Yep, we're still here~Nov/Dec '02 mommas&babies~ - Page 15 - Mothering Forums

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#421 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 10:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by casina
i braved the hordes and traffic going to a store today and it's just funny. the shelves completely emptied are bread and beer.
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#422 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 05:11 PM
 
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Well my friend had her baby last night. In the hospital. With an epidural. And she said it was the most amazingly peaceful experience. Compared to her first, no epidural, it was a dream, she said. She got to hold the baby almost immediately afterwards. He's very mellow, latched on immediately with a good, strong suck. She sounds so grounded and rooted and present and strong. It was a fast, harmonious labor compared to her first long, drawn out, painful, exhausting labor that left her with lots of stitches and a good 6 mos of recovery.

I have to admit it it sounds pretty good to me. I had ds in the water with no meds and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. I know there are tons of studies that show the negative effects of epidurals and then there's the whole psychic component so it's still a question for me but she just sounded so amazingly peaceful and strong which is what's sparked this little monologue.

Speaking of which I wonder how Heather is doing?
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#423 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 07:57 PM
 
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Has anyone heard from Kristin (kerc) lately?
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#424 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 08:02 PM
 
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i have been worndering the same thing brayg.... i imagine she is jsut loaded down by school/work.


solstice mama- yeah, while i was in labor i thought that to not feel pain would be nice. but i would never trade my med free home birth labor for ANYTHING!!!!
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#425 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 08:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *solsticemama*
Well my friend had her baby last night. In the hospital. With an epidural. And she said it was the most amazingly peaceful experience. Compared to her first, no epidural, it was a dream, she said. She got to hold the baby almost immediately afterwards. He's very mellow, latched on immediately with a good, strong suck. She sounds so grounded and rooted and present and strong. It was a fast, harmonious labor compared to her first long, drawn out, painful, exhausting labor that left her with lots of stitches and a good 6 mos of recovery.

I have to admit it it sounds pretty good to me. I had ds in the water with no meds and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. I know there are tons of studies that show the negative effects of epidurals and then there's the whole psychic component so it's still a question for me but she just sounded so amazingly peaceful and strong which is what's sparked this little monologue.

Speaking of which I wonder how Heather is doing?
I know that lots of women are obsessed with natural labor and birth as the one and only way to go, but I have to tell you that I found my ceserian delivery to be a much more pleasant experience overall than my vaginal delivery. I labored naturally for more than three days and got nothing but pain for my efforts; the only part of my labor with BeanBean which I don't regret to this day was when I finally got an epidural.

With BooBah, I never had any labor at all because she turned, broke my water, and her cord prolapsed all without me having a single contraction. (Well, that's not quite true: I had two contractions while she was turning, but they weren't "real".) She was born by emergency cesearian, and while I do wish that I had experienced some labor (I had a hard time making the transition from "pregnant" to "mama" with her) I had planned to have an epidural when it was appropriate.

I am at my mother's house, and my sister is downstairs yelling and swearing very loudly because BeanBean had an accident on the floor. He *always* has accidents here because this house is very very loud and stressful. Just *being* here is stressful. She's throwing a fit about how nasty we are, screaming at the top of her lungs that "he needs to wear a f****** diaper or a f****** pullup or he needs to get the f**** out of this house! If the dog pissed on the floor like that he'd be out!" (Note: The dog, which she bought because she insisted on having it, barks and screams and cries all the time. She rarely walks it, and only occasionally is she the person who lets the dog out into the yard.)

Now that BeanBean is nursing with me, she's yelling at her own children, swearing at them to "change that god damned shirt!" and "find your other f***** shoe!" My niece came storming up stairs, fists clenched and grumbling. "Now do you see why I hate my mother?!? She's evil and mean, she made me change my pants because I slipped." and continuing on and on like that. Then she said to her self, in a more calm voice, "It doesn't really matter, I'm going home with Rynna tomorrow."

