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Old 04-07-2005, 02:52 PM
 
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Okay, i guess i'm the exception here... i actually find offensive the concept that the Latin terms for our private parts are somehow more "real" or "correct" than the good old Anglo-Saxon ones that have now racistly been consigned to the junkyard of "dirty words".

Many people here have said they use vagina, penis, scrotum etc. "because that's what they are". Well, the only reason they came to be called those things is that it helped to remove the earthiness of the older names. But i want to celebrate the earthiness of our bodies and also celebrate my Anglo-Saxon heritage. I am no member of the medical or cultural elite. If "dirty words" (trans = everyday words of the common people) were good enough for Shakespeare and his crowds, they're good enough for me and my family.

And yes, I also use "collar-bone" for "clavicle" and "kneecap" for "patella" and "skull" for "cranium" and "lips" for "labia", etc. Some people have said they use "nose for nose, elbow for elbow, penis for penis" - uh, but the nose and elbow and every other body part also has a fancy Latin name too. Why are the English names for those acceptable while the ones for our privates aren't? Hmm, it seems to me that maybe it's the people who insist on Latin terms for privates who are actually perpetuating a practise based on shame or distaste. It irritates me to no end when people unthinkingly practice cultural imperialism of language. Grrr! :

I also use the Maori terms, to teach dd some of her New Zealand heritage as well.
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Old 04-07-2005, 03:01 PM
 
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If that's part of your cultural tradition, that's fine. I don't think using commonly accepted words means that we unthinkingly practicing the cultural imperialism of language. The words are in the English dictionary. They have been assimilated into the English language.

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Old 04-07-2005, 03:03 PM
 
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I wanted to add, I don't think it matters what you call it. But if you are calling a penis (what would be the acceptable translation anyway) a wee wee just because you think it's cute or you can't handle hearing the "grown up" word coming out of your little one's mouth, then I think you are perpetuating the myth that genitals are somehow dirty or can't be talked about.

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Old 04-07-2005, 03:25 PM
 
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Annettemarie -- I think whether the Latin terms are "commonly accepted" is up for debate -- many people avoid them because they find them unpleasantly "prissy" and clinical. But anyway, besides that the Latin terms for other body parts are also in the dictionary -- every body part has a "common" or English name as well as a "medical" or Latin one. My point is, why are only the English terms for our privates considered "slang" or unacceptable? They are not slang at all, they are the correct and proper English terms for those body parts. The underlying assumption seems to be that the words themselves are somehow inherently "dirty" (because, in fine Anglo-Saxon tradition, they reflect the earthy quality of the parts they represent) and therefore must be "cleaned up" and technicalized (?) by using only medical Latin terms. This is not done with any other part of the human body. What else can it reflect but a distaste for the organs used in sex and waste removal?
You say it is not cultural imperialism, yet you go on in your next post to make a comment that exactly represents what i'm talking about: you use the words "grown-up" to refer to the medical Latin terms, implying that anything else is somehow childish or immature. How is this not a form of cultural imperialism, or at least elitism?
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Old 04-07-2005, 03:34 PM
 
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I haven't managed to read this whole thread, having come to it late, but I find it interesting how many people say they are using the correct terms. I don't use scientific terms when referring to my own or DH's parts most of the time, unless in a scientific setting. I don't remember NOT knowing what the scientific term was (vagina, penis etc), but I didn't use them in normal conversation, we used regular terms, same way we didn't say clavicle for collar bone or digits for fingers , or spinal column for backbone. That's pretty much the way we're going with DS. He calls it his weewee, cause that's where the wee comes out--came up with that one by himself. I have told him it's called his penis, but I've also called it his willy, which is the word his dad and I and my whole family have always used. I mean, it's got a lot of names, I use which ever one comes along. He's going to learn them all one day anyway. Heck, when he first called it something, he referred to it as his "cat-tail". After all, cats have tails, and it looked like one to him! The actual word doesn't seem that important, to be honest.
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Old 04-07-2005, 03:34 PM
 
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Okay, Annettemarie, i reread your second post and i see i misinterpreted what you were saying -- sorry, i withdraw my last comment!
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Old 04-07-2005, 03:34 PM
 
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What would a common name for penis be?
What do you consider to be acceptable?
My only point is we should look at why we use the words we use. I am guessing that was your point as well, but you are coming off as so confrontational it's hard to tell.

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Old 04-07-2005, 03:57 PM
 
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We haven't had a lot of occasion to call DS's genitals anything yet, as he's only 20 months and not toilet-trained and not too terribly interested in them, but when DP and I need to refer to them we usually say "unit" or "package." I guess I'm not too concerned about what name(s) we will officially adopt -- we'll follow his lead as to everyday usage, while also teaching him that there are many terms for those body parts. If DS wants to call his penis a "pee-pee" I'm not going to correct him; but neither will I insist on a euphemism or nickname. Whatever he uses, I want him (and me, and DP) to be comfortable using that term. I think the important thing -- for us -- is that DS isn't whispering, "Mom, my -- er, um, uh, you know, er, thingy" when he needs to refer to it, kwim?

