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#31 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 12:30 AM
 
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DD was pretty attached to me and DH for a long time. In the past few months, she has really blossomed and is growing more independent and willing to go to people she knows more than she used to. Now when we visit friends or family that she knows well, it is like, "forget you Mama and Daddy, I off to play with these folks!" I just started taking her to a drop off playgroup and was recently told by her when I didn't leave fast enough, "Go away, Mama." I am so happy that we waited as long as we did to leave her, until we feel that she is ready. We have let her with a babysitter here and there when it was necessary and she didn't always like it, but now she really digs hanging with other people. Point of my story: be there for your babe when he shows signs of needing you. He will not always be clingy and soley attached to you. I would not unnecessarily push him into situations where he needs to be away from you to teach him how to be less dependent on you. It could well backfire. DD was over 2 when she started needing us a bit less. Could be right around the corner for your son.

And just remember, this too shall pass. Sounds like you are dealing with less than supportive people around you. Anyway you can hang with more like-minded folks so that you get some support for you and don't feel so isolated with your parenting choices?
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#32 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 09:32 AM
 
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Ok, I am a WAHM. I run an insurance business (Aflac) out of my basement and have had to deal with the phone issue a lot. Here's my solution: LET HIM TALK ON THE PHONE!! Really, it's a like a 3 second conversation, you promt him to say hello, my name is XYZ and bye bye.

If the person is a social aquaintence, they just love talking to my daughter and are used to the drill. The business side knows I have a 3 1/2 yr old and I know the ones who don't think it's unprofessional (I've even brought her with me on some slaes calls - everyone knows I do this to go with her schedule, so it's like Bring Your Daughter to Work Day). But if the business line rings I do try to hide when I answer it just in case.

He sees you excited about being on the phone and wants to model what you do, there is NOTHING clingy about that. Your mom on the other hand is acting like she is two and frankly, I would have yelled back "Mom, you're having a fit go have a time out, in this house we don't slam doors" She wants to act like a child, then treat her like a child.

BTW, I live in Berks County PA, a conservative spare the rod spoil the child who needs to be trained community. I was the only one who breastfead past 1 year (and still do). My daughter has NEVER been outside my presence or my aunt's presence (who lives with us as "nana"). Does this make her cautious around other adults she dosn't know well ... YES ... do I mind? ... NO Because this makes her less likely to be stolen by some stranger, I know she will scream like she's on fire for mommy.

My mother lives in Maine, like 10 hours away and sees my daughter almost never but they have built a relationship. If your mother would spend more time with your son doing things that he likes, like building trains (my mom is an electrical engineer and my daughter loves Thomas) they could build common ground. My daughter sings "Itsy Bitsy Spider" and "ABC" to my mom on the phone and "talks" to her ans has done this since she was two.

She is 3 1/2 and she knows my mom drives a Yellow car and that she makes trains for her. I know that she misses my mom when she tells me "Grandma comming in the yellow car to make trains for Alexa, Yes?" AP has done this, not "independence", my daughter knows that it's important to connect with other people.

Is your son around other kids his age? If he is not clingy when he's with them then I really woudn't worry about it. Mine is an only child and I took her to Gymboree for about a year and at first she was shy with other kids. Now she's in ballerina classes and pushes me out the door so class can start. But she still dosn't like adults, particularly men.

But your son may just be shy and that's OK! Read William Pollack's Real Boys: Rescuing Our Sons from the Myths of Boyhood {www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805061835/} and you will know you are doing the right thing. (check it out from the library or buy it, it's work the money) Make your hubby, mother, father, FIL & MIL read it too, they may realize why you are doing what you do and that's it's actually right.

Based on Pollack's groundbreaking research at Harvard over two decades, Real Boys explores why many boys are sad, lonely, and confused although they may appear tough, cheerful, and confident. Pollack challenges conventional expectations about manhood and masculinity that encourage parents to treat boys as little men, raising them through a toughening process that drives their true emotions underground. Only when we understand what boys are really like, says Pollack, can we help them develop more self-confidence and the emotional savvy they need to deal with issues such as depression, love and sexuality, drugs and alcohol, divorce, and violence. Here's blurb on it:
Quote:
Listening to the author William Pollack read Real Boys, it doesn't take long to find out that being a boy these days isn't all fun and games. As codirector of the Center for Men at McLean Hospital/Harvard Medical Center, Pollack has seen behind the stoic masks of troubled, modern boys as they struggle to cope with the mixed messages, conflicting expectations, and increasingly complex demands they receive from our evolving society. "New research shows that boys are faring less well ... that many boys have remarkably fragile self-esteem, and that the rates of both depression and suicide in boys are frighteningly on the rise."

