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#61 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Disagree. And I feel you did not -either- read all my posts or did not understand what I was trying to convey.

 

She knows it is her vagina. She knows the word anus. She doesn't know rectum (it hasn't come up). I am completely open with her. I see NO SHAME in the word. No weird feelings. IF she were a boy I would have used the word penis!

 

I haven't told her there is a baby in my uterus. I see NO SHAME in the word uterus. I still prefer to say' baby in my stomach'. 

 

So I am really talking about the 'sound' of it.. not any shame in the words. 

 

At this time I have said all there is to say about it I guess... will not repeat things further.

 

See one of my previous posts. I had already clarified that it was the way it 'sounded'....

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#62 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:08 PM
 
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Well then what word is not too harsh?

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#63 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:18 PM
 
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This is why we use both cutesie words and technical words. In general, we call girl parts "peenie" (for a boy, it would be peener). Both of my girls (4 & 2) know that it is also called vulva. They will say either & the younger pronounces it "oval" which I think is hilarious. They can identify it, I prompt them to call it both, they don't have shame. I cannot think of anything else to call genitals that is not cutesie b/c anything else is a nickname. You could call it V. As others have suggested, say, "Make sure you wipe, front and back." That covers everything.

 

I don't see what the big deal about "proper terms" is, esp since most people mistakenly call the vulva "vagina". If a child can say, "He touched my pee-pee," and point to her crotch, it is a really dim adult who would not understand what that meant.

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#64 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:19 PM
 
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when i was little it was called "privates"


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#65 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:28 PM
 
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In my house, we use vulva, but we also use "boobah," because that's the closest dd could get when she was a toddler. She's almost 9 now and only uses that when she's joking around. My youngest ds is coming up on 7 and has a major speech delay. On the occasions he's used the word (not often, because he doesn't have one), it sounds sort of like a cross between vulva and boobah.
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#66 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zinemama
Quote:
So, by "heavy" you're not referring to the actual meaning of the word but the sound of it? Do you mean that it sounds abrasive to you? Not soft and flowing? Sort of like "lalala" sounds melodious and "akakakak" has a harder sound? Is that what you mean?
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Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post


Yes.. is what I mean.

Ok, I finally get what you mean by heavy (I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided if you'd clarified that this was what you meant from the get-go. You probably thought you did, but clearly people did not understand what you meant. I certainly didn't.

So, this is a fascinating approach to parenting that I have never encountered. You're actively choosing not to use certain words because they are not melodious. I'm really curious what other words you don't use with your dd. I can think of several right off the bat that contain "harsh" sounds (or sounds contained in vagina and vulva):

unicorn
cracker
cookie
compost
vegan
volvo
garden
jelly
vacuum
tickle
tomato
and so many more!

Is it difficult to come up with alternatives for words that contain harsh sounds? And more importantly, how do you think your dd will be affected by hearing those sounds? How do you keep her away from them in day-to-day life?
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#67 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 01:51 PM
 
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I care for a 92 year old woman. I have to help her use the restroom, and wash up. In that situation Vagina doesn't feel like the right word to use either. I typically hand her a wet washcloth and tell her to wipe her crotch, then I tell her to make sure she's steady so that I can wipe her butt for her. I've used Vagina before, but she is more comfortable with crotch. Her and her family use Yoni to refer to the vagina when talking about it with the children in the family. Honestly, I don't think using a word other than Vulva or Vagina infers shame, it's tone of voice, body language and other things that children do pick up on that can infer shame. There's no right way or right word that works for everybody, so we all have to do things in a way that we are comfortable with.

