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#1 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 03:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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One of my son's favorite meals is tofu hotdogs. I give it to him a couple meals a week.

I know a lot of people have issues with tofu and I was wondering do any of you have really negative feelings about tofu and kids.
I would like to hear it. Your opinion counts.

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#2 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 03:43 AM
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I don't know what I'd do if tofu turned out to be awful for our dd -- she loves it and it's fast! I'm interested (scared too?) to hear if anyone has strong negative feelings....
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#3 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 01:36 PM
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Just did a google search "Is soy safe for babies" and got this:

http://www.llu.edu/llu/vegetarian/soy2.html
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#4 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 06:00 PM
 
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Ok, this has come up in our sphere as well. There are two camps on the issue. I will post websites for both and let you decide for yourself.
Con:
http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy_alert.html
Pro:
http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm
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#5 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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this is exactly the kind of dialogue I needed to see......thank you so much.... any other stuff will also be appreciated...


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#6 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 06:31 PM
 
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A little tofu served in miso soup or a few cubes served with green vegetables or meat or seafood is fine and I offer them to DD on occasion.

Tofu served in traditional forms = easier to digest. So miso and tempeh are fine, and so is the occasional tofu stir fry with greens or meats.

I do not offer DD soy milk or processed foods with tofu.

See what Susun Weed author of Herbal for the Childbearing year has to say on this: http://www.susunweed.com/Weed_letter...1.htm#surprise
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#7 of 26 Old 02-26-2003, 06:52 PM
 
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Anna easts tofu about 3-4 times a week in small amounts. She loves hot dogs and stir fry.
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#8 of 26 Old 02-28-2003, 02:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Gee.... i don't know.....
Maybe I should cut it back.....

pom...curious what you think....?

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#9 of 26 Old 02-28-2003, 02:16 PM
 
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We eat soy. Prefer the tempeh, miso route.
DD loves tofu. We do not buy the veg dogs, veg burgers b/c I am gluten intolerant.
I have read Susun Weed's response in Sage Woman's mag. Red flags for me. She brought up excellent points.
Going from a meat to veg diet, we noticed that we were still trying to eat a meat diet: soy cheese, gluten bacon, smoked tofu, etc. So we are transiting to a less processed diet. I believe Macro based? Our current hang up is TVP. Dh makes a killer chikn stir fry using tvp chunks. So now we are eating more beans.
DD likes soymilk. I try to give it to her in teas and cereal.
It is all a process from meat to vegetarian.
We want to be as healthy as possible. What we do now, prevents doc visits later.
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#10 of 26 Old 02-28-2003, 10:19 PM
 
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I all know is when I gave my dd some soy milk (thinking she needed more protein in her cracker and bread diet) she got BO under her armpits. I am not kidding, it was the strangest thing. I stopped the soy and a few days later the BO was gone and hasn't come back since. So I really feel that it does have some hormonal effect, but have not done enough research to have a strong opinion otherwise. I let my dd have limited tofu and soy products but not more than a couple times a week. We do a lot of nut butters and dairy.

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#11 of 26 Old 03-01-2003, 02:00 AM
 
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Madyson got the same thing!!!!! She gets a rather "unpleasant odor" about her(not only in her armpits) when she has tofu or any soy products regularly. So I discontinued that and put her on rice milk(she has a dairy allergy) and she gets peanut butter and sesame seeds and whole wheat products daily. But she honestly hates eggs so I can't give them to her. It's just that she is on a completely vegan diet right now due to a combination constipation problems and allergies and picky eating and I am worried that I can't sustain her nutritionally that way well enough. I know people DO raise kids this way healthily(is that a word by the way?) and I am not doubting them. I am just worried about my ability to do it. I think that maybe a vegan toddler is a VERY difficult thing to do. She is starting to not gain weight anymore because she doesn't eat enough food with enough calories in it to sustain her. She is happy and seems healthy enough and takes a multi-vitamin plus flax oil each day but I worry about the long term. And she isn't gaining weight. Anyone with a vegan toddler?
Meg and Madyson 7/23/00

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#12 of 26 Old 03-01-2003, 01:08 PM
 
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digest as well. I know that it is very popular nowadays. I read an excellent post on this from a Mothering mom's DH who argued quite convinciingly to me, that flax is not a traditional food but rather something used in production of rope, clothing, etc.