What are parents to do? They could start by listening to the author's thoughts on contemporary child-rearing techniques, analysis of the root causes of many male behavior problems, and recommendations for avoiding all-too-common pitfalls. In Real Boys, Pollack draws upon nearly two decades of research to support his theories and makes an impressive assault on the popular myths surrounding the conventional definition of masculinity.

While listening to Real Boys, it is important to remember that Pollack is a psychologist, not a professional narrator. His enunciation is less than perfect and his reading sometimes strikes a clinical tone, but his intelligent writing and the obvious concern he holds for this important subject help carry a passionate message and compensate for any vocal shortcomings. --George Laney
You may also want to pick up the Real Boys Workbook: The Definitive Guide to Understanding and Interacting With Boys of All Ages: www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375755268/

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Pollack continues his fight against dangerous gender stereotypes with this essential, satisfyingly hefty volume for parents, teachers, and coaches of boys. He aims to crack the "boy code" (basically, society's unfair assumption that boys are testosterone-driven animals who must convey machismo at all costs) by getting readers to reflect on their own thoughts, feelings, and habitual responses. Designed to stand on its own, Real Boys Workbook revisits material covered in Pollack's other books: spot-on anecdotes about boys and their parents, boys suppressing emotions, boys and sports, plus a humbling dose of smart suggestions for using empathy, shared activities, and respect to nurture their loving qualities. In addition, it provides a broad range of open-ended questions to lead well-intentioned readers toward a path of more constructive behavior.

Readers can easily zero in on chapters that will address their immediate concerns (including aggression, loss, competitiveness, and adolescence). And each chapter is accompanied by a thoughtfully composed set of questions. Some draw vivid scenarios for adults to ponder that are analogous to common boyhood experiences (like being dropped off at daycare), in which the boy is expected to keep a stiff upper lip. Others ask readers to critically examine their beliefs, observations, and typical responses to situations arising at school, at home, and on the ball field. Much of the broad self-awareness generated through Pollack's exercises will benefit folks who interact with children of either gender (a broad audience indeed). The trick will be getting this self-awareness into the hands of thosewho need it most. --Liane Thomas
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#33 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 09:49 AM
 
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Each child is different, and AP style of parenting isn't to blame. We adopted AP style with no. 2 b/c he was needy, it just came naturally to use. Our 1st was not needy and our 3rd is somewhere inbetween closer to not needy and we haven't stopped our AP style with the 3rd.
My mother gets on me for not having a play pen. I told her to go out an find one and I'd use it, she hasn't found on yet!
You've ruined her grandson is an appauling statement! Time to have an adult chat with mom about where her parental rights are and the reality that not all children go to other people even those in their family. (My sister for one and we were not raised in an AP home, if anything it was detacted parenting!)
Feeling for peace within your home go out to you
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#34 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 10:05 AM
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My son was soooo clingy for a long time. It's like he was attached to me. Sometimes I tried to gently get him away from me, but I found that if I embraced it and let him do what he needed he was better off. Now, he's almost 8yo and says "Bye Mom!" as he's on the way out the door to play with his friends. He's still a bit shy with people when he first meets them (as I am, so I totally understand that) and there are some people he's just not comfortable being around. I just don't push him. He's come a long way from the clingy days.
Hang in there. It's really all worth it.
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#35 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 11:08 AM
 
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AP can LOOK like spoiling in the early years, but it is actually the best foundation for all the years that follow. If your mom is a gardener, does she "spoil" her plants by meeting all their needs in the early stages?

Here is the article I've written to help reassure AP moms. Your son needs you as much as he needs you. Trying to change that by ignoring his needs will only make him clingier. Keep up the good work!

Confessions of a Proud Mom

By Jan Hunt, M.Sc.

My son is 15 and has brought me nothing but...

"Trouble?"

I thought you'd say that! No, my son is 15 and has brought me nothing but joy.

"You're kidding! How did you do that?"