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#68 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by zinemama View Post

Originally Posted by zinemama
Quote:
So, by "heavy" you're not referring to the actual meaning of the word but the sound of it? Do you mean that it sounds abrasive to you? Not soft and flowing? Sort of like "lalala" sounds melodious and "akakakak" has a harder sound? Is that what you mean?
Ok, I finally get what you mean by heavy (I think a lot of confusion could have been avoided if you'd clarified that this was what you meant from the get-go. You probably thought you did, but clearly people did not understand what you meant. I certainly didn't.
So, this is a fascinating approach to parenting that I have never encountered. You're actively choosing not to use certain words because they are not melodious. I'm really curious what other words you don't use with your dd. I can think of several right off the bat that contain "harsh" sounds (or sounds contained in vagina and vulva):
unicorn
cracker
cookie
compost
vegan
volvo
garden
jelly
vacuum
tickle
tomato
and so many more!
Is it difficult to come up with alternatives for words that contain harsh sounds? And more importantly, how do you think your dd will be affected by hearing those sounds? How do you keep her away from them in day-to-day life?

I specifically quoted one of my earliest posts that mentioned the 'sound' of the word. If you didn't understand when I essentially said the same thing - then you obviously did not read all my posts. 

 

So I am very interested about your deductive logic.

 

You got that this was 1) My approach to parenting in general 2) That I am actively choosing NOT to use non-melodious words with my DD and am shielding them from her 3) Have come up with a whole slew of words that you think may be similar to words I have been hiding from my child  4) Wonder if I am actively trying to come up with alternate words for every 'harsh sounding' word out there in the world 5) Wonder how my DD is being affected by hearing these harsh words or how I perceive her as being affected by harsh sounding words 6) and Ask how I keep her away from such words.. How do I shield her? Do I close her ears when she hears them? Do I put a special word-selector over her ears?

 

Your logical reasoning fascinates me! Care to explain how your mind works? Am really very curious.

 

Also explain how you chose to completely ignore that I have been using vulva and vagina all her life so far and will continue to use it but was wanting to know if there were a reasonable substitute when I was making a song about it and wanting to make her laugh?

 

That would be truly helpful too.

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#69 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:06 PM
 
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I have two boys so this is all theoretical for me, but when I hear of people using 'vagina' with young girls, it seems odd.  Mostly because, while I learned early on that I had a vagina and what it was for, I had no personal experience with it until I was menstruating and trying to learn to use a tampon.  I assure you, my 3- and 1-year-old boys have personal, daily experience with their penises, so it would be just as odd not to use that word.

 

I sort of like the word vulva because is is a general term for all the external female parts, but it's not commonly part of most people's vocabulary, which is what makes it 'heavy.'  It's like saying scapula when you mean shoulder blade - they're both accurate and precise, but one is normal and the other is technical.  And talking about wiping the vagina after going potty is like saying clavicle when you mean shoulder blade, since the vagina is interior and not part you wipe.

 

I don't talk about wiping a bottom, butt, tush, or anus.  I just say "wipe."  I imagine for a girl, when I need to specify, I would say "in the front" and "in the back."

 

Regarding pregnancy, I usually talk about the baby being 'in my belly.'  Stomach (tummy) is a specific organ, up high right under the rib cage, where my food goes when I swallow. Kids come up with the oddest ideas anyway about - I don't want to tell him that baby is in the same place as the food I swallow.  Belly is a nice general term for the middle part of my body where my uterus, bladder, intestines, stomach, etc are.  Belly sounds normal to me.  Womb sounds old-fashioned.  Uterus sounds technical, so I use it when talking to my 3-year-old, but only when I want to be more precise than 'belly.'

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#70 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post

I specifically quoted one of my earliest posts that mentioned the 'sound' of the word. If you didn't understand when I essentially said the same thing - then you obviously did not read all my posts. 

 

So I am very interested about your deductive logic.

 

You got that this was 1) My approach to parenting in general 2) That I am actively choosing NOT to use non-melodious words with my DD and am shielding them from her 3) Have come up with a whole slew of words that you think may be similar to words I have been hiding from my child  4) Wonder if I am actively trying to come up with alternate words for every 'harsh sounding' word out there in the world 5) Wonder how my DD is being affected by hearing these harsh words or how I perceive her as being affected by harsh sounding words 6) and Ask how I keep her away from such words.. How do I shield her? Do I close her ears when she hears them? Do I put a special word-selector over her ears?

