Maybe I'm not cut out for AP parenting...I'm starting to let my baby CIO but I desperately want help not to... - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 41 Old 07-11-2012, 09:34 AM
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Good morning!  I have removed the posts that were advocating CIO.  Please remember that Mothering does not wish to host the promotion of CIO or other harsh sleep training methods.  Furthermore, the OP has said that is not something she wishes to do, so keep the advice topical. 


Thank you!

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#32 of 41 Old 07-12-2012, 04:22 AM
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I am so sorry you are dealing with this, especially with a 4 year old who needs you during the day! hug2.gif

My older DD was a night owl and I finally decided to let her stay up until 11-12 when she was finally tired enough to go to sleep. By 9 pm. I was exhausted and despite the fact that I hate using TV as a "babysitter", I started turning on Sprout while she had a snack and watched the good night show, lol. I have to admit that we often ended up watching the final lullaby and singing it together.
She also slept in our bed because it was easier.
I also made sure I checked for teething and gave her motrin when I saw molars coming in because that definitely kept her up and I don't blame her, I know I'm miserable if I have a toothache or headache and don't take something to get rid of it!
(homeopathic things never worked for her and I tried them all before resorting to motrin)

So here is how our sleep schedule then changed...
Watching the good night show then going to bed around 11-12. At first she woke up once to nurse but then that stopped. After only a little while, she started sleeping later and later and then usually ending up getting up in the morning at about 9:30-10 am.
I would get up by 7 and that gave me at least 6 hours of sleep plus free time to exercise (also important for my sanity!) and do stuff on my own before she woke up.
She took a 2-3 hour nap from about 2:30-5 or 5:30 every day.

So many people told me that I needed to put her to bed earlier and that she would not adjust to getting up on time for school and that it was a crazy sleep schedule, especially because of the late nap, but it never worked to do that!

When she was 3, she started a 2 day a week preschool that began at 9:30. It was a little hard to get her going and wake her up by 9 but it was only 2 days a week and she loved the school.
At 4 years old, she went 3 days a week and adjusted well to the 9 am wake up time even while still staying up until 10-11 pm by then.
She also continued the late nap time.

The summer before kindergarten I started getting her up by 9 and then 8 every day and her nap got earlier and shorter and by the time school started she was fine waking up by 7:30 to get to school by 8 am (all day kindergarten). She was tired the first few weeks but they had a rest time in the afternoon and she slept there for a couple months, eventually transitioning to no nap and an earlier bed time with no TV at all.

Every child is different, some are more inclined to stay up late and some are early birds, just like adults and you need to do what works for you no matter what other people say.
She is a great sleeper now, goes to sleep right away (still a little later than most kids, 9-9:30 pm) and never wakes up at night.

My suggestion is to let nap time get later and be as long as he wants to sleep and don't worry about it. Then he will stay up later with no problem and hopefully sleep better and longer.
Some kids refuse to go by our schedule but hopefully you can find one that works for him and gets you a much longer chunk of sleep because sleep deprivation is no joke, it affects every aspect of your life.

Good luck, I hope things work better soon!

Deb, Mom to Madeleine 8/2005 and Maia 11/2009 Nick: and Chris
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#33 of 41 Old 07-12-2012, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by callahansmama View Post

Also, I have seen firsthand how children who stay up late are affected as students and learners. If a 3 year old is going to bed at 10 or 11 or midnight, how will they learn to get up in the morning for school when kindergarten starts? I can see that being a very difficult transition and for me, having time to myself and with my partner in the evening, make me a better mother no doubt about it. I said I said it sounds obsurd to me and it does. I never did have a typical sleeper by any means until my son started falling asleep on his own with the confidence to know that mom and dad were busy in the kitchen or living room and that he was safe and loved in his cozy little bed. Before that - nightmare for 16 months.


LOL, Callahansmama! Imagining doing something different from what you do takes nothing more than a little assumption-checking, that's all!