I am proud of my son but, unfortunately, I cannot take personal credit. His father and I were simply fortunate enough, after a some missteps at the start, to read insightful parenting books and magazines, and to explore parenting issues with knowledgeable and compassionate friends. Today he is the most caring, thoughtful, and generous person I know.

"Tell me, please! What did you do?"

Well, we did everything we were told by society not to do. He slept next to us, breastfed for several years, was never punished, threatened, bullied, or teased, and was allowed to express anger as well as happiness...

"Oh, you spoiled him?"

Well, let's examine that word. The dictionary defines "spoil" as "to cause to demand or expect too much by overindulgence." In my dictionary, this is the third definition. It mirrors the common usage of this word in our society. This definition denotes a cause and effect: overindulgence, it says, causes spoiling. But is this belief true? Or does this definition merely represent a widespread misunderstanding of the true nature of children's behavior? A definition that would be accurate in terms of the way children actually learn and react is the first one listed: "to damage or injure, to destroy."

What actually spoils a child, what actually damages, injures, and destroys vital qualities in the child are the other choices of parental behavior: punishment, separation, and rejection. These experiences spoil a child's inborn sense of trust, capacity to love, creativity, and potential for joy. Robbing a child of these treasures is surely one of the most harmful acts a human can perform.

"So the proof is in the pudding?"

Exactly. Adolf Hitler was frequently and severely abused in childhood. As an adult, he expressed the anguish and pain of those years in ways that brought about misery and suffering for millions. By comparison, Albert Einstein was cherished by his parents. His mother was accused of "spoiling" him. Yet Einstein became not only one of the world's greatest scientists, but a most gentle, caring man, deeply concerned about social issues.

"Where do I find the kind of information which helped you?"

Read Compleat Mother, Empathic Parenting, or Mothering magazines. Talk with midwives. Meet with caring mothers in La Leche League and other breastfeeding support groups. Read books by Alice ******, Joseph Chilton Pearce, Tine Thevenin, and John Holt. Meditate and listen to what your heart tells you. Truly believe that your baby will let you know what is right... and what is wrong.

"How can a baby tell me this?"

Babies come into the world with perfect love and trust. They do not suspect, mistrust, play mind games, doubt motives, or in any way cloud communication unless and until this trust is betrayed by such painful experiences as punishment, rejection, and separation. A baby's smiles and tears are the most potent form of communication on this planet.

"What about the mistakes I've already made?"

There are no perfect parents. While we have all made mistakes, punishing ourselves is no more effective or reasonable than punishing our children. Loving ourselves and understanding that we have done as well as we could have with the information and inner strength we had at that moment, is as important as loving and understanding our children. All we can do is put forth the love that we feel, recognize the critical importance of parenting, and continue to discover compassionate ways of relating to the children we are blessed with.

"What are the most important things a parent should know?"

Two things: First, in our society, it is assumed that children and adults, for some unexplained reason, operate on two separate and distinct principles of behavior. We adults know that we behave at our best toward those who treat us with kindness, patience, and understanding. Yet children are presumed to behave in the opposite way; that is, behave best toward those who threaten, punish, and humiliate them. If we try to pinpoint the age at which this mysterious transformation from "children's principles of behavior" to "adult principles of behavior" occurs, we are at a loss, because there is no such transformation. There is no difference between the "operating principles" of children and adults: we all behave as well as we are treated.

The second important consideration is that so-called "bad behavior" is really a blessing in disguise, as it affords the best opportunity for learning about life. If punishment is introduced at that point, this golden opportunity is lost, because the child's attention is taken away from the matter at hand, and drawn into feelings of humiliation, anger and revenge. Further, superficial "good behavior" obtained through threats and punishment can only take place until the child is old enough to fight back; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. But trust, kindness and empathy, kept intact within the child from birth, and strengthened by parental examples of those qualities, will last a lifetime.

"I see. It's all a matter of trusting children, of recognizing that children may be less experienced and smaller than we are, but that they are equally deserving of being treated with dignity and respect. From newborns to centenarians, all human beings behave as well as they are treated.

Precisely. In parenting, as in all human relationships, let us give only love and love is all we will receive.

Jan Hunt, M.Sc.
Director of The Natural Child Project
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#36 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 01:09 PM
 
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my 2 cents- HE'S 2!
ot- kristen, our children share a birthday!
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#37 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 06:26 PM
 
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Jan it's so nice to see you here!