Earlier this afternoon, she asked my mother "Why can't Rynna just buy me? She has a really nice family!" She goes on and on like this, all the time. She really thinks that if I just save up some money, I'll be able to buy her and she can stay in my house forever. What a wreck. I really can't blame her for wanting to stay with me; her only problems with my house are that we don't have any junk food or sugary cereal around, we don't have a freezer, and it's kind of messy. That's nothing on this house. She seriously wants me to adopt her. When she got to the house she said "Can I call BeanBean my brother now? Please? I really want a little brother!" I asked if I bought her, should I buy her sister too and she said "You don't have to, BooBah can be my sister." *sigh* What on earth do you say to that?

My younger niece has been asking to nurse every time she sees BeanBean doing it. She's four years old, not my child, and *huge* (44", 55 lbs). I told her that if she wants to nurse she'd have to ask her mother and she said "No, my mother hates me, my mother is leaved! I want to take a nurse with BeanBean!" and then began the pitiful, fake crying wail she does. (Oh yes, it's very fake.)

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#426 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My first birth was *agonizing* and I'd do it all over again if I had to. My second birth was what you sometimes read about ..."orgasmic, painless" birth. I'd (obviously) do that again too. :LOL I don't believe in the medicalization of birth, but to everyone, their own... if it worked for you, good.

eilonwy- sounds like your sis has some "issues". Maybe tell your neice that she's priceless, and no amount of money could buy her.
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#427 of 647 Old 09-16-2004, 11:03 PM
 
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whew! sorry about the nieces. i get the feeling that aunts can be important. it sounds like they just don't feel loved, and there are many ways to love if the mom chooses this path.

i think there are commonalities with births for the same mother, but the births can vary with each child. length of labor cannot be predicted. hospital births locally for me are very factory done which is why i did not choose that option - here they tend to epidural no matter what so that they can charge for it. i was talking to a lady pg with her 7th that had her last one here and she is still mad that they pitocined her at 39 weeks and epiduraled before she even dilated. i think it depends on the doctor and facility and the mamma's need for control. my births with back labor were very different from the one without back labor. and i think i really need to be alone because i am sensitive to vibes, especially my husband's. although i find him a comfortable presence, it is not exactly the soothing kind i want for labor. i want an unassisted if there is a next time because then i can focus on the bear energy without reminders of any other way, or reminders that i'm "supposed" to need help. i think the best part for me, aside from the wonderful feeling after, was not having to travel, even though i have an ability to get used to medicalized settings. birth in modern times can be very situational, and ultimately it comes down to the mother's control factor. i do also think that our bodies get more experienced each time, though that does not necessarily affect the pain factor.

i'm needed.....
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#428 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 12:05 AM
 
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i think generally when i hear birth stories, that technically the way the birth went is not a factor as much as the expectation, or feeling that any decisions were owned by the mamma. like even with a c-section, when a mother can say even in the five seconds before, i am okay with this, then it changes the way the situation is perceived even to the point of how she heals.

rynna, i thought about it some more and it seems your sister and her daughters are cut from the same cloth and reacting the same way, which is habitually wanting something besides what they have, and complaining and feeling upset. some people tend to go this route and i think you are in a position to be overly sensitive to it. i think it is definitely an unpleasant situation, but your perception of it may be worse than it actually is for any of them. at least they are used to each other. this wild idea i'm having here relates to how my own mom, and a "friend" operates. they both talk worse than they mean. and though it is hard for me when my friend's kids and husband feel badly and i cannot help, i have learned the hard way that they have emotional calluses in places i have no defense at all, and i have to just distance myself from it. only when i am strong and assertive can i gently influence the situation, which of course starts with forgiveness and giving love, especially to the mom. and i'm not quite that strong yet - still working on the homefront.

not even a raindrop over here! but a real off day for my dh. and i turn 34 tomorrow.
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#429 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 12:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by casina
even with a c-section, when a mother can say even in the five seconds before, i am okay with this, then it changes the way the situation is perceived even to the point of how she heals.
You know...I didn't have any regrets about my 2 c-sections until recently (the first was emergency...the 2nd was planned). The first one was harder to recover from because I labored, pushed, etc. and generally didn't know what to expect, but I didn't dwell on it and never felt cheated out of the whole birth experience. The 2nd was a breeze...I was totally confident in my decision then and still never felt cheated. I recovered in a snap and went about my life. I now long for a vaginal birth and if I get pg again, I will go for one.
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#430 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 12:22 AM
 
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: tomorrow Casina!
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#431 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 08:18 AM
 
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HAAAAAPPPYYYY BBIIIIIIITHDDAAAYYYYYY CASiNA!


