Leaving my son inside alone for 5 min? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 09-26-2004, 03:47 PM
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I hope she hasn't been scared away. I am fairly new here myself and have found there are some pretty tough characters here! I think some folks are more about competing as to who is more AP than actually being supportive about how to do it. I nearly gave up on MDC but I got so many supportive PMs after doing so that I came back. I hope that she does, too.

We can be honest without sounding holier than thou or judgemental.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMommy
Has anyone noticed the OP has been absent. I just really dislike how often this happens to "new" posters. They ask a question seeking help/advice and then get so much negativity thrown at them that they're scared away. AP is a process not an end product. Sure, you may not agree that smoking is a healthy habit but she wasn't asking about that. Obviously, she knows since she goes outside. There are many more ways to teach than to just jump up and down and criticise. It would be effective to mention it gently, provide links, and invite her to PM you for support.

Hope she comes back!
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Old 09-26-2004, 03:47 PM
 
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Old 09-26-2004, 03:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BusyMommy
Has anyone noticed the OP has been absent. I just really dislike how often this happens to "new" posters. They ask a question seeking help/advice and then get so much negativity thrown at them that they're scared away. AP is a process not an end product. Sure, you may not agree that smoking is a healthy habit but she wasn't asking about that. Obviously, she knows since she goes outside. There are many more ways to teach than to just jump up and down and criticise. It would be effective to mention it gently, provide links, and invite her to PM you for support.

Hope she comes back!
Exactly! This is the same thing I was trying to say in my post. I hope she comes back as well.

Mother of three and strong advocate of being KIND to each other. (No one is going to learn how to be a better mother by your telling her she makes you want to throw up.)
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Old 09-26-2004, 04:14 PM
 
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If you can see and/or hear your child, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever.

I have very long, thick hair. It takes me 15 min. in the shower. I put the babygates up so the kids - 2 and 4 - only have access to the living room and hallway where the bathroom is. I can hear them the whole time. If one cries, I pop my head out and make sure they're okay.

I think some ppl are seriously overreacting. But we all have the right to our opinions, right?
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Old 09-26-2004, 05:49 PM
 
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ITA with Helen White!!!!!!!

Come back, OP.

~lisa~mama to 3 boys (1/02, 5/04, 12/06)
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Old 09-27-2004, 03:27 AM
 
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Old 09-27-2004, 06:55 AM
 
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Yup, the op is in hiding.
Sheesh mamas, spread the love!
How can we expect to influence other mothers to want to investigate this whole ap thing when we emotionally spank them when they ask something that's betrays a "not so perfect" parent?

I think it's perfectly fine to step outside - if you are able to watch your child (as she said she was) - to do whatever for a minute or two. I do lots of things all day - like running to the laundry room to put a load in the dryer and I leave my ds in the kitchen. He'll follow me, but he's not 100% supervised every minute. As for the smoking...I'm not a smoker myself, but I'm guessing she knows it's a bad habit. BUT, you know what? If we try really hard we might be able to really rub her nose in it a little longer.

Sorry original poster. No question is a bad one. I think it's great you took the time to post it here. I liked the advice of another poster here who said to trust your gut. If it feels right then follow that, if it doesn't and you have doubts then find an alternative solution.
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:12 AM
 
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it has a large window where I could look in and I would always be right by the door and open it every couple of minutes to see what he is doing if I can’t see him.
When I read the OP, particularly this part quoted above, I couldn't understand why there was a need to ask to be honest. You can see the child, the child is also old enough to know where you are, and not only that, if they go outside the view of the window, you have another way of watching them.

I cannot see anything 'alone' about this child; it is like going into another room really, only not as bad as you can't see them in another room. And to mention smoking, and not 'put the washing out', or any other reason, I would guess she was having all of us on. Either that or she is 18 years old and really doesn't know.

It doesn't have to be an AP site for someone to know to avoid certain words in association with children if you don't want to get harassed - smoking would be at the top of such a list of words. My friends, I think you have all been had.