If this doesn't sum it all up I don't know what does:

Quote:
Adolf Hitler was frequently and severely abused in childhood. As an adult, he expressed the anguish and pain of those years in ways that brought about misery and suffering for millions. By comparison, Albert Einstein was cherished by his parents. His mother was accused of "spoiling" him. Yet Einstein became not only one of the world's greatest scientists, but a most gentle, caring man, deeply concerned about social issues.

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
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#38 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 06:28 PM
 
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hang in there! we ap our high needs 15 mo old. and yes, it can be challenging at times. you are responding to his needs. and thats a good thing! it will help develop a strong sense of security and confidence in the long run. but hey, they aren't this needy for too long and i will bet you will truly miss it when they are grown up and not so "clingy"! you need to do what feels right in your heart. i look at other children in my family that weren't ap (like nieces and nephews) and see how independent they are, but as i take a closer look, most of those children are living in survival mode. how sad is that. they are so needy for love and attention from others, i just don't want to think about what will happen when they become teenagers. i know that is extreme but i am just speaking from my heart and ap is the way to go!!!!!!

happy to be home!!!!
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#39 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 06:31 PM
 
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Hi,

I agree with what Leatherette said.

My answer for a lot of my daughters actions and reactions is "Get off it. She's 3 and she's Lyndsey." Some days she's a social butterfly and some days she is velcroed to my leg. My daugher will find her way and so will your son and all the other ap'd babies. We just need to remember to give them roots so they can find their wings.

Lyndsey's mom
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#40 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by geekgolightly
IMO, you're AP if you respond to your daughter's cues. That's all it takes. The rest of the stuff is if it fits with your life.
That's it exactly. There is no check list.
Lyndsey's mom
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#41 of 55 Old 06-22-2004, 11:34 PM
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Hi, I believe what so many have said. But I would like to add my own experiance. My mother doesn't understand the way I raise my boys (5 & 2), and she lives far away. But after having my second one, and really developing my confidence, she can see how much I love them and even told me I'm the best mom in the world, that from someone who felt like your mom, for 2 years after Griffin was born. My mom has had some abuse from her own mom, and is pretty emotionally imature.
The other thing I'd like to say is I finally got a baby sitter this year. He is so wonderful with the kids, and I never worry a bit when I'm gone. His mom is my good friend. Well, I think some people I will never feel totally comfortable leaving my kids with (my mom), but you will know in your body when you do feel comfortable, it will happen. And then you will be able to go out. My kids never complain when Erin(babysitty) comes over, they look forward to it for days.
So I add this to the tons of good advice you've already been given.
peace & love, nat
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#42 of 55 Old 06-23-2004, 12:11 AM
 
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Above the issues with your mom, what I'm hearing from you is that you are concerned that you're 'doing this wrong' because he is so clingy. So I have some questions for you, because AP *can* be over done- trying to anticipate the needs of your child before they express them, not allowing htem to learn how to self soothe (at their pace, of course), etc., can set you up for an emotionally over-dependent child who requires your presence for emotional stability, beyond what is really normal. I hope that makes sense.

So I would say look at the sitaution- are you allowing him to play with other kids his age? Do you ever let other people comfort him when he is upset? WHat is your reaction to him when he gets upset? How would he deal with you taking 30 minutes to run to the store (to wander, who cares if you actually need something or not!) and get some time off for yourself and acclimate him to depending on others for short periods of time... that sort of thing. I know one mother who babies (yes, I said it!) her 5yo so much that he is completely incapable of dealing with his emotions. He is a very volatile, angry child who physically hurts her when he is upset, and she completely buckles to it, speaking baby talk to him, cuddling him like he is an infant, etc. I'm not saying these things are bad in themselves, but she is not doing him any favors wavering between that behavior and screaming/spanking him because she's at her complete end of her ability to cope. I hope this makes sense!

I know it can be really hard to let kids figure things out on their own but it's so important!

I'm not sure if this even applies to you, I"m just responding to what I 'sensed' from your post.

GOod luck!

Kristina in Kitsap County, WA
Doula, Student Midwife, Mama, Wife & More
http://redspiral.blogspot.com
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#43 of 55 Old 06-23-2004, 02:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tilly2321
THank you all for candor and kind words. I just want to know if maybe I could be doing something wrong. I really think DS is the one of the most clingy children I know and he is one of the only ones that I know is AP. No one else I knows co-sleeps or even thinks about slinging at this age (mostly hip carrier or backpack for us now though). It seems like it is all backfiring on me. Does anyone else ever feel this way?