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Old 04-07-2005, 04:18 PM
 
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we're penis people too. :LOL although ds insists that he has a vagina (like his big sis). so we go along with that too.

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Old 04-07-2005, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alison
I haven't managed to read this whole thread, having come to it late, but I find it interesting how many people say they are using the correct terms. I don't use scientific terms when referring to my own or DH's parts most of the time, unless in a scientific setting. I don't remember NOT knowing what the scientific term was (vagina, penis etc), but I didn't use them in normal conversation, we used regular terms, same way we didn't say clavicle for collar bone or digits for fingers , or spinal column for backbone. That's pretty much the way we're going with DS. He calls it his weewee, cause that's where the wee comes out--came up with that one by himself. I have told him it's called his penis, but I've also called it his willy, which is the word his dad and I and my whole family have always used. I mean, it's got a lot of names, I use which ever one comes along. He's going to learn them all one day anyway. Heck, when he first called it something, he referred to it as his "cat-tail". After all, cats have tails, and it looked like one to him! The actual word doesn't seem that important, to be honest.
I see your point. Even though we do call privates "penis" and "vagina", dd says "pipi" and "poopoo" instead of "urine" and "stool"...
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:26 PM
 
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Yes, except their peepee and poopoo are not generally at risk for sexual assault. A kid who knows their anatomy and is not afraid to say it is intimadating to a predator and less likely to be abused. To help prevent sexual abuse it is recommended to not give kid's genitalia pet names. I don't see any big reason to be so against that. I tend to lean toward being better safe than sorry.

Besides pee and peepee are the same thing to me (same word, just said twice). Same with poopoo and just plain 'ol pooh.

Mamaroni :LOL
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by annettemarie
What would a common name for penis be?
What do you consider to be acceptable?
My only point is we should look at why we use the words we use. I am guessing that was your point as well, but you are coming off as so confrontational it's hard to tell.
The big problem is, in no language on Earth in recorded history are there terms for the privates which are not euphemisms. It seems to be just a natural thing for humans to name their intimate parts after other things. Even in Latin the terms are euphemisms: penis means "tail" and vagina means "sheath". So that is just like English-speaking people calling them tails and sheaths. Which i think one mother mentioned, her son calling it his "tail". No culture has pure, original names for the privates that apply only to them. Because English has gone through so many changes and contains so many dialects there are many common words for the privates. One common English word is "prick", which is often used in Shakespeare's plays and is obviously a word meaning "pointed object". It has equivalents in German, Dutch, French and a host of other languages. There is "cock" meaning something proud and lofty. And "balls" which is also obvious; it likewise has cognates in many languages translating to "balls" or "stones". For females, there is "quim", from a Welsh/Old English word meaning "valley". Or "pussy" meaning something soft, warm and gentle. There are dozens, some of course more acceptable than others.
For many Americans and other english-speaking peoples, these are the terms of our heritage, and they are perfectly proper. Personally i would rather have a "valley" than a "sheath" any day.
I do not mean to be confrontational, i am merely responding to the assertion in many pp that the medical Latin term is superior and more "grown-up" than others, which i think is a little confrontational itself.
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:31 PM
 
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Zipporah, I think you might be missing the point. Whatever *your* most accurate word for genitalia is, *that's* what you should be using. Maybe your loathing for the English language and semantics could be it's own thread? :LOL
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
penis, testicles, scrotum and ofcourse, the part I'm most proud of.. THE FORESKIN!! yep, it's all there and we call it by what it is
When DS points at DS2 I do tell him babys penis looks different because he has a foreskin.
We use Penis,Foreskin,vulva,bum (DS is 18 mos old and I dont think comprehends bun VS anus just yet.) I do call testicals jelly beans : I need to stop that one....
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:38 PM
 
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I did want to say Yoni soundslike such a beautiful word. If I have a daughter I might consider using it. It sounds so special and magical...and well since thats where babies come out of I think it definatly fits lol
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaAllNatural
Zipporah, I think you might be missing the point. Whatever *your* most accurate word for genitalia is, *that's* what you should be using. Maybe your loathing for the English language and semantics could be it's own thread? :LOL


Choose your words based on your family's culture and beliefs, not a desire to be "cute" or a fear of the word.

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Old 04-07-2005, 04:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaAllNatural
Zipporah, I think you might be missing the point. Whatever *your* most accurate word for genitalia is, *that's* what you should be using. Maybe your loathing for the English language and semantics could be it's own thread? :LOL
Uh, no, i think maybe you're missing my point... i am responding specifically to posters who have stated quite clearly that they only consider the Latin terms correct and acceptable. I am objecting to that assertion by pointing out that there are many other terms for the privates that are also correct and proper. That's all. I find it objectionable to basically be told that because i use common English terms instead of medical ones then i am a) endangering my child and b) immature. If some people prefer medical terms, fine. But for those of us who prefer the common terms, that should not be something to ridicule and sneer at.
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:53 PM
 
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Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina. We all have butts.