I'll do a search to see if I can find it.

Here's the thread:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...et+and+article
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#13 of 26 Old 03-01-2003, 05:01 PM
 
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I do know that many people with dairy allergies also have soy allergies.

That said, my daughter, almost 4, LOVES tofu and eats it plain or fried with peanut sauce but won't eat processed soy in hot dogs or other stuff. The plain tofu agrees with her.

My son won't even tolerate soy in his breastmilk- he gets a rash if I eat it. I guess it depends on the genetic make-up of the child.

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#14 of 26 Old 03-03-2003, 01:02 PM
 
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Tessamami, thanks so much for that link!!! I read it through and now I think to myself, Oh crud, what to do? Now I'm not so certain. She is taking it not only to boost her fat intake and balance her omegas(i THOUGHT anyway, hee hee) but also to help with constipation. You obviously seem quite knowledgeable on the subject of vegan diet so could you offer any thoughts on how to deal with this? I give her just whole wheat products(pasta and bread and such) and grind up sesame seeds and add to all her foods but she has to be on a lower carb diet to prevent her from constipating again. She eats mostly fruits and veggies and while they ARE good for you, it's tough to gain weight subsisting on JUST fruits and veggies. Fiber vs. calories, you know? She is dairy allergic plus she refuses to eat eggs in any way, shape, or form. She doesn't respond so well to soy so she is on rice milk. I cook with rice milk(expensive stuff to cook with!) and she drinks it occasionally and I put it over her cereal. Any thoughts?
Rabbity, thank you for the soy allergy idea. She's never gotten a rash but she always does that that unpleasant odor and I have read in a few places how difficult soy is to digest. That and the odor moved me to try rice milk with her and she seems to be tolerating it quite well although the taste does take some getting used to. It's quite watery. I will research into this soy allergy idea. Does make sense!
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#15 of 26 Old 03-03-2003, 02:24 PM
 
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I wouldn't choose a vegan diet for myself. We are happy omnivores who also eat tons of veggies. Some mostly vegetarians I know do eat the occasional bit of seafood. If this is an option for you, it might help to eat certain kinds of fish.

I think the post I linked to above had other links you might want to follow and read. It might be helpful to remember that childhood allergies are sometimes outgrown.

My DD has a varied diet with lots of fruits and veggies. Since she is still nursing and she eats meats, chicken and fish, mostly I don't worry much.

As for gaining weight on just fruits and veggies; I don't know why one couldn't. I don't know your reasons for a vegan diet but you might consider easing up a bit and give your child some chicken or fish if only until she can eat a more varied diet including eggs, milk, etc. I'm sure that there are others on this board who are more qualified to offer vegan advice. Good luck to you, it sounds like you are asking good questions and are finding answers for yourself.

Some vegan foods for calorie punch that I know about: avocado, olive oil, nut butters (avoid peanut and avoid all nut butters if allergies are a problem)

I understand that some vegans choose their lifestyle because of deeply held religious or philosophical beliefs and that adding meat, milk or eggs is not an option for them. It seems to me that it is very hard to meet dietary needs with such a strict diet. Some claim that it is not impossible. I think you will find your community here, as I have seen quite a few vegans on these boards.
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#16 of 26 Old 03-03-2003, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay.
so I was reading the postings to my husband who reminded me..... our son too has had BO!! I don't know why I never connected it before...but for the last couple of weeks every now and then my husband would say, "Jack smelll, like he has BO". I would say, "that's impossible, he's a toddler." Well, now after reading all the above.....
those times he smelled may have connected with tofu dog meals.