HERE is a message from dd
:
222222242222220002222222222333411000gedsetfs
00000000
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#432 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 10:50 AM
 
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I'm loving this conversation about birth. I'm thinking a lot about how we will bring our next baby to our family. I am praying that we will be open to all options and if there is a baby out there that needs us that would be fine rather than getting pg again. We had started to look at adoption last time after 3 miscarraiges, then got pg with ds. I had an epidural with ds after about 15 hours of labor and being awake for 21 hours. I slept, woke up and pushed him out. I've been thinking lately about my options for next time. Meaning, to have the epidural again or not. I must admit that my pain tolerance is not what I expected it to be.

I just wonder what the plan for our little family is...I am excited to find out! So glad that you are not getting hammered Casina. I've been thinking about you this week. Happy Birthday. I am also anxious to hear about Heather.
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#433 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 04:49 PM
 
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: Birthday Blessings, Casina :

I've been thinking lots on my post about my friend's birth and everyone's subsequent responses.

*mamajaza* if everyone could birth like you did w/Samaya then of course one wouldn't want any intervention. I love knowing that you were able to give birth this way

Mona, I, too, am glad I went meds free because I think I would always wonder if I could have done it w/out them. A meds free waterbirth at the birthing center is what I aspired to w/ds and that's what I got.

casina your post makes me think that somewhere in your being you are completely surrendered. I think, ultimately, this has a profound effect on the way things unfold in a birth but the surrender has to be cellular not just in the mind YK.
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#434 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Happy Birth day, fellow virgo!
34 years... in numerology you are 3+4= 7... the number of the goddess.
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#435 of 647 Old 09-17-2004, 09:54 PM
 
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Hope you are having a wonderful day Casina

Well things have been a bit hectic around here lately. Dd wasn't feeling well for several days, and was nursing every hour for a full day. That brought back some memories, I had forgotten that full of milk feeling, the achiness and how sensitive breasts can be!

Dd is back to being a mama-only girl, which is flattering, but tiring too. Dh is trying to take it in stride but his feelings are hurt none the less. She seems to be making some gigantic leaps in her verbal skills and social skills too, which may have something to do with it. She will have NOTHING to do with the potty though I'm not sure why, but I'm not pushing. She is all about her "brookies" as she calls them. She has never been interested before, but now she loves to pick one out, loves to help fold them, etc. She really loves her new ones from Brayg They are SUPER soft, btw. Anyhow, a funny note about dd calling her dipes "brookies" she instigated that, and it took a few times before we understood that brookies means diapers. Well a week or so later I am reading "Don't Let's Go to the Dogs Tonight" which is an autobiography of sorts of growing up in Africa, where they call underwear Brookies!!!!! I was floored. It really makes you think, doesn't it, about past lives and such.

As for the discussion on birthing.... I think it is such a personal event. For me, I could never do an epidural. For me, I wanted to be present, I needed to be... I had such a lovely experience, no meds, it was everything I wanted it to be really. i was in water almost the entire time, at a birthing center. It was quiet and dark and intimate and beautiful. I'm looking forward to my next experience which I have decided will be at home and in water. For me it was all about being prepared, having the knowledge, understanding how my body works. Mamajaza, I aspire to your "orgasmic, painless" birth (you birthing goddess you) I would say that Mariah's birth was painless, it was intense, but painless. Orgasmic it was not, but maybe the second time around

Eilonwy, I am sorry you are in such a difficult position with your nieces.

I have been wondering about kerc too, and hoping that all is well with her and her family.