I have not mentioned the anus or butt hole yet to give it a name :LOL We do call it poo and pee pee since all the other kids he plays with use that terminology.
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:55 PM
 
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I did want to say Yoni soundslike such a beautiful word. If I have a daughter I might consider using it. It sounds so special and magical...and well since thats where babies come out of I think it definatly fits lol
I think that there is a musician named Yanni,-different spelling but same pronounciation. I think? Is yoni pronounced like Tony or yawny? I've never even heard the term yoni!
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by annettemarie
Choose your words based on your family's culture and beliefs, not a desire to be "cute" or a fear of the word.
Exactly!

Zipporah, I really, really think you're missing my point. Truly.

Isadora, I believe Yoni is pronounced "yo - nee" and Yanni is pronounced "Yaw-nee". I agree, yoni is a very nice word.
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:04 PM
 
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Exactly!

Zipporah, I really, really think you're missing my point. Truly.

Isadora, I believe Yoni is pronounced "yo - nee" and Yanni is pronounced "Yaw-nee". I agree, yoni is a very nice word.
I tried to use it the other day when my daughter was having her little lotion episode, but it just didn't feel right. It felt like I was appropriating someone else's word, so we went back to vagina (and clitoris)

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Old 04-07-2005, 05:48 PM
 
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The big problem is, in no language on Earth in recorded history are there terms for the privates which are not euphemisms. It seems to be just a natural thing for humans to name their intimate parts after other things. Even in Latin the terms are euphemisms: penis means "tail" and vagina means "sheath". So that is just like English-speaking people calling them tails and sheaths. Which i think one mother mentioned, her son calling it his "tail". No culture has pure, original names for the privates that apply only to them.
Well, if we're going into etymology, no culture has pure, original names for *anything*, really. Everything means something else. Genitals seem to have more euphemisms than other things (in fact, iirc, "penis" has more euphemisms than any other word in the English language).

Noone is trying to demean your choice by saying that it's dangerous to teach your child a cutesey name for their genitals, they're just stating a fact. It can bother you all you like, but the fact is that pediphiles are turned on when little kids say words like "wee wee" and "pee pee" and more inclined to choose that child as a target than one who says "penis," for a variety of reasons.

FTR, I do refer to my patella and clavicle and digits, as well as my kneecap and collar bone and fingers/toes. I know that I'm strange. I don't think, however, that any purpose will be served by teaching my son that his sister has a twat or that he's got a prick. Sure, everyone will know what he's talking about, but why does that make it any more appropriate than the word penis, which is only part of the Latin, anyway?

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Old 04-07-2005, 06:04 PM
 
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Exactly!



Isadora, I believe Yoni is pronounced "yo - nee" and Yanni is pronounced "Yaw-nee". I agree, yoni is a very nice word.
yo-nee is how I pronounce it. : my mom and step dad always played a yanni (yaw nee) CD when they were getting lucky (how scaring is THAT lol)
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:13 PM
 
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Um...wrong thread.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaAllNatural
There are only 28 days in Feb.
Sometimes there are 29.... :LOL

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Old 04-07-2005, 06:17 PM
 
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: Even funnier that you're on the thread I was responding to Annette. :LOL

Who knows, maybe that post of mine was the answer to everything.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:19 PM
 
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: Even funnier that you're on the thread I was responding to Annette. :LOL

Who knows, maybe that post of mine was the answer to everything.
I thought your point was that some people will argue anything... :LOL

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Old 04-07-2005, 06:21 PM
 
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See, it could be the answer to everything!
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow...I am amazed that this thread of mine has spawned such a debate. Many of you have brought up interesting points that show the true complexity of this issue. I'm sure some people never even give this any thought. But for someone like me, who is very concerned with sexism and other sex related issues in our society (rape, molestation, etc) this is important.

I think that maybe the important thing is the way you talk about genitals rather than the actual words you use. A child doesn't know that maybe you're saying "peepee" because you feel some sort of shame about that part. But a child will pick up on your attitudes about it by the way you say whatever words you use. Just because you call it a penis doesn't mean you're automatically teaching your son to not feel ashamed about his parts.

So, that would be another good discussion I think...how do we teach our children to not feel ashamed of their genitals? Heck, this could spawn a ton of discussions. How do we teach our children to feel good about their gender and sexuality? How do we teach them that those parts come in all different shapes and sizes and that's ok? How do we teach them to respect their bodies and the bodies of others? How do you show them the difference between modesty and shame? The list could go on and on.....
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:12 PM
 
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One thing about (most) Mothering participants- we think things out and don't make decisions lightly!

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