy, I do something kind of like this, but I think I need to simplify like your example.

 

Ah! Is there a better place to find "it takes two to talk" ? $30-80 on amazon!


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#20 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fizgig View Post

 
For the OP some suggestions:

1. Two books have been HUGE for helping me get our DS (now 3.4) talking more.  "Play To Talk" and "It Takes Two To Talk" are great resources that have specific details about games and interactive styles.  The things they suggest have made a big difference for DS and have encouraged a burst of language.  Plus they are fun :) 

 

2. Pictures are great.  For our DS we have made a series of small notebooks with 4 pictures per page.  So, for example, we have a food book and I have taken pictures of the actual foods he eats.  So now, when he wants something to eat he can go get the food book and then point to what he wants (though to be fair he basically points to ice cream and only grudgingly points to something on the "lunch" pages when I refuse to give him what he really wants.)  I've done this with my iPhone, I just take a photo with the phone then it gets automatically sent to my cloud and i get it on the computer.  I use iPhoto and make a 4 per-page image, label then with the right word, print and use a quick laminating sheet to laminate it.  Hole punch and pop it into the notebook.  We've also got a schedule book with activities (park, pool, doctors, etc) which I use to show him where we are going or for him to pick where he wants to go when that makes sense.  We also have a book/video one that allows him to pick what book he wants me to read him.  These have helped his vocabulary grow leaps and bounds because I always say the word for what he points to.  So he sees the picture, hears the word and sees it written.  I think having photos of the real item we see in our daily lives has been so much better than some abstract line drawing of things.

 

3. Recasting - this is a technique where you basically follow the child's lead to help them expand their expressive language.  So for example, if you DD says "car!" while you are playing, you would repeat "car" then say "car go!".  Then wait and see what she says next.  The general rule is to repeat then add one more word than they say, then give them a chance to respond with something.  So when she starts using 2 words you would repeat those 2 words then respond with 3, etc.  It can also be used when she is mispronouncing something.  Rather than correct her, just recast the word correctly.  So if she said "caaaa" for car, then you would just say "car! car go!" so she hears it said properly.  Its simple though for me the hard part has always been waiting with an expectant look on my face.  I tend to "over" talk and not really wait in silence for a little while giving DS the chance to verbalize something to me.

 

Regarding the testing issue.  I think this sooooo complex.  Our son is language delayed and we got very worried when he was about 18 months and still wasn't talking.  Between 18 months and now we have been on an emotional roller coaster trying to figure out what is causing his delays.  That there are a large number of children who simply talk late is not something any specialist we saw told us.  That there are a million reasons for someone to talk late is also not something we were told. Instead, literally every specialist we saw told us DS is autistic we went a little crazy with a special ed preschool, therapies, etc.  Of course we were trying to figure out the root cause of his inability to talk.  We now know he has a fairly severe language disorder but has no other delays and is not on the spectrum. Looking back I have learned a number of things.  1. Before a child is 3 or 4 it is basically impossible to really know what is going on.  There can be clues, but when kids are so neurologically immature there are many things going on and even the world's expert can't really tell you the root cause.  2. Early intervention can make a huge difference for children.  BUT for children with moderate/mild delays, parents can in be just as good if not better therapists for their children with the right training and approach.  Working with a professional might make things more along more quickly, but children without a true disorder (kids who are really just "delayed") with catch up on their own without intervention from a specialist.

 

I often wonder if the round after round of evaluations, therapies, and my own incredibly high stress level really were the best thing for DS.  Looking back, I suspect that DS would be just as far along if not father if I had calmed down, did some research, learned how to work with his delay, and just spent all the time he was getting evaluated and therapies playing with him instead.  There is very good data to support the notion that parents can be just as good if not better therapists for their language delayed children (see Hanen training info for some of this data). 