Also thinking about Heather and her new little one
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#436 of 647 Old 09-18-2004, 01:49 AM
 
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solsticemama, i'm wondering if you had back labor. also, i wonder if the pelvis shifts permanently after the first vaginal birth. i know my rib cage is certainly changed. i don't know what it is about birth exactly that makes it the way it is for different women. like i find it interesting that it is not an exact science to predict how a woman will birth, i guess that takes some experience of course, like getting to know hundreds of women and attending their births.

but i can't figure it out peripherally. i have one friend that has two c-sections and she has similarities to other women i know of that have had c-sections in this particular hospital (basically the baby factory of baton rouge). they tend to be a person that detests being sick and wants so much desperate control over the birth that the system backfires because everything gets so tense. but then i have a friend i love that i get mad at all the time with email that incessantly complains, tries every drug possible for her emotional and physical problems, won't leave her house or socialize or move even though her home drives her crazy, et cetera et cetera fostering an insane amount of control over every little thing and her body and her awful pregnancies, and she can give birth like a cat and has done it twice, her first in that same oppressive hospital, and her second was like five contractions and here's the baby. it's baffling.

i'm a goddess! well, i was sure acting like a huffy tempermental goddess a few minutes ago. my littles aren't convinced that sleeping every night is necessary.

i had dinner with my dh at the new trendy sushi bar by campus while my mom kept the kids. i had a good time even though i almost backed out, and we had cancelled trying to do it yesterday. it was our first date in three years (doctor appointments do not count! though they were kinda nice in a sad way too). i love getting older. though i noticed the other day that i have a crevice next to my brow. i would have never known or confessed before that i would be disturbed by a wrinkle.

at some point, kids definitely start to forge new bonds aside from the primary mom. and the new bonds are a little freer, less about comfort, less about being grounded and more about learning and enjoying life and it's zest. my dh can tell you all about how being the star of a fan club can be a huge and smothering responsibility. punk, i know your dh will get his time and when it does, you can roar with laughter about it because you'll be ready for it then(and come sit on the porch swing with me!) fun daddies are like rock stars, and the horde never stops aching for them.....until around age ten or so i've heard.....
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#437 of 647 Old 09-18-2004, 10:16 AM
 
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So i'm just wondering (yawn) if any one else's toddler isn't sleeping through the night just yet... tell me im not hte only one please (yawn)


Casina, I would love to come swing on your porch. Any time mama!
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#438 of 647 Old 09-18-2004, 10:19 AM
 
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omg no..... punk, you are not the only one :LOL
dd usually alternates bw decent nights and sucky nights. well, she has been on a roll of sucky nights for a few days and i'm tired of it, no pun intented. :LOL
she has a very sensitive tummy, so it is probably related to me not eating 100% pure. SIGH
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#439 of 647 Old 09-18-2004, 11:58 AM
 
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All the birth talk has me thinking more on ds's birth. No, Casina, no back labor but very very fast. Thus very intense. I think I went from 4 to 9.5 cms in about 2 hrs. I, too, am fascinated by the variables in the birth experience, you just never know how a woman will birth. I've been surprised by lots of my friends' birthing outcomes. Anyway lots still to think on privately.

No sleeping thru the night here. Not even close to it. But right now I have to admit I'm really enjoying nightnursing. I look forward to our time in bed with the dark as soft blanket over us and the silence and ds's little body curled into mine. There was a time I never imagined I would feel this way.
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#440 of 647 Old 09-19-2004, 08:10 PM
 
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have been away for a few days for the jewish holidays.

no sleeping thru the night here either. I nightweaned in early june and kept the 4 am nursing. she still wakes up most nights between 12-2 for water.

birthing....i had a very difficult 36 hour back labor birth. i had a midwife and a doula whom i ADORE and who supported me so much. no epidural, though i did have some stadol after 25 hours when i was still only 5 centimeters and really needed sleep. then after 3 hours at 9.5 she broke my water and i went back to 6 the water had been psuhing on the cervix not the baby. i got a little more stadol and some pitocin to get me back to 10. the drug wore off in time for 3 hours of pushing. still i am so grateful i didn't have an epidural or a c-section. my midwife told me that with a doc i would have had a c for sure based on how i progressed. i don't plan to have anymore though for a variety of reason including my labor.

birthdays ...... i will be 38 tuesdays YIKES that's old!