Yeesh.

I'm switching to turkey dogs for awhile.

wow....

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#17 of 26 Old 03-03-2003, 05:54 PM
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Hey there - I haven't read through all the links yet, but the problem seems to be with PROCESSED soy foods, right (and with soy allergies)...?

DD has very little soy milk -- only if she steals some of dh's cereal...and we don't do the soy dogs etc as I am wary of processed foods in any form...she eats plain tofu and miso...does not like tempeh.

She eats a ton of dairy though although not milk - just cheese and yogurt (and that freaks me out as well, but whatcha gonna do?)

I still got to read the links, Trabot.

I have not noticed any BO yet....!
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#18 of 26 Old 03-03-2003, 08:17 PM
 
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I never studied chemistry, but as I understand it, food combining is a part of avoiding the "dangers of soy". Tofu eaten in traditional ways like with greens, seaweed, meats or seafood is preferable. As is tofu with miso (fermented soy). Meats and greens help the body to process soy as a food. Eaten on its own, soy interferes with digestion and conversion of food into usable bits.

So I'm not avoiding soy entirely; just combining tofu in miso soup, tofu with meat and/or greens, etc. Soy milk is out and I really miss my choc. soy milk SIGH

Now I have organic choc. milk, rice dream, real organic ice cream, rice dream, etc. and skip the processed soy.
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#19 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 12:03 PM
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when I read this thread yesterday I found it troubling. Yet another thing to be afraid of giving my baby. We are vegetarian and she relies on soy based food three times per week for some of her protein intake. Her organic formula also has soybean oil in it. So I emailed the organic formula company and called our pediatrician. He happens to be the non-vax holistic pediatrician who is not afraid to ban things that are not good for babies. He said soy is fine, it does not stunt growth, it does not inhibit digestion and to feed her everything in moderation.

I could get into what meat has in it, including turkey dogs, that is definitely carcinogenic and toxic to all of us, but that's another subject probably,

Here too is what the organic formula company had to say about the "anti-soy hype". Enjoy:

Hello:

To clarify, the dairy based formula does contain soybean oil. However, that
is just a source for the essential fatty acids, not the soy protein. The
various hormones found in soy are isolated to the protein portion, not the
fatty acids. Baby's Only Organic(r) Dairy does not contain soy protein.

Of course, Nature's One does offer a non-dairy soy-based formula in addition
to the dairy-based formula. The soy-based formula does contain soy protein.
However, you may be interested to learn that the anti-soy hype being spread
through the Internet is mostly baseless mock-science that draws ridiculous
conclusions from animal studies. These studies have no human inference.
Unfortunately, there are many motivated individuals and organizations with
an economical interest in spreading deception about soy and its effects on
infants. Nature's One has looked into all of the mock-science that reports
these fabricated conclusions. Below is our response to all of the anti-soy
hype that is being spread by what many natural food leaders suppose is
sponsored through the dairy industry.

The groups that aggressively promote anti-soy sentiment are NOT basing their
opinions on clinical research, but anecdotal observations. None of their
research has been duplicated in supporting studies nor attempted because it
was determined early on that the observations where unfounded. In addition
to this, the anecdotal evidence that Nature's One has reviewed is decades
old and based on conjecture or beliefs of what a "scientist" believes to be
factual. More disturbing is that very little of the research is even
footnoted so the full reference can be reviewed. Again, most of it is just
negative spin.

Unfortunately, the Internet gives these groups the ability to propagate
their message un-hindered by reasonable scientific analysis.

Here are some facts to consider:

1. A review of the literature by Karen Kline, a pediatric endocrinologist
that found no reports of hormonal effects resulting from infants consuming
soy formulas ( Isoflavones, soy-based infant formulas, and relevance to
endocrine function. 1998. Nutrition Rev 46:193-204).