 

Your logical reasoning fascinates me! Care to explain how your mind works? Am really very curious.

 

Also explain how you chose to completely ignore that I have been using vulva and vagina all her life so far and will continue to use it but was wanting to know if there were a reasonable substitute when I was making a song about it and wanting to make her laugh?

 

That would be truly helpful too.

 

 

Well since you pointed out you read a thread here on MOTHERING where we all talked about the proper terms to be used and what we thought should be used,  I'm surprised you're even the tiniest bit upset how other members of MOTHERING have interpreted your original post. 

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#71 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have two boys so this is all theoretical for me, but when I hear of people using 'vagina' with young girls, it seems odd.  Mostly because, while I learned early on that I had a vagina and what it was for, I had no personal experience with it until I was menstruating and trying to learn to use a tampon.  I assure you, my 3- and 1-year-old boys have personal, daily experience with their penises, so it would be just as odd not to use that word.

 

I sort of like the word vulva because is is a general term for all the external female parts, but it's not commonly part of most people's vocabulary, which is what makes it 'heavy.'  It's like saying scapula when you mean shoulder blade - they're both accurate and precise, but one is normal and the other is technical.  And talking about wiping the vagina after going potty is like saying clavicle when you mean shoulder blade, since the vagina is interior and not part you wipe.

 

I don't talk about wiping a bottom, butt, tush, or anus.  I just say "wipe."  I imagine for a girl, when I need to specify, I would say "in the front" and "in the back."

 

Regarding pregnancy, I usually talk about the baby being 'in my belly.'  Stomach (tummy) is a specific organ, up high right under the rib cage, where my food goes when I swallow. Kids come up with the oddest ideas anyway about - I don't want to tell him that baby is in the same place as the food I swallow.  Belly is a nice general term for the middle part of my body where my uterus, bladder, intestines, stomach, etc are.  Belly sounds normal to me.  Womb sounds old-fashioned.  Uterus sounds technical, so I use it when talking to my 3-year-old, but only when I want to be more precise than 'belly.'

 

 

This is exactly me. Except now you want to split hairs and state your way is right because MY tummy = stomach - but YOUR belly = nice general term for all the middle parts of your body.

 

Here http://thesaurus.com/browse/tummy  belly and tummy are synonyms! 

 

And did you just write belly 'sounds normal' to you? Have you not been reading up on how some people are trying to have a duel with me just because I said something 'sounds harsh'.

 

So belly sounds normal eh? Tummy sounds nasty? Belly is sacred? Do you think there may be some inherent shame you feel in using 'tummy'?  Maybe a repressed childhood incident or upbringing you want to tell us about so we can brainwash you? Maybe you want to subconsciously change the way the whole world talks because it suits your agenda?

 

Roll it off your tongue enough times and see- it does flow normally after all...

 

..and you don't use uterus but use belly? My- that is a fascinating approach to parenting. Care to tell us what other words are you shielding from your kids?

 

 

P.S. I hope Diyan .. you will not misunderstand me and think that all this is directed at you!

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#72 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:27 PM
 
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. Honestly, I don't think using a word other than Vulva or Vagina infers shame, it's tone of voice, body language and other things that children do pick up on that can infer shame. There's no right way or right word that works for everybody, so we all have to do things in a way that we are comfortable with.

 

This is the wisest thing said yet in this discussion.

 

lurk.gif This is always an entertaining thread, every year or so when it gets brought up....

 

And for my personal view: I can't even remember what we called our genitals when I was a child. I can, however, name about 241 other ways in which I took on the cultural shame around sexuality.

 

I also tend to think this is one thing that at the end of the day when our children are all grown up, we aren't going to look back and think mattered at all.


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#73 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:28 PM
 
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You know what's really ridiculous?? A bunch of grown women who are "uncomfortable" using the word VAGINA or VULVA. And the even more ridiculous part of that? Passing off your discomfort by saying the word is too "harsh". And, dude, my vagina is not sacred. That is just asinine. It's an organ. With many purposes, but it is not "sacred".  