Amy
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#441 of 647 Old 09-19-2004, 08:11 PM
 
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Not even close to sleeping through here either. That's one of the things making me hedge about getting pg! I'll be so tired!
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#442 of 647 Old 09-20-2004, 12:59 AM
 
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no sleeping eight hours straight here. though i'm getting lots more sleep than ever. sometimes i can convince myself that uninterrupted sleep is a weird modern thing, that in another day and age, i would have to wake and tend a fire, or worry about rain or wolves or thieves. but then, i'm over the hypervigilance. my kids can all get up for a couple of hours and i will still be conked out. i have to get up when i hear reed's voice hit a different pitch which means i need to feed him some protein before he loses it. they all feed themselves when they get up now but the results vary.....

punkprincess, you sound so much like what i remember about with my first baby. i've probably said this before. it was very hard since i'm a night person and he is a morning person, and wakes early and ready, and he was so restless and shrieky otherwise. now when he sleeps he is really totally out though he still kicks and talks in his sleep (all the males in the family do...). i think it started around age of three and half. i know that sounds like forever from now but it is also the latest "sleeping through the night" (like five hours straight) age i've heard of.
really, i promise it will end at one time, before you menopause or before they can drive. i think the hardest for me with sleep deprivation is the lack of dreams and the fundamental issues with that. i used to take griffonia (5-htp) sometimes, maybe some of you are interested in trying that. it definitely helped me at times, especially during menstruation, but i would only take it for a few days at a time and the last time i felt bad afterwards for a few days. the other thing i learned four years into mothering reed was that whether i put him to bed at eight or ten or midnight, he still got up around the same time. i had to put him to bed before he looked or acted tired. after a week of ten hour nights he started to sleep better and feel better during the day.
oh, and cutting caffeine has always made a difference, though i have had to pick and choose the balance since i enjoy these vices. right now i'm off coffee and coca cola again, because ruby steals it! i guess she'll truly make an honest woman out of me. but i still think the best medicine for me is to get alone time, which is actually not alone, but away from responsibility time, and chatting with a friend in a public place long enough to appreciate the home life when i get back.


in fact now i'm confused that i would have to have no sleep again with another baby if i have one. i've been just moseying along for six years with the alteration of sleep. this is the oldest my youngest has ever been. she looks like a baby to me, but with the boys at this age i already saw them as "not the baby". once i would be near to having a littler one the older ones would suddenly seem huge and grown up and i would begin to treat them so.

i feel a little guilty here i can't even complain about ruby. she is like a four year old that doesn't talk or use the toilet, basically. she is an utter delight. i'm into a groove with the tandem nightnursing. they are my cuddles.

once the water breaks in labor, it is a wholly different thing as well. very intense.

me and dh spent most of the weekend looking for one piece of paper that we haven't found, and creating a vortex of bad feelings relating to everything in life. at least we got over it this afternoon, but then...we still haven't found it and it is an asap kind of thing. durned modern life and pieces of paper....
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#443 of 647 Old 09-20-2004, 09:06 AM
 
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beanbean came home from nicu sleeping 4.5-5 hours a night. recently, he's been getting up to pee and nurse, but he doesn't fully wake up. he's got a cold today, and spent the better part of yesterday in bed. i'm feeling sick and miserable, but i don't have a cold, just a general malaise. i'm sure the depression isn't helping. blah.

my water broke about 4 days before beanbean was born, after 12 hours of contractions with no pain pills (i'd been having regular, painful contractions for several months, with terbutaline and vicodin). i'm sill greatful for the epidural.