For instance, while a late bedtime sounds absurd for you, it may seem perfectly natural for someone else, and that's not just because the babies are different, but perhaps because the parents are different, and maybe their schedule, needs, and priorities are different from yours.


My 7 month-old goes to bed at 10 or 11. This works for us for a couple of reasons. I'm going to point out your assumptions.


You wonder how a toddler going to bed at 10 or 11 would be able to get up for school. Assumption #1: not every child that age goes to school at 8:30 or whenever. Many people homeschool or skip kindergarten. Also, until recently, in Ontario, there was half-day kindergarten at that age, and half the children had kindergarten from 12:30-3:00 pm or something. So they wouldn't have to get up, would they?


Assumption #2: that a child wouldn't be able to adjust their bedtime. A 15-month-old doesn't go to kindergarten, so what makes you think they couldn't adjust to an earlier bedtime once they need to for school? I recently went on a trip across time zones, and so my son had to adjust his bedtime back 2 hours and then forward again 2 hours. It took him a couple of days to adjust, not months. So why would it be an issue what a 15 month old's bedtime was, if he needed it to be different years later?


You say an earlier bedtime works for you partly because it's nice to have time to yourself and your partner in the evening. Assumption #3: that every adult goes to bed at the same time as you. My husband and I are musicians and often work until 11 pm. Pre-baby, we went to bed at 1 or 2 am regularly. If my baby goes to sleep at about 10 pm, I have plenty of time with just the two of us before I turn in. Assumption #4: that people would want time alone with their partners. Sometimes, my husband and I just stay up and have family time before the baby goes to sleep, and then, when he does, we go to sleep, too. Having alone time in the evening with my husband isn't always a priority for us right now. We had 8 years together before the baby came and had plenty of alone time then; also, since we often don't work during the day, we can have sex in the afternoons while he naps, another thing that I bet is different than your schedule.


If I had a baby who went to bed at 7:30 pm, he'd wake up at 6:30 am or earlier! Because of my work schedule, I can't imagine anything more disruptive to our sleep patterns and need for rest. My husband and I sleep until 8 or 9 am, or later, and we have to sleep that late, or we wouldn't have the energy or focus to play Beethoven symphonies at 8 or 9 pm. My baby gets up at 9 am-ish, when we have to get up anyway, and he wouldn't sleep in that late unless we put him to bed at 10ish. This schedule allows everyone in my family to get the maximum amount of rest, which is not only a priority but a necessity for us to be able to work.


You see how it works?

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#34 of 41 Old 07-12-2012, 05:19 AM
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I'm new, first post in fact. I'm an 'old school' Mothering mama from the 80s when I saw Dr. Sears and Dr. Gordon on The Home Show...way old, lol. I have 8 kids, 7-25 and 3 grandkids. I met Peggy O. at 19-years-old and finally felt justified in what I was doing with my son. It was literally like a life saver. 


What I'm going to say sucks, bad.


The number one thing you can do right now to control/stop that crazed, lack-of-sleep anger that comes with this sitch...ACCEPT IT.


If dad ain't helping much. Once you reduce HIS anger, yours WILL go down by at least 50%, it's the natural law of things. He's not going to suddenly change after this happens night after night and if you love him and want to be with him, just accept the deal and go it on your own to a point.


I am not certain of the rules here and I promise, I am not trying to say you're wrong. I noticed you wrote 'then I go in there' after he's been fussing. Have you tried bringing him to bed with you? Or going to sleep with him when you're ready for bed? My only girl, I can't believe I'm gonna share this...she would only eat while we were both was sitting up, almost from day one. I couldn't sleep with her, nada. She would SCREAM if she was flat or covered in any way, period. The only way I got sleep was I put her in a little infant chair, on the floor, a huge pile of blankets on the floor for me and turned the TV on. I would hold her toes and she would sleep for 4-5 hours in that thing. My mom went ballistic, saying I'd ruin her spine (ha, it ruined mine instead), but she also thought I'd ruin her life by breastfeeding her, ha. You've probably already tried, but make sure there is NOTHING he can hurt himself on, make a huge cozy spot on the floor he can share and try it. To this day, all my kids talk about/still have a 'spot'. Piles of blankies, pillows and often mom or dad!