With love.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:17 AM
 
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Now for an actual answer to the post, in case you are serious. I think it is fine. As long as you can see the child at all times, and they are secure as to your where-abouts.

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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Old 09-27-2004, 09:42 AM
 
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Calm,

I suppose that’s a possibility but I think I’ll take the chance to support and encourage this new mother to stay here at MDC…it takes as much time to ‘call her out’ as it does to send a friendly word and some advice.

That said, I’ve noticed many, many (what I would call) odd lines that people draw between acceptable parenting practices. Many of them seem totally random and based more on some cultural issue rather than reality. I’m sure that for some people being outside while the children are inside is a line they draw. Perhaps that’s why the question was asked.

Also, perhaps the OP was in fact reaching out for some smoking advice and/or didn’t feel the need to qualify *why* she smokes or give excuses. Maybe she just feels like being real.

Meet people where they’re at…that’s the LLL philosophy, right? I have some advice on limiting smoke exposure to others as well as some other thoughts on smoking as a parent (especially for co-sleeping families). You’re welcome to PM me OP ~ not judgment whatsoever.

Incidentally, I know *lots* of “AP” parents and the single-most outstandingly-fantastic-crunchy-puts everyone I know to shame-realdeal-posterchild AP family is a smoking family. They’ve been open with me about this choice as well as the ways that they limit exposure. I only say this because I can assure you that these things are not mutually exclusive.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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Old 09-27-2004, 10:03 AM
 
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You know what IdCrMama? You are totally right! I posted my second post after feeling a little that way, and just as I was about to edit my first post, I saw yours! So now I'll just leave it there and let it be. My husband has always smoked, so do most of the people I love, so I don't have issue with it (hence why I gave no advice on that bit, she has enough to drown in as it is).

Can I be forgiven if I say I have had really bad PMS for days? I cry at the drop of a hat, and have gone all weird. My poor husband. Anyway, I am off to meditate - read: sulk.

Could I have been more OFF TOPIC? *giggle* *wince*

Hunger is political.  Wherever there is widespread hunger, it is because people with guns are preventing other people from bringing in food.  
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Old 09-27-2004, 10:27 AM
 
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Oh, yea…my PMS is really getting to me this last year! I’ve actually considered putting my cycle on my sig line so everyone gets a heads up, LOL!! Staying really, really busy helps lots for me. Now, if you want to edit (I don’t think it’s necessary) I’ll edit as well. Sending AF vibes you way!

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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Old 09-27-2004, 11:00 AM
 
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no shower curtain or shower door blocking us...yep, the floor was wet,
Okay, I saw this and I'm hoping that you have a carpeted bathroom. You may not have thought about this, but a wet, slick floor could be very dangerous.
If your bathroom is not carpeted, I find it a little ironic that you are condemning the OP for going outside for 5 min. when you put your child at risk for a dangerous fall in the bathroom. We all make mistakes, and again, if you're bathroom's carpeted, this is all for not, but if it isn't, I hope you consider the dangers of doing this.

As for the OP, I doubt that she'd even consider going outside for a smoke if her child would be distressed by her doing so. Some kids are high needs and want to have mama or daddy within eyesight at all times, some do not.
I have to go out to the garage to do laundry, and if I waited until DS was asleep to do this I'd have lots of piles of laundry! :LOL
I do try to wait to do homework until DS is asleep because he doesn't respond well to my reading a book or studying notes while he's around. For some reason, he can handle me stepping in the garage for a few minutes but not the studying. So, I adjust. That's what AP is about, IMHO, following your instinct, knowing your child's limits and needs and respecting that.
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Old 09-27-2004, 04:05 PM
 
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Okay, I'll confess...I snowblow the drive while both kids are plastered to the window watching w/jealousy. I feel safe. No way they'd move from the window b/c then they'd miss out on the vicarious thrill. And, if I didn't blow the drive, we couldn't get in or out.
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Old 09-27-2004, 04:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by andrea