 

Of course, it can be notoriously difficult to distinguish between a delay and a disorder - though one very good indicator of a simple delay is a parent or close relative who was also a "late talker".  So I guess I would personally have my child checked out if they were having expressive delays at 3.  In the absence of a receptive language delay and no other developmental problems, I would suspect verbal apraxia.  But there is a reason that children aren't even evaluated for developmental delays until 3 or 4 in many parts of the world, and the push for early intervention is a main reason why childhood developmental disorders are being diagnosed at much higher rates.  It used to be that children weren't out in the world until 5 or 6 and by then the vast majority of kids with delays (and NOT disorders) had just caught up.  If you feel confident that you child is just behind, then letting them grow up a bit before throwing them into the world of therapy and labels is your choice and I'm not willing to judge someone for listening to their gut about their own child.  Its not the road I would take, but I trust parents to know their children!

 

ITA. I forgot to mention, I highly suspected along that DS' delay was truly just a delay because I was the same as a child. My parents have videos of me at 3 y/o coming into a room and speaking complete nonsense, like paragraphs of complete nonsense. They said my language solidified shortly before age 4, and I learned to read around the same time. I am gifted, and graduated school 2 years early. Despite my delay, I had no disorder of any kind. I sort of "knew" DS would just begin talking at some point. 


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#21 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 05:08 PM
 
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As this is a forum it's perfectly acceptable to discuss openly about what could help and what might be necessary.  I don't get your anger towards those that feel there could be something more going on.  For the record, our Dr suggested we get our little ones hearing checked as she was not a big speaker either.  And guess what?  Her hearing was an issue.  She also refused to walk and he said it was her doing her own thing on her own time.  She didn't walk until she was 18 mos.  He wasn't a terrible Dr.  He was right on.  She's perfectly fine but still has a bit of hearing issues.

 

 

By the way May is Better Hearing and Speech month.  So whether you like it or not there may be other people out there frustrated and having a hard time trying figure out how to help their kids.  Some people will not be able to do it on their own due to circumstances beyond their control and it's nice to know they don't have to do all on their own.  Please save your distasteful words for another month. 

 

 

 

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#22 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 05:27 PM
 
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I think there are some issues with "labels" but I think dismissing them all is very misguided.

 

If my parents had been more concerned about avoiding a "label" for me than about figuring out what was going on, they would not have bothered to have my hearing tested.

 

If my parents had been more concerned about avoiding me being "forced into a mold" than helping me reach my full potential, I would not have hearing aids and would not have had speech therapy.

 

I was in speech therapy at age 2. Time is a factor. Thanks to my mother's actions, I speak well enough that few people have any idea I am legally deaf in both ears.

 

Without hearing aids and speech therapy, I think it is more than fair to assume I would have struggled in school (despite a high IQ), had serious limitations in my employability, had significant anxiety in my daily interactions, and been limited in my personal relationships. I don't think that's a fair exchange for the privilege of not being labelled "legally deaf."

 

Sometimes people are indeed forced into molds, like right brained learners in a left brained world. There are other people who need extra help in order to reach their full potential.

 

It's almost like you're saying there's something wrong with having a special need. Surely you're not saying that, are you?

 

I don't know what might be causing your child's speech difficulties, but what you've described is concerning enough to take steps to find out.

 

You may be afraid of getting the wrong diagnosis. That does happen. Some professionals have agendas. You are fully empowered to listen to the feedback you get and think "no, that's not it," and find someone else - but do it with an open mind. Don't say "no, no, no" out of fear, out of avoiding a "label." Put your priority on getting your child the help she needs rather than on the outcome you desire. I'm sure my mother didn't wish I was hearing impaired, but I'm very glad she accepted it and helped me.


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#23 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 05:28 PM
 
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You're interested in ways to help teach her to talk better - in other words, you want to learn some of the techniques speech therapists use - but you don't want to consult a speech therapist?  If you really just want to let her develop at her own pace, why are you so interested in teaching techniques?  If what you really want is to teach her to talk, why not consider consulting someone who has expertise in that area?