I wish I could help you. I don't miss that overwhelming despair that comes sometimes. Someone else wrote my moms favorite saying: This too shall pass. It really will. xoxo

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#35 of 41 Old 07-12-2012, 05:39 AM
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margie, i hope you stick around! you must have lots of experience and 20/20 hind vision! lol my four kids range from 9 months to 17 years.


i agree with the advice to accept some things...but that is very hard to do. i decide every week to just accept that i can't get sleep and just go with the flow, but i fail every few days when i cry all day and snap at my family all day.

drowning in hormones with 4 daughters and an understanding, loving hubby. also some dogs. my life is crazy and we are always learning.

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#36 of 41 Old 07-12-2012, 06:01 AM
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Along those same lines as what was just posted, I wanted to say that a lot of times your anger and frustration can be the main instigator for either winding up your child or maintaining the behavior you'd like to stop.  And MargieMama8 is right, if your partner or someone else is giving you grief, that just fuels the fire. Remind your husband you need his positive support - you're on the same team.  I've found that when I finally just give in to my child's needs and remind myself that my little one is just looking for love and support from me, bad patterns (be they sleep or behavioral) usually resolve themselves surprisingly quickly.  A lot of times it just requires an adjustment of my expectations. 


I'm also remembering that my daughter when through a similar pattern around that age where she'd wake up hungry in the middle of the night.  Make sure your son eats a good filling snack before bed and even keep something in his room that you can hand him in the dark to munch on.  I would keep the light off completely so he's not getting stimulated to get up and play.


You've gotten tons of helpful ideas here.  I hear your pain and hope it resolves itself quickly for you.  I remember searching the boards and reading frantically trying to figure out how to get some sleep and regain my sanity, but it's hard because every child, parent, and situation is different.  Remember that you can't take good care of your child unless you're taking good care of yourself.  hug2.gif


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#37 of 41 Old 07-14-2012, 08:51 PM
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I wonder if  he might actually be OVERtired and that's what this is about...does anyone have any experience with that?


So I have DEFINITELY heard that and experienced a little of it myself. 

My DD (13.5 mo. old) has had those midnight romps from time to time but her issue is bedtime and getting her down without raging hysterics - she's super curious and has a lot of trouble letting go of the day.  We seem to have 2-3 days a month of it and we're in the middle of a stretch right now.  I am actually having the EXACT same feelings you are about really really not wanting to CIO. I have heard SO much about the impermanence of it and it breaks my heart to hear it to and even to think about it - a friend suggested that I leave the house and have my husband do it, which is horrifying to me.

Anyway, back to the overtired thing, I have read (the no-cry sleep solution helped a bit) and also found that the best results (as far as getting dd to sleep) come when bedtime is between 8-9pm and trying to keep to a routine that starts like 30-45 mins before that.  We have been doing a lot of traveling and her napping seems to be changing (an hour nap at 5:30pm does not bode well for an 8pm bedtime) so I've had a lot of trouble keeping that routine and have had some 10:30pm bedtimes (the last 2 nights).


Also, I'm just gonna second what LilyKay said above.  I don't like to hear dd crying, but I do know now the difference - she's pissed, not terrified.  And I try and do a similar thing - pick her up and shush/comfort and lay her right back down and stay there.  Trying to communicate that my presence is there and she's safe and I love her, but crying won't make bedtime go away.

Thanks for posting this (it's gonna kick my butt into getting back into a routine) and good luck!