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#74 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:31 PM
 
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I use vagina or tell her to wipe front to back. I also say uterus, penis, vulva, breasts, nipples, etc....  whatever is being discussed.  Why would that be awkward?


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#75 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well since you pointed out you read a thread here on MOTHERING where we all talked about the proper terms to be used and what we thought should be used,  I'm surprised you're even the tiniest bit upset how other members of MOTHERING have interpreted your original post. 

I read parts of some threads. Again .. you have not read my posts properly.  You keep talking about some thread that spanned 20 pages long. I have not come across that. If you see the time difference between my first post and the second post where i mentioned I just browsed some threads you will know it was a cursory glance.

 

I am NOT surprised about my original post being misunderstood.

 

I am surprised that the questions which were answered in post 15 are being ignored and the same answers are being acknowledged in post #30 (arbitrary numbers). I am surprised that posters are suggesting cutesie names when requested not to.. and then claim they were trying to be helpful. I am surprised that they think they are being cute by writing this...

 

I am surprised that attacks by this same members are supposed to be considered fair and when I call them out on it - they scream 'unfair'.

 

I am surprised that ridiculous assumptions are being made about my parenting in general and no too respectfully either.

 

I am surprised that each of you is looking at one part of the elephant and accusing me of calling the elephant - a fan, a snake, a pillar.. and are oblivious to the fact that they are reading half-baked parts of my post and deliberately ignoring some facts.

 

I am also surprised at how blood-thirsty some of you are acting and are trying to arm-twist here.

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#76 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:31 PM
 
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FWIW, my daughter started asking at a very young age (18 months-ish?) what to call her girl parts (she'd grab it during diaper change and say, "Tummy?" or something like that.) I wasn't sure what to say and went with vulva, even though I felt weird saying it every time. For a while after that she would walk around and grab her crotch and go "FOOFA! FOOFA!", sounding so pleased with herself and happy with her body. It tickled me, and I feel a lot more comfy with the word vulva now.
 

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#77 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You know what's really ridiculous?? A bunch of grown women who are "uncomfortable" using the word VAGINA or VULVA. And the even more ridiculous part of that? Passing off your discomfort by saying the word is too "harsh". And, dude, my vagina is not sacred. That is just asinine. It's an organ. With many purposes, but it is not "sacred".  

 

 

Oh then you should really fight with the posters who are suggesting using yoni or sacred well !

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#78 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:35 PM
 
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BM, slow it down.  Slow it down.  It's gonna be okay.  You can look all over MDC and this topic gets brought up yearly.  And everyone is still surprised by those who seem to have some issues with the way VULVA and VAGINA roll of the tongue.  It's not new.  Besides I think we're due for another one of these threads.  Sorry you didn't like people disagreeing with your original sentiment.  Can't always have it your way. 

 

PS

 

It's a forum, there are lots of people here.  LOTS!  We're not all going to agree with you. 

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#79 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I use vagina or tell her to wipe front to back. I also say uterus, penis, vulva, breasts, nipples, etc....  whatever is being discussed.  Why would that be awkward?

 

You use vagina when you want her to wipe her vulva? My.. that is a serious technical indiscretion ..haven't you been reading the responses to my posts from previous posters?

 

How could you do that to a young impressionable mind. She is going to grow up and be scarred for life now!

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#80 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:41 PM
 
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You sound angry, BM. There's no judgement attached to that statement. Just an observation.
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#81 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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BM, slow it down.  Slow it down.  It's gonna be okay.  You can look all over MDC and this topic gets brought up yearly.  And everyone is still surprised by those who seem to have some issues with the way VULVA and VAGINA roll of the tongue.  It's not new.  Besides I think we're due for another one of these threads.  Sorry you didn't like people disagreeing with your original sentiment.  Can't always have it your way. 

 

PS

 

It's a forum, there are lots of people here.  LOTS!  We're not all going to agree with you. 