 

ETA: You seem to be worried about what kind of label she might get, but most likely there will be no specific label other than a statement that she's behind the average child her age in speech by such-and-such an amount.  You already know she's behind most kids her age, so being officially told that should be no big deal.  If the therapist suggests another label like apraxia, as Laohaire says, you're free to decide for yourself whether or not that label makes sense.  It's not like they're going to actually stick a physical label on her and make her wear it for life.

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#24 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 06:25 PM
 
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What, exactly, is the downside of a developmental screening and potentially speech therapy?

We love our SLP, and I am so grateful for having my then 3 yo checked out at Child Find -- he's now 7 and has come so far because of therapy.

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#25 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 08:01 PM
 
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My own experience is this: my child's doctor determined DD was behind in speech - I think it was around 18 months. She recommended testing for speech therapy. DD was tested. She got in the free state speech therapy program. A nice lady came over to my house every week to work with DD for one hour. During that time I enjoyed having my child be entertained by someone she liked for a little while while I got chores done. Games were played, play-doh was introduced. My daughter had now tested out of the program because her speech has improved to the point where she is at age level. DD and I were very friendly with the speech therapist and will miss her weekly visit. I also pumped the speech therapist for info on everything from the quality of local schools and playgroups to whether there were local homeschooling families, because she is in a position to have an inside scoop on that. She was a great all around resource.

 

The point of this story is what is the down side of testing and therapy? Therapy is done in a way that is enjoyable for the child. It is free, or at least I think it is free in most or all states. The child has another interested adult interacting with her, which is great for everyone. And no one forces you to do it. If you don't like the way things are going, you can always leave the program.

 

I am very confused by your angry rejection of something that might really help and seems unlikely to do harm.
 

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#26 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 08:36 PM
 
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You sound exactly like me about 7 years ago.  My husband also was delayed in speech, but started speaking in sentences around the time he turned 3 years old, my child was snuggly and would drag me everywhere and point to what he wanted, and interacted by giggling or being utterly frustrated when I would try and make him speak, and had the "word count" and sentences that the milestone charts said he should.  And, like you, every suggestion that something was wrong was met with defensiveness. (I suspect they are still there someplace back in my history here...I, too, was frustrated that people here were suggesting therapy of all things...isn't this supposed to be the place that was safe from all that mainstream nonsense?)  After all, I breastfed, ate organically, cloth diapered, didn't vaccinate, did tons and tons of tummy time and interacting, babywore, co-slept...everything, and, I had a boy, and boys tend to talk later.  I swore there was NO WAY there was something "wrong" with him.

 

I finally took him in for a screening.  Those few words and "whole sentences" were, as I discovered, not used the way typical children used language.  He had the word count, he technically had sentences (but they were echolalic, not a spontaneous combination of words), and those "babbling in his own language" were often echolalia where he wasn't processing it well enough to get distinct sounding words, just the general sounds, and he was missing a whole lot of things that I was totally blind to until years later when I really understood what was going on.  Those people who dared suggest I get him evaluated were right.  It was a jolt.  HOWEVER, therapies at this age are fun for the kids and extraordinarily valuable to everybody in the family.  Really, it was the hardest thing I ever did, but it was also the best thing I ever did and made the biggest impact for good in his life.

 

So, as a parent who has been there, there is absolutely no harm in getting evaluated, but letting it pass by can be harmful.  Love isn't always enough, sometimes you need the knowledge of professionals to help you learn how to teach your child.  If you are having to explicitly teach what most kids pick up naturally, you at least need to know what you are dealing with so you can become a better teacher for her.


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#27 of 50 Old 05-13-2012, 08:42 PM
 
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And being afraid of labels...I was too.  So much, that when I was interviewed about my child for a magazine, that is what they focused on in the article.