Um.... are you sure you mean this book? Because, wow! You are totally contradicting youself there girl! :
yes, I mean that book. and what I mean is that I agree with everything in the book except that. I don't have to abide by EVERYTHING this or any book says. I pick and choose what suits me and my beliefs and drop the rest.
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Old 09-27-2004, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusyMommy
Has anyone noticed the OP has been absent. I just really dislike how often this happens to "new" posters. They ask a question seeking help/advice and then get so much negativity thrown at them that they're scared away. AP is a process not an end product. Sure, you may not agree that smoking is a healthy habit but she wasn't asking about that. Obviously, she knows since she goes outside. There are many more ways to teach than to just jump up and down and criticise. It would be effective to mention it gently, provide links, and invite her to PM you for support.

Hope she comes back!
Me too. I am really saddened by the negativity and judgementalism shown by some posters here (especially some who are senior members, and apparently represent what MDC Is all about).

However, the number of people who have responded with kindness and wisdom rather than negativity and black-and-white purist attitudes make me feel so much better about this thread. People are still here who want to be positive and support other mamas!
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Old 09-27-2004, 11:58 PM
 
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Old 09-28-2004, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mum2sarah
If some mother said to me, gee, I really need to eat a cheesesteak sandwich and then I'd feel better, I'd probably say, "go ahead if that will cause you to face the world with a smile and be the kind of parent you want to be." I wouldn't sit there and give her a lecture about how she's clogging up her arteries with an uhealthy habit and maybe she might be getting mad cow disease and doesn't she care about being a burden on her kids when she's dying of colon cancer... That's just mean and judgemental and unproductive. Regardless of what *you* consider healthy, let's please take a look at the bigger picture here. There is such a thing as emotional and mental health as well. And until if and when a mom really wants to quit a *physically* unhealthy habit, give her the chance to do the best she can to mantain her sanity and still practice MDC philosophy. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.


I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have had to say, mama. And I think I should get to know you better, you're my kind of woman.

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Old 09-28-2004, 11:13 AM
 
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I hope we can all learn something from this thread.
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Old 09-28-2004, 11:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Raven
I hope we can all learn something from this thread.
I have been watching this thread with much interest since my husband, in spite of trying to quit several times, does smoke outside while watching 14 m/o DD through a sliding glass door. There have been so many wonderful responses, but I think the negativity has overwhelmed this thread. So what might be learned from this thread???? This forum may be an "all or nothing" place wherein only the "all" parents are welcomed with open arms. As a WOHM, APing, BFing, sposie-using, cosleeping mama, this is what I am finding as I meander through MDC. It makes me very sad. Very, very sad.

But such is life, I suppose. I guess it's easier to be outspokenly judgemental in a forum than it is in person.

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Old 09-28-2004, 01:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KirstenMary
So what might be learned from this thread????
I hope that what is learnt is that the approach that has been the norm on this thread does not make a new member feel welcome or respected no matter what the intention of the poster may be.
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Old 09-28-2004, 01:58 PM
 
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Does anyone else see that there is a difference between being judgmental and being honest? When you ask a question you have to be prepared for answers that you don't like as well as those you do. (and although we have to be civil there is no reason we have to sugar coat everything)
That's diversity. I don't think anyone said it was a bad idea for the sole purpose of making her feel like crap. That's how some people honestly feel. There is at least a few things that we all disagree on. There are other things that lots of MDC moms feel strongly for that I am strongly against. They are not trying to run me out of town by having their own and different opinions.

What I'm learning from this thread is that people point the judgment finger at you if you dare to have an opinion that doesn't make them feel good about their decisions.

I can hardly believe that anyone expected the fact that smoking is unhealthy for everyone in that home to be dismissed and ignored. If the OP didn't want our feeling on that also then it would have been wise to leave it out. What's wrong with encouraging someone to better themselves by quitting a bad habit?
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:01 PM
 
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The problem usually arises in the HOW rather than the WHAT.
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
I can hardly believe that anyone expected the fact that smoking is unhealthy for everyone in that home to be dismissed and ignored. If the OP didn't want our feeling on that also then it would have been wise to leave it out. What's wrong with encouraging someone to better themselves by quitting a bad habit?
So she is less of a person because she smokes? She is not as "good" as she could be?