2. A clinical study demonstrating normal growth of infants fed soy formulas
for the first year of life. (Lasekan et al, Growth of newborn, term infants
fed soy formulas for 1 year. 1999;38:563-571) and an abstract of the same
study demonstrating normal immune function and response to routine childhood
vaccinations during the first year of life (Ostrom et al, Immune function
and morbidity of term infants fed soy formulas. 1998;J Pediatr Gastroenterol
Nutr 26:594)

3. A study published in the August, 2001 issue of the Journal of the
American Medical Association of several hundred young adults who had
received either soy- or milk-based formulas as infants. This study,
partially supported by the National Institutes of Health, found no
scientific evidence of hormonal or other negative effects in these adults.
When asked about their general health and development, no statistically
significant differences were found between the two formula groups, in
either females or males, for many variables including anthropometrics,
indices of precocity , and a large number of other nonreproductive and
reproductive outcomes, including cancer and infertility. The findings of
this study are very reassuring about the safety of soy infant formulas.

4. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends the use of soy formulas
when an alternative to cow milk formula is desired. Soy infant formulas
remain an important and safe feeding option for formula-fed infants
(American Academy of Pediatrics Committee on Nutrition, Soy protein-based
formulas: recommendations for use in infant feeding, Pediatrics
1998;101:148-153)

5. A study supporting feeding a soy formula as a post-diarrheal feeding by
Allen et al. Cow's milk versus soy-based formula in milk and moderate
diarrhea: a randomized, controlled trial. Acta Paediatr 1994;83:183-187.

6. Soy protein formulas have been fed for decades to millions of babies
throughout the world. There are many healthy, intelligent adults alive today
that where exclusively soy formula fed. Asian and Hispanic groups, known to
have high incidents of lactose intolerance, are heavy users of soy infant
formulas; Asians are heavy users of whole soybean foods. Asian and Hispanic
groups make-up a large percentage of the total world population. If soy
infant formulas created a health disaster, it would be well documented and
studied.

7. Soy infant formulas have undergone extensive infant biochemistry testing,
conducted under medically supervised studies. These studies rely on actual
blood plasma tests from infant participants. This is a critical step that
has never been performed by any of the scientist referred to by the anti-soy
groups. Of course, this is no surprise since it will not support their
conclusions.

8. Breast milk values of all nutrients, as reported, are based on average
tested values of breast milk from a sampling of US mothers in various
regions in 1972. It would be interesting to see how much manganese is found
in breast milk from mothers living in Asia, where soy is a regularly
consumed.

9. Humans only can absorb about 25- 35% of the dietary manganese. Therefore,
it is poorly absorbed through foods. As you know, breast milk is
specifically designed for humans and all of the nutrients are highly
bio-available.

10. If a baby is milk lactose or milk protein sensitive, soy-protein is the
only vegetable protein known to support human life. Even with all its
benefits, soy protein is still deficient of two critical amino acids. Infant
formulas and Baby's Only Organic(r) SOY add those amino acids to correct for
the deficiency.

12. Phytic acid found in plant proteins (not milk) is known to block the
absorption of some minerals. This is especially true of zinc, iron and
possibly copper & manganese. Therefore, more of these nutrients are needed
to insure that a minimum amount is actually being absorbed. Almost all of
the phytic acid is naturally removed during pasteurization of infant
formulas; however some does remain.

13. Baby's Only Organic uses whole organic soybean concentrate. Other
formulas use soy protein isolates which chemically removes all the naturally
occurring components of the soybean except the protein, manganese and
phytoestrogens. Baby's Only Organic(r) SOY retains many of the natural
benefits of the whole soybean milk as nature intended. We believe this
provides balance among all the vitamins/minerals naturally found in our SOY
formula.


Check out these website for more information:
http://www.soybean.com/assault1.htm ,
http://www.extension.uiuc.edu/archiv...998a/0710.html
http://www.aap.org/policy/re9806.html (American Academy of Pediatrics)

I realize that this is a lot of information; I hope that it is helpful.
Please reply to this email if you have additional questions.