Rynna, Mama to Bean (8), Boobah (6), Bella (4) and Bear (2)
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#444 of 647 Old 09-20-2004, 11:04 AM
 
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She really loves her new ones from Brayg They are SUPER soft, btw.
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#445 of 647 Old 09-20-2004, 11:15 AM
 
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Brooke is doing much more than expected. Since she was already born 3 months early we had no idea she would be so advanced. I guess she is eager to catch up. She is starting to potty train. I only think so because her sisters are. She is miss chatty Kathy too! She repeats everything and remembers it in context. lol

She has had a cold with cough for about 2 weeks now and she is getting irritated by it all. She will cough and say "Uuggh, gross". And if she chokes on the phlegm she says "I chooking". (choking)

This age is SO much FUN!
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#446 of 647 Old 09-21-2004, 05:09 PM
 
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Went to see my friend and her 4 day old yesterday. Oy, it's hard. Her almost 2 yr. old is having a really difficult time adjusting, lots of emotional outbursts and nursing aggressively, he bit her. I didn't have much to be able to say to her since I've not walked that road before but I told her I'd post here 'cause some of you mammas are in this vibe right now or have been there? She was so upset, tears and fatigue because she felt she just couldn't be there for her son the way she has been in the past. Thankfully there is lots of extended family who have been able to meet some of his needs.

*mamaJ* and eilonwy, casina do you have any suggestions I could share with her?

I was able to get her fixed up with one of my slings and I left her looking happier than when I arrived. We got little babe high up on her front tummy to tummy, sleeping and mama's arms free and a smile. Definitely a reality check in terms of what it would be like with 2.

I'm feeling a little at sea right now 'cause she and I were in a great groove with the park and our boys. I was finally feeling more plugged in to the communal side of mothering YK which had positive residue in other aspects of life as well. Now it's back to solo for awhile *sigh* How 'bout everyone else? Do you get out with other moms and toddlers much? I have to admit that I find it hard when mothering philosophies vary greatly.
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#447 of 647 Old 09-21-2004, 06:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by casina
really, i promise it will end at one time, before you menopause or before they can drive. ....


how do you always know the right thing to say Casina? Thank you so much.

oh! i had more to say...but dd is awake from her nap. adios ladies!
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#448 of 647 Old 09-21-2004, 08:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *solsticemama*
Do you get out with other moms and toddlers much? I have to admit that I find it hard when mothering philosophies vary greatly.
I do...at first it was hard because of that differing philosophy, but I'm learning how to deal with that. I don't want to be an evangelist (although I felt like I should at first) so I can only hope that the subtle things I do (like nurse in public and change Owen's cloth diaper in front of other mamas) will either rub off on them or at least spark a curiosity.

Owen and I go to ECFE (early childhood family education) classes at our school. I used to work for them, and actually am now an employee again, working one morning a week. First we went to Baby's Day Out and now we're in Toddler Time. In January we'll be on to Twogether Time. In baby class, I met a mama who I adore. We get along so well and her dd is only 3 weeks older than Owen. I've just converted her to cloth diapers (she had me make a dozen for her a couple weeks ago) and she's reading a few non-vax books I borrowed to her. She said that she doesn't think she will vax her next child.

The kids get along so well and we get along so well that we have a standing playdate every Monday morning. We do one week at my house; the next at hers. I so totally love it. I work on Tues. mornings (I take Owen with me, as I work the sibling care room and basically it's like a playdate and I get paid for it) and we have class on Thursday mornings. We're plenty busy with other kids, but it's only for 2 hours a time so it's not overwhelming.

Today at work, Owen befriended a little boy who will be 3 in January. They played so well together...it was amazing to see my little one being a "big boy". :*) He just seems so big now, especially since we have 4 infants (ranging from 1 month to 6 months) in the sib care room at one time.
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#449 of 647 Old 09-21-2004, 08:23 PM
 
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Welcome Emily!
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#450 of 647 Old 09-21-2004, 08:36 PM
 
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I have a very tight circle of other mothers that I met at a Jewish Child and Family Services moderated new mothers group. (most not jewish they just run the group) We graduated when our children turned a year and about 7 of us continue to meet during that time slot every week at each others homes. I am by far the crunchiest, all the rest vax, there are 2 other cloth diaperers, some sling, all nursed for a year some a few months longer and one (besides me still nursing) some cried it out in depsration. We try to be nonjudgemental share information and just enjoy one anothers company. The kids all love each other and I would leave GA with any of these mothers in a heartbeat if nec. It has been great to see the kids grow up. We also have a monthly mom's night out which is GREAT! I feel like this is my village
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