*sigh*

None of that had anything remotely to do with the OP's question.

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Old 09-28-2004, 02:06 PM
 
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RAVEN: You got a point....
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:08 PM
 
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That's too baiting to even answer. You know good and well that I didn't even imply that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KirstenMary
So she is less of a person because she smokes? She is not as "good" as she could be?

*sigh*

None of that had anything remotely to do with the OP's question.
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
Does anyone else see that there is a difference between being judgmental and being honest?
What I'm learning from this thread is that people point the judgment finger at you if you dare to have an opinion that doesn't make them feel good about their decisions.
I can hardly believe that anyone expected the fact that smoking is unhealthy for everyone in that home to be dismissed and ignored. If the OP didn't want our feeling on that also then it would have been wise to leave it out. What's wrong with encouraging someone to better themselves by quitting a bad habit?
YES, there is a big difference between being judgmental and being honest. Most of the "honest" answers I've seen on this thread went along the lines of "EWWW! You need to QUIT!" I would consider these responses judgmental. A person who wanted to address the health issue of smoking could easily have phrased a response more like this: "I know you've probably considered this, but another solution to your problem would be to quit smoking. I know this can be a very difficult thing to do, but it would greatly improve your health and that of your family. If this is something you'd like to do but don't feel able to, I'm sure there are other mamas on this board who've been through the same thing and could give you feedback on what worked for them." Do you see the difference between these two "honest" responses? Maybe if we'd gotten a response like this early on, the OP would have opened up about her struggles to quit smoking, and we would have received a flood of support from moms who have successfully quit smoking rather than a flood of responses telling her that her son would remember her as smelling like a bar as he resentfully reflected on her untimely death.

Mother of three and strong advocate of being KIND to each other. (No one is going to learn how to be a better mother by your telling her she makes you want to throw up.)
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:24 PM
 
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Those type of posts seemed to be the minority anyway. I just ignored the ewww-ish posts. That's not judgmental it's rude.
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Old 09-28-2004, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
Those type of posts seemed to be the minority anyway. I just ignored the ewww-ish posts. That's not judgmental it's rude.
I would argue that they are both judgmental AND rude. And while you may find about equal numbers of supportive vs. judgmental posts in the thread as a whole, if you read the first, say, 10 responses (which may be all the OP stuck around for), you can see it's not exactly the most respectful or supportive group of posts you might find. Sure, not all are as blatant as the one I was referring to. But even the poster who "applauded" the OP for not smoking around her child followed up with "I will give you credit for that," which is kind of condescending IMO. The poster who said she was not going to touch the subject of smoking followed up with the parenthetical jab "(I THINK YOU SHOULD QUIT)." The fact remains that virtually every early response to this thread ignored the OP's original question and slammed her, to some degree or another, on the smoking issue, and virtually no one acknowledged what a difficult thing quitting smoking is to do. This is not only rude and judgmental, it's unhelpful and unproductive.

I really wish people would try a little harder to be "honest" and respectful at the same time. It's not only kinder, it's more effective as well. Really! People won't (and often can't) listen to advice, especially painful, difficult advice, when they feel the person giving it doesn't acknowledge their basic value as a person, respect them for their desires and efforts to be the best person they can, and understand the very real obstacles they face in trying to become that person. To say "you should quit" without acknowledging how hard quitting is makes it sound like the OP is risking her and her family's health on a whim or something. Who would stick around for or listen to advice from people who have that kind of opinion of her?

Mother of three and strong advocate of being KIND to each other. (No one is going to learn how to be a better mother by your telling her she makes you want to throw up.)
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Old 09-28-2004, 03:38 PM
 
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That's too baiting to even answer. You know good and well that I didn't even imply that.
No, I don't. And IMO, my comment wasn't baiting at all, kwim (my implication v. your perception)???? The perception of your words my have been far different from your intention; to me, that was exactly the implication.

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