Please disagree with me all you want. Do it respectfully is all I ask. Don't make assumptions and don't try and ridicule. Don't try and put words in my mouth. Read my complete posts. Don't make this your personal soapbox. 

 

Just because it looks a bit like all those other threads.. it is not one of 'those' threads.

 

May be it has been an year and you were hungrily waiting for one such thread. Sure you can use it as a platform to rehash all that you ALL had collectively decided was the 'most correct and best' way to do things and maybe you ALL had reached a consensus on what the world should/should not be doing.... No problems.

 

Do not make me the scapegoat of all that you perceive as evil and try to fit my square statements into a round hole so you can get things off your chest. And do not try and shame me.

 

No one likes to take it lying down.

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#82 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:48 PM
 
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Oh then you should really fight with the posters who are suggesting using yoni or sacred well !

 

I suggested sacred well, it was tongue in cheek, yo. Because it's ridiculous. Like this argument. Really, how is labia any different than vagina or vulva? It seems like you kinda tossed that out there as a way to get people off of your back. 

 

 

And yeah, to the poster who said it, sure, if a kid is being abused they can say "pee-pee" or crotch or whatever word you use for it, but that's not the point, is it? It's about the negative connotation that the words vagina, vulva, etc have acquired over history. It's about the idea that sexual organs are dirty or are shameful and so they must not be referred to ever, except with cutesy names or in hushed tones. Seriously, people, come on. 


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#83 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You sound angry, BM. There's no judgement attached to that statement. Just an observation.

 

 

Eclipse if you are observant enough to see 'inherent shame and years of oppression' in my slightest protest about how I could not make a song about vagina... surely you are observant enough to see the judgement!

 

Let's not kid ourselves here. Let's call a spade a spade.

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#84 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:51 PM
 
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Eclipse if you are observant enough to see 'inherent shame and years of oppression' in my slightest protest about how I could not make a song about vagina... surely you are observant enough to see the judgement!

 

Let's not kid ourselves here. Let's call a spade a spade.

 

Or a vagina a vagina. 

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#85 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by PhoenixMommaToTwo View Post

 

I suggested sacred well, it was tongue in cheek, yo. Because it's ridiculous. Like this argument. Really, how is labia any different than vagina or vulva? It seems like you kinda tossed that out there as a way to get people off of your back. 

 

 

And yeah, to the poster who said it, sure, if a kid is being abused they can say "pee-pee" or crotch or whatever word you use for it, but that's not the point, is it? It's about the negative connotation that the words vagina, vulva, etc have acquired over history. It's about the idea that sexual organs are dirty or are shameful and so they must not be referred to ever, except with cutesy names or in hushed tones. Seriously, people, come on. 

 

Oh did it? All this provoking people and responding back sounds like I am trying to get people off my back? It doesn't seem like I am standing my ground to you? 

 

Well.. then we have a winner for what else is ridiculous - people!

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#86 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:53 PM
 
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Or a vulva a vulva.

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#87 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Or a vulva a vulva.

 

Vullllllvvvvvaaaa.......... it kinda rolls of the tongue, eh? Vagina, vagina, vagina. See? Not that hard to say, or type, in this case. 


"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect."
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#88 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:58 PM
 
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Maybe a vulvita?  Or Vulvinator?

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#89 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 02:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Blessed_Mom View Post

 

Oh did it? All this provoking people and responding back sounds like I am trying to get people off my back? It doesn't seem like I am standing my ground to you? 

 

Well.. then we have a winner for what else is ridiculous - people!

 

Nope, sounds like you're throwing around a bunch of meanie accusations more than you're standing your ground. And I mean that respectfully, of course. 


"We submit to the majority because we have to. But we are not compelled to call our attitude of subjection a posture of respect."
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#90 of 234 Old 06-17-2012, 03:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Maybe a vulvita?  Or Vulvinator?

Vulvita sounds like vaginal (or, uh, vulvular) cheese. Like a really bad yeast infection.
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