New mom who left a life at sea for my DH, my "firstborn", 10-month old puppy Betsy - Lab/Border Collie mix - and my DD Amelia, born June 2 and growing like a weed
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#38 of 41 Old 07-17-2012, 08:54 AM
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I work nights so in the mornings when I come home I am exhausted and I need a few hours of sleep. I feed my 12 month old breakfast and then nurse him. I then go into my tent I have set up in my bedroom. Yes, I said tent. Its big. It looks ridiculous. I have soft bedding in there with some pillows. I also have toys in there. I take him in there with me and I zip us up. He can't get out. He can't get hurt. He is with me. I feel comfortable drifting off to sleep while he plays.He will come and nurse whenever he wants.  We even sleep in there at nights when I have off. He enjoys it. I think it gives him comfort that he is able to play while mom is right there. Sometimes he will come and take a nap with me. He loves music so I will put on some nice soothing music. He likes the ocean nature sounds. All three of my kids have different sleep rythms. My daughter is a very early riser. Both my sons are night owls. Sometimes it is hard to take a deep breath and go with the flow especially when the reality is not ideal. I wish you and your family rest. I don't believe in CIO but I have gotten frustrated to where I have had to put my baby down in a safe place and walk away just to calm myself. Not really with my third but definitely with my second son. Also when the babies had any type of sleep issue it was "my fault" according to my husband because we "didn't just put the baby down in the crib like normal people". It really made me angry and it was not helpful to our situation. I told him how it upset me and how it really did nothing to help us. He agreed and tried to not use that against me. We try to be a team even when we are sleep deprived and frustrated.

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#39 of 41 Old 07-19-2012, 04:54 AM
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Wow! So many cool ideas! The tent thing is freaking genius! I wish I would have thought of that about 19-years-ago (w/Mr. Stunt Nurser).


PR-You must just be at your wits end. I hate when that comes, and stays. It's one thing when they do this stuff once-in-awhile, but this sounds like a nightly thing. I remember just sobbing when my husband left for work. I would beg for him to stay home, just so I could sleep...anything. He never would (I left his sorry butt, too). If you have ONE kid it's easier, but I had 4 at the time, so you can''t just go to sleep when the baby does. It was much easier with my 'second set' of 4, and a younger husband who helped (yup, I robbed the cradle of a man 10 years younger than me-that was 16 yrs and 4 baby boys ago-ha). Even when they help and say "Go take a nap," you end up reading or staying awake somehow because being alone is so welcome!

Another thing you could try is what they do at my Church. Kids go into the service with parents, but they are expected to be quiet-ish for that part of the day. Of course it's a good idea, but yeah, right. Anyway, they all have a Parenting Room that has one-way glass into the chapel and the microphone is on speaker into the room. There's other rooms like a breastfeeding room if you want to hide out while you feed, and one for kids that just can't be still or quiet. (or like mine, autistic and he gets antsy and needs to move (his 'stimming' is running and yelling a strange pattern, aka: his Happy Noise). But....dang, I totally get off-topic don't I? LOL, sorry!

OKAY!!! In the first room, the Parenting Room, the parent takes the child and sits on the floor, baby (after about 1-yr) or kid on their lap and that is IT. No playing, joking around, etc. unless a need must be met/feeding/really needs to play or move. Usually it takes a few times before they realize the fun stuff is in the chapel on Mama or big bro or sis lap! Crayons, paper, books, etc. WAY more fun. If you attend to needs only, no crying will be necessary-no talking, playing, etc. Maybe try the tent thing along with it. Baby ain't going anywhere!!!

I wish I could be there and let you have a few kick-butt nights of sleep : (

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#40 of 41 Old 07-19-2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by The4OfUs View Post

For the record, in my above post when I wrote my daughter was "mad" I wouldn't play with her, it was like her daytime mad when she'd throw a fit and then get over it and go off and play...not a "ignore your kid while they sob for you" kind.  Just don't want any misunderstandings, there.....

Just wanted to clarify that I hope you didn't think I was grouping you into the CIO crowd with my earlier (now deleted? ) post. I think that's totally different.
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#41 of 41 Old 07-20-2012, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AdinaL View Post

Good morning!  I have removed the posts that were advocating CIO.  Please remember that Mothering does not wish to host the promotion of CIO or other harsh sleep training methods.  Furthermore, the OP has said that is not something she wishes to do, so keep the advice topical. 


Thank you!


Wow, and now you've just driven me away. Talk about closed minded.

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