One danger we AP moms face, I think, is that we may become too child centered. You may be so eager to meet your child's needs that you aren't setting firm enough limits. Are you familiar with the continuum concept? It stresses the importance of strong attachment without becoming child centered. The idea is that the children should be orbiting us as we go about our lives and we incorporate them into things and are with them, responding to their needs, but we do not orbit them.

I'm not putting it well, though. Check out http://www.continuum-concept.org/ and in particular http://www.continuum-concept.org/rea...InControl.html .

- Kittymom

Mom, , to DS(10), , , due November 3, 2014, and 4 's: 4/01, 7/01, 9/01, and 12/13. DP to .

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#44 of 55 Old 06-23-2004, 09:06 AM
 
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I think what Kristina is referring to certainly does exist, but it is not what I would call attachment parenting - I would call it overanxious parenting. Overanxiousness is quite different from AP - in fact nearly the opposite. A truly AP parent meets her child's needs; an overanxious one meets her own needs for reassurance and comfort. Our U.S. culture often confuses the two, unfortunately. How to tell them apart? In relating to your child, trust what your heart tells you.

The Continuum Concept is a wonderful and inspiring book, but the last part, which tries to sort out the difference between AP and anxiety, has always felt a bit confusing to me, perhaps because the author is not a parent herself. It is only natural and normal for a loving parent to be concerned about her child's welfare. Let's not confuse overanxiety with loving concern, especially in this culture, which has so many more dangers than a natural society would have.

From Elle's description of her own parenting, I think it's clear that she is the loving mom of a child who is "acting like a two-year-old" - because he IS - and her responses are those of a compassionate, loving parent.

Jan Hunt
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#45 of 55 Old 06-23-2004, 05:36 PM
 
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MIL lives far away and wanted Dd to be like "all the other kids who go to everyone." When Dd was two, she complained Dd was "worse than ever." At the moment she said it, I was reading an article in Mothering about how the well-attached two year old will be even more attached than they were at the age of one. MIL said that I was making Dd fearful of others, becaue every time she looked in my direction and whimpered around company, I'd get her from whoever whe was with. "She didn't even cry," she'd say, as if I should have waited for outright distress. MIL's answer was for Dh and me to leave Dd alone with her, "so she'll have no choice but to go to me."

Now Dd is almost three, and LOVES MIL. Everything that MIL thinks is great about her, is because, I'm certain, of the AP stuff we did. To address some of the potential downsides discussed in the thread, being AP has nothing to do with failure to set proper limits. Sensing when it's appropriate to deny your child something or set some limit, is as important in creating a secure environment, as knowing when they need to be held. (When I tell Dd that I am keeping my seat on the couch, even though she is commanding "get off get off it's mine it's mine," is teaching her to stand her own ground, a good lesson for this child who is too eager to leave a piece of playground equipment when another child walks over...I got a little OT here.)

But back to MIL, Dd is very eager to go to her (because she was never coerced into being with her). She is very snuggly (because she is comfortable with physical affection). MIL gets a kick out of her confident demeanor (because we fostered a deep sense of security in her world).

.
Does MIL make any of these connections? Of course not! In part, because the nature of both my IL's personalities is to take anything that Dh and I do differently from them, as a statement that they did it wrong. But the connections are clear to me. I enthusiastically have and enthusiastically pour my heart into AP-ing Dd. Let others say what they may, listen to your heart for the answers.
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#46 of 55 Old 06-23-2004, 06:01 PM
 
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: Okay, my turn to stop lurking,

Everything said is very good. I love to see like minded parents post. I think DS is clingy right now because of the changes in his life. An adult who is capable of slamming doors and yells is frightening enough for an adult-imagine a small child. It sounds to me that this anger could have been built up in Grandma since her "space" was invaded, DS is not turning cartwheels over her and she is taking it personally, and her daughter parents in a way society did not allow her(Grandma) to do when she was parenting young children.

DH and I have always practiced AP with DD even though we did not know we were doing until she was about 6 mo's old. I read a book about it and said- oh thats what I do. We always tell people who thinks AP makes children clingy- good. If she were not clingy, she'd move out. Our daughter is not clingy by any stretch of the imagination. But she is shy for a time when in a new situation. Also, if another child is visably upset, she attaches herself to me or DH.