Nature's One, Inc.
Web site: www.naturesone.com
Info Email: info@naturesone.com
Dietitian Email: dietitian@naturesone.com
Phone:614-898-9758
FAX:614-901-2553
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#20 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks oatmeal.

I too have concerns also about turkey dogs...even good ones from whole foods... I know, nitrites, nitrites, nitrites.

Maybe I'll write to Smart Dogs (Tofu) and get some info from them too.

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#21 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 02:44 PM
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Hi Trabot!

I'm just off to dig up a package insert for the hib shot...

I have a pack of smart dogs right here. DD gets one dog maybe at one meal 3 days during the week. She eats about half of it and throws the other half on the floor.

the ingredients are as follows, and the label says expressly, no nitrates or MSG:

Water, soy protein isolate, wheat gluten, evaporated cane juice, salt, yeast extract, soy sauce, granulated garlic, carrageenan, spice extract, natural flavors from vegetable sources, vegetable gum, natural smoke flavor, potassium chloride, tomato pulp.

I wonder if they have GMOs in there.

For some reason I thught these were orgnaic but they are not. My bad. They have organic pups at Whole Foods, I should pick those up instead next time...
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#22 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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yeah, I know the smart dogs don't have nitrites....but I would like to see what they have to say about the Soy stuff....if they have any data.....

If jack didn't smell so many times....I wouldn't be as concerned about soy as I now am....I must say that was disconcerting......

thanks for info....

tracy

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#23 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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by the way, oatmeal. I PM you about ten days ago... I don't think you picked that one up...

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#24 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 05:37 PM
 
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I've been wondering about some of these same questions and noticed that this month's Vegetarian Times has an article that looks at the data on soy and says that it's safe. It might be something that some of you want to check out. I'm not sure how credible they are as almost all of their menus have soy in them. They're obsessed with it.

I think that moderation is key and eating it in its whole foods form as much as possible (not soy product isolate). So, I just try to balance it out. DS loves sauteed tofu, so I never give him soy milk, just rice milk. I'd be even happier if he ate the fermented versions (like miso and tempeh), but he's not quite there yet. And I think the person who recommended food combining is right on target.

What freaks me out is how they add soy to everything now. I have to search for ever to find a snack bar that doesn't have soy (all goode bars). It's just a food people, not a SUPER food. It's even making me start thinking about adding some meat to our diet after 15 years as a vegetarian (but don't tell dh, he'd )

Tough decision, I know

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#25 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 05:43 PM
 
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With the soy hot dogs, many have soy protein isolate. This is supposed to be more hypoallergenic, but for some folks (like me)- it is worse. I can eat plain old tofu or tempeh but if I eat any soy protein isolate I get sick.

Another thing about soy dogs is many contain gluten, which is a big allergy, especially in people of northern european descent.

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#26 of 26 Old 03-04-2003, 05:51 PM
 
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Dr. Weill also urges parents not to stress out about soy formulas. He also talks about moderation of soy in the diet, etc. But he does think that one can overdo soy.

My former ped (taking a leave, now) non-vax, holistic, was really anti-soy. So Dr.s (even holistic ones) are divided on this issue.

There are some great non-soy, vegetarian, protein sources like beans, milk, eggs and cheese and many more I am sure. I've met lots of vegetarians who say that we tend to overstimate the amount of protein that we need. I agree.

I understand that convenience foods save time but soy "meat" analogs can also contain a good amount of sodium, sugars and fillers - and tons of those things can't be good for kids, right?

I give my kid tofu, tempeh and miso and I'm not about to stop but I do think one can overdo it.

I don't think you'll find anyone who says that the occasional soy burger, hot dog, etc. is a bad thing. Don't panic anyone, but I still think a whole foods diet made up of real foods, for vegetarian and omnivore alike, is a good idea.

Respectfully,
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