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-7257


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#28 of 50 Old 05-14-2012, 03:57 AM
 
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Oh, I also wanted to add that DS DID have a hearing issue as well, even though he hears well. I figured that because he could pick out a cat meowing outside (he'd look at me puzzled and say Meow? - I had a hard time hearing it) and could follow instructions, he was fine, but speech hits a number of frequencies, and he wasn't hearing all of them because of massive fluid in his ears. He failed 2 hearing tests. He got tubes in April, and passed the test 3 weeks later. An experienced audiologist can make the test painless and dare I say, even fun, for little ones.

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#29 of 50 Old 05-14-2012, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I do not want to sit down and drill her an hour a day, she's not that type of kid. She is a free spirit and I want to keep her such. What I am looking for is small things I can do throughout normal activities that are different from what I am doing now.

 

Her last hearing test was between one and two, like I said it's not a hearing problem. Where my frustration is coming from is the fact I tried to be very up front in my question that she has neither motor skill, hearing or any other indicators of a developmental problem, she just doesn't want to talk and instead of getting answers to my questions I am getting a lot of answers that do not pertain to our particular problem. I know that is hard over the internet sometimes, but I have done my best to be as clear as possible and people are looking over that just to post what they want. I do not want someone that potentially has good information for us to over look this thread because it appears to have been well answered already because it hasn't.

 

WTH we are using the word label because this is the internet! It's easy! diagnosis has more letters in it! I've toted my kids to speciailists, We've been to neuphrologists, we've been to cardiologists, we've been to gastrologists. I was seriously considering getting my oldest to a therapist when she was going through a very angry spurt, but she was growing out of it by the time I found one that I felt was good enough to go to so I decided to wait it out. I am not afraid of getting things done that are necessary! This is one of those times like a couple other mothers have said, I can tell she is just being herself and making a choice and I expect she will start making leaps and bounds over the next year, just like she has made progress over the last few months. What I do not want is someone to diagnose her with some far reaching disorder that they are misinterpretting because she does not like strange adults and she certainly would not like strange adults in our house. Let me make this more clear than before. We just moved we had workers coming and going for weeks she did not want to be anywhere near them. There were a couple of them that we knew from my sister. We visited with them and I tried to get her friendly with them, they were here two days, she didn't want anything to do with them! And one of them has kids the same ages as mine, it's not like they were big scary people that didn't know how to talk to children. She made me hold her the entire time we were near any of them and wouldn't say a word. The gymnastics teacher is friendly and wonderful with kids, used to run her own daycare, it still took months for her to decide she liked her.


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#30 of 50 Old 05-14-2012, 06:06 AM
 
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Speech Therapy is not about drilling the kid for an hour a day.  It isn't even close to that, or at least it certainly wasn't in our experience.  It is about getting processes set up that makes the day go smoother, learning what supports you can put in place to help reduce frustration and learn things.  

 

If you are fine with your kids going to other specialists, why are you resistant to them seeing an SLP and/or OT for services?  For our family it was less like medical interventions and more like learning new ways to play with my kids so that they could learn from play, the way all kids learn from play.  I still see SLPs and OTs as specialized teachers, who have the knowledge to facilitate learning in kids who learn differently than typical kids do.  

 

Basically, if you started a thread asking us to tell you what a SLP would recommend doing, it might be a better idea to actually get an SLP involved who can get to know you and your child and give far more valuable and targeted advice than a bunch of people with a wide range of experiences.  In my own experience, there was certainly some overlap between what helped my son and what helped my daughter (also speech delayed), but what was the most useful for each of them was quite different.

 

Also, you might consider going to a hearing specialist for an evaluation if you haven't already.  I thought my kids were quite obviously fine in that regard, but I was wrong on both counts.  My son has completely normal hearing, but after some investigation he was found to have an auditory processing delay.  He hears just fine, but his brain doesn't process the sounds correctly.  My daughter had normal hearing too, but she had deficits that looked exactly like somebody with intermittent hearing impairment, like you get with allergies.  Just because they appear to hear you doesn't mean that the sounds are useful to their brains.


Mom to 10yo Autistic Wonder Boy and 6yo Inquisitive Fireball Girl . December birthdays.

Jennifer Z is offline  
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