I think that its okay for a parent to take a break from their child. It helps the relationship and also shows the child, I can do this! But there are limits. Only you know what those limits are. Dinner out for one family is a weekend away for another. Friends of ours have gone on a week's vacation and left their twins with a very trusted aunt. This is something we could not even think of doing. Not because of DD, but we would not like it. But we do dates almost every two weeks or so. This shows her we appreciate our marriage. I think down the road, we will do overnights with cousins etc, but when we are all ready. right now, I have a babysitter one morning a week and my parents and IL's love alone time with her as much as she loves it.

"The true joy of life is the trip. The station is only a dream. It constantly out distances us."
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#47 of 55 Old 06-23-2004, 10:08 PM
 
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Hello!
BTDT--my oldest was completely AP, and very clingy, and I caught much grief for it from family, but now he's the most well-adjusted five year old around, and everyone wants to know how we did it. Well we can't take all the credit, but I really believe being there for your kids, teaching them to respect you by respecting them, and honoring their feelings, especially when they are scared or overwhelmed (he's just moved to a whole new environment, and if there is tension in your lives he will feel it doubly) all makes for a big adjustment. AP really is about the long run. And your ds's behavior is so age-appropriate!!! That's really a good thing!!!
Having said that, make sure you take breaks for yourself. A mama who is burnt out is no good to her children, or herself.
Hang in there!
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#48 of 55 Old 06-24-2004, 08:40 AM
 
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One other thought....I believe ap'ing is a parenting style that depends on family support, not being a 1 or 2 person effort. I don't think the best possible situation is ap'ing with no family support - or anti-support. Ap'ing can be a challenge with no support and I know it has for this reason been difficult for many, including me. And not just emotional support, but real tangible help especially in the first months.
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#49 of 55 Old 06-24-2004, 06:33 PM
 
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Just want you to know how my very shy, velcro daughter turned out twelve years after I started out with her using attachment parenting and breastfeeding until she was 5 (just at night)! She has become a very confident, centered, secure child who sings, dances, acts out roles, etc, and definitely not shy or clingy anymore. I ignored my mother-in-law who thought I carried her too much when she was a baby, ignored my mom who thought I shouldn't breastfeed after the first year, and tried to stay sensitive to her needs to be close to me those first few years knowing that if I pushed her away she would become even more clingy. It wasn't always easy, and she did go to Montessori (hiding in the cubby room the first 20 min. each morning), and I did have to explain to her when she was 6 that being shy was no excuse for being rude and not looking at people when they spoke to you, etc. But I am a firm believer in attachment parenting and breastfeeding. We have stayed physically and emotionally close, which is a real joy!
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#50 of 55 Old 06-24-2004, 10:24 PM
 
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Hi, I recently read an advice column in our Sunday paper written by a child psychologist and he said the age of your child is when they start to want their independence but are afraid of venturing out on their own. His advice was to always be there when they need support and they will sooner rather than later learn it's ok to venture out b/c you will be there if needed. follow your gut instincts you know what is best for your child! hope this helps!

dena
proud mom of Julia and my new petunia Caroline 06-16-04
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#51 of 55 Old 06-24-2004, 10:44 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Wildcrafter]One other thought....I believe ap'ing is a parenting style that depends on family support, not being a 1 or 2 person effort. I don't think the best possible situation is ap'ing with no family support - or anti-support. Ap'ing can be a challenge with no support and I know it has for this reason been difficult for many, including me. And not just emotional support, but real tangible help especially in the first months.[/QUOTE

It would be nice, but it can't be necessary. I say that because I'm trying my darndest to be a good attached single mama without much in the way of tangible support at all. While I don't think I am managing as well as if I had more regular help, and certainly not getting nearly enough sleep, I think we are pretty securely attached. My DS is almost 5 months old.

I do hope it gets easier, though.

Mom, , to DS(10), , , due November 3, 2014, and 4 's: 4/01, 7/01, 9/01, and 12/13. DP to .

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#52 of 55 Old 06-27-2004, 03:43 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Kittymom]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildcrafter
One other thought....I believe ap'ing is a parenting style that depends on family support,[/QUOTE

While I don't think I am managing as well as if I had more regular help, and certainly not getting nearly enough sleep, I think we are pretty securely attached. My DS is almost 5 months old.

I do hope it gets easier, though.
It gets "different".
Things you do become automatic. Then your DS will become a toddler and life changes. He will walk into another room. Do you follow or wait to see if he crys or call out for you.

DD is now 3 1/2. Much harder then at 2. She gets frustrated and has a melt down. It's hard not to say "shut up". It's hard not to smack her when she is doing what she wants and there is a need for her to be doing something different. It's hard not to spank when she runs out into the road. HOWEVER, she's learning that stop means stop. Much easier then when she didn't have verbal skills. Oh, she's also at the age where she can tell me what's going on in her world.

I'm sure our world will settle down but then we'll hit the teen years and the changes will start again.

Hugs to you and DS,
Lyndsey's mom
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#53 of 55 Old 06-28-2004, 09:24 AM
 
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I never knew what AP was when I had my older two, but now know that that's us! Everyone used to comment on how "spoiled" my son was because I carried him everywhere, he'd whine for me, etc. I remember commenting to my aunt that he was only 2! If he was 8 and still wanted me to carry him around with his hand between my breasts (down my shirt), THEN we had a problem she could address.

Well, guess what? He's 8 now and he's the most well-adjusted, helpful, polite, popular little boy around. He is truly a JOY!

AND, I'm not carrying him around with his hand down my top, haven't done that since he was about 4. *LOL*

I guess it helped that my mom was a young (17 when she had me) hippy momma back in the day, I never got the comments from her, thankfully.
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#54 of 55 Old 06-28-2004, 11:34 AM
 
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All of this advice is awesome-thanks for keeping this a support forum and not a debate!

Another way to describe spoiling (although Kimber did an excellent job, I am adding to not disagreeing in any stretch of the imagination):
When you leave milk in the fridge way past its expirtn date. You forgot about it and it spoiled. Sometimes you may be away from your home for a day or two and come back and see a very rotton apple. That is spoiled. Usually you throw away the bad food and start over. If you forget about your child (such as forgetting about the spoiled food), they will spoil as well. My SIL is queen of spoiling. Her two daughters play second fiddle to her real estate career. She is constantly inturrupted by her cell phone to go off and speak about this big deal or that big deal. Her older daughter has to throw a tantrum to get any sort of attention from her parents. I have witnessed her say to this 13 yr old child: "If you stop I'll buy you a game boy tomorrow."
SIL feels it is more important to have a big house, a new mercades, and very expensive everything. Its sad, since her girls are very nice and easy going when they're with me.

These kids need more one on one attention with Mom and do not need to be put on the back burner to slowly simmer.

"The true joy of life is the trip. The station is only a dream. It constantly out distances us."
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#55 of 55 Old 06-30-2004, 03:57 PM
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tilly, I would say that if you only have doubts because of a freaked-out, stressed-out Grandma, then put her in her place and move on... but you seem to already have reservations of your own.
IMO AP is about having an empathic connection with your child so you can sense what they need; it's not about which medical procedures you refuse to take part in, or which piece of baby equipment you would never use. It's not about political beliefs or broad social issues. It's about raising YOUR KID as if s/he is the first and only child ever born and nobody else's style is going to work for them. Can you think of a more loving way to raise a child? In order to do it, you have to be in arms reach, you have to be attentive. If you have doubts about your own style, modify it and see what happens. There's no reason to follow a set of rules if you're feeling uncomfortable. And there's no reason not to let your child go into the world and explore it with other people, sometimes. A few hours a few days a week in nursery school next year sounds like a fine idea, if you think your child needs to start exploring the world beyond your lap.

As far as the dependency issue
My AP Dd has been independent from day one... the only part of me she clung to was the breast! Seems to me that AP fulfills her need for intimacy, and then her independent spirit kicks in and she's off and running, doing her own thing.
That's just her personality. On the other hand...
The most clingy child I know is my dear friend's son, a few months older than my daughter, and he certainly didn't have the AP advantage. DF is the type of mother who will pull a child by the ear if he isn't moving fast enough, who discusses other peoples' sex lives in front of her kids as if they are mindless, who never responds to anything her children say until they've said it 11 times and then she snaps at them for bugging her You'd cling to your mother, too, if you weren't sure she knew you were alive!
Anyway, I agree that children are born with certain propensities and our parenting styles can exaggerate what G*d or DNA gave them.
And I totally agree with this:


I'm sorry that was novel :
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